Furry Acceptance in Today's World

[PercyD]

Oh, I'm sure that would happen anyway. At least to some extent, even if he was squeaky clean so to speak. Sorry if it sounded like I didn't think some people might give him a hard time. Some would bring out the tired old tropes, sure, but not everyone.

There was ambiguity about where he stands on the issue of sexual assault. Not simply from people pointing fingers and making assumptions about furries, but from what he himself claimed.

Kinks are a personal matter. If he claimed to be a swinger, said he was into BDSM etc. I don't think the reaction would have been as severe. I doubt many would care much about it, even if it was enough for him to lose the vote. Assault is where it stops being a personal thing, however, and becomes a problem for others around him.

Non-con kink in BDSM more falls into roleplaying then any thing else. The situation is fictional, there are strict rules in place so everyone has control over the situation, and, by that virtue, it is consentual. So maybe there is some intentional blackmailing going on?

But I don't want to know about my law maker's f-list. Lol.

 

[PercyD]

I got kinda-interrogated by a dude last week, but he merely snapped at his children (who were very sweet and friendly) that they didn't want a picture with me because "it's just a random person in a costume!"

More like he didn't want his kids taking pictures with a random person in a costume~.

The fandom has given me friends, novel experiences that I wouldn't have had otherwise, and opportunities to express myself at a deeper level. I first discovered the fandom by accident from watching a furry dance video on Youtube, and the rest was history. I've been in the fandom since 2012, by my count.

And honestly, same. Though I was in the fandom like... back in the late 90s and early 2000s, following artists on their websites and bucking about on web rings. Oh, and Cats Don't Dance.

 

[Filter]

Non-con kink in BDSM more falls into roleplaying then any thing else. The situation is fictional, there are strict rules in place so everyone has control over the situation, and, by that virtue, it is consentual. So maybe there is some intentional blackmailing going on?

But I don't want to know about my law maker's f-list. Lol.

Could be. I'm aware that it's a roleplay thing, but it's engaged in by consenting adults. That's probably what he meant, at least I hope so, as I'm not aware of any charges against the guy, but something about it turns him on. If he wasn't a politician, I think he would have a little more leeway.

Now I'm imagining what various public figures' F-Lists might look like. XD

 

[PercyD]

Could be. I'm aware that it's a roleplay thing, but it's roleplay engaged in by consenting adults. That's probably what he meant, at least I hope so, as I'm not aware of any charges against the guy, but something about it turns him on. If he wasn't a politician, I think he would have a little more leeway.

Now I'm imagining what various public figures' F-Lists might look like. XD

This is a good time to let everyone know that American Founding Father fanfiction exists, lol--

Yea, I hope it's just a roleplay thing. But Public Servants are under scrutiny. You gotta keep that kinda stuff under wraps or just pick a different line of work.

 

[Baron Tredegar]

Now I'm imagining what various public figures' F-Lists might look like. XD

Benjamin Franklin was into some kinky stuff actually. He did attend Hellfire Club meetings after all.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

Oh, so now it's off topic, huh Percy? If you think being fat is the same thing as a full, real disability you better hope to be in good health in the twilight years of your life, lest you be in for a very rude awakening. I did not ask, nor have either of us addressed each other and regardless I'd be happy to tell her the same thing. You are the one of the worst bad faith offenders on this site, and the fact you try to back out when you realize your claim is mindbogglingly terrible is very indicative of this.

I live in the real world. Being an eccentric loner has been more of a problem for me 100% of the time than not being heterosexual. No one really cares or asks about sexuality. Being disabled has faced me with far more discrimination than anyone even thinking I was gay. I'm calling you out on oppression Olympics because you're trying to hide from personal accountability due to whatever inherent traits you can while talking down to other people as though their own suffering means less than yours. This entire section of this thread only started because you were annoyed other people were getting attention.

Once again nothing was said about laws. It's legal to wear a fursuit to the grocery store but it's likely going to garner a lot of flak and abuse. In literally any way are any protected classes persecuted or oppressed? It's already a very serious crime in both nations to harass or harm another person on the basis of race, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender expression, and disability. AKA a hate crime. If these classes were truly systematically oppressed, these laws would not protect them uniquely.

Does this mean everything is perfectly fine for these classes? No. However, they are not oppressed by any extent of reality. Trying to shut down other people and call them names because they're concerned about their own issues doesn't fix yours or mine in the process. Everyone suffers, not just you Percy.

