FTL Travel

[Iceeat]

Another thing we need to remember is the shape of the universe and whats its made of. We dont actually know the shape of the universe here, in fact from what we can speculate the universe is expanding still but will eventually tear apart. Why is this important?

We understand the universe we know is a 3D plane. At least, what we perceive is 3D, but we cant argue that this doesn't extend into 4D or 2D and beyond. That shape could vastly alter how we perceive this travel. We also have yet to disprove that their aren't mini universes within our own, heck we dont even know what happens when a star enters a black hole. Their is so much yet accounted for.

Time itself is based in quantum space. Imagine that. We may be able to literally discover a particle or universal structure that determines time. Were we to understand this then perhaps we can find an equation, a pathway, around time in travel at light speed, or even understand how to build a stable wormhole. The possibilities are endless.

 

[Kazma]

i will add my point of view and few other things :3


First : FTL or not FTL


We currently haven't discovered any particule that goes faster than light , ( which goes to 2.99*10^8m.s-1 which is 299 792 458 meter / second exactly ) .and that's really really REALLY fast .
but we discover some particule ( like the Higgs Boson ) which is slightly slower than the light . But nothing discover for somethings faster .
But some theory agree that it's possible to have some particule faster than light , and the thing that travelling at such speed , our body is not really supposed to be able to handle that , but even if we can , we would travel in the futur , due to the Relativity of Einstein , a rocket with a clock travelling at 60% of light speed compare the time with the clock on earth , the earth count like 12 years and the rocket will count like 5 , ( the proportion of time are wrong , but the idea is here ) and the thing is that the nearest you're from the light speed and the longer time will expend for others.


So , if we apply those Physic stuff to the conquest of space , let's imagine we have SuperSpaceship ,and we want to go to conquest the near start , the first one we can reach is Proxima Centaurus Which is 16 Light Years away ( so we will take 16 years at light speed to reach this star ) , during this 16 years in our spaceship at light speed , it would be like thousands and thousands of years for the people on earth ~ so when you arrive , all the staff which you were supposed to communicate with is dead since a LONG LONG LONG time so , not super for a space conquest ~






that it for the FTL story , now for the conquest of near space ( my point of view ) :


actually we discovered a way to travel faster ( with some special reactor: wiki link at the end ) , we can travel to mars quickly ( before , it took like between 6 and 8 month , but now it would be 39 days ) so , it's easier , but the problem would be the cosmic ray during the travel , it's a health danger , and the actual spacecraft don't stop all those rays ...
the other point is that , if we reach Mars , we won't have currently enough resources to stay , so we have to bring food and air and water , but the price to launch just one mission is gigantic , so regulary launch some spaceship to send food will ruin the earth economy and the won't last long ... so it's not possible for now but maybe soon ( like 50 years )




link of reactor : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket

i'm not a Scientist or Physician so it might have some wrong information in my post and i'm sorry about that , tell me which in order to learn from my error

 

[Rassah]

I think our first step will be private companies colonizing our local solar system to mine resources. Going to Mars is nice, but there's not much use for that now, since robots can do all the exploring humans can. On the other hand, having ships that just sit weightlessly in space, drifting between asteroids, and collecting resources like metals, minerals, and water, would be quite profitable and useful both for us down here on earth, and for whatever other space stations we have in orbit. It's supposedly much much cheaper to have a ship drift out of orbit to an asteroid, collect water, and return to orbit to restock one of our space stations with that water, than it is to launch that water from earth. Plus water + electricity from solar panel = rocket fuel, so we can refuel in space.

 

[Gryphoneer]

I think our first step will be private companies colonizing our local solar system to mine resources.

Of course you would say something like that.

Like back when big corporations and visionary libertarians came together and decided to put Armstrong on the moon! OH WAIT

 

[Fallowfox]

Of course you would say something like that.

Like back when big corporations and visionary libertarians came together and decided to put Armstrong on the moon! OH WAIT

Rassah's comment is still pretty much hitting the nail on the head. It would be exciting to see space become accessible to private individuals, rather than just nation states.

He's right that some types of asteroid contain high concentrations of precious metals that are relatively inaccessible on earth, and so on.

 

[Argonne]

They said the same stupid close minded shit about the speed of sound.. If we want to go faster than light we'll eventually figure it out.. There seems to be little difference between 60 mph and 61 don't you think? And as it sits right now there's no solid evidence of what happens or what doesn't happen when you go faster than light.. It's a suggestions and speculation not solid evidence

 

[Fallowfox]

They said the same stupid close minded shit about the speed of sound.. If we want to go faster than light we'll eventually figure it out.. There seems to be little difference between 60 mph and 61 don't you think? And as it sits right now there's no solid evidence of what happens or what doesn't happen when you go faster than light.. It's a suggestions and speculation not solid evidence

There is a much better reason to believe that the speed of light is fundamental, that it is a 'universal speed limit'.

