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How many furries know what Bitcoin is?

Do you know what Bitcoin is?

  • Yes.

  • I have heard of it but don't really know much.

  • Isn't it like, a dark web thing?

  • Never heard of it.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Doddy Guy

New Member
There have been numerous stories in the news of people losing purported millions in bitcoins, because their access codes were stored on servers that were lost or accidentally thrown away.
That is the point. These people didn't possess their private keys (didn't know the seed phrase). In fact they didn't have the money because you only have money if you (and only you) have access to the seed phrase.
UPD: the other day I read some note on trust wallet forum in which the developers of this wallet recommended to keep the seed in password manager with zero knowledge policy.
 
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Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
That is why BTC is the money of the future, my opinion. You can transfer 1 bl dollars in BTC and it will take several minutes and only 1 (one) dollar fee.

Of course, if I have a billion dollars and I'm concerned about the cost of a simple transaction fee, then I've lost touch with reality and value totally! <laugh>

Also I have to ask...aside from a hostage situation, what scenario would anyone need millions of dollars moved and not be willing to wait a day or 2 for security?
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Of course, if I have a billion dollars and I'm concerned about the cost of a simple transaction fee, then I've lost touch with reality and value totally! <laugh>

Also I have to ask...aside from a hostage situation, what scenario would anyone need millions of dollars moved and not be willing to wait a day or 2 for security?

Discreetly buying all the furry smut on the interwebs.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
The government released an official statement saying they were doing so and the Bukele himself tweeted about it ... and both the article's author and I are sourcing them.

I gotcha. You missed where I said a few times that the adoption happened in a small town a year ago. The government released that info that they're doing what they did in September of 2021 earlier in the Summer of 2021. The "Bitcoin Beach" movement in Tunco started in summer of 2019, two years before the government made its decision. Like l was saying, but you

Furthermore, I was aware of Bitcoin Beach, which is hardly a scalable experiment for the whole country;
1) Doubt that so much I'm going to go out and call you a liar. Especially because of the misunderstanding above.
2) They started to use Lightning Network at Bitcoin Beach. There's nothing preventing that from scaling other than time. Especially in a country where few people have credit/debit cards because banks are all kinds of cumbersome, and credit card fees for merchants are 7% per transaction. Government just helped speed it


I mean, the recent high growth Bitcoin has experienced doesn't wipe the previous bubbles and market crashes.
Why would they matter? They were completely expected. Adoption isn't instant, it comes in waves.

I do too and it shows that maybe Bukele didn't think through the ramifications of adopting Bitcoin as legal tender
Oh, no, that was a great idea. The country doubled their investment, and will continue to double it every year or so for at least the next 5 years. A country that is so far I'm debt can't make a better decision than invest in something that will give them such a huge return and help them pay off the debts in no time. Especially if by investing in Bitcoin they help trigger a speculative attack against the dollar that will wipe out their dollar denominated debt.


No one except the government officials you need to get building and licensing permits from
Those are very easy to pay off. Anonymously in Bitcoin. And some of the energy generators are quite portable. The ones that mine using vented gas from oil wells look like truck trailers. Roll them up, hook them up, burn the gas inside to peer generators, when the gas is gone, pack up and move to another one. But, there's plenty of ways to use electricity without anyone knowing what you're using it for and you know it.



With P2P, there were small holdout countries where pirates were able to based their anti-copyright operations and it wasn't in every one of the major governments' interest to devote the resources to stop the copyright theft, particularly in China.

With cryptocurrencies, different economics come into play, because cryptocurrencies obviously undermine the tax base of a country and enable all manners of criminal activity to flourish through alternative financing.
Kinda sorta but not really. In both cases the biggest problem is that the resources to track down and stop the "crime" GREATLY outweigh the benefits, and securing from more attacks once you learn how the last one was done is much cheaper. There's also the economics that the politicians in charge also own Bitcoin and invest in Bitcoin holding and supporting companies, so even if they publicly say one thing, they'll privately support another...


Along with the corporate and wealthy interests that don't want to shoulder a higher tax burden due cryptocurrencies siphoning money in the short term out of the tax base.
That's irrelevant at this point. All the corps and billionaires combined can't shoulder the tax burden of the current government. Spending is way beyond anything they can handle. And government seems to have decided that it's fine to just print more money if it needs it. So no one cares. Besides, corporate and wealthy interests are the ones using cryptocurrencies to syphon money or of the tax base...

