Understood. At least my animations are still going to be allowed.
Just one more question on the subject.
Are user created texture maps enough to count as user created content?
FYI - Acceptable Upload Policy (AUP) Update
- Thread starter Dragoneer
- Start date
Understood. At least my animations are still going to be allowed.
Just one more question on the subject.
Are user created texture maps enough to count as user created content?
farellemoon
New Member
// images meant to showcase personal collections (e.g. toys, games, movies) must be uploaded to Scraps.
What of instances where it's showing a collection that is of artwork? Like how some people will upload collections of badges they have done OR collected or convention prints?
They uploaded it to their scraps but this is the best example I could find: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1281267/
Had that been my shot (ha!) I would have tried to add it to my gallery.
What of instances where it's showing a collection that is of artwork? Like how some people will upload collections of badges they have done OR collected or convention prints?
They uploaded it to their scraps but this is the best example I could find: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1281267/
Had that been my shot (ha!) I would have tried to add it to my gallery.
Yeah, but if you texture map a mustache on a pre-made avatar I'm going to laugh at you.
*cough*
Yes, within reason. If the texture map is a significant focus of the image, then I'm fine with it. But if people are mapping something really insignificant within the image then probably not.
In this instance they created it, so it's fine.
Photomorphing is acceptable so long as it doesn't violate the section regarding photos and sexual organs.
The reason why I ask this is because I use a self created texture map on the furraldo poser figure (which, in case it's relevant, has been released by Little Dragon himself to be used in even commercial applications) to represent myself in 3D. I just want to make sure that it is still permissible to do this.
wolfbird
Member
"Submissions made with renderers (e.g Poser) must contain "User created content". If there is no "User created content" in the submission, then it may not be uploaded. Fractal and landscape generated artwork may be uploaded, within reason, provided they do not violate the Flooding Policy."
Thank GOD on this one.
I am so tired of seeing terrible Poser "art" spamming the Browse function. I am also sick of people who put so little skill/effort into Poser crap getting props for it. Come on, you didn't make it-- you just posed it in a (usually unnatural) position. You're not fooling any real artists.
Funny thing, really-- I live with a 3D artist and when first introduced to Poser I honestly though it was some kind of joke name that real 3D artists called it for laughs. You know, in the same way street punks laugh at kids from the suburbs with safety pins in their clothes and call them posers. It occurred to me only later that Poser is also used as an anatomy reference (ever wanted a specific pose reference before and Google images wasn't finding any?)... and I honestly can't think of why anyone would want to use it for anything more than that.
Thank GOD on this one.
I am so tired of seeing terrible Poser "art" spamming the Browse function. I am also sick of people who put so little skill/effort into Poser crap getting props for it. Come on, you didn't make it-- you just posed it in a (usually unnatural) position. You're not fooling any real artists.
Funny thing, really-- I live with a 3D artist and when first introduced to Poser I honestly though it was some kind of joke name that real 3D artists called it for laughs. You know, in the same way street punks laugh at kids from the suburbs with safety pins in their clothes and call them posers. It occurred to me only later that Poser is also used as an anatomy reference (ever wanted a specific pose reference before and Google images wasn't finding any?)... and I honestly can't think of why anyone would want to use it for anything more than that.
Talosar
Member
I don't necessarily agree, but I'm glad that it's been thoroughly discussed and thought over. As I said earlier I can see what you're trying to do with this. I think it's good that you're focused on growth and improvement, and I know you get a lot of people complaining about everything, so I was reluctant to add to that. I just wanted to express a concern, which is still there, somewhat, but I'm content to take an optimistic approach and see how it all works out.
Kefan
Centaur of Attention
While I will agree with you that 'anyone can pose a pre-made avatar', not everyone can pose them meaningfully or well, so I'm going to have to disagree with you here--not least because this rule will nearly terminate my ability to contribute here and as written eliminate just over half my gallery as it currently stands. The only props in there that I actually 'constructed' are the theremin (used twice) and the telescope (used once).
