Hard to cope...

[loligoo]

Hi. ;w; I know this might be silly to some people but I hope someone can relate...
THIS IS PARTLY A RANT, SO FEEL FREE TO LEAVE IF YOU DON'T WANNA READ.
​

Anyways, I wanna talk about something that's been bothering me A LOT in the art community. Designing characters.
I know that design stealing is a serious thing, I get that, I've seen it happen to many. I know an artist puts loads of effort
in their work and must be devastated seeing it being taken away just like that. It happened to me, my friends and loads
of others.

But what I find unfair is when you think of a design COMPLETELY on your own, take big pride in it and post it. Then,
someone with a similar (or not even similar) design attacks you for stealing it! I know the person doesn't know how the
design came in your head... I know they might think you actually stole it. I just think it's unfair that someone gets accused
without any proof? Especially if the character looks JUST LIKE YOU in real life (persona, fursona, ...)! I'm gonna put myself
as an example but tbh, I've seen it happen to so many people these days that almost anyone would be a good example...

Ok so: I have purple hair, blue eyes, pale (af) skin. I wear pastel goth, lolita clothing. My fave colors are purple and blue. I
have several kinks but one of them is petplay where I play the role of a kitten. I have black ears, paws and tail as petgear.
So, I made myself a fursona (who's over 3 years old now but ok): white kitten, purple hair, blue eyes, black markings on
certain places, blue insides and having an aesthetic that matches my dress-style. I find something that matches me so much,
that it's perfect to be my fursona! I happily post it and get good feedback when later-on someone attacks me for stealing their
design? I find out their page has pastel goth aesthetic too? Pastel goth literally has shades that mostly have: blue, purple, white,
black and pink. Many pastel goths dye their hair purple, blue and pink. I could find so many examples but you get the point. So...
I'm confused. What's the problem here?

Again, I UNDERSTAND it can look bad if someone has a similar design to yours! But it's not fair you're being accused of
something that's not true (but I guess that's today's society anyways, so is this rant pointless?). And not to mention this world
is FULL of artists, designers, ... where it's almost impossible to be 100% original. You can't take the right to just "claim" a certain
color palette or marking or anything. The world is so big that it's hard to be different from every single human. At least take time
to kindly ask the person about it, don't make drama online (journals, stories, comments, just stupid). Or make a small investigation
if this person is known for stealing designs or if you've seen them steal your (or someone else's) previous designs too. It's not that
hard to miss it... Plus, people seem to mix the words STEAL vs BE INSPIRED FROM.

Not to mention the art sites are being taken over by 10-year-olds (sorry it's true). Probs not on FA but still. And they are trying to
grow and explore the world of art! I've seen too many kids being bullied for no reason, just because they wanted to share their
work and progress or just be a part of the community that has the same interests! It's sad to see famous and not-so-famous people
leaving art sites, hating their art, interests, fetishes, ... in the end just because some random people decide to spam their page/notes
with hateful stuff without taking the time to even consider other options.

Does anyone else relate to this. I'm not ranting just because of personal experience. It makes me sad. To see so many cases from
so many sites. We are all allies here. FA for example... isn't it hard enough to be constantly worried if someone in public finds out
about your kinks? Or just that you're a furry? Or anything that people find "weird"? Being bullied as a freak? Isn't it nice to find a
site like this where people just get you? You can finally be yourself in a community that understands you. And then people find the
time to make MORE drama?! Like give me a break! I want to be in a safe space... a safe community.... where we can just be friends
and support eachother. I'm too big of a dreamer but is it really too much to ask to just be kind to others?

I know this is SUPER long and I might be overreacting... but I needed to get it off my chest... Thank you.

 

[PercyD]

Well, first of all-

Art sites aren't being taken over by 10 year olds. The 10 year olds have been there the entire time. I was actually one of those 10 year olds about 20 years ago back in the day on Deviant Art. I still have my old cringey account too.

That being said, thats probably the only thing I disagree with you on. It's a standard shame that people are attacking kids who are trying to get good. It doesn't help that the fur community has a certain look, a certain style, a certain 'quintessential furry' aesthetic that people will somehow mistake for design stealing.