There are also the social ills posed by cryptocurrencies, which economists have been warning about, particularly the bubble nature of the cryptocurrency markets.
Fuck those "economists" and their moralizing lies with a rusty nail dildo. They're "old man yelling at clouds"
The FBI easily and regularly traces Bitcoin transaction involved in criminal activity
GOD I wish you would stop meaning shit up and saying it with authority as if it's something you know and didn't just pull out of your ass. Have you heard of Chainslysis? They're the top company that traces Bitcoin transactions for government agencies around the world, including the FBI. They're the guys who outed the two FBI agents in the Silk Road case and proved that the agents who were investigating Silk Road also stole a lot of money from it, sending both of them to jail. Well, I used to work for, and eventually run, a little company named Mycelium (one of the oldest and at time the top wallets). We had a back-end that processed the Bitcoin blockchain and provided easy results to the wallet on your phone. My friend and colleague Jan Møller was the one who wrote that backend. Then he quit the company, took a copy of his blockchain processing code, and started his own company. I bet you can guess the name. Yeah, the founder and CTO of the company that all the world's top government agencies use to trace Bitcoin transactions is a good friend of mine.
So, believe me when I tell you, the FBI has a VERY difficult time tracing Bitcoin transactions. Especially if the people using it are aware of some basic techniques to stay anonymous. FBI spent years to try to find Silk Road, and still never managed to find it through tracing bitcoin. They only found it because the web server leaked the IP by accident. So, I know how EXACTLY how Bitcoin transaction tracing works, EXACTLY what makes it difficult, and EXACTLY what technologies exist and are coming out to make it impossible. If you're curious, ask. Otherwise don't lie to people as if you know, because you obviously don't. Saying this "perform brute-force methods to trace transactions" is as dumb as " two people using the same keyboard to defend against a hacker attack." This is the equivalent of your describing how Bitcoin tracing works

Stop that.

2-6 days is maybe the standard wait time for transactions to be settled by all parties these days and debit transactions are nearly instantaneous since the funds are extant.
I'm sorry, what part of "banks give each other short term loans to make things instant, and take a week to a month or more to settle" did you not understand? And no, having the possibility of your money pulled out of your bank 5 months later for "fraud protection" doesn't mean it's settled.

For the consumer. however, the transaction is settled immediately if they have the funds and there is no wait time.
It's not either. For the consumer they can also pull the money back for a few days (months in some cases). Settled means settles. Not "we make it look like it's settled." For the consumer a Bitcoin transaction using modern tech actually IS settled almost immediately (few seconds).


Jesus Christ, do you even read your own research?
First of all, it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a Lightning Network transaction to take 10 minutes. It will simply fail if it can't find a route to settle through within the first 20 secinds or so. You obviously don't understand the tech, yet insist on talking like you do.
And second, this is FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE
Desiree Dickerson, Lightning Labs’ vice president of operations, touts the power of the lightning network stating that it currently has a maximum throughput of 25 million transactions per second and it expects that to increase as the network grows; Desiree also mentions that the Lightning Network settlement is instant, instead of taking 10 to 60 minutes on-chain.

Seriously, just sit down and shut up at this point.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Thank you, I was about to post those in response to @Doddy Guy but you beat me to it. <grin>

Meanwhile, I lost the password (PIN) to my account at the bank once. I just brought gouvernment ID and they gave me a new one. Because of that backing in the system, I had access to my money in ~10 minutes. WHO do you complain to if your bitcoin transaction malfunctions that can do anything? Big difference there...

If you lose your Bitcoin that's stored at an insured regulated institution like Coinbase, Kraken, or Unchained Capital, you complain to them and they reset your password and restore access to your coins. They're even insured, so if they get robbed they can still restore your Bitcoin.
WHO do you complain to if you lost your wallet full of $20 bills? Bitcoin itself is like cash. I guess people forgot what cash is. (And if you lost it due to a badly formed transaction, first, stop making those by hand and use a wallet app, and second, you can complain to the mining pool that processed it. They tend to return them.)

By the way, your description read like a pretty funny parody XD Your explanation of how dollars have value and how government protects that value is pretty creative

Also I have to ask...aside from a hostage situation, what scenario would anyone need millions of dollars moved and not be willing to wait a day or 2 for security?

