"Furaffinity will not be up tonight (that is, Monday)" discussion

[S.G.]

Those rushing to FA's defense here or saying that the administration doesn't get anything in exchange for their work really need to take a step back and look at what's taken place over the last month. The FurAffinity staff raised over $16,000 from the community in a matter of weeks, at a rate of a little under a dollar every two minutes. Why couldn't some of that money have been put towards doing some real development for the site -- not this hobby stuff, but actually paying somebody to work on it, even for a short time? All the expensive hardware in the world can only do so much to prop up a codebase as messy as FA's. Instead of treating the symptoms, as everybody's seemed content to do up to this point, why not take a moment to consider the root cause?

That's a load of garbage. Everyone who donated money to support FA's return knew exactly what FA was and have had PLENTY of opportunity to discuss with the admins here as to what they'd like to see from the "new" FA. Besides, it's easy to point fingers and criticize. Tell you what. You think they should have paid someone to do the work? Why not do some research, make some calls, and figure out what an "estimated cost" would be for what you'd like to see FA become...

Every day that FA remains down -- especially after a lengthy hiatus like this -- is another day that artists, many of whom may actually depend on the site to do their commissions, can't give their clients an update, can't solicit more work, etc. It may seem silly to those of you trying to get on the administration's good side, but yes, there are actually people out there who derive some portion of their livelihood from the site's operation. These artists bring users, traffic... and ad revenue. Stop taking them and the rest of your userbase for granted by making promises you can't (or won't) keep.

If you're an artist, and you're suffering this severely from FA being down, then you need to reevaluate your marketing strategies. If you're a freelance artist, and you're expecting to make a living by selling your art/services on a single FREE website, you're nothing short of a fool. If exposure is what you're looking for (it should be, if you're trying to make it as a freelance artist), then you need to broaden your horizons. You need to be selling yourself on other sites like Furbid, Yiffstar, FAP, VCL, etc., etc.

Hell, if your primary concern is the artists, why not do them all a favor and start your own site which spotlights and exposes many furry artists. You could call it, "Furry Artists Guild"...or "FAG" for short! (haha)

Seriously, though, I hardly think that should be a complaint of any artist, because if they were good enough (either in skill or personal relations with their fanbase), (A) their fans would know how to contact them OUTSIDE of FA (AIM, Y!IM, ICQ, e-mail, etc.,etc.), and (B) previous commissioners would be coming back to commission them again. In fact, I would think, for some artists, this could be a serendipitous occurrence, since the fandom is without easily accessable art through FA...how else to satiate their hunger for furry art than to commission their favorite artist?

And as for trying to get on anyone's good side, I find your comment laughable. I can't speak for everyone here, but I'm simply tired of checking for updates and seeing people cry about it, like they're these unfortunate victims of Dragoneer's and Yak's sadistic cruelty towards the art-starved fandom. Come on, I love FA, but there's more to life than sitting on here and waiting for a website to come back online. Whining about it does NOTHING to speed up the process, nor does bitching about FA's shortcomings make you look anything more than a jackass.

 

[Suntiger]

Oh, a thought occurred to me.
Is there a way to get some hard numbers on how many artworks that does get posted on FA during the first, say, 24 hours.

It would be interesting to see how much of a flood there actually is.


Edit: Dear gods this thread moves fast!

 

[EddyOkapi]

I think you're all saying the same things... -.-

The whole thread is like that; one page of "It should be back when a deadline is set! We donated money!" and after, a page of "No, it should be back when it can, stop whining!". Typicla internet debate that nobody really reads what each other says nor each other's background/experiences in their claims.

But yah, it's frustrating the site has been down for so long but like it already been said, what's the problem with a few more days after so long? It's not like they said it's gonna take a whole another month... well I hope.

 

[Mr. Someone]

We're prepared. We've got 25mm turrets set up on the east and west wings of the site, ready to take out question takers... err, take their questions.

Is it me, or are the admins turning evil?

 

[GeckoGurl]

Yes, I'm pulling from way back in the thread. You people are posting faster than I can read.


That money is all but gone by now. The new hardware used up around two-thirds of it, and the hardware wasn't the only expense.


Not all of it, no, but most of it. Just look at the posted expense reports. These servers aren't cheap.

