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God and such

Pavi

New Member
because atheists aren't open-minded now
protip: openminded != letting your brains fall out

...I never said atheists weren't open-minded. I'm not in a position to pass judgment on an entire collection of people like that.
I was just stating my personal views, and how I think people should just be satisfied with their own opinions and not attack other people if they think differently.
 

Ersatz

Banned
Banned
I agree with what Pavi said. Believe what you want, but don't try to cram it down others' throats, or you're no better than the religious types you complain about.

well it means that I'm not misguided by magical thinking, contributing to the decline of civilization
and as a vocal skeptic all around I'm actively discouraging it on others' parts
Rejecting "magical thinking" does not in and of itself make you any less of a burden on society. I've met plenty of atheists who were useless sacks of shit, and I've met plenty of religious folks who were actually useful members of society. So you're only right about one of those. Congrats on being exactly the kind of arrogant prat I was talking about, though! :D

one character fewer
Well, obviously. I'm just not sure how a bunch of non-programmers ever saw it in the first place, much less how it caught on. :V
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
I agree with what Pavi said. Believe what you want, but don't try to cram it down others' throats, or you're no better than the religious types you complain about.


Rejecting "magical thinking" does not in and of itself make you any less of a burden on society. I've met plenty of atheists who were useless sacks of shit, and I've met plenty of religious folks who were actually useful members of society. So you're only right about one of those. Congrats on being exactly the kind of arrogant prat I was talking about, though! :D

I'm not talking about productivity, I'm talking about the promotion of nonsense that motivates people to go out and cause harm to others while thinking they're doing good.

As the old saying goes, "Good people will do good, and evil people will do evil, but to get the good to do evil, that takes a religion!"

I'm confidently convinced of my position, but I'm not arrogant.

Well, obviously. I'm just not sure how a bunch of non-programmers ever saw it in the first place, much less how it caught on. :V

The internet is the natural habitat of computer science types. For what it's worth, I pretty much always see =/= used here and I'm familiar with != because I've done a small amount of coding myself.
 

Trance

Likes blueberries?
Originally posted by Tally

So you like religion and you also like to not believe it?

Religion is fine. I have nothing against it or anyone who practices it.

Like I said; I don't believe or disbelieve, although there are benefits to not being religious.

And downsides... What if its all true? Sucks for me! That's why i'm considered agnostic.
I just don't know. But i'm not going to completely deny the possibility...
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
And downsides... What if its all true? Sucks for me! That's why i'm considered agnostic.
I just don't know. But i'm not going to completely deny the possibility...

Pascal's Wager is seriously what's holding you back? Argument from consequences is never a good basis for deciding true or false. Plus, if there is a God, you think he's not going to see through your "fire insurance"?
 

Tally

Member
Religion is fine. I have nothing against it or anyone who practices it.

Like I said; I don't believe or disbelieve, although there are benefits to not being religious.

And downsides... What if its all true? Sucks for me! That's why i'm considered agnostic.
I just don't know. But i'm not going to completely deny the possibility...

If you are going to think like that... What if the Jews are right? Or Muslims? Or another bizzare religion?

You have to become one of everything in order to have to same insurance that you are not going to go to Hell as I do.
 

Trance

Likes blueberries?
I dunno Tally. Whatever the fuck happens, happens.

I'm going to live my life without fear of hell.

If there is something after death, i'll just have to deal. *shrug*
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
I dunno Tally. Whatever the fuck happens, happens.

I'm going to live my life without fear of hell.

If there is something after death, i'll just have to deal. *shrug*

For the record, most atheists don't "completely deny" the possibility, either. But it is relegated to the very edge of improbability, in company with Bigfoot, the world ending in 2012, and Obama being an Al-Qaeda Manchurian Candidate.
 

Trance

Likes blueberries?
For the record, most atheists don't "completely deny" the possibility, either. But it is relegated to the very edge of improbability, in company with Bigfoot, the world ending in 2012, and Obama being an Al-Qaeda Manchurian Candidate.

I know a couple who do completly deny. Its retarded... Like, they sneeze, someone says "bless you", and they freak.
I'm not contradicting you though. Its just these ones i've seen in school that seem to like to flaunt their athieism (or whatever its called) for some odd reason.
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
I know a couple who do completly deny. Its retarded... Like, they sneeze, someone says "bless you", and they freak.
I'm not contradicting you though. Its just these ones i've seen in school that seem to like to flaunt their athieism (or whatever its called) for some odd reason.

As a general rule, teenagers do not really represent the ideal of whatever they may happen to be into.
 

Trance

Likes blueberries?

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
This.

It's a seriously important observation that people just dismiss.

If not knowing about the Bible God will get you into Heaven, then the most vile, selfish thing Christians can do is spread the word.
Even going on TV or publishing books that may be read by non-Christians should be a terrible thing, because once they know, they're "choosing" not to believe it and thus get to be tortured forever.

Christians who claim that God won't punish ignorant people should be rallying to silence their faith and literally save billions of people from eternal fire.
As I said in a previous post, ignorance of God may get you off the hook for worshiping a stone statue with the head of a hawk, but it doesn't deal with the willful misdeeds that you have committed against other people. That's the whole point of Christianity: the entire reason people can find forgiveness for their sins is because Jesus paid the price for it all when He died on the cross. That's the one & only thing that sets Christianity apart from any of the other religions.