Eh, I'm calling bullshit on this.

First off, Percy is barely on this shit most of time and generally most people find Percy polite, if not outright friendly. I don't, and people most people will agree, think Percy is a prime offender, much more the worst offender on this site in terms of arguments or behavior. You have this trick, which did with Fallowfox (who is the stereotype of British politeness) or anyone calls you out, where you like to style them as being the absolute worst person on this site ... despite you actually being banned and disciplined on this site.

We can argue about how much a disability being overweight is. Compared to Parkinson's or cerebral palsy, it is probably less a burden to deal with, but being frank, those on the higher functioning end of the autism spectrum might be more able people with the aforementioned disabilities as well. Disabilities can be relative and each type of disability carries its own struggles. (Also, I admit I've never been overweight, so I might not be treating this with the due sensitivity it deserves.)

That said, some jurisdictions here and even in Canada consider obesity a disability since you can become obese due to injury (if you sustain a debilitating injury and can't exercise, for example), birth defects, or disease (see human adenovirus 36). Science has proven there are many factors lead to obesity that a good diet and exercise alone can't fix, though obviously everyone should be eating healthy and exercising.

Now where there might be some ambiguity about general disability and obesity, I don't think there is any question that here in the States, the QUILTBAG crowd is persecuted group, unambiguously. I've noticed you have a tendency to say the disabled face more trials and tribulations that queer folks and I don't know whether that is purely because you don't see a lot of discrimination against queer folks in Canada or just because you want to pit queer folks against the disabled while focusing on your struggles, but you constantly do it.

On the face of it, it is absurd to say to a queer American that "no one cares about sexuality" or that "there are laws against QUILTBAG discrimination, so they aren't systemically oppressed" because:

1.) It was only a couple of years ago the previous administration pushed a case through the courts to say that QUILTBAG Americans weren't covered by the Civil Rights Act and could be discriminated against in business and the workplace. To clarify, this would have allowed employers to fire QUILTBAG employees on the basis on of their identity and to discriminate against them in hiring process ... legally.

2.) There was a literal ban of transgender people in the military, which damaged thousands of servicemembers' careers.

3.) If that wasn't serious enough for you, because I feel you'll blow off that off, there is this handy comprehensive list of how good queer folks had it here.

4.) There also the current campaign against queer folks in various states here, often lead by state governments, especially Florida, forbidding them being mentioned in school curriculum and restricting the rights of transgender kids.

So while you personally may never have faced discrimination for being queer (which is at best an anecdotal yardstick for discrimination), it's been a whole different ballgame for queer folks in the States. Laws are only as good as they are enforced and laws against discrimination can repealed or ignored by discriminatory authorities.

Furthermore, on more personal note to you, I remember you mentioned that a boss apparently derided you for your disability (you expressed pain going up a flight of stairs and he made some flip comment about it) and that you were allegedly terminated due to that disability. By your reasoning, since Canada has legal protections for disabled citizens, you can't possibly be systematically oppressed because surely laws on the books mean they are being observed to the letter and enforced vigorously. An asshole might say you need persevere despite your disability and make do.

But obviously that would be wrong, both morally and practically.

 

[Zenoth]

Eh, I'm calling bullshit on this.

First off, Percy is barely on this shit most of time and generally most people find Percy polite, if not outright friendly. I don't, and people most people will agree, think Percy is a prime offender, much more the worst offender on this site in terms of arguments or behavior. You have this trick, which did with Fallowfox (who is the stereotype of British politeness) or anyone calls you out, where you like to style them as being the absolute worst person on this site ... despite you actually being banned and disciplined on this site.

We can argue about how much a disability being overweight is. Compared to Parkinson's or cerebral palsy, it is probably less a burden to deal with, but being frank, those on the higher functioning end of the autism spectrum might be more able people with the aforementioned disabilities as well. Disabilities can be relative and each type of disability carries its own struggles. (Also, I admit I've never been overweight, so I might not be treating this with the due sensitivity it deserves.)

That said, some jurisdictions here and even in Canada consider obesity a disability since you can become obese due to injury (if you sustain a debilitating injury and can't exercise, for example), birth defects, or disease (see human adenovirus 36). Science has proven there are many factors lead to obesity that a good diet and exercise alone can't fix, though obviously everyone should be eating healthy and exercising.

