I have some issues with CoC 2.7's Update...

[Oblique Lynx]

And no. You're an alt-righter if your ideology matches enough of the things the alt right believes. Even if you're not actually an alt-righter, if enough of the views match up, it's fair to say those views have no place in society and every effort should be made to keep them from running our society.

How does national conservatism stack up?

As long as it's a generic character (or a character belonging to someone who's explicitly okay with it) getting punched, and not the fursona of some Antifa-identifying furry, far as I'm aware, yes. I see nothing in policy indicating otherwise, and I know it would have been permitted when I was on staff same as the nazi-punching work. That said, it's probably kind of social suicide to post such.

Well I can get behind it being equal like that then

 

[Yakamaru]

That's a flawed question. No law is being upheld in SWATing - it's harassment (and endangerment) by sending police to raid innocent people. Here, the individual(s) who identified Tim Pool and co as nationalists on Twitter, painted them as targets for vigilante "justice" (keep in mind that vigilantism isn't only about civilians taking into their own hands to uphold actual law, but also to uphold law that they feel should be in place). You are still painting the situation as being entirely based on the judgment of the individuals committing the assault, which doesn't jive with the account in Pool's video.

Tim Pool. A Nationalist? What? The hell are these people smoking?

 

[webkilla]

And no. You're an alt-righter if your ideology matches enough of the things the alt right believes. Even if you're not actually an alt-righter, if enough of the views match up, it's fair to say those views have no place in society and every effort should be made to keep them from running our society. Right wing populist nationalism is currently the biggest threat to liberal democracy. Everyone has an obligation to try and keep that dream alive, and that starts by fighting against these views and keeping them out of government.

Your arguments are cleverly styled pseudo logical rants. I can say what you say in 5 paragraphs, in 5 sentences, because I know what I stand for and don't need to mentally masturbate first.

Are you aware of what you're saying here?

You see, quite a lot of the alt right believe strongly in freedom of speech (since places like FA, much of social media and other forums keep trying to silence them). I believe in freedom of speech too - does that make me alt right?

I also believe workers rights, does that make me a communist?

I believe that it is a state's moral and ethical duty to uphold the nation's sovereignty and to protect its borders - does that make me a nationalist?

I also think that open borders is a bad idea and that immigration should be controlled - does that make me a racist?

I also like the idea of a welfare state that helps the poor and redistributes a certain amount of wealth - does that make me a socialist?

I also like to occasionally listen to Hasidic jewish music and cook up some hummus - does that make me a jew?

How much is "enough" before you can be branded as "one of them" ?


Do you see how dangerous the 'logic' you're using there is?

And you complain that other people's posts are cleverly styles rants? You clearly do NOT understand what you're asking for here.


Equally, if we look back over the last hundred or so years, then left wing populism - socialism and communism - has killed far more people than right wing populism and nationalism did. The USSR starved more people to death than the nazis ever managed to force into gas-chambers. That part of history is very well documented.

Tim Pool. A Nationalist? What? The hell are these people smoking?

It was the german antifa that called Tim Poole an 'identitarian' and fascist - and basically marked him as a target if caught, to which end he left Hamburg and the G20 summit early.

 

[Yakamaru]

It was the german antifa that called Tim Poole an 'identitarian' and fascist - and basically marked him as a target if caught, to which end he left Hamburg and the G20 summit early.

I know. The G20 summit was a disaster. ANTIFA was running amok over there.

 

[webkilla]

I know. The G20 summit was a disaster. ANTIFA was running amok over there.

and yet Dragoneer have said that he couldn't find any evidence of antifa being a hate group, or terrorist group, or whatever you want to call it - so that it falls under the CoC rules.

Hell its the same trouble that americans had in Iraq: Sure there were taliban cells, but for the most part what united the insurgents they were fighting was simply a shared ideology - one informed by a particular religion.

antifa is like that, as has been covered already in this thread: its a roughly shared set of beliefs. The problem is that at the core of these beliefs is, as far as I can tell - based on press coverage, youtube video statements from antifa members and so on, a set of tenets that encourage if not demand violence done upon anyone marked as an enemy of the faith, uhm... I mean the ideology.