You're bidding on a contract against someone, the deal is only available today, and it's Friday at 4:30 PM. Oh, and you have much higher security doing it through Bitcoin. Remember, banks only insure your cash balance up to $250,000, and don't insure your wire transfers at all (every time they make me sign a ton of documents that I understand that once they send it it's gone and that I have verified that information).
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
I gotcha. You missed where I said a few times that the adoption happened in a small town a year ago. The government released that info that they're doing what they did in September of 2021 earlier in the Summer of 2021. The "Bitcoin Beach" movement in Tunco started in summer of 2019, two years before the government made its decision. Like l was saying, but you

1) Doubt that so much I'm going to go out and call you a liar. Especially because of the misunderstanding above.
2) They started to use Lightning Network at Bitcoin Beach. There's nothing preventing that from scaling other than time. Especially in a country where few people have credit/debit cards because banks are all kinds of cumbersome, and credit card fees for merchants are 7% per transaction. Government just helped speed it
I mean, earlier in the thread we were discussing Bitcoin Beach and you've mentioned it in another thread previously; you can check this easily before getting hysterical, especially you've been the one pushing misinformation here and denying basic facts you've later acknowledged. Bitcoin Beach also wasn't a secret; it's been loudly and widely publicized.

Furthermore, putting aside the infrastructure and logistical concerns of integrating Bitcoin into El Salvador's economy, there is a elephant in the room that Bitcoin is wildly unstable and volatile, which is problematic for a currency that is legal tender. Bitcoin literally has lost 21% of its value since the beginning of the month and 10% just over the weekend.

This does not bode well for El Salvador and is in line with most economist's analysis about the fallout from the Bitcoin Law. Bitcoin is at best a risk asset, not material for legal tender.
Why would they matter? They were completely expected. Adoption isn't instant, it comes in waves.
A market crash wiping out 80% of value by definition the result of an unexpected outcome.
Oh, no, that was a great idea. The country doubled their investment, and will continue to double it every year or so for at least the next 5 years. A country that is so far I'm debt can't make a better decision than invest in something that will give them such a huge return and help them pay off the debts in no time. Especially if by investing in Bitcoin they help trigger a speculative attack against the dollar that will wipe out their dollar denominated debt.
I feel the events of the weekend have changed the math on how good an idea that was.
GOD I wish you would stop meaning shit up and saying it with authority as if it's something you know and didn't just pull out of your ass. Have you heard of Chainslysis? They're the top company that traces Bitcoin transactions for government agencies around the world, including the FBI. They're the guys who outed the two FBI agents in the Silk Road case and proved that the agents who were investigating Silk Road also stole a lot of money from it, sending both of them to jail. Well, I used to work for, and eventually run, a little company named Mycelium (one of the oldest and at time the top wallets). We had a back-end that processed the Bitcoin blockchain and provided easy results to the wallet on your phone. My friend and colleague Jan Møller was the one who wrote that backend. Then he quit the company, took a copy of his blockchain processing code, and started his own company. I bet you can guess the name. Yeah, the founder and CTO of the company that all the world's top government agencies use to trace Bitcoin transactions is a good friend of mine.
So, believe me when I tell you, the FBI has a VERY difficult time tracing Bitcoin transactions. Especially if the people using it are aware of some basic techniques to stay anonymous. FBI spent years to try to find Silk Road, and still never managed to find it through tracing bitcoin. They only found it because the web server leaked the IP by accident. So, I know how EXACTLY how Bitcoin transaction tracing works, EXACTLY what makes it difficult, and EXACTLY what technologies exist and are coming out to make it impossible. If you're curious, ask. Otherwise don't lie to people as if you know, because you obviously don't. Saying this "perform brute-force methods to trace transactions" is as dumb as " two people using the same keyboard to defend against a hacker attack." This is the equivalent of your describing how Bitcoin tracing works

Stop that.
All due respect to Jan Moller and, to lesser extent, you, but law enforcement has largely kept up with with tracing cryptocurrencies and is past the point of using third parties track transactions, recent recoveries like the Colonial Pipeline ransomware situation and others. Arguably, in some respects, Bitcoin is easier to trace regular currencies because of the blockchain and the relative lack of a need for warrants to trace the transactions.

