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Honest advice, feedback and critique please.

Super-Dough-Mutt

New Member
I know I don't use these forums that much, but...
Recently I got into a bit of an argument with a user over my art style and trying to receive their advice that they gave without any sort of extra elaboration or tact. It's a long story, I'll just post links to the journals here for context:
www.furaffinity.net: Sorry for this late night journal but... -- Super-Dough-Mutt's Journal
www.furaffinity.net: You know what, eff it -- Super-Dough-Mutt's Journal
(Please do not harass this user over their opinion and such)

I've been having quite an epiphany lately thinking that maybe my art really is crappy, and I feel like I don't deserve all the support I've gotten because I'm bad at it...

But I do want to get better at art, but I don't know where to start or in this case where to start over at. I'm 30yrs old and I feel like I wasted my time 12 years on FA getting nowhere.

But anyway I don't mind getting honest feedback on my 3 most recent works, what I could do to get better and what resources to use. Also some critique as well. I do want to be a better artist and I don't want to be stuck at the level that I'm on.

1563496815.super-dough-mutt_the_loosh_is_loose_resized.png

1563880392.super-dough-mutt_lucius_summer_wear_fa_size.png

1564040263.super-dough-mutt_lucius_wet_in_the_rain_fa_size.png
 
Hia!
I really like what you have going on with the face. You seem to have gotten that down pretty well. And your anatomy is pretty good too! Here's some advice where I think you could improve.

I feel like the feet could be worked on a bit, the perspective in the first and last piece is a bit flat and distorted. With practice that can change though!
I also think that cell shading would look really nice with your art style to give the art more depth and make the viewer look at it longer because, well, there's multiple things to notice! Often times when I use cell shading and lighting I make three or four different layers of it, each one getting darker/lighter to make the illusion of a gradient.
And finally, I feel like thicker like art would suit your toony artwork more, or at least a thick outline on the perimeters of the character to make them stand out.

Hope this helps!
 

MissNook

Well-Known Member
Hi!

I agree with Slimy boy about the faces. They have nice expressions and works well. I also agree about cell shading ^^
For the anatomy part, I think that you may want to work on both feet/hands and elbow/arm crease parts. They are often wonky. Even if they're not the focus of the eye, being extra careful with them for a while would help you to make them emphasis the poses and expressions of your characters. Of course, don't hesitate to use references :)

I saw that one of your journal was about doing a comic. My opinion is that you should really do it. Making a comic will help you improve!
I have to say it can be frustrating and time consuming so don't hesitate to begin with short comics. Try different angles and way to frame as you go and you'll learn new things.

Please note that often to improve in art you have to go out of your comfort zone. You're drawing the same kind of characters (I went to saw your previous account too) and often the same kind of poses. You seem to add backgrounds and diversity recently so keep doing that and you'll improve.

Lastly, I think you're already in the right direction so just keep going and don't forget to have fun!
 

Drawmander

I draw and I mander - axolotl
Hello!

I went and looked at the links you shared, and it seems like a lot of your discouragement may be coming from a heckler. It’s always good to improve, but never let a clown make you quit!

You’re in search of some solid, non vague criticism, so I’ll do my best to do that while keeping your art style in mind.

Please know that I have no ill intent in doing this, and my objective isn’t to shame or ‘redraw your art,’ but to show you how you can improve through fundamentals.

Okay, so for a critique, I’m going to focus on this image:
1563880392.super-dough-mutt_lucius_summer_wear_fa_size.png

1. Arm shape

For your larger characters, I see you that you put a proportional amount of meat on all of their bones. This is a great place to start! However, in this image, and in some of your other artwork, I notice that the structure of the arms are slightly off when bent.

Primarily, at the bend of the arm. For the human body, the crease at the top of the arm lines up directly with the elbow underneath. However, I see that you often put the elbow at the bottom of the forearm, and then add extra flesh under the crease of the arm.

Another thing I noticed is that you place either muscle mass or flesh in chunks on the underside of the arm. However, in anatomy, the upside of the arm is made up of rolls, while the underside is made up of smooth slopes. For that reason, you may want to focus on how the shape of the arm changes depending on which side of it is prominent. (This is more specific to this drawing and not your others, but it’s something to watch out for).