The problem in this sense is that - as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread - anyone can call themselves antifa, or claim to be part of it.

However, just like not all football fans put on team jerseys and team-colored face paint, then not all antifa jokers put on black clothes and form up in black blocks and smash shop windows or light cars on fire.

...and its that extreme side of antifa that certain US government agencies have already labeled as domestic terrorists.

But the rest of them are still supporting these terrorists, posting pictures in support - pictures the extol the virtues of how righteous it is to "bash the fash" or commit other flavors of political violence.


And I don't like that. Political violence of any sort is bad - and posting imagery in support of that is something that the FA mods and admins can say is not allowed, no matter what that violence is in support of!

 

[LuxVolans]

Your arguments are cleverly styled pseudo logical rants. I can say what you say in 5 paragraphs, in 5 sentences, because I know what I stand for and don't need to mentally masturbate first.

I'd recommend you actually check the word count.


Yet, at the same time, you've contradicted yourself. If "Everyone has an obligation to try and keep that dream alive, and that starts by fighting against fascism." Then that means that everyone that disavows or disagrees with the Alt-right must fight for the cause that AntiFa does.

Then that means that using your own logic: "You're an alt-righter if your ideology matches enough of the things the alt right believes" Then so too does this apply the other way. You're a member of AntiFa, or at least, an AntiFa apologist if you hate Alt-Right, or try to fight white supremacy and Fascism.

 

[BahgDaddy]

You can belly-ache all you want - my points still stand

and for someone who claims not to be an antifa-supporter, you sure seem keen on trying to present them in the nicest way possible - though if you sincerely mean what you say about not wanting violence, and preferring logic, reason and public debate then I'm all there with you.

Mind you, you go to the exact same name-calling with the "beer belly demonstrations" - so no moral high horse you, but nice sentiment.

Usually I am expecting that the less educated someone is, and the less ability they have to be critical thinkers, the more likely they are to lean right, and the further it goes, the more likely they are to lean extreme or alt right. (There's a lot of crossover between far and alt right.)

Hey gang - 2 the ranting gryphon had a fun little adventure investigating the Alt Furry

His discovery: No they're no nazis, and they share a ton of porn. He even asked why the furries there, were there - and got a lot of very interesting non-nazi related stories that seemed to center on having been abused by SJWs and antifa supporters, and thus felt pushed out of the regular fandom.

Take from that what you want - but he found no evidence that it was a vile hive of racism and white supremacy. Sure, there were a few white supremacists there, but there were also people there who challenged them on their ideas and took up a discussion on the topic, presenting alternate viewpoints.

2 basically sums it up talking about how left wing censors are taking over the furry fandom and excluding anyone who aren't agreeing with them.

This is why antifa is bad. This why the CoC needs to reflect that

They're furries. Of course they share porn.

However alt furry is very much alt right. We've been over this a few times before in previous threads. Basically you had s few people pointing out that they're alt right and a few people trying to use long, meandering blocks of text to circumnavigate that.

How does national conservatism stack up?



Well I can get behind it being equal like that then

What beliefs do you think national conservativism holds? Odds are I will disagree but won't throw it under the bus. I generally hold nationalism to be a reactionary, fear driven belief set, however.

Are you aware of what you're saying here?

You see, quite a lot of the alt right believe strongly in freedom of speech (since places like FA, much of social media and other forums keep trying to silence them). I believe in freedom of speech too - does that make me alt right?

I also believe workers rights, does that make me a communist?

I believe that it is a state's moral and ethical duty to uphold the nation's sovereignty and to protect its borders - does that make me a nationalist?

I also think that open borders is a bad idea and that immigration should be controlled - does that make me a racist?

I also like the idea of a welfare state that helps the poor and redistributes a certain amount of wealth - does that make me a socialist?