Unlike you, I talk about what I know.
I'm sorry, what part of "banks give each other short term loans to make things instant, and take a week to a month or more to settle" did you not understand? And no, having the possibility of your money pulled out of your bank 5 months later for "fraud protection" doesn't mean it's settled.
The key phrase here is fraud protection for your concerns about commercial banking; as long as you're above board, you've got nothing to fear and the money is yours. That is how fraud protection works.

It also sounds like you're crude describing the overnight market, which is mainly for bank and financial institutions.
Jesus Christ, do you even read your own research?
First of all, it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a Lightning Network transaction to take 10 minutes. It will simply fail if it can't find a route to settle through within the first 20 secinds or so. You obviously don't understand the tech, yet insist on talking like you do.
The Lightning Network has several problems it needs to address and I'll reiterate that a large portion Bitcoin users don't use the Lightning Network currently. And the average transaction for Bitcoin is 10 minutes, your hyperbole notwithstanding. I'll apologize for the typo about Lightning Network; given the glaring mistakes you made yourself, you'll give me that.

Consider that Lightning Network doesn't totally solve the problem of Bitcoin's fluctuating transaction fees since network congestion is only one factor that influences the transaction fees. There are also concerns about opening and closing costs as well as routing fees that Lightning Network will have contend with going forward.

On the security side of things, keeping the nodes of the Lightning Network online at all times to send and receive payments makes them susceptible, allowing Bitcoins to be stolen if the computer storing their private keys is compromised. Going offline has its own drawbacks, since one of the two parties on a payment channel could close the channel and steal the funds while the other party is away. I think this is called fraudulent channel closing, if I'm not mistaken.

A serious systemic risk to the platform that Lightning Network needs to address is that a malicious actor could create numerous channels and force them to expire, which would broadcast to the blockchain and cause congestion that overwhelms the block. That actor could use the congestion to steal the funds of parties unable to withdraw their funds because of the congestion. I know Lighting Network developers and have admitted as much.

So Lightning Network has a ways to go still.
 
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Rassah

Well-Known Member
This is an interview that is being deleted from YouTube and every other major digital media platform. Don't know why, but eh. Either way, if you listen to it, it may be the most important info you'll hear in your life, or you'll dismiss it and then wonder what happened.
 

Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
This is an interview that is being deleted from YouTube and every other major digital media platform. Don't know why, but eh. Either way, if you listen to it, it may be the most important info you'll hear in your life, or you'll dismiss it and then wonder what happened.

Sorry, but can't. You totally lost me at "Tucker Carlson". I'd rather watch kittens be skinned alive than have to put up with anything from that twat.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but can't. You totally lost me at "Tucker Carlson". I'd rather watch kittens be skinned alive than have to put up with anything from that twat.
That's good. Tucker doesn't actually say or really comment on anything, with the video just being Michael Saylor explaining what's going on with the financial system, our economy, our global prospects for people and businesses around the world, and what Bitcoin is doing to address those huge problems, but it's cool to see people self selecting themselves for failure because big corporate giants told them to. Broke desperate and ignorant people are easier to control after all.
 

Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
That's good. Tucker doesn't actually say or really comment on anything, with the video just being Michael Saylor explaining what's going on with the financial system, our economy, our global prospects for people and businesses around the world, and what Bitcoin is doing to address those huge problems, but it's cool to see people self selecting themselves for failure because big corporate giants told them to. Broke desperate and ignorant people are easier to control after all.

Yeah that's good, but the mere fact he has him on the show means that he's supporting it...which means it's probably bad and a lie by default. Now if you told me that Tucker is arguing with him then I might...might...consider tolerating it, but it's not so it's an endorsement of the message by default.

Plus I'd have to look at his face, and I've gone through enough television screens in rage having tried to do that for more than a few minutes.
He's just too punchable an idiot, like evangelical Christmas tunes sung by Gilford Godfrey in face form. I can't stand him for more than a few seconds at a time.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Bitcoin Beach also wasn't a secret; it's been loudly and widely publicized.
So then why, when I said that Bitcoin Beach was a grassroots Bitcoin adoption that the government then was later inspired by, did you "correct" me by lying that Bitcoin Beach came after the government did their thing?