I would argue that there is a huge difference between just throwing a render of a prop or model up, and actually assembling a scene, even if "just" using pre-existing props and models. The focus isn't the model, it's the idea the model represents, and occasionally the point the Poser artist is trying to get across.
Yes, I use pre-existing models pretty much exclusively. I lack the tools, the knowledge, and the deep understanding of physical form it takes to create a good original model that will pose realistically, or even plausibly.
But working in Poser is a lot more than just playing with digital Barbie and Ken dolls.
The animation-yes/static-no split misses a very important point: not all 3D artists think like directors. I'm a photographer by avocation. I think in individual frames, not sequences, and I treat Poser (and Bryce) as a way to 'photograph' what's in my mind that I lack the technical skill to draw.
I can see wanting to bar images of just bland, blank poses, unless it is an original prop or model the artist is testing. But I think the wording needs to be looked at to allow those of us who actually do put an effort into their renders--original models or not--to continue to contribute.
You can still post Poser images if you create your own models and/or do significant work to make them stand out. E.g. "User Created Content".
The problem is, however, too many people are just plunking down the default models, buying a plug-in and/or using pre-made and/or game-ripped models (e.g. Krystal). If you created your own model, or even modified significantly from the original, that would be permissible. However, it would have to be unique. Simple taking Part A and Part B and sticking them together like Mr. Potatohead wouldn't be sufficient.
Charlie_Kitsune
Member
I've seen photography of hyper manga human girls sculpts. Is it acceptable with upload policy?
marmelmm
Hat...'Stache...Legend.
H'm. How about if you add snappy dialogue? In that case, it's not so much that Mr. Potatohead is there, it's that he's making a trenchant statement about life, love and the human condition...
Anyhoo, quicky question re: fill-in-the-blank memes. Here's one that I created and that I'm curious about:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1886218/
Now, the gag is that the image is repeated multiple times, along with a couple of punchlines at the end. In this case, the image is covered under "for you", so that's not a problem. My question is: If the repeated image is, say, the aforementioned Mr. Potatohead, does the composition as a whole qualify? In terms of art, the artist wouldn't have actually drawn anything; the art would come in terms of the writing involved.
Don't need a quick answer on this one, as I'm more idly curious than anything else.
Keep up the good work!
-MMM-
(BTW, the new userpage gallery update rawks.)
Imago
New Member
Well, the wording is hard to follow. And by it a lot of people are going to derive that "Poser" art isn't allowed anymore.
But I from what I read all the time. A lot of people say over and over again "3D isn't art". You hear it mostly from traditional artists. But 3D is the future, but telling people that you can't post that here because it's not your model. But I've seen a lot of good nah, great artwork done by 3D artists using Poser and only using the models they had available to them none of their own stuff. But that's over at Renderosity and that's a predominately human based 3D art site.
But a lot of traditional artists say 3D not being art is wrong. Almost all cartoons now are done on computers and more and more are going to 3D and using cell-like shading on them to make them look drawn. Saying Poser is nothing more then a toy is also wrong. It is an art tool like any other art tool be it Photoshop, Flash, Paintshop, or whatever. And not everyone is a modeler. And really saying no more Poser stuff if you don't put your own content in to it is a little wrong. Because I mean if you sit down to make a picture and use stuff that you didn't make you do put something else in to it. You put your heart in to it. You put your emotions in to it. You put a lot in to it that wasn't there, because without the person behind the computer creating it then it would never have been made.
Maybe it's just me or to me but traditional pen/ink/pencil/etc artists tend to look down their muzzles at 3D artists. Saying, "Oh, that isn't art. Why is this allowed here?" But without 3D artists and animators there wouldn't have been any movies like Kung Fu Panda, Wall-e (or whatever), Ice Age 1 and 2, Shrek, etc. So, if they had all listened to other artists who said, "3D isn't really art it's just posing a model." Then the animators wouldn't have animated those movies. If they had listened to the traditional artists who said, "Models aren't an art form!" Then the 3D modelers wouldn't have ever made the models to be animated by the animators.