Now where there might be some ambiguity about general disability and obesity, I don't think there is any question that here in the States, the QUILTBAG crowd is persecuted group, unambiguously. I've noticed you have a tendency to say the disabled face more trials and tribulations that queer folks and I don't know whether that is purely because you don't see a lot of discrimination against queer folks in Canada or just because you want to pit queer folks against the disabled while focusing on your struggles, but you constantly do it.

On the face of it, it is absurd to say to a queer American that "no one cares about sexuality" or that "there are laws against QUILTBAG discrimination, so they aren't systemically oppressed" because:

1.) It was only a couple of years ago the previous administration pushed a case through the courts to say that QUILTBAG Americans weren't covered by the Civil Rights Act and could be discriminated against in business and the workplace. To clarify, this would have allowed employers to fire QUILTBAG employees on the basis on of their identity and to discriminate against them in hiring process ... legally.

2.) There was a literal ban of transgender people in the military, which damaged thousands of servicemembers' careers.

3.) If that wasn't serious enough for you, because I feel you'll blow off that off, there is this handy comprehensive list of how good queer folks had it here.

4.) There also the current campaign against queer folks in various states here, often lead by state governments, especially Florida, forbidding them being mentioned in school curriculum and restricting the rights of transgender kids.

So while you personally may never have faced discrimination for being queer (which is at best an anecdotal yardstick for discrimination), it's been a whole different ballgame for queer folks in the States. Laws are only as good as they are enforced and laws against discrimination can repealed or ignored by discriminatory authorities.

Furthermore, on more personal note to you, I remember you mentioned that a boss apparently derided you for your disability (you expressed pain going up a flight of stairs and he made some flip comment about it) and that you were allegedly terminated due to that disability. By your reasoning, since Canada has legal protections for disabled citizens, you can't possibly be systematically oppressed because surely laws on the books mean they are being observed to the letter and enforced vigorously. An asshole might say you need persevere despite your disability and make do.

But obviously that would be wrong, both morally and practically.

Sir, your 'white knighting' is adorable but not needed to the extent you belive it is.
You, almost comically, got point 4 wrong. Florida is not 'banning the word gay' from school, it's simply stating that 3rd grade is not the place and time for sex education classes.
While it hasn't always been the case, in these current times it's very accepted to be gay, bi, or lesbian (I personally find the term "quiltbag" stupid, and hate when straight people use it) and people that attack people for their sexuality usually loose big (as it should be). While disabled people are still stigmatized, sadly, quite regularly in this country.

 

[Regret]

This is one of these threads where I remember that there is a profound disconnect between the experiences I lived and continue to live and you guys. Some of you guys are wild and need to take a step back.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

Sir, your 'white knighting' is adorable but not needed to the extent you belive it is.
You, almost comically, got point 4 wrong. Florida is not 'banning the word gay' from school, it's simply stating that 3rd grade is not the place and time for sex education classes.
While it hasn't always been the case, in these current times it's very accepted to be gay, bi, or lesbian (I personally find the term "quiltbag" stupid, and hate when straight people use it) and people that attack people for their sexuality usually loose big (as it should be). While disabled people are still stigmatized, sadly, quite regularly in this country.

I mean, I never say the word "gay" was banned, so you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Furthermore, your understanding of the law is poor since the law has provisions pertaining to any QUILTBAG material being covered in any grade level, not just the sex education proscriptions for grade 3 and below. It also needs to be said that the law is being broadly interpreted, aggravating the situation. I'm assuming because you're Canadian, you're not, justifiably, familiar with the legal situation here.

But I would think that little things like not being to conduct business, being denied housing, being vulnerable to removal from your workplace, and denied effective medical care qualify as serious discrimination that indicates a stigma.

This list isn't inconsiderable:

Under Trump, LGBTQ Progress Is Being Reversed in Plain Sight

Donald Trump promised he would fight for LGBTQ people. Instead, his administration has systematically undone recent gains in their rights and protections. Here are 31 examples.

projects.propublica.org

Both QUILTBAG and disabled folks have struggles, but that shouldn't be used to downplay one group's struggles over the other.

Troj and Percy basically mirror my thoughts on the fandom stuff.

 

[Punji]

Eh, I'm calling bullshit on this.

First off, Percy is barely on this shit most of time and generally most people find Percy polite, if not outright friendly. I don't, and people most people will agree, think Percy is a prime offender, much more the worst offender on this site in terms of arguments or behavior. You have this trick, which did with Fallowfox (who is the stereotype of British politeness) or anyone calls you out, where you like to style them as being the absolute worst person on this site ... despite you actually being banned and disciplined on this site.

