I feel incredible, says pregnant man
- Thread starter Bokracroc
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IceDragonVisy
Member
Rilvor said:The picture was a mind-fuckbricks were shat
Is it bad that I wasn't affected by the image at all?
eternal_flare
voice of guilmon!
wait wait, did my reading skipped something.
I can't find who is the father of the daughter in her belly.
I can't find who is the father of the daughter in her belly.
ramsay_baggins
WINTERFELL!
It was on the news today over here and apparently it's a hoax, I'm not quite sure. To be honest, that picture didn't really freak me out that much. I've seen many more disturbing things than that. However, I must say that I would class "him" as a "her". Chromosomes determine your sex.
Surgat
Where is your mod now?
Roose Hurro said:
I don’t see how the fact that these syndromes are atypical changes anything. The fact is, as those examples prove, your chromosomal sex doesn’t have to match up with your gonadal and hormonal sex. That’s because, like I said, biology has three different sex categories.
As to the reconstruction bit, you’ve missed the point.
Most people, like yourself as indicated in a later post, go on phonotypical traits –gonads- in classifying someone as a certain sex. If you actually decided that chromosomal sex was the “one true sexual classification†for whatever reason [whim], you would have to refer to everybody in the gender-neutral third person singular, “they†until they’ve had their karyotype tested, instead of “he†or “she.†You wouldn’t know if you were male or not. However, you classify yourself as male, and refer to other people as “he†or “she†without this information, so you haven’t actually decided that chromosomal sex was the “one true sex.â€
As to gonadal sex, it obviously doesn’t matter too much for the purposes of classification if they are artificial, and thus it can sort of be changed. Someone with a reconstructed, mostly artificial cock is male in this sense; someone with an artificial vagina is female (sort of, in this sense).
Roose Hurro said:
I am utterly disgusted by the amount of just complete blind ignorance and intolerance in this thread.
Furries are supposed to be accepting my ass. Holy crap.
This guy is a man. I'm sorry for those people who seem to think differently, but your ignorance doesn't change the facts. He's transsexual, but he's as much of a man as any biological male. So he's pregnant, who cares? He's physically capable of it, he wanted a child, so he did it. That doesn't make him any less of a man.
And the pronouns are HE and HIS. Have some respect. Thanks and have a nice day.
Furries are supposed to be accepting my ass. Holy crap.
This guy is a man. I'm sorry for those people who seem to think differently, but your ignorance doesn't change the facts. He's transsexual, but he's as much of a man as any biological male. So he's pregnant, who cares? He's physically capable of it, he wanted a child, so he did it. That doesn't make him any less of a man.
And the pronouns are HE and HIS. Have some respect. Thanks and have a nice day.
Mothball Wombat said:
Actually, it's blind ingnorance to call a woman a man, when you know the truth. Oh, and I fixed your post as best I could... no need to thank me. As for your intolerance fingerpointing, I've never said she didn't have the freedom to choose personal mutilation, in order to appear male, just that it was a lie, and that I don't support lies. If someone shows me an orange, paints it red, and insists it's an apple, that won't make me call that orange something it isn't. Apples are apples, and oranges are oranges. Get the point? Had she kept her mouth shut, this wouldn't be an issue.
Well, acutally, for me... this whole thread is a non-issue, since it has no bearing on my personal life. I just saw a bunch of "blindly ingnorant" people calling an orange an apple, and I had to correct the error. If you have a problem with that, then that's your problem, not mine. However, I won't hold it against you, since you are just as free to express your views on the matter as I am. You see, by your own admission, ignorance doesn't change the facts... even if I hadn't been told, and believed this person to be male, that wouldn't have changed the fact SHE is female. So, I beg to differ... "he" is in no way comparable any biological male, because "he" is BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE! Got it, now?