Bitcoin literally has lost 21% of its value since the beginning of the month and 10% just over the weekend.
Hahahaha! You should see that video so you get a better idea of what's happening with the crap you're using. You're spending your life working and amassing wealth, only to have 20% of your wealth go backwards, wondering why most people are getting poorer and poorer, and then are complaining about a 20% temporary drop that is still a 160% rise over the year XD Ugh, you guys deserve exactly what you're fighting for.

in line with most economist's analysis about the fallout from the Bitcoin Law.
Most economists don't understand Bitcoin either, and Bitcoin has been hilariously proving economists wrong for over a decade. These are the same economists who said it's a bubble and that it will never reach $100.

A market crash wiping out 80% of value by definition the result of an unexpected outcome.
That never happened in Bitcoin. There was a slow decline, but that's was somewhat expected. Same as a "crash" wiping out 99% of the value of the USD was completely expected.
I feel the events of the weekend have changed the math on how good an idea that was.
You're obviously not an economists, and as I've said many times, your biggest problem is that you always focus on the now, seemingly being incapable of predicting the future. The weekend wiped out leveraged positions, making the base price stronger.


All due respect to Jan Moller and, to lesser extent, you, but law enforcement has largely kept up with with tracing cryptocurrencies and is past the point of using third parties track transactions, recent recoveries like the Colonial Pipeline ransomware situation and others. ... Unlike you, I talk about what I know.



Do you have any proof of that claim that they're "past the point of using third parties to track?" Because Chainslysis is still getting business from FBI, CIA, and other global agencies, and their demands are growing really really fast. Do you even know HOW they found the guy in the Colonial Pipeline ransomware? I have a pretty good guess, but I'm curious if you know, or are again just making shit up. You claim you talk about what you know, so back that up and tell me how the ransomware worked and how they busted him.
And nah, you're wrong about it being easier to track Bitcoin transactions, but I'm not wasting time on you with that.

The key phrase here is fraud protection for your concerns about commercial banking; as long as you're above board, you've got nothing to fear and the money is yours. That is how fraud protection works.
You can call it fraud protection, but that's still not settlement. Fraud protection is part of the reason banks have the biggest buildings in every city and are to rich they're too big to fail. Bitcoin doesn't need fraud protection to STIMULATE settlement.

It also sounds like you're crude describing the overnight market, which is mainly for bank and financial institutions.
That's lending and to a point settlement. But yes, in settlement case, that's when the money you send to someone via a bank transfer ACTUALLY gets there. And it's never the next night.

The Lightning Network has several problems it needs to address and I'll reiterate that a large portion Bitcoin users don't use the Lightning Network currently.
And I'll reiterate that you have an actual mental defect that prevents you from seeing trends and making predictions. Large portion of people don't use a lot of technology, until they do. That's not an argument against anything.
And the average transaction for Bitcoin is 10 minutes,
Instant if on lightning network.


Consider that Lightning Network doesn't totally solve the problem of Bitcoin's fluctuating transaction fees since network congestion is only one factor that influences the transaction fees.
Lightning Network fees have no relation to on chain network congestion. There's no congestion on Lightning, because there are no limits on Lightning.

There are also concerns about opening and closing costs
Taproot, a recent upgrade, addresses a lot of that, and there are other ways to bypass that problem.
On the security side of things, keeping the nodes of the Lightning Network online at all times to send and receive payments makes them susceptible, allowing Bitcoins to be stolen if the computer storing their private keys is compromised.
That's true, but at the very worst, that's a problem every single bank has already, since banks are also just nodes connected to the internet at all times. So these Lightning nodes already use bank level security to protect themselves, and it's only getting better too. And if you're an end user, you don't actually have to keep your keys online, since like with plain Bitcoin, they're only needed to send payments.

Going offline has its own drawbacks, since one of the two parties on a payment channel could close the channel and steal the funds while the other party is away. I think this is called fraudulent channel closing, if I'm not mistaken.
Yes. There are methods for dealing with that as well, called watch towers, that monitor for fraudulent close and alert you. They're still in development though. You can also just run your own small node for $100 worth of hardware if you have a lot of money to worry about. Less than what you'll pay through credit cards, especially if merchants start passing the fees on to you and giving you discounts for using Bitcoin.