I also like to occasionally listen to Hasidic jewish music and cook up some hummus - does that make me a jew?

How much is "enough" before you can be branded as "one of them" ?


Do you see how dangerous the 'logic' you're using there is?

And you complain that other people's posts are cleverly styles rants? You clearly do NOT understand what you're asking for here.


Equally, if we look back over the last hundred or so years, then left wing populism - socialism and communism - has killed far more people than right wing populism and nationalism did. The USSR starved more people to death than the nazis ever managed to force into gas-chambers. That part of history is very well documented.



It was the german antifa that called Tim Poole an 'identitarian' and fascist - and basically marked him as a target if caught, to which end he left Hamburg and the G20 summit early.

I believe in free speech too.

I also believe in propert rights.

And FA happens to be private property and can kick whomever they want off their property. It's not discrimination to hold someone accountable for their beliefs and actions. You apologists seem to want people to be able to get away with whatever hate speech they'd like. I see no reason to endorse a private company allowing hate speech. In fact it's just bad for business.

Oh. Socialism and communism don't kill people. People kill people.

Did that sound stupid? Because that's what pro 2nd amendment people sound like.

Seriously though, dictatorship is what caused those situations to fail. Also, while people starving is unfortunate, it is not on the same moral ground as deliberately gassing an entire ethnic group. Just keep reaching, eventually you'll burn yourself on the sun.

As for your examples. Of course those single items don't make you those groups. Why would you think they did?

I'd recommend you actually check the word count.


Yet, at the same time, you've contradicted yourself. If "Everyone has an obligation to try and keep that dream alive, and that starts by fighting against fascism." Then that means that everyone that disavows or disagrees with the Alt-right must fight for the cause that AntiFa does.

Then that means that using your own logic: "You're an alt-righter if your ideology matches enough of the things the alt right believes" Then so too does this apply the other way. You're a member of AntiFa, or at least, an AntiFa apologist if you hate Alt-Right, or try to fight white supremacy and Fascism.

Hey, let's try something novel. Stop trying to tell me what I mean. Because it's just making you look like you don't know what you're talking about, which we already knew anyway, but really.

 

[Oblique Lynx]

What beliefs do you think national conservativism holds? Odds are I will disagree but won't throw it under the bus. I generally hold nationalism to be a reactionary, fear driven belief set, however.

Well, generally a more traditional view on social issues mixed in with belief of the needs of one's country coming before any other. Of note, at least more presonally, there's the need for keeping a relatively strong military force and a government that has a good bit more power than what is current.

Personal views on the matter:

Spoiler

• Limiting immigration but not halting it. Rather, ensuring a strict and thorough process that must be followed. They must be of some use or potential use
• Refuge can be considered but, again, must be a thorough process and ensure those that seek it are eligible. If one crosses illegally then they should lose any right for future consideration into the country on the grounds of refuge
• One's country and its needs comes before others. This applies to immigrants provided they've come legally
• The keeping of traditional gender roles to an extent in regards to families. I acknowledge that studies have been done with same sex couples and their children not really differing in things like test scores
• Acceptance that the government having a bit more of a watchful eye is necessary to help ensure safety within the country
• Abolishing asinine legislation like affirmative action and instead instating tougher penalties on those found to be actively discriminating in a workplace setting
• More emphasis on punishing criminals
• Tougher laws and punishments with regards to illegal drugs such as weed. Preferably banning alcohol and tobacco as well
• Staying consistent with rulings and labeling of criminals

 

[webkilla]

Usually I am expecting that the less educated someone is, and the less ability they have to be critical thinkers, the more likely they are to lean right, and the further it goes, the more likely they are to lean extreme or alt right.

Well you are certainly holding your political opponents in high respect there. So by your logic, anyone with a degree or two is automatically left leaning, right?

I cannot even begin to explain how wrong you are. left vs tends to generally be a matter of age - from 18 to 30 people tend to be mostly left leaning, but as they grow older they become more right wing.

