Furries vs. Therians

[Artic1010]

I never tought about it but now I think that I feel a bit like a therian cause I feel a strong spiritual bond with animals (mostly i prefer the animal company to the human one)

 

[Goronian]

Otherkin in the states developed from an alt.net groups and html websites in 1996-1997. I revolved around elves in media before it branched out to other mythical creatures in media and in D&D lore. After awhile, it grew into the whole "Reincarnation" business of past lives and being "x" in a human body, as well as new-age magic concepts.
Fictokin actually evolved out of otherkin, and the community shuns fictokin because their "lifestyle" and "past lives" aren't real.

Yeah, me and my husband fit the US otherkin bill pretty well. I still don't like the term, but I guess it can't be helped. But I still don't believe it's that related to furries. Yes, you can say, that lots of furries consider themselves otherkin, but lots of furries consider themselves gamers and you don't see this on the list, no?

 

[Attaman]

Yeah, me and my husband fit the US otherkin bill pretty well. I still don't like the term, but I guess it can't be helped. But I still don't believe it's that related to furries. Yes, you can say, that lots of furries consider themselves otherkin, but lots of furries consider themselves gamers and you don't see this on the list, no?

Bit of a false-equivalency, though. There isn't much of a common ground between Furry and Gaming outside of both being hobbies one can participate in and the whole debate of whether they're anthro characters or "Furry" characters. In a perfect world, there wouldn't need to be this distinction between "Furry" and "Otherkin" (one a hobby, the other a religion / philosophy), but you must keep in mind that many Furries consider them one in the same (to the ire of both other Furries and Otherkin), or in the very least extremely closely related because both feature animals.

Furthermore, Otherkin can typically find sympathetic souls in Furries. More often than not, an Otherkin can rely on fandom members to rush to their aid if someone mocks their beliefs, asks questions they aren't comfortable answering, etcetera. Add in that about 40% of the Furry Fandom does not consider itself fully human, and you've another "bonding" point between the two. No doubt misanthropy (something I'm surprised that's absent on Kil's Furry Survey) also plays a small part in the connection between the two.

 

[Ozriel]

Yeah, me and my husband fit the US otherkin bill pretty well. I still don't like the term, but I guess it can't be helped. But I still don't believe it's that related to furries. Yes, you can say, that lots of furries consider themselves otherkin, but lots of furries consider themselves gamers and you don't see this on the list, no?

Otherkin =/= Furry. There are otherkin in the fandom who find some common ground with furries, but otherkin itself isn't a subset within it. Same goes for Therianthropy.

Furthermore, Otherkin can typically find sympathetic souls in Furries. More often than not, an Otherkin can rely on fandom members to rush to their aid if someone mocks their beliefs, asks questions they aren't comfortable answering, etcetera. Add in that about 40% of the Furry Fandom does not consider itself fully human, and you've another "bonding" point between the two. No doubt misanthropy (something I'm surprised that's absent on Kil's Furry Survey) also plays a small part in the connection between the two.

It does in a sense. Not all Otherkin or therians are misanthropic, but it also has to do with people's involvement outside of the internet...socially.

 

[Goronian]

Otherkin =/= Furry. There are otherkin in the fandom, but otherkin itself isn't a subset within it.

Exactly what I was talking about. That's why it should probaby be removed from the list. Especially since otherwise it is pretty useful. Maybe even worth a sticky someday? Who knows, who cares.

However, if we remove "otherkin", they could still be mentioned under "therian". Something among the lines of "While some believe they have some kind of a spiritual or totemic connection to a certain animal, others simply believe, that they possess an animal soul." Sounds good?

 

[Ozriel]

However, if we remove "otherkin", they could still be mentioned under "therian". Something among the lines of "While some believe they have some kind of a spiritual or totemic connection to a certain animal, others simply believe, that they possess an animal soul." Sounds good?

That's the gist of the explanation of it...or atleast what others think of it.

 

[Translord]

Otherkin isn't in the list as a subset of the fandom or anything, I was trying to separate it from the fandom, however, if that's not clear, I can go change it so it is.

 

[Ovidius]

It's like the same argument over Wicca; all Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans due to the strict lineage traditions. Well, not argument as such, but the terms get cross-fired repeatedly between old and new generations. I'd consider both therianthropes and otherkin to be seperate from the furry fandom, but whether or not individuals dabble in it is entirely up to them - one of my ex's was an otherkin, but he still considered himself a furry as well, because he had a fursona. Generally the distinction seems to be that otherkin and therianthropy are more spiritual matters, whereas furry is in essence, a fandom - at least, that is how it appears to me, a person who's dabbled in both the otherkin and furry fandoms without majorly subscribing to both, who is now exploring the original definition of therian. All three are, in my mind, seperate spheres that may overlap at the individuals discretion.