We can argue about how much a disability being overweight is. Compared to Parkinson's or cerebral palsy, it is probably less a burden to deal with, but being frank, those on the higher functioning end of the autism spectrum might be more able people with the aforementioned disabilities as well. Disabilities can be relative and each type of disability carries its own struggles. (Also, I admit I've never been overweight, so I might not be treating this with the due sensitivity it deserves.)

That said, some jurisdictions here and even in Canada consider obesity a disability since you can become obese due to injury (if you sustain a debilitating injury and can't exercise, for example), birth defects, or disease (see human adenovirus 36). Science has proven there are many factors lead to obesity that a good diet and exercise alone can't fix, though obviously everyone should be eating healthy and exercising.

Now where there might be some ambiguity about general disability and obesity, I don't think there is any question that here in the States, the QUILTBAG crowd is persecuted group, unambiguously. I've noticed you have a tendency to say the disabled face more trials and tribulations that queer folks and I don't know whether that is purely because you don't see a lot of discrimination against queer folks in Canada or just because you want to pit queer folks against the disabled while focusing on your struggles, but you constantly do it.

On the face of it, it is absurd to say to a queer American that "no one cares about sexuality" or that "there are laws against QUILTBAG discrimination, so they aren't systemically oppressed" because:

1.) It was only a couple of years ago the previous administration pushed a case through the courts to say that QUILTBAG Americans weren't covered by the Civil Rights Act and could be discriminated against in business and the workplace. To clarify, this would have allowed employers to fire QUILTBAG employees on the basis on of their identity and to discriminate against them in hiring process ... legally.

2.) There was a literal ban of transgender people in the military, which damaged thousands of servicemembers' careers.

3.) If that wasn't serious enough for you, because I feel you'll blow off that off, there is this handy comprehensive list of how good queer folks had it here.

4.) There also the current campaign against queer folks in various states here, often lead by state governments, especially Florida, forbidding them being mentioned in school curriculum and restricting the rights of transgender kids.

So while you personally may never have faced discrimination for being queer (which is at best an anecdotal yardstick for discrimination), it's been a whole different ballgame for queer folks in the States. Laws are only as good as they are enforced and laws against discrimination can repealed or ignored by discriminatory authorities.

Furthermore, on more personal note to you, I remember you mentioned that a boss apparently derided you for your disability (you expressed pain going up a flight of stairs and he made some flip comment about it) and that you were allegedly terminated due to that disability. By your reasoning, since Canada has legal protections for disabled citizens, you can't possibly be systematically oppressed because surely laws on the books mean they are being observed to the letter and enforced vigorously.

I guess you don't trust Percy to fight her own battles, hmm? The user in question has never been polite to anyone I've ever seen here. Not to me when I was polite to her and not to other people whole-heartedly supporting her during a fit over yet another imagined slight. Don't pretend people can't read these very public forums. As an unrequited courtesy to Fallow I dropped the history between us and forgot about it. I could just as easily post screenshots of the half-dozen times I very politely asked him to treat me with even a shred of decency and his immediate responses where he did very much the opposite. Not only is this a massive and irrelevant strawman, it's also blatantly false. I have always been far kinder to both and to you than any are kind to me.

Being overweight is a temporary condition. Physical or mental disables are almost universally permanent and much more extreme. I'm physically incapable of exercise and am forced to live a very sessile life, yet I've never been medically overweight and still lost thirty pounds over the last handful of months. My actual disability is totally permanent and actually affects my life in a volume of ways other people struggle to fully comprehend. It's truly a mockery to equate the two.

As above, there is nothing that creates obesity inherently. Fat tissues don't just spontaneously generate within the body. It may lead to disability over a prolonged period of time but is in no way a disability on its own.

Legally this is simply not true in either nation. I based my statements off reality; I've seen hundreds of pride flags, hear about dozens of pride parades, constantly see forced representation for LGBTs, and we even have a month-long period of awareness backed by globocorps and media giants the whole time. Meanwhile even in a very progressive city handicap parking is minimal or even nonexistent with few benches or places to rest. I visited a local police station not too long ago and had to pay for parking two blocks away. Meanwhile there's rainbow crosswalks everywhere. No one actually cares about either group but there's at least social pressure to shut up about anti-LGBT sentiments. And of course, I say this as someone who is both disabled and queer. Only one of them has really been an issue for me personally and it's not the one everyone else seems to complain about.