Or conversely, do you have ANY proof to back up your claim that low education correlates with right wing politics? I'll give you a clue: The social sciences are very heavily left-leaning - but in the STEM areas? Far more balanced. There ain't no such thing as marxist engineering, but marxist sociology? You bet.

And FA happens to be private property and can kick whomever they want off their property. It's not discrimination to hold someone accountable for their beliefs and actions. You apologists seem to want people to be able to get away with whatever hate speech they'd like. I see no reason to endorse a private company allowing hate speech. In fact it's just bad for business.

Oh. Socialism and communism don't kill people. People kill people.

Did that sound stupid? Because that's what pro 2nd amendment people sound like.

Seriously though, dictatorship is what caused those situations to fail. Also, while people starving is unfortunate, it is not on the same moral ground as deliberately gassing an entire ethnic group. Just keep reaching, eventually you'll burn yourself on the sun.

Oh wow... just, wow. You sure are good at making yourself sound very very bad.

1) my issue with the FA CoC is that it's hypocricy to ban one kind of political propaganda and not another. My whole point is specifically that the FA isn't holding antifa supporters accountable to their beliefs and the actions they promote!

2) oh so now I'm an apologist? Apologist for what? the alt right? You amazing hypocrite and liar! Where have I advocated for the alt right!?

But then again, you for make an amazing example to show how antifa supporters are perfectly willing to call anyone who isn't supporting them an alt right fascist. Because that's what I am in your eyes, right? Because I am trying to promote a bit of political equality, which means either banning antifa or allowing alt right stuff on FA? That clearly means I am 100% in support of the alt right, doesn't it?

No it doesn't you moron.

3) socialism and communism doesn't kill people?
Whelp, now we can add historical revisionism to the list of bullshit you've posted here.

How about this: Number of deaths in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia - and this is just for the USSR under Stalin. Somewhere between 9 to 50 million human beings.

but no... that wasn't communism or socialism, that was a dictatorship. No, it was communism. But you're clearly of the sort who thinks that "real communism" won't ever hurt anyone - wow... to be in denial like that, what a magical world you must live in.

And you say that its "unfortunate" for people to starve - and then say that gas chambers are worse. You have no clue what you're talking about. Slowly starving to death in a Ukrainian winter - no, that is far far worse.

Here's a new word for you: Holodomor - as in, holocaust - but it means "to kill by starvation"

Holodomor - Wikipedia - somewhere between 3.5 to 9 million ukrainian peasants, starved to death in 1932 to 1933, after the Red Army moved in and systematically confiscated pretty much all of their crops.

Hell, if hungry women went out into the harvested fields and picked up individual grains that had been missed during harvest they would be shot by the Red Army - if they tried to keep them for themselves or their family. It was the property of the people, and the people up north in the russian cities apparently needed it more, and they had to share... at gunpoint.


You know nothing - you accuse me of being an alt right apologist (or apologist for something) - and you clearly have no clue how badly every attempt at socialism and communism on this planet have ended. I haven't even started talking about the Khmer Rouge, or Venezuela.


Oh and fun fact: antifa tends to be surprisingly socialist and communist in its political outlook, but the optics of presenting yourself as a mob of militant and violent mob of masked communists doesn't really sell as well as showing up as a violent mob of anti-fascists. So... no. Just no. FA staff: ammend the CoC, either ban antifa on equal terms with the alt right, or allow for both.

 

[BahgDaddy]

Well, generally a more traditional view on social issues mixed in with belief of the needs of one's country coming before any other. Of note, at least more presonally, there's the need for keeping a relatively strong military force and a government that has a good bit more power than what is current.

