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How many furries know what Bitcoin is?

Do you know what Bitcoin is?

  • Yes.

  • I have heard of it but don't really know much.

  • Isn't it like, a dark web thing?

  • Never heard of it.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Rassah

Well-Known Member
I've made only two comments in the thread,
and they both come from sources which are neutral towards the merit of cryptocurrencies:

-That hyperlinks to child pornography had been included as arbitrary data in the blockchain.

Irrelevant. They're not child pornography itself, they're just old links to websites that have been taken down a long time ago, and links to child pornography exist on the internet itself, so... Let's ban the internet?

-75% of bitcoin 'hashing power' is concentrated in China, a major portion of which is currently supported by coal.
This was sourced from a recent paper published in Nature:

Your article doesn't provide anything to support the claim that 75% of Bitcoin mining is in China. It just makes that claim. Which I know for a fact it's false because I know a lot of people in the Bitcoin mining industry (people who raise as much as $250 million in investment to set up these mines). At most only about 40% of Bitcoin is mined in China, especially after China started cracking down on illegal Bitcoin mines that were buying electricity illegally under the table many years ago.

And, your research paper gets ALL of its information about Bitcoin's energy use from other sources, such as this one cited as #13 https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 which get THEIR information from... That's right, Digiconomist again. Meaning its flawed data that was pulled out of some 20 year old's ass who knows nothing about economics, Bitcoin, and ESPECIALLY not energy industry or china. Your article and its claims are bunk that was debunked years ago by actual energy industry experts and actual researchers right here https://medium.com/crescofin/the-reports-of-bitcoin-environmental-damage-are-garbage-5a93d32c2d7

If you want to know the truth about this energy use nonsense, listen to this guy.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Irrelevant. They're not child pornography itself, they're just old links to websites that have been taken down a long time ago, and links to child pornography exist on the internet itself, so... Let's ban the internet?
I've heard from various colleagues in cybersecurity and law enforcement that it is still a recurring problem, but more concretely, this article was written in 2019, which is far from a long time ago. Putting aside the moral implications, which I would be very slow to do, sensible investors are going to look at other investment vehicles other than cryptocurrencies whose blockchain contains links to illegal content and whose records will need to be potentially amended to remove those links on a regular basis. Bonds, stocks, funds, real estate, and savings accounts don't need to be watched for having links to child pornography.
Your article doesn't provide anything to support the claim that 75% of Bitcoin mining is in China. It just makes that claim. Which I know for a fact it's false because I know a lot of people in the Bitcoin mining industry (people who raise as much as $250 million in investment to set up these mines). At most only about 40% of Bitcoin is mined in China, especially after China started cracking down on illegal Bitcoin mines that were buying electricity illegally under the table many years ago.

And, your research paper gets ALL of its information about Bitcoin's energy use from other sources, such as this one cited as #13 https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 which get THEIR information from... That's right, Digiconomist again. Meaning its flawed data that was pulled out of some 20 year old's ass who knows nothing about economics, Bitcoin, and ESPECIALLY not energy industry or china. Your article and its claims are bunk that was debunked years ago by actual energy industry experts and actual researchers right here https://medium.com/crescofin/the-reports-of-bitcoin-environmental-damage-are-garbage-5a93d32c2d7

If you want to know the truth about this energy use nonsense, listen to this guy.
The article Fallow cited contains citations and links detailing the majority of Bitcoin mining is done in China and hard numbers on the coal consumption claim, which tracks since 57% of China's power comes from coal.

You didn't read the article.
 
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PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
Real talk, whenever someone comes at me about bitcoin it feels like an advanced MLM scheme-
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
I would prefer not to have to fetch 1000 pelts for a computer. So I don't mind currency.

Its just the greed, and the fact that no matter what form it takes or how hard you try to regulate, greed will continue to adapt, which is why the whole save the world statement seems like a joke to me.