Have some sense. Oh, and have a nice day. :mrgreen:
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Ceceil Felias
Never have I seen fail so huge
Congratulations on getting the Epic Fail of the Forever award, Roose Hurro, for a complete disregard for basic human courtesy and instead attempting to prove your point in the most asinine and self-reputation-destroying ways possible by trying to make it a pure biological issue when it was primarily a social issue in the first place. You deserve every bit of it, and I hope to see that your actions on this thread will haunt you for the rest of your days on FA.
Oh, but wait, you don't have much of a reputation to destroy, I just noticed. Good luck with your attitude repelling everything away from you, including a decent personal life.
Oh, but wait, you don't have much of a reputation to destroy, I just noticed. Good luck with your attitude repelling everything away from you, including a decent personal life.
Ceceil Felias said:
Ahhh, so you know my personal life status now, hmmm? Okay, where'd you plant the camera? :twisted:
Tell me, is it courteous for someone to tell me they are one thing (female), and yet expect me to call them another (male)? That is not just a biological issue, it's a social issue of honesty towards others. For her to expect to be called a "him" when she's just confessed to being a "her"... well, as I said, from a social point of view, I cannot play the lie, now that I know the truth about THIS ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL. I am being honest in my views, even though it's resulted in your "Epic Fail" award... yada yada yada. Tell me, is it socially acceptable to support lies now? How can I trust someone who pretends to be something they are not? Do I need to go on, and bring up other social issues connected with this whole "Pregnant Man" thing? I really need to get back with Surgat... study those links, so I can put together a proper rebuttal. However, if you insist, I'll go on....
Are you familiar with other situations in which people have deceived others, by appearing to be what they're not? One thing I do have to say in this lady's favor, despite her pretending to be a man, at least she's been honest in her confession. Perhaps that does negate her original dishonesty, in some eyes, but it does mean she can no longer rightfully hide behind the personal pronoun "he". Anyhow, we have veterans lying about their service records, politicians lying about their behavior to Congress... people lying to each other right and left, in pretty much every society on Earth. To me, it doesn't matter what different gender roles other cultures give to men and women. Yes, what is the gender/social role of a man in one culture can be reversed in another, but male is still male and female is still female... transsexuals don't earn a "get out of jail free" card, any more than any other social group. If a person is born male or female, then there is no amount of surgery... no amount of social pandering that changes that simple biological fact. "Gender reassignment" can't change a person's true sex, no matter what society says. That's both a biological and a practical truth. Tell me this... in all those cultures where gender roles are reversed, do the men have themselves surgically altered to look like women, while the women have themselves altered to look like men? No? Well... why forever not! I keep getting all this stuff thrown at me, as to why I should call a her a him... "basic human courtesy". Well, that courtesy works both ways.
Don't tell me you're a woman, and expect me to refer to you as a "him", when you have just told me you're not. I don't care how much surgery you've had to hide your true sex. Should I dredge up an analogy? Should I say this is like someone confessing they're a pedo, but expecting me not to call the police, now that I know? Yes, a very harsh example... perhaps not the best... but you could put together your own scenario, based on this pattern. How about your boyfriend/girlfriend confessing that they've slept with someone else, but still saying they love you? Is any of this "social" enough for you? Yes? No? Don't care? Want more? Got milk?
See, it's one thing, this whole definition of sex and gender... sex being biological, gender being social. Or so I've been informed. I see transsexuals as being different from the cultural aspect of gender roles, since they are the only people I know of who actually alter their bodies to fit, by having their sexual parts removed and/or otherwise sugically altered to fit. Please, feel free to do your own legwork, to bring up actual examples of different cultural gender roles, in which men stay men and women stay women, biologically and anatomically speaking, without going under the knife. At least these people are being honest, both biologically and socially.
Let me put it to you this way... if science ever came up with a way to truely make a man a woman, and a woman a man, only then will I accept using the appropriate pronoun, for a person whose sex has truely been changed. Till then, the only way I'd call a woman "he" or a man "her" is if I have no knowledge of their transsexualism. I will not lie to myself.
By the way, don't we have someone here who's made a thread on the subject of "morality"...?
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You obviously have a lack of the most basic understanding of the concept of what it means to be transsexual.