Theres 50-eleven-million-thousand blue dogs, honey. No one is stealing your freggin design. Calm down. It's just another blue dog.

So yes, I agree, be kind to others. I would say additionally to be freggin reasonable. Everyone is so quick to try to turn things that actually aren't worth the energy into something to get outraged about. Theres so much other actual, important shit going on. Harassing some 10 year old over their similar looking blue dog is just asinine.

 

[loligoo]

Well, first of all-

Art sites aren't being taken over by 10 year olds. The 10 year olds have been there the entire time. I was actually one of those 10 year olds about 20 years ago back in the day on Deviant Art. I still have my old cringey account too.

That being said, thats probably the only thing I disagree with you on. It's a standard shame that people are attacking kids who are trying to get good. It doesn't help that the fur community has a certain look, a certain style, a certain 'quintessential furry' aesthetic that people will somehow mistake for design stealing.

Theres 50-eleven-million-thousand blue dogs, honey. No one is stealing your freggin design. Calm down. It's just another blue dog.

So yes, I agree, be kind to others. I would say additionally to be freggin reasonable. Everyone is so quick to try to turn things that actually aren't worth the energy into something to get outraged about. Theres so much other actual, important shit going on. Harassing some 10 year old over their similar looking blue dog is just asinine.

hi c: i guess ur right about the first part but i mostly meant the youtube community of artists. but anyways, it's sad how ppl have so much time to create so much drama? like it also pisses me off when a person is more famous, instantly meaning that they're more original and truthful than others?

 

[PercyD]

hi c: i guess ur right about the first part but i mostly meant the youtube community of artists. but anyways, it's sad how ppl have so much time to create so much drama? like it also pisses me off when a person is more famous, instantly meaning that they're more original and truthful than others?

I suspect that 10 year olds on DA/FA and 10 year old on YouTube have the same rough approximation. 10 year olds have a lot of energy, time, and space to do creative things. Expect that they will be all over the place on those sorts of sites.
Ommmg, I just literally had this conversation on another thread-
Just because you are popular doesn't grant you any particular power other than you're infront of a lot more eyes. Thats about as far as that goes.

 

[MissNook]

I haven't been in this situation but I can totally get your feeling. It must be quite devastating to create your sona and being called a thief without reason. I hope you'll keep your design and still be proud of it cause it's yours ^^

However I also understand the other side. They did effort to find a style that fits them and they thought it was original, and then they didn't get that it wasn't that original. They felt cheated by finding similar art. Even if they were wrong for accusing you (and I think they should take a step back and think it over), I can still get their feeling too. I hope a good talk have/can clear the misunderstanding.

I don't know if that kind of situation has increased or not because even 10 years ago, I heard and saw the same kind of situation on DA. I even remember a girl claiming her picture was stolen because the pose was the same (and I thought it was a joke at the moment).
I guess the only thing to do is to talk about it and try to not react on the impulse of the emotion.

PS: And after some thoughts, it did happen to me but for a nickname and it was quite strange. A friend said I had stolen her nickname, but really I didn't know she had that nickname and moreover, I had chosen this one because it was a part of my forename, so really I didn't get why she was so angry at me ^^" And I was quite sad because I thought it was a good nickname and I kinda felt bad about using it after that, so I changed it

 

[Rayd]

i sort of relate to this, simply because there's a lot of canine sonas, and a lot of sonas that happen to have purple/white/black color-schemes, but i can get over this part of it because i acknowledge that there's likely to be similar designs out of hundreds of thousands of sonas; it doesn't bother me as much anymore and anyone who whines about it i ignore.

though, when i gave my sona an umbrella and made his gimmick into an edgelord, i had no idea that there was already a massively popular (so popular that he's made a brand out of his sona) character that has an umbrella and similar clothing to mine, but i hadn't discovered them until about a year afterwards, which is one of the reasons i'm redesigning him, out of fear i'll be called a phony somewhere down the line. i'm far less guilty about making similar characters in color schemes and patterns, but i feel as if i unintentionally made a bootleg of the character i was talking about, lol.

