FYI - Acceptable Upload Policy (AUP) Update

[Dragoneer]

Art memes are fill in the blanks. so are they banned now?

"Fill in the blank" refers to the "caption this" style memes that people like. Anything that requires actual artistic contribution is fine.

I love FA way too much to get banned, so I just want to check on something about uploading mutliple verisons.

You said an inked and coloured version is fine to upload. What I do with my comissions is upload a concept / rough, lineart, coloured and fluffy / fx version.

You can leave them in your gallery or move them to scraps. Up to you.

Sigh... so about this death thing. does this mean that photographing skulls of animals and other such things (like skeletons and fossils) is now banned.

It's in reference to people posting images of dead animals exploded on the side of the road. A skull, if done tasteful, is fine.

and so now one cannot upload more than three images a day? i have not really seen a good answer on that either.

It really depends. When we look at flooding we look at multiple aspects of it. Is it iterations of the same or similar submission? Is it part of a series, etc? If you're uploading unique submissions then we're generally not going to say much. However, if you're uploading a dozen or more submissions in a day constantly we may give you a quick note.

I heard about this, and I could not stay placid over it. Trying to do this to the poser/DAZ users AGAIN?

http://www.sharecg.com/v/26811/poser/Krystal-HUDset-(For-Poser)?division_id=11

The rules are written to target people who just download a Poser model (e.g. Krystal) and go at it. IF YOU CREATE YOUR OWN MODELS IN POSER... then you are fine. If you are using the build in standard models, a model generator, a downloaded model (e.g. Krystal), a purchased model from DAZ and/or any sort of creature creator then is in violation.

If you create your own models you are FINE.

 

[krisCrash]

But I from what I read all the time. A lot of people say over and over again "3D isn't art". You hear it mostly from traditional artists. But 3D is the future, but telling people that you can't post that here because it's not your model.

For the love of everyone's sanity, please distinguish between mannequin 3D and 3D modelling.

3D modelling is not even remotely related to DAZ/poser/etc stuff and if you ever sat down and modelled something in 3Dsmax you would know the difference. (I recommend it. It's awesome, addictive and will give you improvement in other arts.)

These are 2 separate art forms, do not compare them, do not blanket them under "3D".

artonis: thank you!

Submissions made with renderers (e.g Poser) must contain "User created content". If there is no "User created content" in the submission, then it may not be uploaded.

Maybe it would all in all be a good idea to specify how much user created contents we're talking about. However, this discussion has been had to death. Another site I'm at tries to ban in completely, but we can't always know where people got their models if they are not recognizable.

?

Edit: oh, that's pretty much answered then yay.

 

[Kitoth]

http://www.sharecg.com/v/26811/poser/Krystal-HUDset-(For-Poser)?division_id=11

The rules are written to target people who just download a Poser model (e.g. Krystal) and go at it. IF YOU CREATE YOUR OWN MODELS IN POSER... then you are fine. If you are using the build in standard models, a model generator, a downloaded model (e.g. Krystal), a purchased model from DAZ and/or any sort of creature creator then is in violation.

If you create your own models you are FINE.

So does that mean users like Daymond, Jason canty and cujoe_da_man are going to be tossed out and have the rest stay?? what next banning all sonic based fan art. come on Dragoneer the screen shots i understood, the RL photo stuff that is good, but 3d art including fan art. And who knows how some like the names i've listed put a fan character into the submission. i mean what is its a highly edited model ? Where can you honestly drawn a line.

so many users on my watch list have put up journals debating whether to leave and go elsewhere now and I'm telling them to wait and fight this.

 

[Dragoneer]

So does that mean users like Daymond, Jason canty and cujoe_da_man are going to be tossed out and have the rest stay?

If it violates the rules, then yes.

Looking at Jason's gallery, for example, he does have a few which would be in violation. However, in regards to that, I would let people relocate them to scraps and keep the older images. However, any new images moving forward from today would come under the new rules.

come on Dragoneer the screen shots i understood, the RL photo stuff that is good, but 3d art including fan art.

Fan art is not on the chopping block. At all.

 

[artonis]

For the love of everyone's sanity, please distinguish between mannequin 3D and 3D modelling.

3D modelling is not even remotely related to DAZ/poser/etc stuff and if you ever sat down and modelled something in 3Dsmax you would know the difference. (I recommend it. It's awesome, addictive and will give you improvement in other arts.)

These are 2 seperate art forms, do not compare them, do not blanket them under "3D".

artonis: thank you!