Bellow I’ve highlighted the original arm, and next to it an arm where the crease is directly above the elbow/the arm is smooth underneath:
1-CCAEE50-4-F2-A-4-E7-E-B12-C-EBF5-AA0-D39-BD.png


Because of how long this is getting, I’ll split this post into 3
 

Drawmander

I draw and I mander - axolotl
2. Mouth and Jaw structure

All of my critiques in this area are about very small details, but these do make a difference.

I notice that your character has a snout that protrudes from the face, but the mouth shape doesn’t compensate for this. Instead it makes a circle shape which is entirely different from the snout (a wolf’s upper lip). This is a small detail, but if the lower lip matches the shape of the snout, then it makes it look much more proportional. You also won’t need to pinch the side of the mouth furthest away from the viewer, which I noticed occurs in some of your artworks.

For jaw structure, I’m going to show this image to help me explain it ( along with showing the mouth thing )

5-B9-D0-EBC-FFAA-4361-8798-3-ABE95-D990-A9.png


You may be able to see what I’m implying without me typing it out, but I want to help as much as I can since you seem sincere.

In the top, unedited two images, you’ll see in the outline that the jaw hinge is next to the eyes according to the line work, but the mouth is much lower. To fix this (the bottom images), I lowered the jaw line and made the cheek larger to compensate for the lost bone mass. This also complimented the longer mouth which is proportional to the nose. And now there’s also room for cheeks!

The center of the mouth and the chin are also not aligned to the center of the face in the original, so in my edit I defined the center and placed the lip on the chin.

For the head/face I think you are VERY close to reaching a strong point. However, I think you need to practice how your character would work as a 3D life form. Of course, for a cartoon style things can stretch and pull, but when the character is stationary you want to have a solid grasp of the structure of the face.

Part 3 coming in a few minutes
 
Last edited:

Drawmander

I draw and I mander - axolotl
3. Forced Perspective

I see from this art and your gallery that you're working with perspective in mind. This is great! It’s one of the most important aspects of making it feel authentic.

I noticed that you put a large emphasis on perspective for his head, but very little for his body. It’s very important that if you use perspective, that it’s consistent throughout the entire piece.

I’ll demonstrate what I mean here:
7550-C01-D-A936-410-D-B2-BF-18-BA8-AA7-B2-CE.png

In the left original image, you’ll see that the perspective is forced to an extreme. I don’t meant forced as in bad, but more so dramatic. With these kind of perspective lines, I would expect for him to be close enough for me to bump shoulders with him. Instead, this is a full body shot. In this case, the perspective on the facial features should match that of the body.

If you wanted to add more perspective to this piece, you would need to add a background.

In the right edited image I matched the facial perspective to that of the body, and made a few other minor adjustments. Don’t be afraid to have one eye slightly covered by the snout, and remember the power of eyebrows!

This is the edited artwork with all the additions I made. Arm shape, mouth and jaw structure, and perspective. I also rounded out the other arm so they both match:

95-CDC2-FB-4-D4-A-4-F5-D-A3-D1-539-F706-FB921.png

1563880392.super-dough-mutt_lucius_summer_wear_fa_size.png


As you can see, all of the changes I made are very subtle. This is because You ARE a good artist. You have a definitive style with unique characters that compliment that style. You DO have what it takes to make a comic, and it’s my belief that you haven’t wasted any time. However, any craft you dedicate yourself to will always require MORE time.

You just need to work on a few fundamentals.

If you disagree with my suggestions/critique, then you have the right to ignore them. I completely understand if so.

Just please, don’t quit. Keep moving forward.

However, if you feel as though this isn’t what you want to do, and it’s a source of misery, then quit. If you do, have a backup plan for what you’d like to do instead.

The choice is yours to make

Peace
 
Last edited:

Super-Dough-Mutt

New Member
Hia!
I really like what you have going on with the face. You seem to have gotten that down pretty well. And your anatomy is pretty good too! Here's some advice where I think you could improve.