 

[PercyD]

i sort of relate to this, simply because there's a lot of canine sonas, and a lot of sonas that happen to have purple/white/black color-schemes, but i can get over this part of it because i acknowledge that there's likely to be similar designs out of hundreds of thousands of sonas; it doesn't bother me as much anymore and anyone who whines about it i ignore.

though, when i gave my sona an umbrella and made his gimmick into an edgelord, i had no idea that there was already a massively popular (so popular that he's made a brand out of his sona) character that has an umbrella and similar clothing to mine, but i hadn't discovered them until about a year afterwards, which is one of the reasons i'm redesigning him, out of fear i'll be called a phony somewhere down the line. i'm far less guilty about making similar characters in color schemes and patterns, but i feel as if i unintentionally made a bootleg of the character i was talking about, lol.

Lol, giving someone an umbrella and a trench coat isn't even like... something you can copyright.
Thats like a Dr. Who character at some point, I'm sure-

 

[Rayd]

Lol, giving someone an umbrella and a trench coat isn't even like... something you can copyright.
Thats like a Dr. Who character at some point, I'm sure-

yeeahhh, but i sort of feel as if our entire character dynamic is the same as well. they're both edgy, relatively evil, wear the same fancy clothing, etc.

maybe i'm just overexaggerating, but it bothers me that there's already a much popular version of my character that people will care more about.

 

[PercyD]

yeeahhh, but i sort of feel as if our entire character dynamic is the same as well. they're both edgy, relatively evil, wear the same fancy clothing, etc.

maybe i'm just overexaggerating, but it bothers me that there's already a much popular version of my character that people will care more about.

...
Like, none of those archetypes are original. I'm sorry.

 

[Rayd]

...
Like, none of those archetypes are original. I'm sorry.

that doesn't make a lot of sense. something can't just be unoriginal by default, it's how and what you do with it. very little anthropomorphic characters are original by themselves, anyways.

 

[PercyD]

that doesn't make a lot of sense. something can't just be unoriginal by default, it's how and what you do with it. very little anthropomorphic characters are original by themselves, anyways.

Yes things can be unorginal by default. Thats what an archtype is. They are patterns of designs that everyone recgonizes. It's like the ultimate call back.
Cloaked/trench coat wearing edge lord is one of those.

 

[Rayd]

Yes things can be unorginal by default. Thats what an archtype is. They are patterns of designs that everyone recgonizes. It's like the ultimate call back.
Cloaked/trench coat wearing edge lord is one of those.

are you here just to put others down for their fursona of all possible things? i came here to relate to the OP and you're trying to sit here and tell me i'm unoriginal just because my character wears a certain piece of clothing. lol.

being as much of a writer as you say you are, you'd think you'd know there's a lot you can do with a character to make it creative despite what slate it starts out on.

 

[PercyD]

are you here just to put others down for their fursona of all possible things? i came here to relate to the OP and you're trying to sit here and tell me i'm unoriginal just because my character wears a certain piece of clothing. lol.

Not particularly, no. You had asked me how something can be unoriginal from the start and I answered.

If you are taking it that way, thats not my intention. You might need to learn how to not take things so personal or learn how to laugh at yourself. It'll improve your quality of life.

 

[Rayd]

Not particularly, no. You had asked me how something can be unoriginal from the start and I answered.

If you are taking it that way, thats not my intention. You might need to learn how to not take things so personal or learn how to laugh at yourself. It'll improve your quality of life.

you're derailing the entire point of the thread to call me unoriginal despite the thread being about coping with character insecurities. i don't know how that's appropriate.

 

[PercyD]

you're derailing the entire point of the thread to call me unoriginal despite the thread being about coping with character insecurities. i don't know how that's appropriate.

Actually, I began in the thread talking with the OP about how furry designs typically have the same beats, and it's silly to get up in arms about 'stealing designs'. Thats pretty on topic.

You are the one who convinced yourself that someone's calling you unoriginal after I answered your question. I'm not going to apologize, mainly because I feel like you're being passive aggressive and accusatory.
Lets just call this a misunderstanding and be done with it, okay?