1. This has only been the case for some parts of America. Canada has been ahead of that curve for some time, as this was added to Canadian law in 1996.
2. There are many reasons for why this was done, but even so I don't see this as a huge issue to not allow certain people to be used and spat out. The only good things about my disability are handicap parking (which one has to apply for) and effective immunity to a draft. Maybe that's just me.
3. Literally politics, not even going to read that one. As you know, politics are against the rules now, Miles.
4. Once again, NO POLITICS. Secondly, don't be ridiculous. Removal of these concepts from young children in public schools is not a removal of rights. Parents are still free to teach their children n these matters as they see fit, and personally I don't feel children so young should be exposed to concepts they couldn't understand. Wait until puberty.

Very nice, now let's see the list of disability concerns. The onset of disability has resulted in far more Americans losing their military careers for example, but that's just seen as okay.

Yes, and no. That's partly correct. My at the time boss asked me if I could go up stairs with my disability, over a year into my position. A visually healthy, ~6'2 athletically built young adult who had been managing the position perfectly fine for over a year was suddenly incapable of basic movement in his mind when I told him of my disability. This was a short and wide balding guy in his late 40s whom I towered over. The entire concept he had of me for so long was worthless when he found out I had a disability, and that was seen as okay by everyone else. If I told him I had a boyfriend instead, it wouldn't have been okay anymore for him to react like that. The one who fired me over my disability was another guy altogether. I'd have loved to sue, but in a court of law it would have simply been his word against mine and my circumstantial case. The only reason I kept my job from the previous position was because the man could not fire me without a reason and that legally this reason couldn't be my disability.

An asshole might say you need persevere despite your disability and make do.

But obviously that would be wrong, both morally and practically.

You say this, but my genuine advice to others with disability is exactly so. The world doesn't care, it won't try to help often.

What can I do? There is nothing to help in any way beyond my own self. I could never rely on others such as yourself to help me, even if you somehow could.

 

[Zenoth]

I mean, I never say the word "gay" was banned, so you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Right there in Point 4 of your wall of text, it says quite clearly , "forbidding them being mentioned"[SIC]. Shall I send you a digital Thesaurus?

 

[Miles Marsalis]

You say this, but my genuine advice to others with disability is exactly so. The world doesn't care, it won't try to help often.

What can I do? There is nothing to help in any way beyond my own self. I could never rely on others such as yourself to help me, even if you somehow could.

I mean, I don't doubt your personal situation of being disabled left you with that impression, but I'd point that society has come a long way in how we treat the disabled. Accessibility standards and programs to help the disabled lead productive and enjoyable lives do exist now, in large part due to social progress on that front.

I believe in people helping themselves, sometimes people need help to help themselves and a safety net doesn't hurt.

Right there in Point 4 of your wall of text, it says quite clearly , "forbidding them being mentioned"[SIC]. Shall I send you a digital Thesaurus?

"Them" being QUILTBAG folks, which should be self-explanatory, but clearly not.

 

[Filter]

Benjamin Franklin was into some kinky stuff actually. He did attend Hellfire Club meetings after all.

I wouldn't be surprised. Ben Franklin is one of my favorite historical figures. I wonder if Voltaire did too.

 

[Smityyyy]

I’m sorely disappointed at the lack of awareness of intersectionality and regional struggle.

 

[Punji]

I mean, I don't doubt your personal situation of being disabled left you with that impression, but I'd point that society has come a long way in how we treat the disabled. Accessibility standards and programs to help the disabled lead productive and enjoyable lives do exist now, in large part due to social progress on that front.

I believe in people helping themselves, sometimes people need help to help themselves and a safety net doesn't hurt.

Unfortunately even so, the accessibility options for severely disabled people are very marginal. Often any supports are stigmatized and/or expensive as well.

I agree completely.

 

[Smityyyy]

Unfortunately even so, the accessibility options for severely disabled people are very marginal. Often any supports are stigmatized and/or expensive as well.

I agree completely.

This is where I often remind people that the USA has the best protections in the world for disabled folks… and even what we have ain’t enough. Slapping on the bare minimum shouldn’t be what we celebrate, but here we are. The ADA has changed lives for many Americans but the cost of healthcare makes it really hard to even use these protections to their full extent.