What she said.
It's like saying, "Look, I didn't get any quick, awesome results the hard way, so I am using this software that has essentially all the hard work done already." I mean, what would you think of a 2D artist who thinks it's too hard to learn to draw and then just copy-pastes parts of other people's art, and then arranges them to a new piece, even if the original artists would allow that? Would you say they are drawing?

Seriously, work on real modelling. Yes, it is hard. Yes, it takes a while. But that is how it is with every artistic profession. It took me 15 years of work to get where I am, but you will feel oh so much better about what you do, 'cause you can seriously say, "I did all of that!".
And Poser will not help you improve with 3D art in general, after 15 years of poser work you will still be unable to model anything.


But, why bother. This discussion has been going on in 3D art for a million years and any further discussion is moot. Not that arguing with laziness ever accomplished anything. The rules are there, deal with it.

 

[straydog]

I like how lots of people, who are now offended by the new rules because it affronts on their ability to 'contribute', are so insanely butthurt over the fact that the people who run, pay for, and manage something they're using FOR FREE, want to have more control over how their resources are being used. I guess everyone forgot that using FA isn't a right, it's a courtesy/privilege/whatever. So much for looking a gift horse in the mouth, or whatever the saying is.

That said...I'm curious regarding the whole 3D thing. It seems contradictory to disallow Poser-derived art on the basis that it's not content that was created by the user (thus not 'for' or 'by' the user)...and also disallow 'mash up' audio on the same basis, while allowing photo manipulations. There's no significant difference between them---all involve taking content created by someone else and 'mashing' it together---some do so with far more effort and skill than others, but the underlying truth remains that the content being used was not made for or by the editor of them. Does lots of smudging/blurring/sharpening and use of photoshop filter overlays to simulate fur texture suddenly make it sufficiently 'user created' and thus permissible?

So why are photo manips allowed, yet Poser art and audio mash-ups aren't? Seems contradictory, especially given that photo manips involve far more potential copyright infringement problems than the others (as most are using, without permission, other peoples' photos).

 

[cujoe_da_man]

OK, I'm going to be blunt, you people are being unfair and unjust. Why?

First:
You let people post 3D images of Second Life which has all been made and needs to have people download items to place on thier character... how is that ok?

Second:
You CAN'T create your own figures IN Poser, that isn't how it works... maybe if you took the time to research something that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, you'd understand it better.

Third:
I do A LOT of my own texture work and some basic modeling of primitives to use with my figures

Fourth:
YOU artists don't create the paper and pencils you draw with... you buy them, same as me with my models. Give that a try and tell me how it works

Fifth:
3D IS ART (in any shape or form)... you have NO RIGHT to tell an artist what IS or IS NOT art... only the ARTIST can say what is ART

Sixth:
if someone asks, or if the image warrants it, I rightfully let the members of FA know that most of what I do is purchased, I never said any of the items are 100% mine and sometimes will credit with a link to said item if I remember or said item exists still.

I have already proven that I can draw and model in other programs and have posted these examples, so what you are doing IS NOT FAIR just becuase I choose a medium and a way of doing things the way I want to do them

From what I understand, just in my journal alone, three people have left/are leaving/are deleting works because they are AFRAID!

You have managed to place fear and regret... and now loathing into the hearts of the people that have bailed your asses out when the entire system went down, nice way to show thanks to those that wanted to help and cared enough to help

If you want this to turn into another Deviant Art, just keep it up, you'll get there quick

good day

 

[Kitoth]

If it violates the rules, then yes.

Looking at Jason's gallery, for example, he does have a few which would be in violation. However, in regards to that, I would let people relocate them to scraps and keep the older images. However, any new images moving forward from today would come under the new rules.

What about Cujoe and the others I mean come on Dragoneer i've got like 12 users i watch most good friends who once they read it or have already read it are wondering what the hell to do. leave and find a site that will allow them to post as they have been prior to this update, or just have them defy it and fight. I know you want this site to be better but in this case I have to say its hurting more than helping.

 

[Dragoneer]

But, why bother. This discussion has been going on in 3D art for a million years and any further discussion is moot. Not that arguing with laziness ever accomplished anything. The rules are there, deal with it.

And we're still allowing Poser to, albeit with limitations. People can not use the default models and/or downloaded models. Yes, it will anger some people.