Personal views on the matter:

Spoiler

• Limiting immigration but not halting it. Rather, ensuring a strict and thorough process that must be followed. They must be of some use or potential use
• Refuge can be considered but, again, must be a thorough process and ensure those that seek it are eligible. If one crosses illegally then they should lose any right for future consideration into the country on the grounds of refuge
• One's country and its needs comes before others. This applies to immigrants provided they've come legally
• The keeping of traditional gender roles to an extent in regards to families. I acknowledge that studies have been done with same sex couples and their children not really differing in things like test scores
• Acceptance that the government having a bit more of a watchful eye is necessary to help ensure safety within the country
• Abolishing asinine legislation like affirmative action and instead instating tougher penalties on those found to be actively discriminating in a workplace setting
• More emphasis on punishing criminals
• Tougher laws and punishments with regards to illegal drugs such as weed. Preferably banning alcohol and tobacco as well
• Staying consistent with rulings and labeling of criminals

I am of the belief that your views create a more rigid, less enjoyable, and more criminalized society. Your policies would also damage marginalized people and reduce their chances for success, and stricter punishment for criminals only increases our police state and reduces freedom, true liberty.

Well you are certainly holding your political opponents in high respect there. So by your logic, anyone with a degree or two is automatically left leaning, right?

I cannot even begin to explain how wrong you are. left vs tends to generally be a matter of age - from 18 to 30 people tend to be mostly left leaning, but as they grow older they become more right wing.

Or conversely, do you have ANY proof to back up your claim that low education correlates with right wing politics? I'll give you a clue: The social sciences are very heavily left-leaning - but in the STEM areas? Far more balanced. There ain't no such thing as marxist engineering, but marxist sociology? You bet.





Oh wow... just, wow. You sure are good at making yourself sound very very bad.

1) my issue with the FA CoC is that it's hypocricy to ban one kind of political propaganda and not another. My whole point is specifically that the FA isn't holding antifa supporters accountable to their beliefs and the actions they promote!

2) oh so now I'm an apologist? Apologist for what? the alt right? You amazing hypocrite and liar! Where have I advocated for the alt right!?

But then again, you for make an amazing example to show how antifa supporters are perfectly willing to call anyone who isn't supporting them an alt right fascist. Because that's what I am in your eyes, right? Because I am trying to promote a bit of political equality, which means either banning antifa or allowing alt right stuff on FA? That clearly means I am 100% in support of the alt right, doesn't it?

No it doesn't you moron.

3) socialism and communism doesn't kill people?
Whelp, now we can add historical revisionism to the list of bullshit you've posted here.

How about this: Number of deaths in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia - and this is just for the USSR under Stalin. Somewhere between 9 to 50 million human beings.

but no... that wasn't communism or socialism, that was a dictatorship. No, it was communism. But you're clearly of the sort who thinks that "real communism" won't ever hurt anyone - wow... to be in denial like that, what a magical world you must live in.

And you say that its "unfortunate" for people to starve - and then say that gas chambers are worse. You have no clue what you're talking about. Slowly starving to death in a Ukrainian winter - no, that is far far worse.

Here's a new word for you: Holodomor - as in, holocaust - but it means "to kill by starvation"

Holodomor - Wikipedia - somewhere between 3.5 to 9 million ukrainian peasants, starved to death in 1932 to 1933, after the Red Army moved in and systematically confiscated pretty much all of their crops.

Hell, if hungry women went out into the harvested fields and picked up individual grains that had been missed during harvest they would be shot by the Red Army - if they tried to keep them for themselves or their family. It was the property of the people, and the people up north in the russian cities apparently needed it more, and they had to share... at gunpoint.


You know nothing - you accuse me of being an alt right apologist (or apologist for something) - and you clearly have no clue how badly every attempt at socialism and communism on this planet have ended. I haven't even started talking about the Khmer Rouge, or Venezuela.


Oh and fun fact: antifa tends to be surprisingly socialist and communist in its political outlook, but the optics of presenting yourself as a mob of militant and violent mob of masked communists doesn't really sell as well as showing up as a violent mob of anti-fascists. So... no. Just no. FA staff: ammend the CoC, either ban antifa on equal terms with the alt right, or allow for both.