People have started wars over less. People will do just as much damage to gain a virtual currency.
Why would you need to fetch 1000 pelts?

we should gather what we need to facilitate what we need and live together within that premise. the hunters gather meat and pelts for all the farmers harvest for all the security defends for all teachers teach for all. its not about building one person or another to excess but to live with each other as we are and within the means as we require.
sure soon as you tie an arbitrary number to things it suddenly gets tainted but if it is within the realm of as we need to survive and no one is above each other and we share our harvests from our skills then it is all good.

I'm fairly sure I am using plain, easy-to-understand English, using simple questions. Can I take this reply of yours as "I haven't the faintest idea"?

Or you can try thinking beyond an abstract plane of this has a monetary value to it and instead think in the sense of what I am saying with the rhetoric of abolishing capitalism.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
Why would you need to fetch 1000 pelts?
Because if you get rid of the dollar, someone will put something else in its place. Think boring fetch quests in an MMO. Except YOU have to find a way to do it in real life.

We're not living in an age where we have to go berry-picking for a small family or village of ten. We're talking literal millions. Farmers already get treated like crap, so I wouldn't wish that kind of responsibility on any of them. And nurses? I'd hate to hear how many more people will outright quit because they're not getting paid. There goes anyone on life support/dying alone in a retirement home.

While I agree that not everything is dandy all around the world, and things could definitely be fixed, I enjoy my digital art-making, and I'm not about to drop it just because someone else deems my creative outlet as 'unnecessary'.
 

Rassah

Well-Known Member
Sensible investors are going to look at other investment vehicles other than cryptocurrencies whose blockchain contains links to illegal content and whose records will need to be potentially amended to remove those links on a regular basis. Bonds, stocks, funds, real estate, and savings accounts don't need to be watched for having links to child pornography.

Actually that's EXACTLY why sensible investors keep flocking to Bitcoin and will continue to do so. They're looking for something that can't be changed, "cleaned," or in any way controlled by anyone, specifically because they're looking for something that doesn't require them to trust someone to not change it to their detriment. That Bitcoin even has those kind of links and STILL nobody can do a thing about it is the strength of that money, not its weakness.

The article Fallow cited contains citations and links detailing the majority of Bitcoin mining is done in China and hard number on the coal consumption claim, which tracks since 57% of China power comes from coal.

You didn't read the article.
I skimmed it. I found a ton of numbers that made no sense based on what I know in reality, and claims that were just outright wrong or stupid. So I checked the sources, having suspicions about them. Found out the sources are all based on lies and fraud by some 20-yo kid whom I've known about for many years now. I believe MIT researchers, those who work in the power grid industry, and those who actually work in mining, over the guys who wrote your article who couldn't even be bothered to check if their numbers make sense, and aren't based on someone who uses those who reference HIS OWN WEBSITE as a reference for his claims (highly unethical circular reference).

In case you missed it, read this https://medium.com/crescofin/the-reports-of-bitcoin-environmental-damage-are-garbage-5a93d32c2d7

Real talk, whenever someone comes at me about bitcoin it feels like an advanced MLM scheme-

You don't have to convince anyone else to get it. If a bomb is falling and you get into a bomb shelter, you don't get to convince others to get in to benefit from being in that shelter. Bitcoin is the bomb shelter where the bomb is hyperinflation and currency controls. But if you live in a priviliged country it's not for you.

Or you can try thinking beyond an abstract plane of this has a monetary value to it and instead think in the sense of what I am saying with the rhetoric of abolishing capitalism.
Most people like things like clothes, nutritious food, warm safe housing, modern healthcare, and furry porn. Those don't happen without capitalism, so I doubt you'd convince many people to give it up.
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
Most people like things like clothes, nutritious food, warm safe housing, modern healthcare, and furry porn. Those don't happen without capitalism, so I doubt you'd convince many people to give it up.
You think people weren't cared for without monetary incentives? You think art didnt happen without monetary incentives? Housing? Food? Clothes?
Before capitalism these things existed and still advanced. the only thing capitalism has really done is increased the rate at which we wastefully strip resources beyond what is needed and dispose of food that would impact the capital gains if flooded into the market for sale or incentivize wars, etc.