 

[Rayd]

Actually, I began in the thread talking with the OP about how furry designs typically have the same beats, and it's silly to get up in arms about 'stealing designs'. Thats pretty on topic.

You are the one who convinced yourself that someone's calling you unoriginal after I answered your question. I'm not going to apologize, mainly because I feel like you're being passive aggressive and accusatory.
Lets just call this a misunderstanding and be done with it, okay?

i never asked a legitimate question, and even so, that's not really all that appropriate of an answer regardless. to me it sounds like you think character traits are the be-all end-all of their development, and that they're unoriginal based on those traits. not every character is that shallow, and i think it's unfair for you to make those statements when i've explained so little about the character. that's why i got offended. but fine.

 

[PercyD]

i never asked a question, and even so, that's not really all that appropriate of an answer regardless. to me it sounds like you think character traits are the be-all end-all of their development, and that they're unoriginal based on those traits. not every character is that shallow, and i think it's unfair for you to make those statements when i've explained so little about the character. that's why i got offended. but fine.

Forgive me, you didn't ask a question. You /did/ say "something can't just be unoriginal by default". Thats untrue. Archtypes are call backs. They are, by design, "unoriginal": familar beats that people pick up on to say "oh yea! That character is this way. I recognize this character type."

It has nothing to do with a merit of a character's design. I wasn't talking about that at all. What I was just saying is in regards to people (falsely) accusing others of stealing their characters: they all happen to be using the same beats.

 

[Rayd]

Forgive me, you didn't ask a question. You /did/ say "something can't just be unoriginal by default". Thats untrue. Archtypes are call backs. They are, by design, "unoriginal": familar beats that people pick up on to say "oh yea! That character is this way. I recognize this character type."

It has nothing to do with a merit or design of a character. I wasn't talking about that at all. What I was just saying is in regards to people (falsely) accusing others of stealing their characters: they all happen to be using the same beats.

i'm sorry then. i didn't really want this to be a bitter debate, and i know you have some professional experience in writing (if i can remember correctly.)

i felt at first that you were saying that those characters are inherently unoriginal. i know it can be very easy for people to make the same kind of characters, but i was a bit insecure about his design being the same as this other person, and being in the same boat as the generic OP edgelords you see all the time, and felt like i could avoid that with lucky story-telling.

i just feel that if their story/character development ties into those traits they have, that the character shouldn't be called unoriginal. unoriginal by nature? maybe, but i don't really feel like the idea of calling the entire character unoriginal based on those things alone is fair.

but, yeah, i'm sorry for taking things the wrong way.

 

[PercyD]

i'm sorry then. i didn't really want this to be a bitter debate, and i know you have some professional experience in writing (if i can remember correctly.)

i felt at first that you were saying that those characters are inherently unoriginal. i know it can be very easy for people to make the same kind of characters, but i was a bit insecure about his design being the same as this other person, and being in the same boat as the generic OP edgelords you see all the time, and felt like i could avoid that with lucky story-telling.

i just feel that if their story/character development ties into those traits they have, that the character shouldn't be called unoriginal. unoriginal by nature? maybe, but i don't really feel like the idea of calling the entire character unoriginal based on those things alone is fair.

but, yeah, i'm sorry for taking things the wrong way.

Yea, the better thing to call it is an archetype, or a trope. Neither archetypes or tropes are bad things, they help make cohesive stories with little bloat lost to trying to convey understanding.

Honestly, unless you were just changing the character for a change of pace, I think it would have been fine to keep your character the way he is. I mean, if we were gonna throw all the edgy characters with trench coats out, we'd lose half of all our media right there.

 

[Rayd]

Yea, the better thing to call it is an archetype, or a trope. Neither archetypes or tropes are bad things, they help make cohesive stories with little bloat lost to trying to convey understanding.