I look forward to a better future for those of us who have disabilities — visible or invisible. My recommendation to people is to get out and vote locally for better accommodations for your neighbors with disabilities and continue to be a voice for access laws. Whether or not you’re disabled, we need more support for the cause.

I’m sorry for your situation, and I can relate. Having a poorly-understood disability can make life stressful and hard to navigate. And most folks just don’t get it.

 

[PercyD]

Sir, your 'white knighting' is adorable but not needed to the extent you belive it is.
You, almost comically, got point 4 wrong. Florida is not 'banning the word gay' from school, it's simply stating that 3rd grade is not the place and time for sex education classes.
While it hasn't always been the case, in these current times it's very accepted to be gay, bi, or lesbian (I personally find the term "quiltbag" stupid, and hate when straight people use it) and people that attack people for their sexuality usually loose big (as it should be). While disabled people are still stigmatized, sadly, quite regularly in this country.

I think QUILTBAG is fun and should be used more often. But thats neither here nor there.

 

[PercyD]

Benjamin Franklin was into some kinky stuff actually. He did attend Hellfire Club meetings after all.

Ben Franklin I'm 100% sure would have had a turkey sona. He also was an avid erotica writer apparently.

His friends knew he was weird but they accepted him any way. Besides, he was brilliant and his eccentricities just were part of the package.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

I want to split this up Punji, because you clearly don't understand the case law.

1. This has only been the case for some parts of America. Canada has been ahead of that curve for some time, as this was added to Canadian law in 1996.

First off, had the previous administration won its case regarding the language in the Civil Rights Act, it would have applied federally here in the United States, not just in "some parts of America". I previously that because of your relatively cozy position of being Canada, you might not be unfamiliar with the case here, which you response bore out.

2. There are many reasons for why this was done, but even so I don't see this as a huge issue to not allow certain people to be used and spat out. The only good things about my disability are handicap parking (which one has to apply for) and effective immunity to a draft. Maybe that's just me.

There were many wrong reasons why this was done and you're trying cast people serving their country in military as being "used and spat out" to cover your ass. Also the draft hasn't been an issue in this country for decades; everyone in the military goes in voluntarily. The majority of DOD officials and military commanders advised against the ban and clearly laid out why it would harm our military's ability to complete its ongoing missions, including the SecDef, but the administration did anyway for political purposes.

3. Literally politics, not even going to read that one. As you know, politics are against the rules now, Miles.

This is literally bullshit because you know you've been caught out and it is merely a list of the rights QUILTBAG people have had rolled back. It's no different from you listing the struggles disabled citizens face and me calling that "political".

People have a right to their rights, or lack thereof, acknowledged.

4. Once again, NO POLITICS. Secondly, don't be ridiculous. Removal of these concepts from young children in public schools is not a removal of rights. Parents are still free to teach their children n these matters as they see fit, and personally I don't feel children so young should be exposed to concepts they couldn't understand. Wait until puberty.

Once again, this is a cop out on your part. It's not like this law is banning queer pornography or sex education for being presented in grade 3 and below. It is going so far as to ban even the mentioning of gay historical figures or the gay rights movements in school curriculum. Teachers are not allowed mention they are queer either.

Additionally, you brought politics into this by your comments regarding discrimination laws here in the first place.

Yes, and no. That's partly correct. My at the time boss asked me if I could go up stairs with my disability, over a year into my position. A visually healthy, ~6'2 athletically built young adult who had been managing the position perfectly fine for over a year was suddenly incapable of basic movement in his mind when I told him of my disability. This was a short and wide balding guy in his late 40s whom I towered over. The entire concept he had of me for so long was worthless when he found out I had a disability, and that was seen as okay by everyone else. If I told him I had a boyfriend instead, it wouldn't have been okay anymore for him to react like that. The one who fired me over my disability was another guy altogether. I'd have loved to sue, but in a court of law it would have simply been his word against mine and my circumstantial case. The only reason I kept my job from the previous position was because the man could not fire me without a reason and that legally this reason couldn't be my disability.

Both bosses sound like employees of my worst clients and assholes for that. Just my opinion.

I didn't realize those were two separate situations, but that doesn't detract from what I said and how shitty were you treated.

I'd point out that with the first boss you mentioned, he was unable to fire you because legal protections you had to being disabled. Respect and acceptance for the disabled is extremely important, but what is even more important on a practical level are legal protections for vulnerable groups like disabled (and separately QUILTBAG) folks that allow them to work in and navigate society regardless of people's attitudes. That was the reasoning behind the Civil Rights Act here, which was meant to combat racism and forms of discrimination in the workplace.