All it has lead to is an acceleration in the decent of the planet being thrown into a climate crisis and this species being blinded by greed to realize that we should drop the pursuit of dollars to fix that.

Heck capitalism even limits and restricts the things you outline and leaves many without even though there are surpluses. like the amount of homeless in America? there are what 4 or 5 houses uninhabited held by banks for every 1 homeless person? The kids who cant afford lunches or food? lets go back to the waste of destroying crops so as to not over supply and hurt the price at sale? Healthcare? good luck if you call an ambulance that is 900 baseline before any care from the emt's on top of the cost for the hospital itself.

Capitalism is a system that rewards the greediest and rewards the destruction of the planet it is realistically one of the worst creations of our species.

And a digital currency wont be fixing that nor will it stop governments from waging their wars either. It like my dream of a non capitalist world is a pipedream that while it may seem fanciful to you wont come to bear the fruit you seem to desire.

And trying to sell it to others as some island to save them is really idk... dangerous? like what if it does tank and someone loses all they put into it and now they cant afford healthcare housing food clothes or anything from the capitalist environment? or if governments divine a method to bar the currency from being useable outside of darkweb transactions?


Because if you get rid of the dollar, someone will put something else in its place. Think boring fetch quests in an MMO. Except YOU have to find a way to do it in real life.

We're not living in an age where we have to go berry-picking for a small family or village of ten. We're talking literal millions. Farmers already get treated like crap, so I wouldn't wish that kind of responsibility on any of them. And nurses? I'd hate to hear how many more people will outright quit because they're not getting paid. There goes anyone on life support/dying alone in a retirement home.

While I agree that not everything is dandy all around the world, and things could definitely be fixed, I enjoy my digital art-making, and I'm not about to drop it just because someone else deems my creative outlet as 'unnecessary'.
It is sad that you feel as though if people where to be afforded a society where they dont have to worry about monetary compensation but instead are able to get what they need that you think they would abandon professions like healthcare and such.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
It is sad that you feel as though if people where to be afforded a society where they dont have to worry about monetary compensation but instead are able to get what they need that you think they would abandon professions like healthcare and such.
I'm not saying everyone would. But there wouldn't be enough to support our current population. Heck, we don't even have enough in the medical field as is!
 

PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
You don't have to convince anyone else to get it. If a bomb is falling and you get into a bomb shelter, you don't get to convince others to get in to benefit from being in that shelter. Bitcoin is the bomb shelter where the bomb is hyperinflation and currency controls. But if you live in a priviliged country it's not for you.
Yea, thats the thing. Any time someone tries to sell me something with sensationalism I completely shut down. Trying to frighten me with terms like "hyperinflation" and "currency control" won't work. I have an understanding of how the economy works and how investing works. Don't insult my intelligence. Further, trying to shame me with privileged talk aint it either. I don't know you from Adam, and you don't know me either, so you need to watch your tone.

The whole thing that happened with Gamestop happened because you have to have a hedgefund to really game Wallstreet. You have to have access to traders to really invest in the latest and greatest thing. If you don't have the resources to be agile, you stand to lose ALOT of money. Cryptocurrency is just another one of those things.

If you have a retirement account with hundreds of thousands of dollars saved back, for example, the only way to insulate yourself from inflation are trusted commodities like gold or silver. The only thing is, you already have to have a large sum of cash to invest in things like precious metals- they don't make you money, they just protect you from inflation. Cryptocurrency just aint it. And it also requires a lot of people to buy into its value in order for it to have value. Thats how currency works.