Honestly, unless you were just changing the character for a change of pace, I think it would have been fine to keep your character the way he is. I mean, if we were gonna throw all the edgy characters with trench coats out, we'd lose half of all our media right there.

i'm mostly redesigning him because the depressive personality of the character is rubbing off on me, and his backstory is pretty dangerously similar to some events that happened recently in my life, and it spooks me, but i also want him to be more of a believable character, while still maintaining his dark traits.

my whole idea with his design the first time around was that i wanted to balance the realism of his story, while also having dark, though unique elements. i realize now about a year after that he just ended up being something straight out of 2o'th century deviantart. it's trial and error i guess. i think with his redesign i'm going to try to give him more of an average outfit that's flexible with a variety of scenes, as well as retailer his origin story to be something more relatable, and building his story off of that, and try my best to not go overboard with whatever powers/abilities/feats i give him. i'm still trying very hard to brainstorm all of that.

but, i hogged this thread long enough. i'd love to talk about this some more in PM's if you were interested in giving me advice or whatever!

 

[quoting_mungo]

There are situations where it's somewhat justified to question whether a character is copied from someone else's, and situations where it isn't. (Using my own characters as examples in most of this because that's just how I roll.)

If a character has natural coloring, it absolutely isn't, unless there are more factors at play (eg as you say a history of character theft, particularly a pattern of copy-catting a particular person or set of people). A red fox with no distinguishing features may be exactly the character you want, and if so there's no harm in creating your character as such, but it's not going to be the most unique character that ever was.

If a character is a palette swap on natural coloring, it's still very much a "could happen by chance" thing. "I want to make a German shepherd with green instead of brown!" isn't exactly a difficult thought to come up with (though if colors are exactly eyedropper-matching, you may be justified in side-eyeing a little).

If a character has unique, unnatural markings, or very similar markings in a species/breed/coloring that has largely random markings, such as a pinto horse or calico cat (or painted dog fff), politely asking if the artist is aware of the other person is... I'd say pretty justified. I know if I saw a purple arctic fox with moon-shaped white cheek markings and white fingers and toes, I'd be a little suspicious, even if my character's markings are largely a riff on natural coloring with a palette swap - those specific markings are additions/alterations I've made that diverge from the natural markings. The larger the creative distance between the creature's natural markings and the character, the more grounds there are to be a little suspicious.

It also depends on how common the species in question is. Like, at the extreme, my male fursona is basically a bunch of animal features I like glommed together with some fantasy features as glue. The chances of someone independently coming up with the exact same set of features are minuscule to nil.

Another factor is backstory - if a character has one, and the supposedly copied character has a backstory that very much resembles it (and it's not simple enough to be described by a single page on TV Tropes), that may be grounds for some suspicion. A combination of uncommon/unique species, unnatural coloring, and similar backstory is fairly suspect even if you can't confirm a history of plagiarism.
I have a character who is a shapeshifter that often takes on and combines random features from multiple species, keeps his coloring largely black/white divided down his center line, with six magical tattoos in six different colors that were done on him against his will and serve to limit his shapeshifting powers, from a society biased against shifters, and has a pretty serious savior complex and a fire salamander buddy he takes everywhere with him. His shapeshifting ability is also temporarily sexually transmissible. The chances of someone else hitting all that by pure chance are pretty darn low, even if individual elements might not be largely original by themselves.

All that said, it's rarely if ever justified to act accusatory, or go on the offensive with torches and pitchforks. A polite question of "hey, have you seen this other character?" without directly suggesting that the character was copied is quite enough - most people don't want their characters to be too similar to someone else's, anyway. Attacking someone over character design is never going to result in anything pretty. Striving to be kind even when you suspect that someone else hasn't been isn't a poor goal to aspire to.