I feel like the feet could be worked on a bit, the perspective in the first and last piece is a bit flat and distorted. With practice that can change though!
I also think that cell shading would look really nice with your art style to give the art more depth and make the viewer look at it longer because, well, there's multiple things to notice! Often times when I use cell shading and lighting I make three or four different layers of it, each one getting darker/lighter to make the illusion of a gradient.
And finally, I feel like thicker like art would suit your toony artwork more, or at least a thick outline on the perimeters of the character to make them stand out.

Hope this helps!
Hia!
I really like what you have going on with the face. You seem to have gotten that down pretty well. And your anatomy is pretty good too! Here's some advice where I think you could improve.

I feel like the feet could be worked on a bit, the perspective in the first and last piece is a bit flat and distorted. With practice that can change though!
I also think that cell shading would look really nice with your art style to give the art more depth and make the viewer look at it longer because, well, there's multiple things to notice! Often times when I use cell shading and lighting I make three or four different layers of it, each one getting darker/lighter to make the illusion of a gradient.
And finally, I feel like thicker like art would suit your toony artwork more, or at least a thick outline on the perimeters of the character to make them stand out.

Hope this helps!

Aaah, thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it! I'm gonna work really hard on improving!
 

Super-Dough-Mutt

New Member
Hi!

I agree with Slimy boy about the faces. They have nice expressions and works well. I also agree about cell shading ^^
For the anatomy part, I think that you may want to work on both feet/hands and elbow/arm crease parts. They are often wonky. Even if they're not the focus of the eye, being extra careful with them for a while would help you to make them emphasis the poses and expressions of your characters. Of course, don't hesitate to use references :)

I saw that one of your journal was about doing a comic. My opinion is that you should really do it. Making a comic will help you improve!
I have to say it can be frustrating and time consuming so don't hesitate to begin with short comics. Try different angles and way to frame as you go and you'll learn new things.

Please note that often to improve in art you have to go out of your comfort zone. You're drawing the same kind of characters (I went to saw your previous account too) and often the same kind of poses. You seem to add backgrounds and diversity recently so keep doing that and you'll improve.

Lastly, I think you're already in the right direction so just keep going and don't forget to have fun!

You're so right though. I have to use more references, and venture out of my comfort zone more. Thank you so much! ^^
 

Super-Dough-Mutt

New Member
3. Forced Perspective

I see from this art and your gallery that you're working with perspective in mind. This is great! It’s one of the most important aspects of making it feel authentic.

I noticed that you put a large emphasis on perspective for his head, but very little for his body. It’s very important that if you use perspective, that it’s consistent throughout the entire piece.

I’ll demonstrate what I mean here:
7550-C01-D-A936-410-D-B2-BF-18-BA8-AA7-B2-CE.png

In the left original image, you’ll see that the perspective is forced to an extreme. I don’t meant forced as in bad, but more so dramatic. With these kind of perspective lines, I would expect for him to be close enough for me to bump shoulders with him. Instead, this is a full body shot. In this case, the perspective on the facial features should match that of the body.

If you wanted to add more perspective to this piece, you would need to add a background.

In the right edited image I matched the facial perspective to that of the body, and made a few other minor adjustments. Don’t be afraid to have one eye slightly covered by the snout, and remember the power of eyebrows!

This is the edited artwork with all the additions I made. Arm shape, mouth and jaw structure, and perspective. I also rounded out the other arm so they both match:

95-CDC2-FB-4-D4-A-4-F5-D-A3-D1-539-F706-FB921.png

1563880392.super-dough-mutt_lucius_summer_wear_fa_size.png


As you can see, all of the changes I made are very subtle. This is because You ARE a good artist. You have a definitive style with unique characters that compliment that style. You DO have what it takes to make a comic, and it’s my belief that you haven’t wasted any time. However, any craft you dedicate yourself to will always require MORE time.

You just need to work on a few fundamentals.

If you disagree with my suggestions/critique, then you have the right to ignore them. I completely understand if so.

Just please, don’t quit. Keep moving forward.

However, if you feel as though this isn’t what you want to do, and it’s a source of misery, then quit. If you do, have a backup plan for what you’d like to do instead.

The choice is yours to make

Peace

Thanks for all the tips! I really appreciate it!

I learned a lot from from these posts. I can't thank you enough for all of this! ^^
 
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