Any way. The language people use to talk about it, it has the same context as an MLM. And I don't like it.
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
I'm not saying everyone would. But there wouldn't be enough to support our current population. Heck, we don't even have enough in the medical field as is!
and there are plenty people out there who would like to be in the medical field but are barred from it due to the shackles of capital preventing them from being able to get their foot into even pursuing the knowledge to become a member of the medical field.
Capital isnt a freeing mechanism it is an imprisoning one that holds people back and withholds what people need in order to live as I had outlined in my previous post here.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
and there are plenty people out there who would like to be in the medical field but are barred from it due to the shackles of capital preventing them from being able to get their foot into even pursuing the knowledge to become a member of the medical field.
Capital isnt a freeing mechanism it is an imprisoning one that holds people back and withholds what people need in order to live as I had outlined in my previous post here.

Just because someone volunteers doesn't mean they'll be qualified.

I don't see Capital as the problem, whereas the rules and laws surrounding it are. But that would be treading into politics methinks so I'll avoid that discussion.
 

Yakamaru

Your average Stand enjoyer
Or you can try thinking beyond an abstract plane of this has a monetary value to it and instead think in the sense of what I am saying with the rhetoric of abolishing capitalism.
How are you going to be able to pay or compensate the farmer for the produce he makes without a universal currency? How are you going to be able to compensate the manufacturer for spending their time manufacturing goods?
 

ConorHyena

road warrior
I feel like Bitcoin is proof that hyperdeflation is as problematic as hyperinflation.

other than that

tulpenzwiebel-.jpg
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
How are you going to be able to pay or compensate the farmer for the produce he makes without a universal currency? How are you going to be able to compensate the manufacturer for spending their time manufacturing goods?
same as how you'd pay those who provide protection or those who heal or those who build or teach and everyone else as I have stated prior... they get to partake in the yields of the others. you dont need a currency you just need to de-incentivize greed which is really a problem that gets magnified by capitalism and currency.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Actually that's EXACTLY why sensible investors keep flocking to Bitcoin and will continue to do so. They're looking for something that can't be changed, "cleaned," or in any way controlled by anyone, specifically because they're looking for something that doesn't require them to trust someone to not change it to their detriment. That Bitcoin even has those kind of links and STILL nobody can do a thing about it is the strength of that money, not its weakness.
I feel that is debatable since investors and researchers have already been exploring ways to excise the links from the blockchain ledger or using altered copies for verification, since they probably would rather not use a cryptocurrency backed by blockchain that contain links to active child pornography sites.
I skimmed it. I found a ton of numbers that made no sense based on what I know in reality, and claims that were just outright wrong or stupid. So I checked the sources, having suspicions about them. Found out the sources are all based on lies and fraud by some 20-yo kid whom I've known about for many years now. I believe MIT researchers, those who work in the power grid industry, and those who actually work in mining, over the guys who wrote your article who couldn't even be bothered to check if their numbers make sense, and aren't based on someone who uses those who reference HIS OWN WEBSITE as a reference for his claims (highly unethical circular reference).

In case you missed it, read this https://medium.com/crescofin/the-reports-of-bitcoin-environmental-damage-are-garbage-5a93d32c2d7
Reading is fundamental, Rassah.

I don't know where you are pulling that the authors are cites themselves and or faulty evidence, because the paper specifically other academic papers but more importantly the statistics on btc.com and you can trace the disclosures by the utility companies where the mining pools are located. It is widely accepted that at least 75% of all Bitcoin mining is done in China and that 57% of the country's power comes from coal. (It should also be noted that a crackdown on cryptocurrencies in China would deal a serious blow to cryptocurrencies worldwide, particularly to Bitcoin.) Furthermore, the mining pool locations correspond with rural areas that use coal power to fuel their operations.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
Really if you think about it those who try to push others into bitcoin are akin to those who run pyramid schemes.
Like here I am with my bitcoins
'Oh hello my young chap would you like to be wealthy etc etc etc?'
~Young chap listening in~
'Then get bit coin, tut tut tut'
~young chap gets into bitcoin, person already with bitcoin increases their own wealth through that. Young chap now needs more people to get into bitcoin before their wealth increases now~

So much like a pyramid scheme you gain nothing unless and until others get into it as well while those already in it reap the rewards of you putting your currency into it.