Okay, you know what, have fun talking to yourself, since you really haven't paid a single wit of attention to anything I've said. I feel like you read someone else's posts and then went on some rant about how bad communism is, which isn't even what we're talking about. Of course communism is bad.

And yeah. The more educated someone becomes, the [more likely] they are to lean left. This is a natural consequence of becoming a more tolerant and well informed person. This is verifiable through stats.

And no. The current generation is staying liberal. Yay!

 

[Oblique Lynx]

I am of the belief that your views create a more rigid, less enjoyable, and more criminalized society. Your policies would also damage marginalized people and reduce their chances for success, and stricter punishment for criminals only increases our police state and reduces freedom, true liberty.

Rigid, yes, but it wouldn't make it more criminalized. Secondly, tougher response to crime is needed. We're much too lax on it as it is, when a government refuses to call law breakers criminals. Lastly, I believe we get too much in terms of help from the government. It feels like with all of these systems in place it's the government saying "hey, we think you're pretty lame and not able to prove yourself, so we're just gonna make things super easy for you."

 

[webkilla]

Okay, you know what, have fun talking to yourself, since you really haven't paid a single wit of attention to anything I've said. I feel like you read someone else's posts and then went on some rant about how bad communism is, which isn't even what we're talking about. Of course communism is bad.

And yeah. The more educated someone becomes, the [more likely] they are to lean left. This is a natural consequence of becoming a more tolerant and well informed person. This is verifiable through stats.

wow... just wow

You clearly have not been reading what I've been posting either - so right back at you there buddy. Also you never explained what I was an apologist for, nice dodge there skippy.

And there is NO proof that getting educated makes you more left leaning. None - but feel free to prove me wrong by citing a source on that.

No, hold that phone: www.npr.org: Why Are Highly Educated Americans Getting More Liberal? - Only problem is that this article completely fails to take into consideration what kind of degrees these people are getting. A lot more people (sadly, many of them women) are getting useless studies and gender studies degrees - which usually includes a ton of indoctrination into left-leaning political activism.

source: articles.niche.com: The Most Popular College Majors - and these numbers are from 2017

as I've already noted: the humanities tend to be overwhelmingly left leaning - so more humanities graduates, means that graduates appear to be more left leaning, more liberal, so of course that'll shift the stats - but that doesn't mean that all the other graduates are suddenly more left leaning as well. The current generation might stay partially liberal, but it'll be the other part that'll end up actually making money - you know, the ones with real degrees instead of gender study degrees.


oh and didn't you say earlier that communism didn't kill anyone? Yes you did - at least bloody admit you were wrong.

and don't forget - the antifa bike-lock basher was an adjunct professor of philosophy at Berkeley - you really have to wonder what exactly he taught his students, right? Which philosophies do you think he favored?


Antifa = bad news, either ban them on par with the alt right - or open the flood gates and be over with it.

 

[BahgDaddy]

Rigid, yes, but it wouldn't make it more criminalized. Secondly, tougher response to crime is needed. We're much too lax on it as it is, when a government refuses to call law breakers criminals. Lastly, I believe we get too much in terms of help from the government. It feels like with all of these systems in place it's the government saying "hey, we think you're pretty lame and not able to prove yourself, so we're just gonna make things super easy for you."

It would though. We already tried to make a more "peaceful" society with the war on drugs. All it did was throw hundreds of thousands in jail for the mere crime of smoking a largely harmless plant.

We tried the war on alcohol. It created a huge black market and many criminals.

We don't need to crack down on crime. Crime is a symptom of social unrest. When we target the things that are causing the unrest, then you will have a more peaceable society.

As for affirmative action. It's designed to give people who are disadvanted in some way a leg up so they can have a fair shot at things in life. Europe does far more to help their disadvantaged than we do, and it works. We have too many in America who think that poor people are poor because they're lazy, stupid, etc. This is absolutely not true.

 

[BahgDaddy]

wow... just wow

You clearly have not been reading what I've been posting either - so right back at you there buddy. Also you never explained what I was an apologist for, nice dodge there skippy.