Being overweight is a temporary condition. Physical or mental disables are almost universally permanent and much more extreme. I'm physically incapable of exercise and am forced to live a very sessile life, yet I've never been medically overweight and still lost thirty pounds over the last handful of months. My actual disability is totally permanent and actually affects my life in a volume of ways other people struggle to fully comprehend. It's truly a mockery to equate the two.

As above, there is nothing that creates obesity inherently. Fat tissues don't just spontaneously generate within the body. It may lead to disability over a prolonged period of time but is in no way a disability on its own.

I mean, I'll reiterate that disabilities can be relative to each other and there are variety of ways someone can be obese that they have little to no power over. They can be born with a condition that cause them to slowly gain weight and not put it off over time. They could sustain an injury that makes it impossible to lose the weight through diet and exercise. I also mentioned adenovirus, which is prevalent in many populations.

I guess you don't trust Percy to fight her own battles, hmm? The user in question has never been polite to anyone I've ever seen here. Not to me when I was polite to her and not to other people whole-heartedly supporting her during a fit over yet another imagined slight. Don't pretend people can't read these very public forums. As an unrequited courtesy to Fallow I dropped the history between us and forgot about it. I could just as easily post screenshots of the half-dozen times I very politely asked him to treat me with even a shred of decency and his immediate responses where he did very much the opposite. Not only is this a massive and irrelevant strawman, it's also blatantly false. I have always been far kinder to both and to you than any are kind to me.

I'll point what you say back at you; this is a public forum and people see what you do. I think Fallow and Percy both are well-known and well-liked enough that most people on the forum would disagree with your characterization.

 

[PercyD]

I'll point what you say back at you; this is a public forum and people see what you do. I think Fallow and Percy both are well-known and well-liked enough that most people on the forum would disagree with your characterization.

Just FYI.
I appreciate Miles. And his hot takes are usually good. I learn a lot from him.When they're not, he's also willing to listen and learn.


But I've already made the decision to block Punji and Yakamaru. Primarily because they aren't gonna say anything new or profound. And I'm not gonna waste my time with folks who are gonna purposefully misread me. I've been consistently saying the same thing over and over again. Theyre not gonna get it. And they are gonna contine to derail the thread with their ignorance.

Case and point- when I revealed what Punji has said he's over there in blocked land saying I've never been polite in my fucking life. Lol.
I don't give a fuck, bro. Being rude to you in particular isn't against the law. That's all you could pull up on me? That I'm rude?
I should report you for attacking me and harassment. But that would involve me unblocking you and going through your shit takes. Not worth my time.

Keep my name out of your posts. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[PercyD]

I’m sorely disappointed at the lack of awareness of intersectionality and regional struggle.

Yep. Thats another thing. Most of these actual oppressed people are in the community. I'm one of them. If we are gonna talk about oppression of furries, thats about as close as we'll get. Particularly since a lot of these oppressed people cant survive without a community, and the furry community has to stand in for that.
But that has nothing to do with the hobby beyond someone only getting exposure to these issues because their furry friends are impacted.

Its better to talk about how we can help. Maybe how we can use the hobby as a guise. Increasing employment opportunities for oppressed individuals. Etc etc

 

[Zenoth]

QUILTBAG material being covered in any grade level, not just the sex education proscriptions for grade 3 and below. It also needs to be said that the law is being broadly interpreted, aggravating the situation. I'm assuming because you're Canadian, you're not, justifiably, familiar with the legal situation here.

Lol, typical of you Miles, sadly typical. A lgbt person tells you that using the term quiltbag as a straight person is , in their opinion stupid and offputting, and you continue to do so when communicating with said person. Also you know I'm not Canadian from our previous interactions. It seems you also haven't read the law at all or you would know what you are saying, is wrong.

As for on topic; furry as a fandom is pretty accaptable, our conventions aren't a underground hidden thing. Like all slightly odd fandoms there will be people that make fun of it.

 

[Zenoth]

I think QUILTBAG is fun and should be used more often. But thats neither here nor there.

To each their own. In my opinion it came across as a new attempt at a slur, when I first heard it.

 

[PercyD]

To each their own. In my opinion it came across as a new attempt at a slur, when I first heard it.