The thread title does seem to be misleading; Furries vs Therians seems to imply a constant animosity instead of a discussion of definitions.

 

[Conker]

Add in that about 40% of the Furry Fandom does not consider itself fully human, and you've another "bonding" point between the two.

Jesus fuck, what? Is that really true?

 

[Carnie]

I would hoping that this would be some sort of nerd deathmatch thread.

Maybe some other time :/

 

[Attaman]

Jesus fuck, what? Is that really true?

39.65% of 2545 (or about 1009) do not consider themselves to be fully Human.

 

[Ozriel]

39.65% of 2545 (or about 1009) do not consider themselves to be fully Human.

It's the same question on the Anthrocon survey, except there are about 4-5 questions oh how human do you consider yourself and why.

In my opinion, people who think that they are less than or not human at all are usually the ones who have a mundane lifestyle. Ones that want to feel more like an individual than everyone else.

You see most of that behavior among adolescents and emerging adults between 20-25. Granted, some do not grow out of it and keep that mindset sometimes pass their prime.

The problem that I have with otherkin is that the most that I've seen have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards other people that do not have the same mindset.That attitude is also seen most in Dragon-kin. Granted, not all have that attitude.

 

[Furison]

I find the whole idea of Therians and Otherkin interesting, along with the whole 'wrong body' thing. It seems odd to me that people feel disassociated with their physical appearance and feel like they need to change it. It's almost along the lines of transsexuals who feel that they are a woman (or a man) trapped in a man's (or woman's) body

 

[Ovidius]

I find the whole idea of Therians and Otherkin interesting, along with the whole 'wrong body' thing. It seems odd to me that people feel disassociated with their physical appearance and feel like they need to change it. It's almost along the lines of transsexuals who feel that they are a woman (or a man) trapped in a man's (or woman's) body

The only issue with that, is that GID (Gender Identity Disorder - someone correct me if I'm wrong) is diagnosable and a recognized medical condition. Identifying as an animal or mythical species is.... well, not. Transsexuals are still identifying as human after all, so it is not alarmingly 'out there'. The other comparison I've seen tends to be between otherkin and amputees experiencing phantom limb sensations.

 

[Spatel]

I find the whole idea of Therians and Otherkin interesting, along with the whole 'wrong body' thing. It seems odd to me that people feel disassociated with their physical appearance and feel like they need to change it. It's almost along the lines of transsexuals who feel that they are a woman (or a man) trapped in a man's (or woman's) body

Psychologists are still trying to work out what it is. Some fall into the camp that it is a paraphilia, while others consider it a "Species Identity Disorder", analogous to Gender Identity Disorder as you said.

We don't fully understand how sexual development of the brain works but presumably the brain uses parents, siblings, and people in your age group to imprint itself. There is precedent from sexuality studies of animals that in a sufficiently isolated environment, with no members of the same species to template on, the brain turns to other things. Rats raised in isolation from other rats display mating behaviors towards humans more frequently than rats raised in groups, even when reintroduced. They couldn't develop a conception of 'beauty' for other rats because they had never seen rats growing up.

Combine a suburban, isolated lifestyle with strong introversion, distant parents, and a healthy diet of cartoons and video games with anthro characters and inevitably you get adults later on that are attracted to imaginary creatures instead of proper humans.

 

[Ozriel]

The only issue with that, is that GID (Gender Identity Disorder - someone correct me if I'm wrong) is diagnosable and a recognized medical condition. Identifying as an animal or mythical species is.... well, not. Transsexuals are still identifying as human after all, so it is not alarmingly 'out there'. The other comparison I've seen tends to be between otherkin and amputees experiencing phantom limb sensations.

For a person who feels as if they are the wrong species in the wrong body classifies as a dissociative disorder.
Not all otherkin fall into this category and it may be a symptom of eccentric-ism.

 

[Goronian]

In my opinion, people who think that they are less than or not human at all are usually the ones who have a mundane lifestyle. Ones that want to feel more like an individual than everyone else.

You see most of that behavior among adolescents and emerging adults between 20-25. Granted, some do not grow out of it and keep that mindset sometimes pass their prime.