When masses begin to approach light speed, instead of getting faster and faster they get more and more massive. The extra energy input is turned into mass, rather than increasing the velocity as much as you'd expect.

 

[Argonne]

There is a much better reason to believe that the speed of light is fundamental, that it is a 'universal speed limit'.

When masses begin to approach light speed, instead of getting faster and faster they get more and more massive. The extra energy input is turned into mass, rather than increasing the velocity as much as you'd expect.

Is this a theoretical or do we have actual proof of this? Honest question not trying to be a douchebag I read a lot about ww2 aircraft when I was younger we broke the sound barrier a few times back then , but a lot of people said you'd hit a wall and explode. And even if the energy turns to mass it still doesn't fully stop us from going faster

 

[Sylox]

Is this a theoretical or do we have actual proof of this? Honest question not trying to be a douchebag I read a lot about ww2 aircraft when I was younger we broke the sound barrier a few times back then , but a lot of people said you'd hit a wall and explode. And even if the energy turns to mass it still doesn't fully stop us from going faster

Well lets see we observe nothing with mass exceeding the speed of light and you must remember, in order to go faster you must have energy and as you approach c the energy required increases to the point where it becomes infinite if you want go the speed of light. This isn't a theory; its been tested and confirmed in nature. Besides, I have a sneaking suspicion if FTL travel is possible, we would've been visited by an alien race by now, but we haven't, so that either means we're alone, FTL travel is impossible or there is some other reason why we haven't been contacted...but this is a discussion for a different day.

 

[Astrium]

There is a much better reason to believe that the speed of light is fundamental, that it is a 'universal speed limit'.

When masses begin to approach light speed, instead of getting faster and faster they get more and more massive. The extra energy input is turned into mass, rather than increasing the velocity as much as you'd expect.

So then we have to figure out a way to prevent the extra energy from being converted into mass and make it continue to increase the velocity instead?

 

[Sylox]

So then we have to figure out a way to prevent the extra energy from being converted into mass and make it continue to increase the velocity instead?

Good luck with that...

 

[Fallowfox]

Is this a theoretical or do we have actual proof of this? Honest question not trying to be a douchebag I read a lot about ww2 aircraft when I was younger we broke the sound barrier a few times back then , but a lot of people said you'd hit a wall and explode. And even if the energy turns to mass it still doesn't fully stop us from going faster

If you accelerated an object close to light speed it would become so massive that, in order to accelerate it to light speed, you would require infinite force.

This is because of the Gamma factor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_factor

gamma = 1/root(1-vv/cc)
where v=velocity relative to observer
and c= light speed

Gamma= dt/dT =dz/dZ=dm/dM or 'change in flow of time, change in relative length, change in relative mass'.

hence if v=c, gamma=1/ root(1-1) = 1/root(0) =1/0...which is impossible. As V tends towards C and gamma tends towards infinity, the traveling object becomes infinitely flat in its direction of travel, relative to outside observers, time passes infinitely slower for the traveling object [time stops] relative to outside observers, and the object becomes infinitely massive relative to outside observers, therefore takes infinite force to accelerate.

From the traveling object's perspective the universe becomes zero metres across, unchanging, and infinitely massive.
That's what the universe looks like from a photon's perspective; the whole cosmos is 0 metres across and nothing ever changes.

So then we have to figure out a way to prevent the extra energy from being converted into mass and make it continue to increase the velocity instead?

We may as well get a wizard to accelerate our spaceship.

It *might* be possible to travel through the cosmos at what appears to be faster than light speeds, by warping space-time around the traveling ship, or by tunneling through space-time and popping up somewhere else.

You certainly can't travel across space-time at faster than light speeds.

 

[Argonne]

Like I said this still a lot of speculation it's probably just a break over point like the speed of sound or you reach a speed where matter doesn't exist and you can go as fast as you want

 

[Rassah]

Of course you would say something like that.

Like back when big corporations and visionary libertarians came together and decided to put Armstrong on the moon! OH WAIT

Yeah, you're right. And then for the next 60 years we have traveled back and forth to the moon, set up moon colonies, and expanded our life in space. OH WAIT!

 

[Sylox]

Argonne...its not as easy as "well if we we do X we'll surpass it...", this is a real thing that for now cannot be overcome with our modern technology and there is certainly no speed where matter does not exist.

Yeah, you're right. And then for the next 60 years we have travveled back and forth to the moon, set up moon colonies, and expanded our life in space. OH WAIT!

There is a reason for that you know, but to expect the private sector to have done any better is a bit far fetched, hence why we need a public-private partnership if space colonization is to become a real thing in the next 100 years.

 

[Argonne]

So I just googled it the fastest we've gone is 186,000 mph not even close. as it stands it's still speculation. People said humans can't fly....people said humans can't swim....they can't build anything over 10 stories.. We can't go over 15 mph...all based on fear and speculation if you don't think you can change matter into energy then wtf is a nuclear warhead????