That's unfortunate. QUILTBAG is fun. Plus, it's pretty representative of what we are. Its a collection of experiences, swaths of identies, formed into a neat and helpful utility. Think about it~

 

[Punji]

First off, had the previous administration won its case regarding the language in the Civil Rights Act, it would have applied federally here in the United States, not just in "some parts of America". I previously that because of your relatively cozy position of being Canada, you might not be unfamiliar with the case here, which you response bore out.

I don't see why my own personal anecdotes shouldn't be worth anything if Percy's are supposed to be valuable. I'm being generous here and relating to a foreign country rather than having other users try to relate to mine, so don't blame me if I don't bother to cite all your posts for you. Canada, where I live and have always lived, has had this policy in place for a long time. Legal protection has been the case for Canadians for a quarter century and I'm sure even the ass-backwards US has seen cases where hate-motivations were related to criminal sentencing.

There were many wrong reasons why this was done and you're trying cast people serving their country in military as being "used and spat out" to cover your ass. Also the draft hasn't been an issue in this country for decades; everyone in the military goes in voluntarily. The majority of DOD officials and military commanders advised against the ban and clearly laid out why it would harm our military's ability to complete its ongoing missions, including the SecDef, but the administration did anyway for political purposes.

"""Voluntarily""" you say. Right. Men are required to sign up for the draft to access a number of social programs as well as to avoid potential penalties. This is just getting too political for the FAF Miles. I'm starting to get very bored and it's losing focus.

This is literally bullshit because you know you've been caught out and it is merely a list of the rights QUILTBAG people have had rolled back. It's no different from you listing the struggles disabled citizens face and me calling that "political".

People have a right to their rights, or lack thereof, acknowledged.

Literally didn't read it after seeing the title. Another garbage clickbait waste of time I'm sure. A reputable source would be nice. If these claims were true, you could cite them from a government source, not just a media fear-mongering outlet.

Once again, this is a cop out on your part. It's not like this law is banning queer pornography or sex education for being presented in grade 3 and below. It is going so far as to ban even the mentioning of gay historical figures or the gay rights movements in school curriculum. Teachers are not allowed mention they are queer either.

Additionally, you brought politics into this by your comments regarding discrimination laws here in the first place.

No, it's quite appropriate. Ask a small child what "gay" means, they're not gonna know or care. It's not appropriate for the age group, nor is it "stripping rights" from anyone. You're being very disingenuous.

Both bosses sound like employees of my worst clients and assholes for that. Just my opinion.

I didn't realize those were two separate situations, but that doesn't detract from what I said and how shitty were you treated.

I'd point out that with the first boss you mentioned, he was unable to fire you because legal protections you had to being disabled. Respect and acceptance for the disabled is extremely important, but what is even more important on a practical level are legal protections for vulnerable groups like disabled (and separately QUILTBAG) folks that allow them to work in and navigate society regardless of people's attitudes. That was the reasoning behind the Civil Rights Act here, which was meant to combat racism and forms of discrimination in the workplace.

They were both awful. Really just short-term dead-end jobs so I guess, ya' know. It's what one should come to expect I guess. Other companies I worked for have been much better.

Exactly as I said, I wasn't fired because he couldn't fire me. I had legal protection. He didn't know until then because I wanted to have a job, and telling people I'm disabled is generally not a good idea for these kinds of things. Discrimination is alive and well, but from other people, not the system or my government.

I mean, I'll reiterate that disabilities can be relative to each other and there are variety of ways someone can be obese that they have little to no power over. They can be born with a condition that cause them to slowly gain weight and not put it off over time. They could sustain an injury that makes it impossible to lose the weight through diet and exercise. I also mentioned adenovirus, which is prevalent in many populations.

It's quite literally impossible to gain weight from nothing. Once again I am literally unable to exercise or burn fat through exertion, it's literally not possible for me. This is what an actual disability can be like. Being fat is not the same thing, nor are the two equvalent.

I'll point what you say back at you; this is a public forum and people see what you do. I think Fallow and Percy both are well-known and well-liked enough that most people on the forum would disagree with your characterization.

It's very much in your "friends'" best interests for you to drop this, Miles.

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forums.furaffinity.net

Here's a very public account of one of those users being an awful, toxic and disruptive presence. The other user again is known as a prick to everyone who doesn't appear to align politically. I'm a lot nicer to the lot of you than the inverse and I always have been. You all know that, and acting like the two and more are good, decent people does not match the reality of their very public posts.