And there is NO proof that getting educated makes you more left leaning. None - but feel free to prove me wrong by citing a source on that.

No, hold that phone: www.npr.org: Why Are Highly Educated Americans Getting More Liberal? - Only problem is that this article completely fails to take into consideration what kind of degrees these people are getting. A lot more people (sadly, many of them women) are getting useless studies and gender studies degrees - which usually includes a ton of indoctrination into left-leaning political activism.

source: articles.niche.com: The Most Popular College Majors - and these numbers are from 2017

as I've already noted: the humanities tend to be overwhelmingly left leaning - so more humanities graduates, means that graduates appear to be more left leaning, more liberal, so of course that'll shift the stats - but that doesn't mean that all the other graduates are suddenly more left leaning as well. The current generation might stay partially liberal, but it'll be the other part that'll end up actually making money - you know, the ones with real degrees instead of gender study degrees.


oh and didn't you say earlier that communism didn't kill anyone? Yes you did - at least bloody admit you were wrong.

and don't forget - the antifa bike-lock basher was an adjunct professor of philosophy at Berkeley - you really have to wonder what exactly he taught his students, right? Which philosophies do you think he favored?


Antifa = bad news, either ban them on par with the alt right - or open the flood gates and be over with it.

Your arguments are completely based on opinion, falsehood, and knee jerk reactions.

Yes. The more educated you become, you more likely you are to lean left.

www.pewresearch.org: Educational divide in vote preferences on track to be wider than in recent elections

As again:

www.people-press.org: A Deep Dive Into Party Affiliation

And I never said communism didn't kill anyone.

I'm curious. What exactly is your education level?

 

[Oblique Lynx]

It would though. We already tried to make a more "peaceful" society with the war on drugs. All it did was throw hundreds of thousands in jail for the mere crime of smoking a largely harmless plant.

We tried the war on alcohol. It created a huge black market and many criminals.

We don't need to crack down on crime. Crime is a symptom of social unrest. When we target the things that are causing the unrest, then you will have a more peaceable society.

As for affirmative action. It's designed to give people who are disadvanted in some way a leg up so they can have a fair shot at things in life. Europe does far more to help their disadvantaged than we do, and it works. We have too many in America who think that poor people are poor because they're lazy, stupid, etc. This is absolutely not true.

And being thrown in jail for taking an illegal drug is pretty justified. I know of prohibition and of the storm it caused, but it's still preferable to be rid of it at least officially

Maybe for some instances, but taking a hard stance to criminality in the process is definitely needed for any direction.

There's a point where you're being given more than you deserve to make up. Like I stated, I'm already being given more than enough. So much so that it's insulting to me as a person. It's less about proving yourself now and more about being given thrown at businesses that have to tread carefully about whether they're gonna hire me or not.

 

[BahgDaddy]

And being thrown in jail for taking an illegal drug is pretty justified. I know of prohibition and of the storm it caused, but it's still preferable to be rid of it at least officially

Maybe for some instances, but taking a hard stance to criminality in the process is definitely needed for any direction.

There's a point where you're being given more than you deserve to make up. Like I stated, I'm already being given more than enough. So much so that it's insulting to me as a person. It's less about proving yourself now and more about being given thrown at businesses that have to tread carefully about whether they're gonna hire me or not.

I can agree on the affirmative action part a bit.

But what gives you the moral authority to dictate what people can and cannot voluntarily put into their bodies?

 

[Oblique Lynx]

I can agree on the affirmative action part a bit.

But what gives you the moral authority to dictate what people can and cannot voluntarily put into their bodies?

Personal and public safety. Drug-addled people pose a threat both physically and mentally while drug-addicts pose the risk of taking space in medical institutions that would otherwise have been better utilized

 

[BahgDaddy]

How about you tell the rest of us your education level first - as a show of good faith? You seem to think that you have the answers to everything.


...and yet you claim that my arguments are completely based on opinion? Dude, can you lie any more blatantly? How many links to sources haven't I posted already?