 

[Rassah]

hence if v=c, gamma=1/ root(1-1) = 1/root(0) =1/0...which is impossible. As V tends towards C and gamma tends towards infinity, the traveling object becomes infinitely flat in its direction of travel, relative to outside observers, time passes infinitely slower for the traveling object [time stops] relative to outside observers, and the object becomes infinitely massive relative to outside observers, therefore takes infinite force to accelerate.

From the traveling object's perspective the universe becomes zero metres across, unchanging, and infinitely massive.
That's what the universe looks like from a photon's perspective; the whole cosmos is 0 metres across and nothing ever changes.

Sounds like being able to digitize out mind and travel as actual light by transmitting that data to other artificial bodies may be our best near term bet. Only problem is that by the time we actually ship those bodies to wherever we want them to go, their technology will be horribly obsolete...

Like I said this still a lot of speculation it's probably just a break over point like the speed of sound or you reach a speed where matter doesn't exist and you can go as fast as you want

We actually already have experiments showing that increasing speed decreases passage of time and increases mass (we have to account for these things in the technologies we use already, like GPS), and those experiments fit with our theoretical calculations perfectly. So there is no reason to believe that those calculations would change at some point higher on the scale.

 

[Fallowfox]

Like I said this still a lot of speculation it's probably just a break over point like the speed of sound or you reach a speed where matter doesn't exist and you can go as fast as you want

No it's not.

Relativistic physics is essential to the GPS network, Nuclear reactors and our understanding of how stars work.

The speed of light is an absolute, which emerges from Maxwell's wave equation: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/emwv.html#c1

At the time Maxwell didn't know that light was an electromagnetic wave, so the speed of light popping out of these equations, and being a ratio of two constants, was really weird, and revealed that light was a manifestation of electrical and magnetic fields.

So I just googled it the fastest we've gone is 186,000 mph not even close. as it stands it's still speculation. People said humans can't fly....people said humans can't swim....they can't build anything over 10 stories.. We can't go over 15 mph...all based on fear and speculation if you don't think you can change matter into energy then wtf is a nuclear warhead????

Of course matter and energy are interchangeable. This is what I'm trying to explain; when you approach light speed the energy that is being used to accelerate your craft is turned into mass, otherwise the universe's laws would be inconsistent.

 

[Sylox]

Voyage 1 is the fastest man made object. It's currently traveling through interstellar space at a paltry 38,610 mph or 11 mi/s. For comparison, the Speed of Light is 670,616,629 mph or 186,000 mi/s.

Argonne...I don't know what I can tell you to make you understand that its possible this is a limit we cannot overcome.

 

[Rassah]

Yeah, you're right. And then for the next 60 years we have traveled back and forth to the moon, set up moon colonies, and expanded our life in space. OH WAIT!

There is a reason for that you know, but to expect the private sector to have done any better is a bit far fetched, hence why we need a public-private partnership if space colonization is to become a real thing in the next 100 years.

Compare the technological progress of SpaceX over the last 10 years, with the technological progress of NASA for the last 80. Private sector always moves faster with tech. Best example, compare Internet/Arpanet for the 20 to 40 years while it was government owned, to the internet of the last 20 years when it went private because government thought it was a useless thing that will never go anywhere and gave it to the public.

 

[Astrium]

You certainly can't travel across space-time at faster than light speeds.

Aside from the "more speed, more mass" glitch in the universe (which I personally believe we'll figure out a way to circumvent, although I am in no way a quantum physicist), what's stopping us?

 

[Sylox]

Rassah, faster is not always better and as you and I both know, the private sector is about making money and will do anything to do that even if it means cutting corners, something you don't' want to do when it comes to space exploration.

Aside from the "more speed, more mass" glitch in the universe (which I personally believe we'll figure out a way to circumvent, although I am in no way a quantum physicist), what's stopping us?

Where are you getting the energy from to fuel your spacecraft?

 

[Rassah]

fyi http://www.ridingwithrobots.org/2011/09/whats-the-fastest-machine-ever-built/

Rassah, faster is not always better and as you and I both know, the private sector is about making money and will do anything to do that even if it means cutting corners, something you don't' want to do when it comes to space exploration.

Of course faster progress is better. The faster we learn from mistakes, the faster we know how to fix them too. I honestly can't think of any technology that benefited from advancing slower, even with risks that people took to make the faster ones happen.

 

[Fallowfox]

Aside from the "more speed, more mass" glitch in the universe (which I personally believe we'll figure out a way to circumvent, although I am in no way a quantum physicist), what's stopping us?

It's not a glitch. It's just the way the Universe works. We don't usually notice these laws because we rarely travel at very high speeds.

 

[Rassah]

That speed is mass glitch is actually more of a fundamental function of where stuff in our universe comes from. Everything is basically a relation of speed, mass, and time. You can't change one without messing up the other, because those are the fundamental components we are made of. You would have to literally remove parts of yourself to move faster, but then what's the point, since you won't be the one moving any more?