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Saiko

GTWT Survivor
A “god” who demands I hurt myself for no reason other than because he says so is neither loving nor just and is unworthy of my worship.
 

Beatle9

Asexual coywolf and amateur writer.
I will go ahead and quote Charles Spurgeon here by saying there is more evil in one drop of sin than in a whole sea of affliction and suffering. If following Christ means denying oneself sex and thus suffering those consequences, then so be it. The Gospels no where mention being a disciple of Christ as easy and getting what you want and having it good. In fact, the Gospels depict being a disciple of Christ as "picking up your cross," suffering all forms of persecution, and ultimately denying yourself. The Gospel says that if we love our parents more than Jesus, we are unworthy to be His disciple. This is the hard truth, and with that we dedicate ourselves to lives of service - to God and to our neighbor. If you do not like this and refuse to accept it, very well, go ahead and do so - I cannot change my mind. But by no means will I keep silent.
So what you're saying is, you know following your faith isn't healthy for you mentally and physically, but you do it anyway because a stupid book that god and Jesus didn't even write tells you to? That's not a very good justification.
 

Simo

Professional Watermelon Farmer
...we dedicate ourselves to lives of service - to God and to our neighbor.

Speaking of service, I've been cleaning all day, and the place still needs work. How about you come over, and mop my floors, clean the windows, finish the laundry and gimmie some service, neighbor! It won't be easy, either! : P
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
Philip Doddridge (1702-1751)


Grace, ’tis a charming sound,

Harmonious to mine ear;

Heaven with the echo shall resound,

And all the earth shall hear.



Grace first contrived the way

To save rebellious man;

And all the steps that grace display

Which drew the wondrous plan.



Grace first inscribed my name

In God’s eternal book;

’Twas grace that gave me to the Lamb,

Who all my sorrows took.



Grace led my roving feet

To tread the heavenly road;

And new supplies each hour I meet,

While pressing on to God.



Grace taught my soul to pray

And made mine eyes o’erflow;

’Twas grace which kept me to this day,

And will not let me go.



Grace all the work shall crown,

Through everlasting days;

It lays in heaven the topmost stone,

And well deserves the praise.



O let Thy Grace inspire

My soul with strength divine

My all my powers to Thee aspire,

And all my days be Thine.
 

jtrekkie

Feathered
Heh, I just wanted to state, for the record, that I am NOT afraid of being sent to hell, if it's my destiny. If God exists, and if I were to be punished for the way I life my life, then so be it. I'm not about to be false to myself and deny who I am for ANYONE.

I think you're the third person I've heard that from recently. The thing is, no one is asking you to give up your likes or your personality or anything. That's not really who you are anyway. But if you're committed to being true to yourself, you've determined that you can never change.
 
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FluffyShutterbug

Guest
I will go ahead and quote Charles Spurgeon here by saying there is more evil in one drop of sin than in a whole sea of affliction and suffering. If following Christ means denying oneself sex and thus suffering those consequences, then so be it. The Gospels no where mention being a disciple of Christ as easy and getting what you want and having it good. In fact, the Gospels depict being a disciple of Christ as "picking up your cross," suffering all forms of persecution, and ultimately denying yourself. The Gospel says that if we love our parents more than Jesus, we are unworthy to be His disciple. This is the hard truth, and with that we dedicate ourselves to lives of service - to God and to our neighbor. If you do not like this and refuse to accept it, very well, go ahead and do so - I cannot change my mind. But by no means will I keep silent.
Felix. Religion is supposed to be something that comes from within you. You sound rather miserable following what you follow, and I highly suggest that you reevaluate yourself. You sound like you're being oppressive towards yourself. What's even the point of being a part of something that constantly belittles and oppresses yourself? Religion is supposed to be something that resonates with you and makes you feel like you're part of something greater than yourself.
 
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FluffyShutterbug

Guest
I think you're the third person I've heard that from recently. The thing is, no one is asking you to give up your likes or your personality or anything. That's not really who you are anyway. But if you're committed to being true to yourself, you've determined that you can never change.
Right. I am not sorry for who I am and I never will be.
 

Water Draco

Next LondonFurs?? Please stay tuned
Felix,
Can you accept that you have your beliefs and others have their own? At the end of the day we are all on the same blue marble orbiting a star. Although from time to time we have our disagreements can we not all endeavour to live our lives peaceably together.
 
L

-..Legacy..-

Guest
Felix,
Can you accept that you have your beliefs and others have their own? At the end of the day we are all on the same blue marble orbiting a star. Although from time to time we have our disagreements can we not all endeavour to live our lives peaceably together.

Thus, the end argument. Can you tolerate one another?
 