I'm not asking anybody to learn how to create Inverse Kinetics chains (and if anybody has to look up that that means you have *NO* idea what 3D is), but you should at least create your Poser model from scratch and/or create something unique, and not by using the Dragoncreator, downloading a new model from DAZ or using freebies e.g. the Krystal model. Make something unique.

 

[cujoe_da_man]

but you let people using Second Life to post pics that are ALL default models? That makes a whole lot of sense. What about manips? I see them all the time, isn't that copyright infringement when someone takes a porn picture and changes it? If they have permission, that's one thing, but they have to prove it, right? At least I tell people where my work comes from

 

[softpaw]

"Fill in the blank" refers to the "caption this" style memes that people like. Anything that requires actual artistic contribution is fine.

You may want to clarify that in the policy, then, because it seems that quite a few people thought that the new policy refers to the type of art memes requiring one to draw a number of different doodles (which are "filling in the blanks").

 

[cujoe_da_man]

and now you're gonna start silencing us?

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/594788/

when did this become a dictatorship all of the sudden?

 

[Dragoneer]

You may want to clarify that in the policy, then, because it seems that quite a few people thought that the new policy refers to the type of art memes requiring one to draw a number of different doodles (which are "filling in the blanks").

Excellent point. I renamed that to "add your own caption" to make it more clear as to the intent.

 

[ohtar]

Bah, everyone can say it takes no skill to take a model and dress it up and make it hump something. But really I've seen bad clunky animations done. Not everyone can animate something smoothly.

lol never said it had to be done WELL.
XD

 

[Dragoneer]

and now you're gonna start silencing us?

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/594788/

when did this become a dictatorship all of the sudden?

Actually, looking at his account... I don't know how he was even able to post to the forums at all because his account was set to "Users Awaiting E-mail Confirmation" which does not give posting access. He never confirmed his account. I set his user setting to "Registered User" in the system.

I do not censor/ban people simply for having an alternative viewpoint. You can go back and ask any of the posters in the Fractals thread, the forum Poser thread, etc. I have not now, nor ever, censored somebody for disagreeing with me. For violating FA rules? Yes. For disagreeing with me or expression a different viewpoint? No.

 

[ohtar]

"Fill in the blank" refers to the "caption this" style memes that people like. Anything that requires actual artistic contribution is fine.

aaah ok. just wanted to make sure.

 

[Tachyon]

Maybe it's just me or to me but traditional pen/ink/pencil/etc artists tend to look down their muzzles at 3D artists. Saying, "Oh, that isn't art. Why is this allowed here?" But without 3D artists and animators there wouldn't have been any movies like Kung Fu Panda, Wall-e (or whatever), Ice Age 1 and 2, Shrek, etc. So, if they had all listened to other artists who said, "3D isn't really art it's just posing a model." Then the animators wouldn't have animated those movies. If they had listened to the traditional artists who said, "Models aren't an art form!" Then the 3D modelers wouldn't have ever made the models to be animated by the animators.

Of course 3D is art, any "traditional artist" who said that is an idiot. A lot of the animosity from 2D artists, I think, is because of the way 2D was hurriedly shoved aside because of the, frankly, unjustified hype surrounding 3D. 2D arguably hasn't recovered yet, and it's a shame because both forms are art in their own right and both are attractive in their own ways.

Calling 3D "the future" doesn't help.

So, I guess by telling everyone that they can't use Poser unless they created content for it. (texture, model, etc.) Then you'll probably lose a lot of good artists that may be up and coming. Sure you do see people doing bland tasteless renders, but I see a lot more scribble art by traditional artists then I see renders.

It's basically the same as saying 2D artists shouldn't upload traces. I agree that "scribble art" is of dubious merit.

 

[Tachyon]

So does that mean users like Daymond, Jason canty and cujoe_da_man are going to be tossed out and have the rest stay?? what next banning all sonic based fan art.

*crosses fingers* Oh please oh please oh please.

 

[artonis]

And we're still allowing Poser to, albeit with limitations. People can not use the default models and/or downloaded models. Yes, it will anger some people.

I'm not asking anybody to learn how to create Inverse Kinetics chains (and if anybody has to look up that that means you have *NO* idea what 3D is), but you should at least create your Poser model from scratch and/or create something unique, and not by using the Dragoncreator, downloading a new model from DAZ or using freebies e.g. the Krystal model. Make something unique.

Oh, I have no problem with Poser as long as they use models they have created, but how many do?

Also, Mr. Cujoe, I'm not sure who didn't do their research, since the tools to model your own meshes and the information on how to import them into Poser as posable figures are freely available on the wild ranges of the internet.