So, I guess by telling everyone that they can't use Poser unless they created content for it. (texture, model, etc.) Then you'll probably lose a lot of good artists that may be up and coming. Sure you do see people doing bland tasteless renders, but I see a lot more scribble art by traditional artists then I see renders.
But in the end it's all up to the site and we all bow to the will of the management. I for one use Lightwave now and have to import, rig, and fur up Poser models so yeah, I guess my 3D can be considered user created, because Poser doesn't have fur. (Unless you count that sorry excuse for a hair room that doesn't work or look good at all.) Sadly when you start dictating what is art and what is not you miss out on a lot of great stuff.
*bows to the will of the management and walks back to my gallery.*
But I from what I read all the time. A lot of people say over and over again "3D isn't art". You hear it mostly from traditional artists. But 3D is the future, but telling people that you can't post that here because it's not your model. But I've seen a lot of good nah, great artwork done by 3D artists using Poser and only using the models they had available to them none of their own stuff. But that's over at Renderosity and that's a predominately human based 3D art site.
But a lot of traditional artists say 3D not being art is wrong. Almost all cartoons now are done on computers and more and more are going to 3D and using cell-like shading on them to make them look drawn. Saying Poser is nothing more then a toy is also wrong. It is an art tool like any other art tool be it Photoshop, Flash, Paintshop, or whatever. And not everyone is a modeler. And really saying no more Poser stuff if you don't put your own content in to it is a little wrong. Because I mean if you sit down to make a picture and use stuff that you didn't make you do put something else in to it. You put your heart in to it. You put your emotions in to it. You put a lot in to it that wasn't there, because without the person behind the computer creating it then it would never have been made.
Maybe it's just me or to me but traditional pen/ink/pencil/etc artists tend to look down their muzzles at 3D artists. Saying, "Oh, that isn't art. Why is this allowed here?" But without 3D artists and animators there wouldn't have been any movies like Kung Fu Panda, Wall-e (or whatever), Ice Age 1 and 2, Shrek, etc. So, if they had all listened to other artists who said, "3D isn't really art it's just posing a model." Then the animators wouldn't have animated those movies. If they had listened to the traditional artists who said, "Models aren't an art form!" Then the 3D modelers wouldn't have ever made the models to be animated by the animators.
So, I guess by telling everyone that they can't use Poser unless they created content for it. (texture, model, etc.) Then you'll probably lose a lot of good artists that may be up and coming. Sure you do see people doing bland tasteless renders, but I see a lot more scribble art by traditional artists then I see renders.
But in the end it's all up to the site and we all bow to the will of the management. I for one use Lightwave now and have to import, rig, and fur up Poser models so yeah, I guess my 3D can be considered user created, because Poser doesn't have fur. (Unless you count that sorry excuse for a hair room that doesn't work or look good at all.) Sadly when you start dictating what is art and what is not you miss out on a lot of great stuff.
*bows to the will of the management and walks back to my gallery.*
Electrocat
New Member
Hey, there ^^
Nice updating on the rules.
I love FA way too much to get banned, so I just want to check on something about uploading mutliple verisons.
You said an inked and coloured version is fine to upload.
What I do with my comissions is upload a concept / rough, lineart, coloured and fluffy / fx version.
When the final version is up, I move the other versions of the submission to my scraps. Should I remove the previous versions from scraps completely or make a progress collage out of the roughworks?
Sorry to bother ya ^^
Nice updating on the rules.
I love FA way too much to get banned, so I just want to check on something about uploading mutliple verisons.
You said an inked and coloured version is fine to upload.
What I do with my comissions is upload a concept / rough, lineart, coloured and fluffy / fx version.
When the final version is up, I move the other versions of the submission to my scraps. Should I remove the previous versions from scraps completely or make a progress collage out of the roughworks?
Sorry to bother ya ^^
Kefan
Centaur of Attention
What I feel like here--and I feel sure this isn't your intent--is that those of us who are actually using applications like Poser to try to generate something artistic are being swept up along with the users who are abusing the applications to just post mindless junk.