Feels very divisive and predatory really and again very seemingly motivated by the greed of those already in bitcoin to try and get others into it as they will just increase their own wealth.
 
D

Deleted member 144185

Guest
All I know is it is a very shady crypto currency used for private transactions.
 

Yakamaru

Your average Stand enjoyer
same as how you'd pay those who provide protection or those who heal or those who build or teach and everyone else as I have stated prior... they get to partake in the yields of the others. you dont need a currency you just need to de-incentivize greed which is really a problem that gets magnified by capitalism and currency.
And if someone refuse you to partake? Then what?
 

MechaMegs

The Red Menace
And if someone refuse you to partake? Then what?
And if someone refuses to partake in the capitalism? Then What?
That is how the question sounds if pointed back to you.
Though thing is people as a whole arent so lazy to just stop because there is no currency involved currency just became an extra step in things to make for more control over the populace and to enforce an abstract hierarchy in society based on presumed power due to amassing of currency.
People lived together progressed together advanced together before currency came into the picture and it can continue to do such without currency in the picture and would likely be the better for it as it would lift many of the gates that bar many from care that they need.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
How did people measure the value of things prior to currency?

I don't mind differing opinions on currency, but due to how present-day economics works a measurable value with intricacies is needed to sustain the way humans live. We may have - at one point, - traded goods. That just isn't something we can feasibly do anymore. Not just because of an arguable ill-prepared society, but due to it's sheer size. As trading goods for services was down in very small, manageable areas (and...this was also taken advantage of by local area leaders/lords in some cases as well --- causing many to starve or die from sickness). Hate digital currency all you like, but hating current modern currency and wishing for it to disappear is idiotic. From a logical standpoint. We simply have too big of a population to do that.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Just interjecting, but this book provides some valuable insights into the history and nature of money, trade, and obviously debt:


I don't agree too much with the man's politics, but his economic and historical insights are on the money.
 

PercyD

Lover of Beasty Baes
Really if you think about it those who try to push others into bitcoin are akin to those who run pyramid schemes.
Like here I am with my bitcoins
'Oh hello my young chap would you like to be wealthy etc etc etc?'
~Young chap listening in~
'Then get bit coin, tut tut tut'
~young chap gets into bitcoin, person already with bitcoin increases their own wealth through that. Young chap now needs more people to get into bitcoin before their wealth increases now~

So much like a pyramid scheme you gain nothing unless and until others get into it as well while those already in it reap the rewards of you putting your currency into it.

Feels very divisive and predatory really and again very seemingly motivated by the greed of those already in bitcoin to try and get others into it as they will just increase their own wealth.
Thats what I'm saaayiiin~. It's so skevvy! It's a multi-level marketing scheme!
 

Yakamaru

Your average Stand enjoyer
And if someone refuses to partake in the capitalism? Then What?
That is how the question sounds if pointed back to you.
Though thing is people as a whole arent so lazy to just stop because there is no currency involved currency just became an extra step in things to make for more control over the populace and to enforce an abstract hierarchy in society based on presumed power due to amassing of currency.
People lived together progressed together advanced together before currency came into the picture and it can continue to do such without currency in the picture and would likely be the better for it as it would lift many of the gates that bar many from care that they need.
I am asking you. If someone refused to give parts of their yield, then what? What would happen then?
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I am asking you. If someone refused to give parts of their yield, then what? What would happen then?

Sickness and death, most likely, which often did happen.
Unless they couldn't get mutual benefits elsewhere (and didn't choose to just take the other side by force anyway).

The brutality of history is a fun thing to dive into. Makes me grateful that we put stock into currency as a whole. This sort of stock prevents wars you know, even nuclear ones. I think I'll take my horrible capitalist greed and run with it over being stabbed for not giving someone my only loaf of bread for the week (or my farming land, or my firstborn daughter, or a goat, etc.).
 
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