The problem that I have with otherkin is that the most that I've seen have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards other people that do not have the same mindset.That attitude is also seen most in Dragon-kin. Granted, not all have that attitude.

Funny how I, while kind of fitting the "otherkin" bill have anything, but a mundane life. It was that weirdness that made me question my... Okay, let's call it "humanity", not the other way around. But I don't think I ever acted condescending towards anyone, who considers himself normal, even if I don't believe there are any truly "normal" people.

Combine a suburban, isolated lifestyle with strong introversion, distant parents, and a healthy diet of cartoons and video games with anthro characters and inevitably you get adults later on that are attracted to imaginary creatures instead of proper humans.

This is kind of weak. Lots of people grew in the exact same situation and never developed a fondness for anything furry. And, frankly, for any furry franchise on the markert, there are around ten decidedly non-furry. You don't see teens developing flushed feelings for lantern-jawed heroes that much, do you?

And don't confuse gender and sexuality. Sexuality is simply a sexual attraction to something, while gender is much more complex and consists of various social and culltural factors as well, as self-image. For example, I have GID, but I'm also bisexual, which has little to nothing to do with my GID.

 

[Foedus]

Despite the brief explanation, I'm still confused. Though I always viewed myself as a lifestyler. Many of my friends refer to me by my Furry Name "Sylver" or "Sylverclaws". I didn't know Otherkin existed though...

 

[BRN]

I think this thread is a pretty useful reference as a simplistic guide on the four, shall we say, "cultures of anthropomorphic identification" (?). Highlighting the differences between the groups is a neccessary thing, lest we blur the definition of all four to the irritation of the members, and the continued confusion of new parties.

Thus, would it be useful to sticky this? Although I contend the naming of the thread is poor.

 

[Ovidius]

SIX, I wouldn't consider otherkin or therianthropy (old or new) to be anything to do with anthropomorphics though, personally.

 

[BRN]

SIX, I wouldn't consider otherkin or therianthropy (old or new) to be anything to do with anthropomorphics though, personally.

Very much true; I really did find it hard to conjure up a phrase that might connect the four groups. In this case I said 'anthropomorphic identification' rather than 'anthropomorphics'.

If otherkin don't consider themselves "fully" human, and therians feel their human bodies connected to animal spirit, and furries represent themselves with animals, it sort-of maybe works... with a bit of license. :V

It's a really tenuous connection, though, and a more accurate phrase would be pretty welcomed.

 

[Goronian]

Very much true; I really did find it hard to conjure up a phrase that might connect the four groups. In this case I said 'anthropomorphic identification' rather than 'anthropomorphics'.

If otherkin don't consider themselves "fully" human, and therians feel their human bodies connected to animal spirit, and furries represent themselves with animals, it sort-of maybe works... with a bit of license. :V

It's a really tenuous connection, though, and a more accurate phrase would be pretty welcomed.

People with animal relations? No, that's even worse...

I still don't think otherkin have anything to do with furries, aside from some of them being furries. Terians are more... Circumstationally related, seeing how the two communites were pretty heavily interwoven since the early nineties. It just makes sense for the two related groups to hang out together.

 

[Translord]

I think this thread is a pretty useful reference as a simplistic guide on the four, shall we say, "cultures of anthropomorphic identification" (?). Highlighting the differences between the groups is a neccessary thing, lest we blur the definition of all four to the irritation of the members, and the continued confusion of new parties.

Thus, would it be useful to sticky this? Although I contend the naming of the thread is poor.

I've wanted to change the thread title, but I'm not quite sure what to change it to. It's named as such because it began as a list showing the differences between furry and therian, however as time went on, people were recommending things to add and they got added. It's difficult to find a title that fully summarizes what this is about. Hmm :/

 

[Translord]

Anyone have good thread name ideas?

 

[Spatel]

This is kind of weak. Lots of people grew in the exact same situation and never developed a fondness for anything furry. And, frankly, for any furry franchise on the markert, there are around ten decidedly non-furry. You don't see teens developing flushed feelings for lantern-jawed heroes that much, do you?

Environmental factors increase the likelihood, but don't guarantee anything. And teens develop attractions to other fictional characters all the time. It's just not considered unusual if those characters are human, so nobody cares.

And don't confuse gender and sexuality. Sexuality is simply a sexual attraction to something, while gender is much more complex and consists of various social and culltural factors as well, as self-image. For example, I have GID, but I'm also bisexual, which has little to nothing to do with my GID.

I'm well aware of that, as I have both as well.