The simple fact is, I don't have the eye for modifying or creating models--I've tried, repeatedly, and I've failed. They look like transporter accidents on Star Trek. My textures invariably look like muddy plastic wrap. There's something to doing it right that I don't 'get', and that I desperately wish I could 'get'.
And what counts as 'original modification'? I think about hair type, hair, skin, eye and fur color, expression, build, height and weight, whether to add decorations or not--all of these things come out of a library of pre-existing props and objects. Are these modifications? To some extent, I think so. It's the process of building a character out of a prop.
The DAZ/Zygote centaur is a prop. When I add hair, color, skin tone, eye color, set different reflectivity parameters for the skin, the fur, and the hooves, put a transparency map on the tail, and then add jewelry and/or props, then slightly alter the head shape to get a 'look' that I'm after, soften or sharpen individual facial features and set an expression, and then create a milieu for him to exist in, even a simple one, that's a character.
I will argue that it's the difference between taking a box of Legos and making a tower of blocks, or taking a box of Legos and making a roughly accurate model of your house complete with windows, doors and rooms. It's not the tools, it's what you do with them.
So while I'm limited largely by what pre-exists (my telescope and theremin props notwithstanding), that does not limit my imagination. What I try to do to make my work stand out is try to say something with the image, not with the model.
I'm no genius, but neither am I just throwing things up and going 'hur hur hur look nekkid', and I feel as though I'm being lumped together with those who are.
I realize this is a problem, but no more than the photography problem. If you can separate 'bad' photos from 'good', you can separate 'bad' Poser from 'good'. Standing up a model without even changing the background or ground color, enlarging the breasts, and posting it under the title 'BEWBZ!!1!' is clearly bad Poser.
We don't all do that, though. I think there's a way for a little middle ground.
artonis
New Member
Well, I'm sorry, I am 3D artist, and I am GLAD about the new Poser rules. 3D art is art, yes... When you actually made it yourself.
I'm generally approving of every rule that is meant to improve quality.
I mean, it really isn't that hard to turn on the light and maybe an extra lamp when you photograph something. Or reshoot it when it turned out blurry. Or don't use lined, crinkled paper. Or put a damned shirt on when you post a photo of yourself.
Thumbs up!
I'm generally approving of every rule that is meant to improve quality.
I mean, it really isn't that hard to turn on the light and maybe an extra lamp when you photograph something. Or reshoot it when it turned out blurry. Or don't use lined, crinkled paper. Or put a damned shirt on when you post a photo of yourself.
Thumbs up!
Ranard Lightningfall
New Member
I want you to DEINE made yourself.
AkiraShima
no one of importance.
Sigh... so about this death thing. does this mean that photographing skulls of animals and other such things (like skeletons and fossils) is now banned. since no one else seems to care about such things i figured i would have to make an forum account and ask.
and so now one cannot upload more than three images a day? i have not really seen a good answer on that either. I have read things that have skirted the question in ways but not just a simple That many a day and no more. of course this would affect me in more than one way. since i paint on lanterns which can have upwards of 6 images taken of one to see all the details on a lantern as a three dimensional work on a sphere. ignoring if i do any details on the top and bottom.
and so now one cannot upload more than three images a day? i have not really seen a good answer on that either. I have read things that have skirted the question in ways but not just a simple That many a day and no more. of course this would affect me in more than one way. since i paint on lanterns which can have upwards of 6 images taken of one to see all the details on a lantern as a three dimensional work on a sphere. ignoring if i do any details on the top and bottom.
ohtar
Overworked & Underpaid
by 'made yourself' I would assume the meaning is literal.
There's taking a pre-made model and posing it for a picture, then there's creating a model from the bottom up and using THAT for your picture.
Anyone with poser software and a basic knowledge of the program can take a model, dress it, paint it up a bit, and make it hump a chair. It takes skill to create the model from scratch.
