Ceceil Felias said:
Congratulations on getting the Epic Fail of the Forever award, Roose Hurro, for a complete disregard for basic human courtesy and instead attempting to prove your point in the most asinine and self-reputation-destroying ways possible by trying to make it a pure biological issue when it was primarily a social issue in the first place. You deserve every bit of it, and I hope to see that your actions on this thread will haunt you for the rest of your days on FA.
Oh, but wait, you don't have much of a reputation to destroy, I just noticed. Good luck with your attitude repelling everything away from you, including a decent personal life.
Ahhh, so you know my personal life status now, hmmm? Okay, where'd you plant the camera? :twisted:
Tell me, is it courteous for someone to tell me they are one thing (female), and yet expect me to call them another (male)? That is not just a biological issue, it's a social issue of honesty towards others. For her to expect to be called a "him" when she's just confessed to being a "her"... well, as I said, from a social
point of view, I cannot play the lie, now that I know the truth about THIS ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL. I am being honest in my views, even though it's resulted in your "Epic Fail" award... yada yada yada. Tell me, is it socially acceptable to support lies now? How can I trust someone who pretends to be something they are not? Do I need to go on, and bring up other social issues connected with this whole "Pregnant Man" thing? I really need to get back with Surgat... study those links, so I can put together a proper rebuttal. However, if you insist, I'll go on....
Are you familiar with other situations in which people have deceived others, by appearing to be what they're not? One thing I do have to say in this lady's favor, despite her pretending to be a man, at least she's been honest in her confession. Perhaps that does negate her original dishonesty, in some eyes, but it does mean she can no longer rightfully hide behind the personal pronoun "he". Anyhow, we have veterans lying about their service records, politicians lying about their behavior to Congress... people lying to each other right and left, in pretty much every society on Earth. To me, it doesn't matter what different gender roles other cultures give to men and women. Yes, what is the gender/social role of a man in one culture can be reversed in another, but male is still male and female is still female... transsexuals don't earn a "get out of jail free" card, any more than any other social group. If a person is born male or female, then there is no amount of surgery... no amount of social pandering that changes that simple biological fact. "Gender reassignment" can't change a person's true sex, no matter what society says. That's both a biological and a practical truth. Tell me this... in all those cultures where gender roles are reversed, do the men have themselves surgically altered to look like women, while the women have themselves altered to look like men? No? Well... why forever not! I keep getting all this stuff thrown at me, as to why I should call a her a him... "basic human courtesy". Well, that courtesy works both ways.
Don't tell me you're a woman, and expect me to refer to you as a "him", when you have just told me you're not. I don't care how much surgery you've had to hide your true sex. Should I dredge up an analogy? Should I say this is like someone confessing they're a pedo, but expecting me not to call the police, now that I know? Yes, a very harsh example... perhaps not the best... but you could put together your own scenario, based on this pattern. How about your boyfriend/girlfriend confessing that they've slept with someone else, but still saying they love you? Is any of this "social" enough for you? Yes? No? Don't care? Want more? Got milk?
See, it's one thing, this whole definition of sex and gender... sex being biological, gender being social. Or so I've been informed. I see transsexuals as being different from the cultural aspect of gender roles, since they are the only people I know of who actually alter their bodies to fit, by having their sexual parts removed and/or otherwise sugically altered to fit. Please, feel free to do your own legwork, to bring up actual examples of different cultural gender roles, in which men stay men and women stay women, biologically and anatomically speaking, without going under the knife. At least these people are being honest, both biologically and socially.
Let me put it to you this way... if science ever came up with a way to truely make a man a woman, and a woman a man, only then will I accept using the appropriate pronoun, for a person whose sex has truely been changed. Till then, the only way I'd call a woman "he" or a man "her" is if I have no knowledge of their transsexualism. I will not lie to myself.
By the way, don't we have someone here who's made a thread on the subject of "morality"...?