 

[loligoo]

for @Aprilycan @PercyD
Thanks for sharing your feelings about this topic, I appreciate it. ;w; ♥ (Also glad you maturely took care of the misunderstanding.)
But yea it's hard to be 100% original in this world, even though some ideas are more unique than others.^^
As long as the person doesn't copy a design (can take something as an inspiration though), I think everything it's fine.
If there're someone's designs you inspire from, it's also nice to mention them in your art!~
Oh and btw, April ( I dunno how to call you, sorry. ;w; ), if you need any help, lemme know, I have fun designing!

for @quoting_mungo
Hi, thanks for participating! I totally agree with your opinion, there are many cases where design theft indeed happens.
As you said, it should still be taken care of maturely and kindly, no drama is needed. Also, the whole thing you mentioned
about markings, I completely agree. I'd exclude those "popular" markings though, such as moon on a forehead or stuff like that, you
know? Some markings are also very "distinctive" for a certain style/aesthetic/theme so if two people have similar interests,
it's a breeding ground for drama of design "stealing". But overall, I think you meant the entire combination of markings a
certain artist uses? This is when it's rather shady if someone has a similar combination to yours! ^^
The most common species here are felines and canines I'd say! It's also where most of the arguments about the design theft
happen. Sometimes it's also kinda sad to see a grown-up making drama towards a child when things could be easily handled
maturely... not to mention they're showing a bad example of adult behavior towards someone young... Just my opinion though.

 

[loligoo]

for @MissNook
Hii ♥ Thanks for joining this lil chat. I can't disagree on what you said, at least from my perspective! I also dunno about the
10 years ago thing, it's possible it was the same back then but I think art was a lil more "rare" before? You can see that when
older accounts have a lot more followers than newer ones and most of their supporters are from years ago. I find it kinda sad
since it's harder for newer artists to get started. I'm not saying older account don't deserve the support but many newer artists
don't even get noticed and have a huge potential. I also noticed dA and fA being very inactive (besides the older members)?
Unfortunately, majority rather spend its time on phones, meaning Instagram/Twitter are a bigger hit... It could be just my view
of the things though.
Anyways, sorry that happened to you! I literally saw a similar thing on Youtube. A girl used her last name as a username and was
attacked for copying a name from a famous animator. She was bullied so hard she left all media... I felt awful for her. That famous
animator made a rant video about it a few days later, they aren't a bad person. Their fans are.

 

[quoting_mungo]

Hi, thanks for participating! I totally agree with your opinion, there are many cases where design theft indeed happens.
As you said, it should still be taken care of maturely and kindly, no drama is needed. Also, the whole thing you mentioned about markings, I completely agree. I'd exclude those "popular" markings though, such as moon on a forehead or stuff like that, you know? Some markings are also very "distinctive" for a certain style/aesthetic/theme so if two people have similar interests, it's a breeding ground for drama of design "stealing". But overall, I think you meant the entire combination of markings a certain artist uses? This is when it's rather shady if someone has a similar combination to yours! ^^
The most common species here are felines and canines I'd say! It's also where most of the arguments about the design theft happen. Sometimes it's also kinda sad to see a grown-up making drama towards a child when things could be easily handled maturely... not to mention they're showing a bad example of adult behavior towards someone young... Just my opinion though.

Yeah, obviously the whole "originality" thing is more of a sliding scale, and my breakdown was essentially just touching down at several distincive points on that scale. It basically boils down to making a detached judgment about how easily could multiple people independently come up with this idea - as you rightly point out some unnatural markings are more unique than others, and the character should primarily be considered as a whole, not individual parts.

Kindness will serve you in the vast majority of cases, and allow all parties to save face. Like, if you go off on some kid for "copying" your character, that paints you, too, in a pretty bad light. It costs you nothing to show others courtesy, and you'll come off as a more reasonable and mature individual for it.

 

[Rayd]

for @Aprilycan @PercyD
Thanks for sharing your feelings about this topic, I appreciate it. ;w; ♥ (Also glad you maturely took care of the misunderstanding.)
But yea it's hard to be 100% original in this world, even though some ideas are more unique than others.^^
As long as the person doesn't copy a design (can take something as an inspiration though), I think everything it's fine.
If there're someone's designs you inspire from, it's also nice to mention them in your art!~
Oh and btw, April ( I dunno how to call you, sorry. ;w; ), if you need any help, lemme know, I have fun designing!

you can call me April, Hytyle (my FA username), or Rayd (my fursona name), either works! i really appreciate the offer to help, but by all means, you don't have to. i'd really enjoy talking about it some in PM's, though! i have a few pretty sizeable changes in mind for his visual design as well as his character itself.