I read the reports and I only see what adds up to about $10,000? Could you guys please post a new report that shows ALL of the expenses so we can all be updated please.
Thanks.

 

[DarkTalbain64]

Ah alright, thanks for the updates Dave and 'Neer. Rest up Yak, you deserve it.

 

[Arbiter]

Is it me, or are the admins turning evil?

the dark side has free cookies XD

 

[bunnies_are_emo]

Oh, a thought occurred to me.
Is there a way to get some hard numbers on how many artworks that does get posted on FA during the first, say, 24 hours.

It would be interesting to see how much of a flood there actually is.


Edit: Dear gods this thread moves fast!

I wouldn't know how to find that out, but I can't wait to go through my inbox when it comes back online :3

 

[Rufferstuff]

Is it me, or are the admins turning evil?

No. The admins were always evil. You've just noticed.

 

[Dessy]

The whole thread is like that; one page of "It should be back when a deadline is set! We donated money!" and after, a page of "No, it should be back when it can, stop whining!". Typicla internet debate that nobody really reads what each other says nor each other's background/experiences in their claims.

But yah, it's frustrating the site has been down for so long but like it already been said, what's the problem with a few more days after so long? It's not like they said it's gonna take a whole another month... well I hope.

Hey, I'm not complaining. I never even go on this site at all... ^^;;;
I'm not even a furry--unless you ask my friend, who insists that I am...
Either way, they shouldn't bring up the money. If I had any reason to, I'd donate ten grand and feel no loss... Money just keeps getting cheaper...

 

[Athais]

I really like how people are now sending me hateful messages on YIM. Really nice :3.

 

[darkwraith]

Thanks very much for the update! (See everyone? They announced it shortly after I let one of them go!) LOL

 

[Dessy]

the dark side has free cookies XD

Yeah, I baked them all...

 

[Lemon_Panda]

All of the moaning, groaning, and bitching is making me laugh.
Jeez, it's a website. If anything, I feel bad for yak for pulling that 48 hours coding and probably almost nothing else (aside from normal human needs) .

 

[ChazFox]

Well, either way of this, I know what it's like to have no sleep, and Yak and the others on the FA team deserve the rest.

It's amazing to see the chaos that erupts when somebody needs sleep. XD

 

[flir]

Ok, now that my account is finally up (seriously, signed up when it was page 10, and in the time it took to get the activation email you people piled up 5 PAGES of stuff... amazing), I can finally react to this pile of crap.

To those who say "16,000 is a lot, go hire someone!", consider this: Being a trained consultant isn't a minimum wage job, at least not if you want someone who actually knows their stuff. They are EXPENSIVE... the total for a good consultant could easily EXCEED $16,000. Combine that with server costs, and the admins could very well not have the funds to afford a consultant or professional firm. Not to mention both of the above would likely take LONGER to get it done, since they have to go back and analyze the way the website and it's underlying database are put together (not something done easily mind you!)

To those who are saying "Deadlines are deadlines, don't make them until you know you can keep them"... lemme guess, you've NEVER missed a deadline, or thought "Hmm, I can get this done in X" and taken longer than X to get it done. A deadline is simply a more educated estimate, they are still prone to sudden extensions or being missed due to unexpected circumstances.

*snip*

You're absolutely right that professional help would be expensive. But surely you'd agree that even just paying yak or somebody else on staff for a week or two would constitute a huge improvement over the status quo (and even better in some ways than an outside consultant, as this person would already be familiar with the environment). Still just a stop-gap until the FurAffinity codebase sees a complete overhaul, but an improvement all the same.

The problem isn't so much that this deadline's been skipped, but simply that FA's staff has developed a habit of saying one thing and apparently meaning another. It is better to quote a week and be finishined in five days than to say you'll be finished in two. People get upset when they feel they've been lied to, whether or not the other party was genuinely acting in good faith, and this is something that the administration really needs to work on.

I won't bother posting my credentials in reply to your later points, because nobody takes that sort of thing seriously.

 

[Dessy]

I really like how people are now sending me hateful messages on YIM. Really nice :3.