A serious systemic risk to the platform that Lightning Network needs to address is that a malicious actor could create numerous channels and force them to expire, which would broadcast to the blockchain and cause congestion that overwhelms the block. That actor could use the congestion to steal the funds of parties unable to withdraw their funds because of the congestion. I know Lighting Network developers and have admitted as much.
That's a risk, because if the ones he's stealing from by closing a prior channel state broadcast a correct transaction and get it to confirm, ALL the money on the channels, including his, will go to them. So if I stand to lose $500 due to theft, and gain $1000 (including his $500) from defending myself, I'd be willing to pay up to $500 transaction fee or more to screw him and get my money back. Oh, and I'll have something like a week to do it in. It would cost him a lot of money to keep the network congested for that long too.

Yeah that's good, but the mere fact he has him on the show means that he's supporting it...which means it's probably bad and a lie by default.
Tucker didn't know anything about Bitcoin and just brought an expert in to talk about it and listen. Like I said, Tucker almost never even says anything. And I never watch his show myself, but the interview was pretty informative even to myself. But whatever excuse you want to tell yourself to keep your head in the sand is fine.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
@Rassah , you're dancing around the glaringly obviously issue marking Bitcoin as poor investment currently and that is the cryptocurrency is extremely volatile, along the fact that Bitcoin has lost 23% of its value over the last month in a sustained trend. That is a serious loss for any real investor whether we're talking about an individual or an institution. Bitcoin seems to be behaving more like risk asset rather than an inflation hedge right now. Now, this current decline isn't as bad as when Bitcoin lost 80% of its value around November of 2018, which actually did happen despite your insistence it didn't, but it does speak to serious doubts about whether the Bitcoin economy will be stable and sustainable going forward. Bitcoin's past and present performance very much called in question whether this cryptocurrency is the economic gamechange you try to portray it as.

You try to disparage as not being an economist, but I'm following my education and training acknowledging that Bitcoin has a credible history of extreme volatility and relatively rapidly losing a majority of its value in fairly short period of time. No professional economist is going recommend it as a safe investment facing no real existential risk as some of Bitcoins proponents have tried to portray it.

Furthermore, you've demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of uncontestable facts regarding economics, like the inherent feasibility of the gold standard, that the fact Keynes's economic theories couldn't been responsible for the Great Depression because he didn't develop them yet, that the Long Depression did actually happen, that the Austrian school is a fringe school of economics, and that Keynes was definitely not a communist. You admitted previously you were wrong on these previous points. You should also know these points because you've been working in economics longer and directly than I have, yet seemed not to.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
I'm not going to further speak the Lightning Network because I'll admit you're probably more familiar with it, but I'll note concerns I raised with also acknowledged by the developers of the network as well too. I also view the Lightning Network a small step towards Bitcoin actually becoming something approaching a payment system with reasonable transaction times. Though as time goes on, Lightning Network probably will institute fees.

I'm aware than Chainalysis was awarded a sole contract by the FBI something like 5 years ago, which is public knowledge because the FBI lists its contractors, but a lot has changed at the bureau these days and reliance on outside contractors has been scaled back over the years. Chainalysis may still hold that contract, but there haven't been other major contractors brought on board specializing in what Chainalysis does.

Now, I'm pretty certain of one of two things. Either Chainalysis doesn't have a CIA contract or you're not privy to that, because posting that information here, you would have voided that contract, which I don't think you're stupid enough to do. Furthermore, for financial forensics contractors, if they do business with international parties, then that disqualifies them from being contractors to the CIA. The CIA also probably won't be the agency to contract with Chainalysis in the American Intelligence Community outside the FBI. You can check the laws regarding contractors for those services if you disbelieve me; they're very explicit.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Bitcoin lost 23% of it's value last month. Oh no! That means everyone who bought it a year ago is only up 160%. And everyone who bought it 2 years ago is only up 610%. And everyone who didn't buy it but stuck with dollars is down 30%. It's great you keep focusing on small short term falls so you can keep ignoring the 150% to 200% long term term returns. Even better that you're just focusing on the price so you can ignore all the stuff it's actually doing where the price doesn't matter.
Do you have a better option for people around the globe to escape the extremely harmful, environmentally destructive, and poverty inducing inflation?
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Now, this current decline isn't as bad as when Bitcoin lost 80% of its value around November of 2018, which actually did happen despite your insistence it didn't,

Here's the price chart from October 2018 to December 2018
Screenshot_20211211-230223_Brave.jpg


Now can you PLEASE just STOP FUCKING LYING! It's not even funny anymore.

