Help! (Advice needed)

[Lumakyi]

Hello all,

Back in April i purchased a fursuit. My very first one, 2,250 dollars worth. I was told i would receive updates, pics, ect. Now seeing as i gave the Artist artistic freedom aside from the species i kind of assumed things would go smoother. Doesnt seem to be the case.

Its been nearly 8 months and i have nothing to show for. Not a single update aside from them telling me they haven't started my order. No pics, not even a design sheet showing their idea they had in mind. Just alot of excuses.. They moved shop, their fur was on back order, they didn't have certain colors and had to wait, their moms in the hospital, one of their crew members was supposedly moving away and leaving but then decided not to. All this as to why things have been moving snail pace in their shop. And while i understand life happens, its been 8 months without a single real update to my order.

So i went to the seller asking for a refund and was told that they dont do refunds according to shop policy because when they get the money they buy all the supplies needed then. Im just at a loss of what to do. I feel cheated and scammed out of 2,250 dollars. Is it normal for fursuits to take this long? To be given such a run?

*Over the course of the months their shop has also ran into legal issues, however those i will not discuss.

 

[psychonautic]

If they brought the supplies right after you paid then they couldn't say they didn't have the colors needed, p bad excuse.
I would file a paypal dispute if you can, going that long without any update/progress is terrible business practice. I would also suggest only giving half payment upfront and the rest when there's clear progress.

 

[quoting_mungo]

If supplies are ordered and paid for, that portion being non-refundable makes sense and is entirely reasonable. From what I've seen a non-refundable deposit is pretty standard for fursuits for this reason. Faux fur isn't exactly cheap.

If any fursuit markers on the forum feel differently, I will defer to their expertise, but my impulse would be to ask smaller-scope, specific questions. Dig up an appropriate lineart base and ask them to use either that or their own lineart if they have it to give you an idea of what design they have in mind. Or ask them for a specific timeline of how they expect to get their backlog of work done.

Long queues seem to be relatively common with fursuits in general, due to how major projects they are and how much time can potentially be spent waiting for supplies or with other delays that would result in dead time unless the next couple of projects are already lined up.

 

[Lumakyi]

I understand a wait time. I understand life happens. Im a pretty patient person til i get the run around with excuses after excuses with not a single real update after 8 months. As i stated in my orginal post it was my first fursuit. I don't have alot of furry fandom friends and havent been to a con (yet) so i was kind of flying blind on my first order. hindsight 20/20 i now realize how naive i was being in putting so much blind trust into someone.

As far as the refund policy goes i understand the supplies portion if she actually bought them, but to deny a refund over all is what gets me. If you bought the supplies, show me an invoice atleast? i just cant imagine it costing all 2,250 dollars.

To add to the ordeal they actually shut down their shop to where you cannot access it. Just seems like to me they're running off with my money.

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

Hello all,

Back in April i purchased a fursuit. My very first one, 2,250 dollars worth. I was told i would receive updates, pics, ect. Now seeing as i gave the Artist artistic freedom aside from the species i kind of assumed things would go smoother. Doesnt seem to be the case.

Its been nearly 8 months and i have nothing to show for. Not a single update aside from them telling me they haven't started my order. No pics, not even a design sheet showing their idea they had in mind. Just alot of excuses.. They moved shop, their fur was on back order, they didn't have certain colors and had to wait, their moms in the hospital, one of their crew members was supposedly moving away and leaving but then decided not to. All this as to why things have been moving snail pace in their shop. And while i understand life happens, its been 8 months without a single real update to my order.

So i went to the seller asking for a refund and was told that they dont do refunds according to shop policy because when they get the money they buy all the supplies needed then. Im just at a loss of what to do. I feel cheated and scammed out of 2,250 dollars. Is it normal for fursuits to take this long? To be given such a run?

*Over the course of the months their shop has also ran into legal issues, however those i will not discuss.

Given the large amount of money that you're describing - I'd file a dispute with Paypal (for non-receipt of goods) - in order to get your money back, if you feel that worse has come to absolute worse (at this point) and you're not going to be getting the items / services that you paid them for.

(Assuming you paid them through the "goods and services" option) - you're covered by their escrow service when you do that - which protects buyers (such as yourself) from scammers, (which sounds like they may possibly be).

→ Make sure - that you *take screenshots* of the said conversations you had with them - (when you asked them for a refund, and they refused it), if possible.. as these screenshots can be used as evidence against them later on - (when you file your claim) as proof that you made a reasonable effort to work with them by yourself, but was unsuccessful.