For some reason (beyond anything I can comprehend) people have this strange disability to understand the concept of transsexuality as a medical disorder instead of a choice.
People are born with all sorts of strange deformities. Multiple limbs, unrecognizable sex organs, both sex organs, no eyes, no face, even on a biological and chromosomal level people are sometimes unclassifiable as one sex or the other. There are people who have developed as nothing short of recognizably male while lacking any Y chromosomes, and at the same time, there are people who have developed to looking ordinarily female, while in the possession of a Y chromosome.
To pretend that it's so easy to say that someone is lying or to say that they MUST be this or they MUST be that in regards to their sex or gender is completely silly.
Why most people can't wrap their minds around the concept that, perhaps, someone may have developed improperly in the womb so that their brain does not align with their body and therefore causes intense dysphoria is beyond me.
The matter isn't whether the brain is 'right' or the body is 'right'. There have been years and years and years of intense psychological discussion and evaluation and testing and it's NEVER been shown to 'work' with transsexuals. The only thing that 'works', in such a way that it relieves the debilitating dysphoria and allows them to live something resembling a normal life, is to change their bodies.
And as human beings that, really, are only trying to work with what they've got and live the most normal life as possible for them, you are extending them no help by saying they are liars or calling them by the incorrect pronouns. Maybe you don't care, but personally I would hope that if I were born with some sort of horrible birth defect that left me mutilated and feeling awful about myself, I wouldn't be met with such blind intolerance.
So excuse me, sir, but really quite frankly, I feel as though you are a subclass human being that simply wants some sort of attention or something so you spout off shit you know absolutely NOTHING about in an attempt to create that for yourself. And that's sad.
For some reason (beyond anything I can comprehend) people have this strange disability to understand the concept of transsexuality as a medical disorder instead of a choice.
People are born with all sorts of strange deformities. Multiple limbs, unrecognizable sex organs, both sex organs, no eyes, no face, even on a biological and chromosomal level people are sometimes unclassifiable as one sex or the other. There are people who have developed as nothing short of recognizably male while lacking any Y chromosomes, and at the same time, there are people who have developed to looking ordinarily female, while in the possession of a Y chromosome.
To pretend that it's so easy to say that someone is lying or to say that they MUST be this or they MUST be that in regards to their sex or gender is completely silly.
Why most people can't wrap their minds around the concept that, perhaps, someone may have developed improperly in the womb so that their brain does not align with their body and therefore causes intense dysphoria is beyond me.
The matter isn't whether the brain is 'right' or the body is 'right'. There have been years and years and years of intense psychological discussion and evaluation and testing and it's NEVER been shown to 'work' with transsexuals. The only thing that 'works', in such a way that it relieves the debilitating dysphoria and allows them to live something resembling a normal life, is to change their bodies.
And as human beings that, really, are only trying to work with what they've got and live the most normal life as possible for them, you are extending them no help by saying they are liars or calling them by the incorrect pronouns. Maybe you don't care, but personally I would hope that if I were born with some sort of horrible birth defect that left me mutilated and feeling awful about myself, I wouldn't be met with such blind intolerance.
So excuse me, sir, but really quite frankly, I feel as though you are a subclass human being that simply wants some sort of attention or something so you spout off shit you know absolutely NOTHING about in an attempt to create that for yourself. And that's sad.
Ceceil Felias
Never have I seen fail so huge
Roose Hurro said:
I must've hit something sensitive there to get that kind of response.
And hurray to Mothball Wombat for countering a bullshit biological-only-fuck-the-social-aspect viewpoint with some biological-viewpoint truth. I doubt he'll listen anyway, though, because Roose is a douche no matter what the hell you do to him. :F
Surgat
Where is your mod now?
Roose Hurro said:
>>"Tell me this... in all those cultures where gender roles are reversed, do the men have themselves surgically altered to look like women, while the women have themselves altered to look like men?"
Hahaha. What? Do you even read what you type? This hardly even makes any sense. I'm having trouble coming up with examples of anything like it to show how absurd it is.