 

[Imago]

KrisCrash - I do distinguish between the two. I've seen both horrible stock 3D renders from poser here and great work that was rendered from Poser here also. And if you're talking to me about sitting down and modeling something. I do. I make all kinds of things in Lightwave all the time, but I don't post every little thing I do here, because I donate a lot of what I do to the 3D poser community by rigging the characters, clothes, etc. That I make so others can download them and I personally love seeing renders made with something I made. So, really, don't tell me that modeling is addictive. I already know that.



--- And SL photos are now art, but Poser renders are not. So, you'll see a rush of huskies and foxes flying the flag now.

But now I'd have to say Atonis... BS. You can use Poser and then become a 3D modeler. I started out with Poser and it got me very interested in 3D programs. To the point I only use Lightwave now. So, people using Poser can use that as a jumping off point to spark interest in 3D and later modeling. You can use Poser to get a feel for how models pose and how the link chains work. (Which was helpful to look at how the bones were laid out when I started rigging models over in Lightwave.) So, Poser is a tool just like any other tool. Saying that you can spend time with Poser and never get any better at modeling or anything else is sad closed minded thinking.

Cujoe_da_man I guess it became a dictatorship when people started disagreeing with what is and isn't art. But you're right people have to buy a lot of these models and then they have to spend time with them either making morphs or working with them. But if you're not a traditional artist then according to the new TOS you're better off taking snap shots in SL or putting up Terregen models. Because apparently that's "real" art.

This is just really sad. *starts moving all the art I can to DA and my own art gallery on my website.* Sadly, enough it all starts with this slowly other "art" forms will be pushed out. Until the only thing left is pen and ink. Should've seen this coming, though. I still remember an argument a long time ago about 3D not being art. But if 3D isn't art, then why do I get paid for it? Huh... *laughs* Must be a fluke, huh?

 

[krisCrash]

So why are photo manips allowed, yet Poser art and audio mash-ups aren't? Seems contradictory, especially given that photo manips involve far more potential copyright infringement problems than the others (as most are using, without permission, other peoples' photos).

Hmm, wouldn't it require use of one's own photos?

OK, I'm going to be blunt, you people are being unfair and unjust. Why?

First:
You let people post 3D images of Second Life which has all been made and needs to have people download items to place on thier character... how is that ok?

I understood the new rules as saying only people's "home-made" SL characters were allowed.

Second:
You CAN'T create your own figures IN Poser, that isn't how it works... maybe if you took the time to research something that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, you'd understand it better.

Most know that, and further there are tons of modelling programs out there, many of which are free.

Fourth:
YOU artists don't create the paper and pencils you draw with... you buy them, same as me with my models. Give that a try and tell me how it works

Boy have I heard this one a lot. I don't think it's a valid argument.

Fifth:
3D IS ART (in any shape or form)... you have NO RIGHT to tell an artist what IS or IS NOT art... only the ARTIST can say what is ART

3D posering is art, sure. I don't disagree with you, and it can be really pretty art too. But I can wholly agree with any art site that does not want it. It just isn't the same.

 

[cujoe_da_man]

but that's what you're doing to any of us that use Poser. Yes, I do know what IK chains are, I do know what planes are, I know what polys are, I know what rigging is, I know what vertices are, I know what UV texture maps are, I know in 3D that shapes are refered to as cube, sphere, pyramid, cylinder, etc.... shall I go on?

I have tried other programs without much success, but that doesn't mean I gave up, it takes a lot longer to make your own figure AND set up a scene than people think... I use Poser becuase I want to have fun and post pictures of some kind of fantasy creature or tell a story of some kind. When I get to a certain point, will switch to another program, maybe Cinema or even 3DMax, but until then, this is what I know NOW.

Just becuase YOU don't like it means nothing, I love art in all forms. I wish I could draw half as good as most people here, but what I can draw isn't as good as what I can do on the computer. I do know what it takes to make a good picture stand out, using the right tools and proper techniques.

If you tried to use Poser, you'd see it's more than just downloading a figure and having your way with it. That isn't to say that it's completely custom, but c'mon, you let manips all over the site, how is that even tolerated? You take an existing picture that someone else made and you change it... it is in no way different to what I do... only that I have more control becuase I'm allowed to change the figure and props the way I see fit by the vendor that made them... the only thing I can't do is charge money for it becuase they don't make that profit off the image I make, which is fine, that's part of my agreement.