Kitoth
Member
Ok I myself don't have to be concerned about what i submit because i always get the artists permission first.
But there is a matter of deep importance to me. I know and watch three Fa users and my concern is for them. Now you mentioned "poser" And i admit I am not familiar with it, but tehre are 5 users I watch and enjoy what they post immensely but my concern is that they will be forced to remove their posts and leave FA I want to list them because I want to stand behind them if they now violate that part of the updated terms.
Jason Canty: I do not know what he sued but he does 3d style stuff and I for one do not want to see him pushed out because of this new rule.
Daymond42: He works in a similar fashion as Jason Canty does and they even to colabs together. I do not want to see him forced of FA either.
Imago: Another fur who does similar work. He has to me his unique style like the other two listed and I do not want to see him forced out.
GabrielSabien: He is another one who does 3d stuff and again not sure what they use but again I rather not them get attacked and leave Fa.
AngelFyre: She is a great and close friend to me she uses Daz and there again she does 3d stuff.
There would have been a 6th name but he already removed all his stuff because he was angry that he would have to eventually remove his stuff so for now he is gone.
i hate to say this Dragonner but that part of the new ToS either should be heavily debated, removed, or modified So if it is an original idea whether it is in a way fan art it can be allowed to now be touched. If one on my contact list already removed his stuff and might leave Fa I imagine as others who do 3d art will also leave if they are in violation. Fa is supposed to be a fur friendly site and you know as well as i do that most human-like 3d art always has some base for any program at least all the ones i've seen.
So please re-think this and give all those i mentioned as other who also do 3d art know they are welcome here.
But there is a matter of deep importance to me. I know and watch three Fa users and my concern is for them. Now you mentioned "poser" And i admit I am not familiar with it, but tehre are 5 users I watch and enjoy what they post immensely but my concern is that they will be forced to remove their posts and leave FA I want to list them because I want to stand behind them if they now violate that part of the updated terms.
Jason Canty: I do not know what he sued but he does 3d style stuff and I for one do not want to see him pushed out because of this new rule.
Daymond42: He works in a similar fashion as Jason Canty does and they even to colabs together. I do not want to see him forced of FA either.
Imago: Another fur who does similar work. He has to me his unique style like the other two listed and I do not want to see him forced out.
GabrielSabien: He is another one who does 3d stuff and again not sure what they use but again I rather not them get attacked and leave Fa.
AngelFyre: She is a great and close friend to me she uses Daz and there again she does 3d stuff.
There would have been a 6th name but he already removed all his stuff because he was angry that he would have to eventually remove his stuff so for now he is gone.
i hate to say this Dragonner but that part of the new ToS either should be heavily debated, removed, or modified So if it is an original idea whether it is in a way fan art it can be allowed to now be touched. If one on my contact list already removed his stuff and might leave Fa I imagine as others who do 3d art will also leave if they are in violation. Fa is supposed to be a fur friendly site and you know as well as i do that most human-like 3d art always has some base for any program at least all the ones i've seen.
So please re-think this and give all those i mentioned as other who also do 3d art know they are welcome here.
Ranard Lightningfall
New Member
I heard about this, and I could not stay placid over it. Trying to do this to the poser/DAZ users AGAIN?
For the love of little green apples.... >.<
Look, I'm ALL for keep things quality. But this was exactly the sort of bull crap that made me pull my gallery and go into hiding.
What MAKES the art is as important then what goes INTO it.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/950026/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1082357/
Both use premades, I'm not sure how much 'user created content' went in to them, but your going to stop them from uploading good stuff like that just cause it was a premade model?
From a standpoint, the moment someone draws a line, moves the image, takes a picture, whatever, it becomes user created content. They 'made' the image what it was. HOW and what they used to do it is illrelevent.
For the love of little green apples.... >.<
Look, I'm ALL for keep things quality. But this was exactly the sort of bull crap that made me pull my gallery and go into hiding.