I should try that... >.o

 

[Bladewing]

Wow. Okay. I waded through all this and it comes down to this. *sigh*

Okay. FA's not up. What a shame. Oh well. It'll be up again later. Don't kill yourself Yak, I've been there and done that, sure I'd be done by a certain time but unable to meet that deadline. Because you know you're going to collapse anyway and then where will you be? Unconscious for a week most likely. Hospitalized? Maybe.

That's right furs, if Yak worked himself to collapse, you'd be out of FA for a lot longer than another day or two. I imagine any of you bitching about deadlines not being met haven't been in severe crunch time before. It. is not. easy. to meet deadlines you set every time. Boo hoo.

For those of you who are comparing this to real life jobs, and how if you didn't meet your deadline you'd be fired? That depends entirely on the job. And a valid reason will extend your deadline. Because if everyone who didn't meet their deadline was fired...

For anyone who thinks $16k+ was squandered because there's no way servers cost that much? A) look at the expenditures receipts. There's a post with it. I've downloaded it personally, so I know exactly what's on it. and B)you've obviously never purchased a server nor have you done any research on costs involved. Which means you have no idea what you're talking about.

For those of you who insist on calling those of us who tell the whiners to shut up jerks? We're telling them to shut up and do something because all they've been doing is whining. Going off and doing something and then coming right back and bitching that nothing happened. I dare all of you whiners to go find yourselves an advanced coding class and sit in on it and then come back and bitch about it taking too long. Coding. Takes. Time. This isn't magic. You going away isn't going to make FA come back up. The same people bitching over and over is tiresome. If you honestly aren't going to pick up a book or draw or watch a movie, then you can stop opening your mouth. I'm watching you people talk about how you did this and that, but everything you've done has only taken a couple hours and then you haunt here and whine about how it's not back. and yes, I DID donate. So don't ask.

For the guy who's got a trip on the 5th and will be gone a month with no net.... why can't you email the people commissioning you? Or instant messenger them? you shouldn't be relying on only one form of communication with people who are *paying* you.

For the people who's moneymaking is crippled because FA's down? Y'all know there's all sorts of places you can sell art as an alternative. That's no excuse for bitching either.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST.

Y'all need to remember Yak is HUMAN. He wants to exceed expectations but that doesn't mean he *can*. Don't assume FA is conspiring against y'all just cause a deadline wasn't met. Christ on a damned crutch.

I'm not checking here anymore except to see if there's any updates on site status if it's not up. C'mon people, there's more to life than FA. It's only been around since '05. You did other things before that. Do it again.

 

[Appule69]

I'm really not that upset anymore. I'm just preying that nothing else goes wrong. Hope Yak get plenty of rest

 

[Dessy]

You're preying or praying? I hope you're preying--that would be so much more exciting... >.<

 

[The Muffin Man]

All of the moaning, groaning, and bitching is making me laugh.
Jeez, it's a website. If anything, I feel bad for yak for pulling that 48 hours coding and probably almost nothing else (aside from normal human needs) .

It's funny, you're actually on the side doing the majority of groaning, moaning, and bitching.

 

[KenJKitsune]

C'mon people, there's more to life than FA. It's only been around since '05. You did other things before that. Do it again.

Quoted for truth.

Rest up, Yak. You more than deserved it.

 

[EddyOkapi]

It's funny, you're actually on the side doing the majority of groaning, moaning, and bitching.

Seconded, I'm all fine waiting longer so the staff can get it done properly and sleep but I saw a new tendency that those who bitch the most and loudest now are those who bitch about those who complains.. kind of ironic stuff, like it as been pointed earlier.

 

[Appule69]

You're preying or praying? I hope you're preying--that would be so much more exciting... >.<

Praying...or is it preying?

 

[Suntiger]

Given how deadlines usually work (in general, ergo both online and IRL) they are a set thing only in a platonic ideal.
Practically, a deadline is an estimate, or so all my experience have turned out.

About hiring a tech to work on the problem; here is what's left after the servers and harddrives were bought:
Total Left from Donation Drive Since 01JUL08: $1,963.22
(Thread: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=23826 )

I'm not sure how much "tech-time" you could get for that. Does anyone here have experience with what rates a tech charges?
Also, isn't it made more complicated with the tech first having to be familiarized with the hardware and software so he or she knows what he has to work with?