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Here is a question for my fellow science furs

yes or no?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • Probably

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Probably not

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • No idea

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

Player

A (Genocidal) crusader protogen with powers
So, if humans could harness the power of a singularity and create another singularity and manage to entangle them to each other, wouldn't that be a wormhole or a teleportation device?
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
IIRC, that's not enough. Huge amounts of purely theoretical (that means, nobody knows if it exists) exotic matter would have to be used to keep the wormhole open and big enough for macroscopic objects to pass through. (Either that, or I'm just sleepy and mixing things up. ;) )

But while we're on topic (kinda), actually experiments on warp field are happening, without conclusive outcomes though.
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
Probably not because that's not how entanglement works and as far as we know nothing can violate causality. But singularities pretty much break everything so I won't say it's 100% impossible. Just very, very unlikely.

The harder question is: how you'd get anywhere near a singularity without being torn apart, hurled billions of years into the future, flash fried from the inside out by billions of years worth of cosmic radiation and ultimately crapped out as Hawking radiation (all at the same time from your point of view?)
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
...all that assuming singularities even exist as we still don't have description of gravity at quantum level. It is rather that our current theories break down at such scales and densities, giving infinity as an outcome.

Sure, that does not affect the existence of black holes, which is now proven. But their core may not be a singularity at all. There are competing concepts, such as Planck star or string fuzzball. We simply don't know.

Conversely, there might be effects and technologies that we don't know yet, which a proper working theory of quantum gravity could enable.
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
No faster than light travel, perhaps, but something close light speed travel is totally possible. You just need to have hardware on the receiving end to enable things like laser interstellar highways or even possibly something akin to teleportation (less Star Trek but more like uploading your mind and transmitting to the destination where you have a robot body ready to put it into.) Quantum teleportation may be usable as a means of secure communication to facilitate that but we're only beginning to unlock that technology and despite what you may read about that in the press it'd still be limited to light speed.
 

Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
So, if humans could harness the power of a singularity and create another singularity and manage to entangle them to each other, wouldn't that be a wormhole or a teleportation device?

Teleportation. The wormhole would be a colapsing of the space-time due to gravity and would connect the physical points of the 2 locations, like Mambi's portals, but you're describing quantum entaglement. That's mimicry of the 2 particles but they remain separate particles so this is more like a fax machine for reality.
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
IIRC there's nothing about wormholes that necessitates time dilation. Within their theory they could really be used as portals, providing convenient shortcuts through astronomical distances. Provided you can get that exotic matter, of course.

But there's a different problem. The same wormhole theory could be used to connect different points in time, potentially messing up the causality and introducing time paradoxes.
 

Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
IIRC there's nothing about wormholes that necessitates time dilation. Within their theory they could really be used as portals, providing convenient shortcuts through astronomical distances. Provided you can get that exotic matter, of course.

But there's a different problem. The same wormhole theory could be used to connect different points in time, potentially messing up the causality and introducing time paradoxes.

Most wormholes are theorized to be created by deformation of space-time due to intense gravity. A side-effect of said bending is also time slowing, as seen as black holes and other heavy objects are shown to do. But even then, the time would only slow and not reverse so no paradoxes. At worst you leave tomorrow and arrive when the universe has already accelerated 100 years later.
 

Pomorek

Antelope-Addicted Hyena
Most wormholes are theorized to be created by deformation of space-time due to intense gravity. A side-effect of said bending is also time slowing, as seen as black holes and other heavy objects are shown to do. But even then, the time would only slow and not reverse so no paradoxes. At worst you leave tomorrow and arrive when the universe has already accelerated 100 years later.
We must be using different sources, or there's something I didn't catch. As I'm not at home currently, I'm limited to using Wikipedia on my phone for my scientific forays. And there, both traversable wormholes with no mention of time dilation, and possible ways to turn one into a time machine are outlined.
 

NetanDakabi

people call me queen
i don't like these kinds of questions. they scare me.
 

Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
We must be using different sources, or there's something I didn't catch. As I'm not at home currently, I'm limited to using Wikipedia on my phone for my scientific forays. And there, both traversable wormholes with no mention of time dilation, and possible ways to turn one into a time machine are outlined.

It's due to the way they are formed. The wormhole itself it just a tunnel linking the 2 points, and the quantum entanglement is not a factor in wormhole discussions. Since the best guess is extreme gravity like a black hole creating the deformation linking the points, and gravity is already known to slow time (measured and proven), linking the 2 points means logically a wormhole would have extreme gravity at the neck.