** Paypal will deduct the money (that you paid them) from their Paypal account - and give you a full refund at that point.☺

To be successful with your claim - you must tell Paypal that you never received any services from them, and that you'd like a full refund, based on that.

→ The fact that they used some of the money to purchase some supplies - does not mitigate (under Paypal rules) their responsibility to provide their services in a timely manner and does not impact the refund amount in any way. (The sellers could potentially use these supplies for another customer, at a later time - which would be unfair for you to pay for - and this is how Paypal will see this issue).

*Do it sooner, rather than later* though; don't wait any longer.. as the longer you wait - the more difficult it may be to get your money back.

If they're broke and don't have the money anymore - you're still covered, under Paypal's insurance, as well - and at that point - Paypal may seek legal restitution from them to re-coup this financial loss (on their end).

But for you - once you get your refund - it'll no longer be your problem. ☺

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

Given the large amount of money that you're describing - I'd file a dispute with Paypal (for non-receipt of goods) - in order to get your money back, if you feel that worse has come to absolute worse (at this point) and you're not going to be getting the items / services that you paid them for.

(Assuming you paid them through the "goods and services" option) - you're covered by their escrow service when you do that - which protects buyers (such as yourself) from scammers, (which sounds like they may possibly be).

→ Make sure - that you *take screenshots* of the said conversations you had with them - (when you asked them for a refund, and they refused it), if possible.. as these screenshots can be used as evidence against them later on - (when you file your claim) as proof that you made a reasonable effort to work with them by yourself, but was unsuccessful.

** Paypal will deduct the money (that you paid them) from their Paypal account - and give you a full refund at that point.☺

To be successful with your claim - you must tell Paypal that you never received any services from them, and that you'd like a full refund, based on that.

→ The fact that they used some of the money to purchase some supplies - does not mitigate (under Paypal rules) their responsibility to provide their services in a timely manner and does not impact the refund amount in any way. (The sellers could potentially use these supplies for another customer, at a later time - which would be unfair for you to pay for - and this is how Paypal will see this issue).

*Do it sooner, rather than later* though; don't wait any longer.. as the longer you wait - the more difficult it may be to get your money back.

If they're broke and don't have the money anymore - you're still covered, under Paypal's insurance, as well - and at that point - Paypal may seek legal restitution from them to re-coup this financial loss (on their end).

But for you - once you get your refund - it'll no longer be your problem. ☺

BTW - if you're comfortable sharing it with us, and would like to post an update (later on) on what your results were, (in getting your money back) that'd be an interesting update to read about.

 

[Lumakyi]

BTW - if you're comfortable sharing it with us, and would like to post an update (later on) on what your results were, (in getting your money back) that'd be an interesting update to read about.

I have filed a dispute with Etsy as PayPal told me I was past the deadline for the buyer protection. Luckily for me Etsy isn’t letting this person get away with it even though I was past their deadline too thanks to the shop owner who kept pushing my orders ship date back til there was no option to dispute. I had to end up getting Etsy phone number and calling.

I will update further when I know more about the situation, they said this could take a little bit.

 

[Yakamaru]

$2,250 for a Fursuit? Yeah, I would file a dispute with Etsy too, as that's just blatant stealing/not delivering on their end of a deal.

If, in a worst case scenario you only get some or none of those $2,250 back, use this as a learning experience to be more careful in the future. Look into the reputation of other potential makers/artists, and see if they have a history of not delivering on the goods.

It's sad to see this happen, it truly is. I wish you good luck with this dispute, love. You have my support in the matter, whatever little it may mean.

 

[pippi]

Etsy was awesome when I had to file for a refund with an unreasonable seller.

Have they not even started after 8 months?? if that's the case, you're probably gonna get your refund.

 

[Lumakyi]

Yeah they

Etsy was awesome when I had to file for a refund with an unreasonable seller.

Have they not even started after 8 months?? if that's the case, you're probably gonna get your refund.

Yeah they claimed they bought supplies but haven’t started it. 8 months later.. they’re going to fight it cuz they said their shop has a no refund policy. We will see.

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

Yeah they


Yeah they claimed they bought supplies but haven’t started it. 8 months later.. they’re going to fight it cuz they said their shop has a no refund policy. We will see.

If you're unsuccessful with Etsy, and you have their physical address, and the name of the business owner - (which you should, via the Paypal transaction record) - then (if worse comes to worse) you can always retain an attorney - and then take them to small claims court.

(Assuming you're in the US) - it'd be wise to also document everything, and retain this, as the judge will ask for all of this, later on, at the hearing.