Okay, so for cultures where it's considered "unmanly" to do physical labor, or "manly" to curl your hair and wear makeup, why do you think we think they'd modify themselves to be like the opposite sex? What does the specific content of a gender role or a society's conception of gender have to do with biological sex?
The closest example of similar reasoning I can come up with would be something like "if someone was white and raised as a Hindu, since Hindus are typically Indian, does that person try to make themselves look like an Indian? [No, therefore they're not really Hindu and if I have them over for a dinner party or something and I'm serving something with a beef product in it, I'm not going to tell them because it's not important to non-Hindu. If they find out I'll just tell them I was being honest.]" This isn't exactly the same of course, as the brain structures of Indians, Whites, Hindus, and Non-Hindus aren't structured differently like between transsexuals and other people.
Speaking of other cultures, in more primitive societies, when someone who's biologically male wants to be female, starts acting like women, i.e. doing women's dances in the women's section, starts wearing women's clothing or accessories, takes a woman's name, etc. they start referring to her as "she." I read about it in Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies somewhere.
On a side note, I like it when people in primitive and ancient societies are smarter than individuals in modern ones. The Egyptians knew enough to store food and give it out to the poor in hard times, like droughts. The Sumerians knew enough to have public education. The Persians knew enough to not pollute their drinking water. However social programs, public education, and environmental protection laws aren't on the agenda of certain prominent contemporary political parties.
Anyways, those primitives are smarter than you. Like I said earlier, you don't need to run a test to find out someone's chromosomes to determine whether you should call them "he" or "she," or check their medical records to make sure they don't have nuticles or something. That would be like referring to people with different pronouns based on their blood type or hair color. Instead, use of "he" or "she" depends on gender.
In my opinion...
There's your gender physically (and a little more), and your gender mentally. For most of use the two match up. Some people just plain identify themselves as a member of the the opposite gender.
A sex-change is to make the physical correspond with the mental.
The hilarious thing is how this is connected to the furry lifestyle, yet so many are "squicked" by it... consider this, surgery to make one more like the animal you identify with? I think a good number of furries would jump for that if they had the funds. I can imagine this almost exact story except with a now-furry human, on some other board, with people being idiots and being all grossed out, etc.
As for using "he" or "she"... it's still one syllable, it costs me no more breath to say either. So, I would respect the person's choice and call them by the gender they chose.
There's your gender physically (and a little more), and your gender mentally. For most of use the two match up. Some people just plain identify themselves as a member of the the opposite gender.
A sex-change is to make the physical correspond with the mental.
The hilarious thing is how this is connected to the furry lifestyle, yet so many are "squicked" by it... consider this, surgery to make one more like the animal you identify with? I think a good number of furries would jump for that if they had the funds. I can imagine this almost exact story except with a now-furry human, on some other board, with people being idiots and being all grossed out, etc.
As for using "he" or "she"... it's still one syllable, it costs me no more breath to say either. So, I would respect the person's choice and call them by the gender they chose.
Hakumei Ookami
Member
I've discussed this on another forum, people seem to have a hard time understanding the ethics behind this because what we have here is a person who has the mind and the body of a man, but the sexual organs of a woman. The situation here, remember, is perfectly natural, as the desire to have children is a human desire and his wife cannot bear children, so they settled for the next best thing. As long as no harm comes to the child, it's a perfectly happy thing to do; and of course, no harm will come to the child.
Get-dancing
Member
Why would anyone want a sex change? Think, you're not really a woman, you're just a man with your penis turned outside-in. And what do they do when its a woman wanting to be a man? Do they stitch an extra bit on? Lets not forget how Michael Jackson changed his apearence because how he felt he was born in the wrong body.
Once I was taking a piss in a public toilet with my friend, and a woman pretending to be a man came up next to me and pretended to pee. Then when I left she went in the cubical.
Once I was taking a piss in a public toilet with my friend, and a woman pretending to be a man came up next to me and pretended to pee. Then when I left she went in the cubical.