Frankly, the idea of a "traversible wormhole" is just a theory at this point anyway, and pretty much ignores the physics of how it;s wormed to get into the discussion at all. <lol>
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
It's long been proven mathematically that anything that allows for faster than light travel can be used to travel in time. The details of how you travel faster than light are irrelevant. Wormholes, FTL teleportation, warp drives, infinite improbability drives... they all would allow you to travel back in time.

The trick is somehow moving faster than light. While something like a wormhole could do it, we've never observed one in nature and we're pretty sure if they do exist they'd be microscopic, unstable and collapse almost as soon as they're formed. Since wormholes may not exist at all and creating one that we can traverse seems to require impossible stuff like negative mass, I expect they'll remain an interesting mathematical theory that only exists in science fiction.
 

FaroraSF

Active Member
I think entanglement has more to do with the conservation of energy than linking two physical spaces. Like when two particles are created they have to have opposite spins because the momentum has to equal what it was before (0) they were created, and if you know the spin of one then you would know the spin of the other.

At least that's what I remember on the topic from all the videos I watched on quantum theory several months back.
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
I think entanglement has more to do with the conservation of energy than linking two physical spaces. Like when two particles are created they have to have opposite spins because the momentum has to equal what it was before (0) they were created, and if you know the spin of one then you would know the spin of the other.

At least that's what I remember on the topic from all the videos I watched on quantum theory several months back.
No, it's more about quantum information than energy. Being entangled isn't like a state that can be checked, because checking it changes it. It can thought of as two states of being, which formerly could exist independent of each other, after having an interaction now have merged into an interdependent quantum state. If one measures one entangled particle you can infer what the state of the other particle must be at that time. Once measured, the two are no longer dependant on the other so more than one measurement yields no more useful information about the other particle.
 

FaroraSF

Active Member
No, it's more about quantum information than energy. Being entangled isn't like a state that can be checked, because checking it changes it. It can thought of as two states of being, which formerly could exist independent of each other, after having an interaction now have merged into an interdependent quantum state. If one measures one entangled particle you can infer what the state of the other particle must be at that time. Once measured, the two are no longer dependant on the other so more than one measurement yields no more useful information about the other particle.

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

"Measurements of physical properties such as position, momentum, spin, and polarization performed on entangled particles can, in some cases, be found to be perfectly correlated. For example, if a pair of entangled particles is generated such that their total spin is known to be zero, and one particle is found to have clockwise spin on a first axis, then the spin of the other particle, measured on the same axis, is found to be counterclockwise. However, this behavior gives rise to seemingly paradoxical effects: any measurement of a particle's properties results in an irreversible wave function collapse of that particle and changes the original quantum state. With entangled particles, such measurements affect the entangled system as a whole. "

From what I gather you can't link particles together manually, they are entangled upon creation. Observing one will collapse the wavefunction of both particles. I'm not sure what happens to the particles afterwards, I would assume that they would still be entangled.
 

contemplationistwolf

The Restless Maverick
From what I gather you can't link particles together manually, they are entangled upon creation. Observing one will collapse the wavefunction of both particles. I'm not sure what happens to the particles afterwards, I would assume that they would still be entangled.
I don't think any of that is the case. I'll be speaking from the perspective of quantum computing, as I think it makes the nature of quantum mechanics easier to understand, plus it's a pretty incredible application of that.

For quantum objects (particles, qubits, etc.) to get entangled, they just have to interact. In quantum computation it's simple to do:
Suppose we have two unentangled qubits, first in state
and the second in state
Capture2.PNG
. We just need to apply a controlled NOT gate with the first qubit being the control and the second being the target, and we get a maximally entangled system:
Capture3.PNG

Where measuring first qubit as 0 will always mean that second will be 0 as well, and same with measuring 1.

On the other hand, (completely) measuring one qubit in an entangled system doesn't necessarily 'collapse the wavefunction' of the other qubit. Suppose we have an entangled 2 qubit state:
Capture4.PNG

Suppose we measure the first qubit:
If the measurement outcome is 0, then the second qubit will be left in a state:
Capture5.PNG

If the measurement outcome is 1, then the second qubit will be left in a state:
Capture6.PNG


Either way, the second qubit will still be in an 'uncollapsed' quantum state, and the two qubits will be unentangled after the (complete) measurement of just one of them.

BTW, it's also possible to perform partial measurements, which don't 'collapse' the wave function but do 'reduce' it. In fact, what I showed here is an example of a partial measurement in a 2 qubit system.
 

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