As for Hell being a place where sinners burn for all time, I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches. I believe Hell was created for the Devil and his rebellion angels, and they'll be the ones burning there for all time (deservedly so.) For ordinary people, it's a literal second death: the one place where one's body & soul can be destroyed.
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
As for Hell being a place where sinners burn for all time, I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches. I believe Hell was created for the Devil and his rebellion angels, and they'll be the ones burning there for all time (deservedly so.) For ordinary people, it's a literal second death: the one place where one's body & soul can be destroyed.

In other words, returning to the state of non-existence that existed for someone before they were born. ("I didn't exist for thousands of years before I was born..." - I forget who said that.)

Compared to the fundie version of everlasting fire and brimstone, eternal oblivion actually doesn't seem so bad - which is why the fundies push the fire and brimstone (with extra torture) every chance they get.
 

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
In other words, returning to the state of non-existence that existed for someone before they were born. ("I didn't exist for thousands of years before I was born..." - I forget who said that.)

Compared to the fundie version of everlasting fire and brimstone, eternal oblivion actually doesn't seem so bad - which is why the fundies push the fire and brimstone (with extra torture) every chance they get.

Because they're filthy savages that like that kind of thing?
 
J

Jelly

Guest
So, I've noticed from time-to-time (and this is mostly unrelated, but since this thread is all over the place) on the forums that people refer to non-Catholics as not true Christians as a way to rebuke all other sects as being convenient liars so they can more easily just ignore them or whatever they want
and like
whats up with that
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
Because they're filthy savages that like that kind of thing?

your words

So, I've noticed from time-to-time (and this is mostly unrelated, but since this thread is all over the place) on the forums that people refer to non-Catholics as not true Christians as a way to rebuke all other sects as being convenient liars so they can more easily just ignore them or whatever they want
and like
whats up with that

And vice versa, with equal frequency.

All the True Scotsman arguments need to be put to bed. If they affirm the divinity of Christ, they're Christian, and you can just deal with their conduct.
 
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Moonfall The Fox

Resident Psycho Fox
God's not real. And if he were, the thing he could do for me is die.
 

Ersatz

Banned
Banned
I'm gonna get on a soapbox here really quick.

You know what I really hate about atheists? You guys don't have any more proof of your beliefs than the religious types. It's pretentious and self-serving (among other things) to claim you know whether there is or is not any sort of supernatural being, whether or not there's an afterlife, etc. etc., when you don't have any proof.

And I'm sorry, but all you guys on both sides need to learn that arguments and thought experiments are not now and never will be the same as cold, hard evidence. That's why I'm an absurdist--it's agosticism with the balls to laugh at everyone else.

I'd also like to add that if I really, really like one thing about Christianity, it's that nobody accepts Jesus to seem hip and edgy.

I'm not talking about productivity, I'm talking about the promotion of nonsense that motivates people to go out and cause harm to others while thinking they're doing good.
And you don't think people can use atheism as a justification for the same thing? Because, unfortunately for your argument, plenty of them can and often do.

Ohhh, that's right--the rest of us aren't supposed to judge atheists on the whole just because of the actions a few extremists take, are we? We're supposed to reserve that kind of snap judgement for the theists.

As the old saying goes, "Good people will do good, and evil people will do evil, but to get the good to do evil, that takes a religion!"
You know, a saying that's old and snarky isn't automatically right.

If you could take away religion, you'd have the exact same crapsack world, just with a lot fewer homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Chew on that for a while, Mr. Bigshot Atheist.

I'm confidently convinced of my position, but I'm not arrogant.
Oh, no. My friend, you are indeed arrogant. You're arrogant for thinking you're actually doing a damn thing to stop the decline of civilization just by sitting your fat ass in a chair and yelling "There is no god!" at people on the Internet.

The internet is the natural habitat of computer science types. For what it's worth, I pretty much always see =/= used here and I'm familiar with != because I've done a small amount of coding myself.
Hm. I used to use it on a few forums I frequented, but everyone was like "what"...
God's not real. And if he were, the thing he could do for me is die.
Or He could do something good for the rest of the world and kill your self-important ass. :D
 
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Tabasco

Member
If you could take away religion, you'd have the exact same crapsack world, just with a lot fewer homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Chew on that for a while, Mr. Bigshot Atheist.

Lol, no. Lots of people do good and charitable things without religion as their cause.
 

Ersatz

Banned
Banned
Lol, no. Lots of people do good and charitable things without religion as their cause.
Riiiiiight. Which is why so many soup kitchens and homeless shelters in the United States are run and funded largely or entirely by church congregations? And why many of of them are located either in churches or on the same patch of land as one?

Nice try, but maybe you should do a little research next time~
 
T

Tewin Follow

Guest
As for Hell being a place where sinners burn for all time, I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches. I believe Hell was created for the Devil and his rebellion angels, and they'll be the ones burning there for all time (deservedly so.) For ordinary people, it's a literal second death: the one place where one's body & soul can be destroyed.

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Revelation 20:13-15: "...hell delivered up the dead which were in them...And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."[/FONT]

The Bible disagrees.

Is it Christian to make your own (nicer) assumptions of what the Bible teaches, you know?
And doesn't that say something? You wish something kinder to happen people than God does. You have more love for people than he does and know that burning someone forever is out of order.
 
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J

Jelly

Guest
Lol, no. Lots of people do good and charitable things without religion as their cause.

Yeah, but just like liberalism and law goads bad people into acting for the common good
so does religion
or something.
 
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