What MAKES the art is as important then what goes INTO it.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/950026/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1082357/
Both use premades, I'm not sure how much 'user created content' went in to them, but your going to stop them from uploading good stuff like that just cause it was a premade model?
From a standpoint, the moment someone draws a line, moves the image, takes a picture, whatever, it becomes user created content. They 'made' the image what it was. HOW and what they used to do it is illrelevent.
Imago
New Member
Bah, everyone can say it takes no skill to take a model and dress it up and make it hump something. But really I've seen bad clunky animations done. Not everyone can animate something smoothly.
And yes, it takes skill to make a model, but some people do lack those skills. But it takes more then just a quick throw a model in to make a good render in Poser. You have to adjust lights. You have to adjust the model. Yeah, a lot of people will just slop crap up there. But really good Poser artists don't just throw everything on the screen and title it "FTW BEWBS!!!"
Think of it this way for a moment. Everyone had to start out somewhere even if they are a traditional artist. So, if you were just starting out with your pen and paper and posted something and were told, "You can't post that here because it doesn't have *fill in whatever here*" Would you stop drawing? Would you look for a better place to show off your art? Or would you just conform and draw what you were told.
I've seen more then my share of scribble work here things that look like they took maybe 10 seconds to draw and maybe 5 to scan and then 20 to post. But I don't see anyone saying, "No more scribbles because it's not "real" art."
I guess the whole thing is biased towards wanting traditional artists more then 3D artists. And even though Poser is an easy to use program it does take skill to make a beautiful picture come out of it. Singling out Poser artists is like a witch hunt.
And now, ask yourself... What other art form is next on the chopping block?
What we all need is an example of what is and isn't allowed, because wordy tirades tend to end up misconstrued.
Edit -- And sadly my friend Ranard has informed me that he can no longer post in the forums. So, I'm going to leave what I said about what art form is next lest I be next to be silenced but in life there is always something you don't want to hear but if you silence everyone with a different opinion then you are staying very closed minded and not being very open to other people's views or opinions. Well, if I guess if it stands that 3D isn't going to be allowed here, then everyone can still see my art on Deviant Art under the name Imago3d. *shaking head* Sad state of affairs and sadly I believe a lot of great artists will be gone because of this. If you don't use pencil and paper then you're not a real artist I suppose... At least in some people's minds. --
And yes, it takes skill to make a model, but some people do lack those skills. But it takes more then just a quick throw a model in to make a good render in Poser. You have to adjust lights. You have to adjust the model. Yeah, a lot of people will just slop crap up there. But really good Poser artists don't just throw everything on the screen and title it "FTW BEWBS!!!"
Think of it this way for a moment. Everyone had to start out somewhere even if they are a traditional artist. So, if you were just starting out with your pen and paper and posted something and were told, "You can't post that here because it doesn't have *fill in whatever here*" Would you stop drawing? Would you look for a better place to show off your art? Or would you just conform and draw what you were told.
I've seen more then my share of scribble work here things that look like they took maybe 10 seconds to draw and maybe 5 to scan and then 20 to post. But I don't see anyone saying, "No more scribbles because it's not "real" art."
I guess the whole thing is biased towards wanting traditional artists more then 3D artists. And even though Poser is an easy to use program it does take skill to make a beautiful picture come out of it. Singling out Poser artists is like a witch hunt.
And now, ask yourself... What other art form is next on the chopping block?
What we all need is an example of what is and isn't allowed, because wordy tirades tend to end up misconstrued.
Edit -- And sadly my friend Ranard has informed me that he can no longer post in the forums. So, I'm going to leave what I said about what art form is next lest I be next to be silenced but in life there is always something you don't want to hear but if you silence everyone with a different opinion then you are staying very closed minded and not being very open to other people's views or opinions. Well, if I guess if it stands that 3D isn't going to be allowed here, then everyone can still see my art on Deviant Art under the name Imago3d. *shaking head* Sad state of affairs and sadly I believe a lot of great artists will be gone because of this. If you don't use pencil and paper then you're not a real artist I suppose... At least in some people's minds. --
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