Small claims court would be where you'd probably go - as the disputed amount is under $ 10,000.

This would be a matter of "contract law" - and an attorney that specializes in this area, would be the one you'd need.

 

[Octavius]

Omg I had this exact same problem same excuse as well but with a armored cosplay. I'm currently about to bring a lawyer into my situation but I hope you manage to get your refund hun.

 

[quoting_mungo]

→ The fact that they used some of the money to purchase some supplies - does not mitigate (under Paypal rules) their responsibility to provide their services in a timely manner and does not impact the refund amount in any way. (The sellers could potentially use these supplies for another customer, at a later time - which would be unfair for you to pay for - and this is how Paypal will see this issue).

PayPal, mind, draws up their policies based on what'll run the most smoothly for them. Just noting that PayPal policy not providing for non-refundable deposits and materials costs doesn't really take into account the realities of fursuit making:
- most/all makers will have limited storage space the way larger businesses won't. Having yards of unused fur sitting around may not be feasible in their workspace, and if they need to offload some supplies to make room they're likely to have to do so at a loss
- only colors they can semi-reliably count on being requested are, like, basic black and white. The more unique the fur, the less likely it is another customer will come along that'll want it
- when a maker puts out a call for commissioners to use existing colors from their stash, they're usually doing so at a discount for the reduced choice
- most makers do not have the luxury of being able to pay forhundreds of dollars' worth of fur just to have it sitting around; again, they don't tend to be large businesses
- unless (possibly) purchased by the bolt, fabric tends to be non-refundable because it is cut.

Making a materials deposit wholly or partially non-refundable is also in part compensation for the fact that the maker's money is now tied up in those supplies.

Like, in this specific case, provided OP's account is accurate, it might be reasonable to refund part of the hypothetical deposit, since supposedly the fur is still in whole lengths (unless they requested some truly outlandish color that'll be stupidly hard to offload without incurring a loss), and the maker appears to have been negligent in their communication. But I would not consider expecting a full refund for anything requiring ordering materials reasonable in the general. If nothing else, at minimum the customer should be liable for the S&H portion of the materials cost. This also helps pay for the time that was spent on the customer's order (browsing for & ordering supplies, communicating the specifics of the commission, etc). While materials are part of it, they're not the whole reason major custom work often requires a deposit.

 

[Fallowfox]

@quoting_mungo After 8 months with no meaningful updates, the customer service has been so poor that they definitely deserve a full refund.
$2000 dollars is not small for a lot of people, and it can be soul destroying to lose hundreds of dollars to somebody who hasn't even bothered to send you an update email for almost a year.

From their position, they have no way of knowing whether materials were ever purchased, or if the 'maker' is actually just a scammer.

 

[quoting_mungo]

@quoting_mungo After 8 months with no meaningful updates, the customer service has been so poor that they definitely deserve a full refund.
$2000 dollars is not small for a lot of people, and it can be soul destroying to lose hundreds of dollars to somebody who hasn't even bothered to send you an update email for almost a year.

From their position, they have no way of knowing whether materials were ever purchased, or if the 'maker' is actually just a scammer.

I did say that in the specific case, there are good arguments for something close to a full refund. I felt it was important to note that in the general case, non-refundable deposits for fursuit makers are perfectly reasonable, though, regardless of PayPal's position on them. Part of the maker's problem is that they decided to make the whole price non-refundable in their policy, rather than allowing for partial refunds as most fursuit makers do.

 

[Connor J. Coyote]

If you're unsuccessful with Etsy, and you have their physical address, and the name of the business owner - (which you should, via the Paypal transaction record) - then (if worse comes to worse) you can always retain an attorney - and then take them to small claims court.

(Assuming you're in the US) - it'd be wise to also document everything, and retain this, as the judge will ask for all of this, later on, at the hearing.

Small claims court would be where you'd probably go - as the disputed amount is under $ 10,000.

This would be a matter of "contract law" - and an attorney that specializes in this area, would be the one you'd need.

* Btw, if you do end up in Court eventually - as a general rule, you'll both probably be going into "mutual arbitration" first, which is like an informal settlement conference - and at that meeting you may be able to negotiate a refund there, (at the table with them).. which would avoid a legal hearing altogether.

Arbitration is mandatory in some cases, so it may apply to you, also.

If you're in California, (where I live) - if you file a civil suit (or small claim) against someone, and they (or their lawyer) "fails to appear" at the hearing - then, under our State laws - you would *win* your case automatically.