As for Chainslysis, you doged the question. How did FBI find the hackers in that ransomware attack, and how did the ransomware even happen?
Actually, forget I asked. You'll lie about that too.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Here's the price chart from October 2018 to December 2018
View attachment 124144

Now can you PLEASE just STOP FUCKING LYING! It's not even funny anymore.

As for Chainslysis, you doged the question. How did FBI find the hackers in that ransomware attack, and how did the ransomware even happen?
Actually, forget I asked. You'll lie about that too.


The 2018 cryptocurrency crash[15][34][35][36][37] (also known as the Bitcoin crash[38] and the Great crypto crash[16]) was the sell-off of most cryptocurrencies from January 2018. After an unprecedented boom in 2017, the price of Bitcoin fell by about 65 percent during the month from 6 January to 6 February 2018. Subsequently, nearly all other cryptocurrencies which had also peaked from December 2017 through January 2018, then followed Bitcoin's crash. By September 2018, cryptocurrencies collapsed 80% from their peak in January 2018, making the 2018 cryptocurrency crash worse than the Dot-com bubble's 78% collapse.[16] By 26 November, Bitcoin also fell by over 80% from its peak, having lost almost one-third of its value in the previous week.[39]
I mean, the Wall Street Journal must be lying as well too, Rassah.

Do you have a better option for people around the globe to escape the extremely harmful, environmentally destructive, and poverty inducing inflation?
Yes, actually. Seriously handle this pandemic getting everyone vaccinated here stateside and around the world so we can get businesses working normally again. That will solve the myriad of supply chain issues currently driving up prices worldwide, including for certain sectors Bitcoin is dependent on, though arguably this pandemic has given the Bitcoin market a lot of its current investors.

Putting this pandemic in the rearview mirror is a winning proposition for everyone.
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
Banned
The way to fix the issues of poverty brought on by capitalism is a currency to make capitalism even more unregulated for the uber wealthy to prosper even farther and hold even more power over the workers.


See its like fighting a fire you just dump more accelerants onto it.
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here

Yakamaru

Yee to the haw
When the dip down to $30,000 occurred I said it would recover. I also said dips like these does not matter to any serious long-term investors and only see it as an investment opportunity if anything. And I will repeat myself once more: Long-term.

This is an interview that is being deleted from YouTube and every other major digital media platform. Don't know why, but eh. Either way, if you listen to it, it may be the most important info you'll hear in your life, or you'll dismiss it and then wonder what happened.
Interesting interview that's for sure.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Putting aside the month-long decline of the price of Bitcoin (it has lost approximately 18,000 or 27% of it value over a month to date) and that it is not behaving like an inflation hedge, Michael Saylor is a very suspicious messenger for touting Bitcoin based on his history of fraud.

Saylor was a party to an alleged accounting scheme that vastly, and fraudulently, overstated his company, MicroStrategy, earnings, to make the publicly traded corporation which was losing money look profitable. Saylor, along with two other executives and the company itself, had to pay out a $11 million settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Saylor personally signed off the fraudulent earning reports and had to pay $8.2 million of that $11 million settlement. The fraud charges were settled without anyone admitting wrongdoing.

Despite that, he held onto his job since the 2000 settlement for the last 20 years, though it should be noted that the company's revenue has declined every year since 2014, with the exception of increase it has experienced since MicroStrategy used debt offerings to buy up Bitcoin, which is an extremely risky enterprise that the current downturn in the Bitcoin market is proving foolhardy. Citigroup downgraded MicroStrategy to a sell rating in response to the company's cryptocurrency purchases.

Saylor has a direct and personal interest in keeping suckers in the Bitcoin market.
 
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Foxy Emy

PFP by ScaratheWolf | Scarlett & [Laura]
*has flashbacks to before the politics section of the form was removed.*

Was not expecting this to turn into a flame war when I made it back in 2018. :eek:
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
*has flashbacks to before the politics section of the form was removed.*

Was not expecting this to turn into a flame war when I made it back in 2018. :eek:
I was tempted to mention that in retrospect, I would have liked the thread topic to cover Cryptocurrenices in a general sense, rather than just Bitcoin. With that said, the debates here already get far too heated and condescending. I couldn't imagine how much worse it'd get with other crytocurrencies being discussed. I generally find the technology behind cryptocurrencies interesting, especially some of the newer generation cryptos that rely on proof of stake, and sharding. It's very impressive how fast the technology is evolving. It's just a shame it's such a contentious topic here.
 
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