Saiko

GTWT Survivor
Felix,
Can you accept that you have your beliefs and others have their own? At the end of the day we are all on the same blue marble orbiting a star. Although from time to time we have our disagreements can we not all endeavour to live our lives peaceably together.
I don’t feel like he’s being intolerant. He simply holds a moral opinion against a group - which is VERY different. The problem I’m getting at is that his belief system has critical flaws that are both incredibly common among young evangelicals and horrendously bad for persuasion and evangelism. In fact it drives a great many people away.
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
Felix,
Can you accept that you have your beliefs and others have their own? At the end of the day we are all on the same blue marble orbiting a star. Although from time to time we have our disagreements can we not all endeavour to live our lives peaceably together.

Yes, I am able and willing to live with people of other beliefs, that’s why I am not bashing any of you. But I do share mine, and I welcome you to share yours. In all reality, I love each and everyone of you. One of my greatest enemies is depression and low self esteem, and I am not here trying to cause division or hate.
 

Beatle9

Asexual coywolf and amateur writer.
Yes, I am able and willing to live with people of other beliefs, that’s why I am not bashing any of you. But I do share mine, and I welcome you to share yours. In all reality, I love each and everyone of you. One of my greatest enemies is depression and low self esteem, and I am not here trying to cause division or hate.
If those are two of your greatest enemies it sounds like your brand of faith is doing more harm to you than good... imho
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
Felix. Religion is supposed to be something that comes from within you. You sound rather miserable following what you follow, and I highly suggest that you reevaluate yourself. You sound like you're being oppressive towards yourself. What's even the point of being a part of something that constantly belittles and oppresses yourself? Religion is supposed to be something that resonates with you and makes you feel like you're part of something greater than yourself.

Nothing resonates with me and causes me to break down into tears of joy than the grace of God which is displayed in Christ.
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
The only reason my esteem isn’t any lower than it is is because I believe in a God who humbled Himself so that miserable creatures like I can be exalted and can be called His beloved child.
 
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FluffyShutterbug

Guest
Nothing resonates with me and causes me to break down into tears of joy than the grace of God which is displayed in Christ.
No, that can't be true. You're not looking hard enough. SOMETHING has to work for you.
The only reason my esteem isn’t any lower than it is is because I believe in a God who humbled Himself so that miserable creatures like I can be exalted and can be called His beloved child.
Can I ask, why do you have such a low opinion of yourself?
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
You guys are not talking to someone who believes himself better than anyone. You are talking to a miserable worm who cannot fathom being any more than a sinner saved by grace. But because of that grace I am given a crown of life.
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
I should take a break now and enjoy some music... talk to you all later. Love you guys.
 

Lunar Man

Cosmic Uncertainty
Ok so I have to take a moment and be serious when I say that this stuff really has no place whatsoever in this or any fandom
Everything has a place within this fandom.

You guys are not talking to someone who believes himself better than anyone. You are talking to a miserable worm who cannot fathom being any more than a sinner saved by grace. But because of that grace I am given a crown of life.

You alright? Like, is something bothering you? I'm no therapist, but DM me if you want to talk about something.
 
F

FluffyShutterbug

Guest
Technically, something does work for him. Faith.
It's not what you want to work for him, but he thinks it's enough. Is it perfect? No. But it's not much better to insist that a depressed person just isn't trying hard enough not to be depressed.
Um, that's not what I was trying to say. I was saying that his faith seemed to be toxic to his well-being. I'm not the type of person to go around blaming people for their depression. But, it does seem to me like he's being shackled by his faith. I'm legitimately worried about him.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
No, Paul wrote some crap about it in the New Testament; so there’s enough material to perpetuate the debate in Christianity.

That being said, Paul wrote a lot of things that I find to be quite ridiculous. Realizing that the author of most of the New Testament used the same arguments and rhetorical gymnastics that frustrate me the most was actually the straw that broke my faith and drove me to atheism.
Back in the olden days, when I was relatively new to the Internet, one of my online aquaintances was a preacher's son. His wise words about Paul were as such: "Paul was a doodie-head." Being an apostle doesn't make him right about everything; there's the whole selling Jesus out to the Romans and denying Jesus thing, for two blatant examples.
_____________________________

The primary thing I have retained from my childhood religious teachings (my 1st grade teacher had a curious tendency to turn practically every class into Christianity class, and the local scout club was church-affiliated) is the Golden Rule. With age and maturity, my understanding of it has matured and deepened. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you obviously doesn't mean "if you're a masochist you can go around slapping people" - you should treat others well, because treating your fellow humans well is treating yourself well, and on the whole it'll make the world a better place as most people have the manners to reciprocate and/or pay it forward.
 

Felix Bernard

Chemist, Conservative, Mark Levin fan
Um, that's not what I was trying to say. I was saying that his faith seemed to be toxic to his well-being. I'm not the type of person to go around blaming people for their depression. But, it does seem to me like he's being shackled by his faith. I'm legitimately worried about him.

No! No!
My shackles are broken by my faith. There’s a reason I’m not dead - that’s because I’m sure there’s a God who loves me.
 
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