When you can accept that there are more of us out there than you realize, then you might see that we're not all bad people, we're just working with what is given to us.

Tell you what, go to Renderosity, Renderotica, Animotions, and DAZ and look through the galleries, tell me what you see... there are literally thousands of artists all working together becuase they accept that art is art... no matter how it is made

 

[Cara Black]

" Submissions made with renderers (e.g Poser) must contain "User created content". If there is no "User created content" in the submission, then it may not be uploaded. Fractal and landscape generated artwork may be uploaded, within reason, provided they do not violate the Flooding Policy. "

So basicly what do we do if we have 3d stuff done just for us, aka me? do i change anything apart from havign the artist who made it for me? or am i just freaking out for no reason?

 

[straydog]

First:
You let people post 3D images of Second Life which has all been made and needs to have people download items to place on thier character... how is that ok?

I agree with you here. But the new rules also cover SL as well---if the user created the SL model, their work is permissible. If they're using 'out of the box' content, it is not. So the SL stuff isn't being treated any differently than the Poser stuff.

Second:
You CAN'T create your own figures IN Poser, that isn't how it works... maybe if you took the time to research something that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, you'd understand it better.

This is correct, you can't create objects in Poser, because Poser isn't a 3D construction program, it's 3D manipulation program.

Third:
I do A LOT of my own texture work and some basic modeling of primitives to use with my figures

If you have sufficient content in your pic that you created, then you don't have anything to worry about, do you? If the pic is mostly 'out of the box' content, then it won't be, because it doesn't fall under the by you/for you clause.

Fourth:
YOU artists don't create the paper and pencils you draw with... you buy them, same as me with my models. Give that a try and tell me how it works

Your grasping at straws here...comparing apples and oranges, really. You cannot compare the two. A pencil and paper, on their own, have no discernible content---without human imagination/creativity, that pencil won't move and nothing will end up on that paper. Poser creates its own content. A more accurate comparison would be to compare Poser to a coloring book---the content is already there--not created by the user, but the user contribute and make the picture 'their' own, depending upon their skill.

Fifth:
3D IS ART (in any shape or form)... you have NO RIGHT to tell an artist what IS or IS NOT art... only the ARTIST can say what is ART

No one is arguing that 3D isn't art. I believe the argument is that Poser art that does not contain user-created content and is thus simply manipulation of someone elses' creation, and therefore does not adhere to the by you/for you clause of the AUP.

Sixth:
if someone asks, or if the image warrants it, I rightfully let the members of FA know that most of what I do is purchased, I never said any of the items are 100% mine and sometimes will credit with a link to said item if I remember or said item exists still.

I don't think failure to give credit is an issue.

I have already proven that I can draw and model in other programs and have posted these examples, so what you are doing IS NOT FAIR just becuase I choose a medium and a way of doing things the way I want to do them

From what I understand, just in my journal alone, three people have left/are leaving/are deleting works because they are AFRAID!

You have managed to place fear and regret... and now loathing into the hearts of the people that have bailed your asses out when the entire system went down, nice way to show thanks to those that wanted to help and cared enough to help

I hardly think a handful of Poser artists "bailed" anyones' asses out. I'm sure they've contributed, but not to that extent---there are over 10,000 users on FA, after all. The biggest contributors, from what I've seen, aren't even artists at all---but people who commission a lot of artists.

Honestly, if you're that upset over it, I'm sure you can find a more appropriate venue to showcase your art---Renderosity, Renderotica, ect. But to expect a non profit website to eat the cost/effort/ect. of having to accept art that doesn't adhere to their policies just because a few people are good at it, is just ridiculous.

Honestly, VCL doesn't allow fan art---even if credit is given and it's original (ie: I drew it), they don't allow it. Should I go demand they allow it? Or should I accept that it's their site, their money, their time/effort, and find another venue for my fan art?

 

[Tachyon]

Cujoe_da_man I guess it became a dictatorship when people started disagreeing with what is and isn't art. But you're right people have to buy a lot of these models and
This is just really sad. *starts moving all the art I can to DA and my own art gallery on my website.* Sadly, enough it all starts with this slowly other "art" forms will be pushed out. Until the only thing left is pen and ink. Should've seen this coming, though. I still remember an argument a long time ago about 3D not being art. But if 3D isn't art, then why do I get paid for it? Huh... *laughs* Must be a fluke, huh?

Jesus, enough of the persecution complex. Where in the AUP does it say that 3D isn't art and shouldn't be here at all?