Also



So... you either have a very short memory, or you can't keep your story straight, or you're lying. Pick one.'

Now, with regards to the two links you posted: Those stats are NOT looking at what those graduates got their degrees in. My point stands. Hell I basically linked to the same stuff to prove my own point - congratulations: You played yourself.


Now, to repeat myself: You never did tell me what I'm an apologist for... come on, it can't be that hard to say.

also:

Antifa = bad news, either ban them on par with the alt right - or open the flood gates and be over with it.


also also, in the latest of antifa assaults caught on camera:

- the 'fun' starts around 1:30, some random conservative journo gets mobbed and about one minute in attacked.

Hell its a really pathetic form of attack too - shoving, spitting, trying to walk into people or block them in obvious attempts at trying to set themselves up as victims, all the while the mob trails this woman and her buddy trying walk away.

But hey.. its ok right, antifa are totally the good guys here, right?

Nah. I don't feel like telling you anything about me. Your unwillingness to respond is telling, though.

My "communism doesn't kill" comment was a jab at the pro gun crowd. I'm sorry your sense of humor is damaged. You know what they say about people who don't get the joke soon enough, right?

And yeah. Your willingness to throw entire types of degrees out the window they they "indoctrinate" people is called cherry picking. I bet you've never set foot in a college class.

 

[BahgDaddy]

Personal and public safety. Drug-addled people pose a threat both physically and mentally while drug-addicts pose the risk of taking space in medical institutions that would otherwise have been better utilized

Throwing hard drugs into another debate, what about alchohol and marijuana? People using marijuana pose no social risk unless they drive while high, same if driving while intoxicated. The overall effects of legalizing marijuana have been resoundingly positive. Your stance flies in the face of reality. You can't, and shouldn't, force people to do things they don't want to.

 

[Oblique Lynx]

Throwing hard drugs into another debate, what about alchohol and marijuana? People using marijuana pose no social risk unless they drive while high, same if driving while intoxicated. The overall effects of legalizing marijuana have been resoundingly positive. Your stance flies in the face of reality. You can't, and shouldn't, force people to do things they don't want to.

I've stated my opinion on alcohol and being rid of it.

Drugs like marijuana still pose the risk of dependency and addiction. Illicit drugs like that also make it easy to overdose and, again, pose the risk of wasting hospital space due to such things

 

[webkilla]

Nah. I don't feel like telling you anything about me. Your unwillingness to respond is telling, though.

My "communism doesn't kill" comment was a jab at the pro gun crowd. I'm sorry your sense of humor is damaged. You know what they say about people who don't get the joke soon enough, right?

And yeah. Your willingness to throw entire types of degrees out the window they they "indoctrinate" people is called cherry picking. I bet you've never set foot in a college class.

Well in that case you just lost that bet bucko, lost it hard. In a month or so I'll be getting my third degree - an engineering degree in mechanical engineering. Prior to that I got a bachelor and masters degree in UX engineering. You need user interface design or structural stress simulations done? Fluid flow simulations? Calculate specs on some heat exchangers or cooling units? I'm your guy.

But again - your scorn is quite telling: You seem to assume that anyone who disagrees with you, is automatically stupid. That's not very smart. You should respect your oponent in a political debate - they might know something you don't.

Let me guess: You're in college, working on your first (and what will likely be your only) degree? Cute.


Also nice backpedal on your communism "jab" - why not just admit that you were wrong? Because there's nothing wrong with my sense of humor - I think you're hilarious AND pathetic

Finally, me throwing an entire type of degrees out the window is based on a reasonably credible source, namely one Jordan B Peterson - who has pointed out how the US college humanities have been effectively taken over by post modernist marxists. I can't wait for you to tell me that he's some kind of alt right bad guy too.

 

[BahgDaddy]

I've stated my opinion on alcohol and being rid of it.

Drugs like marijuana still pose the risk of dependency and addiction. Illicit drugs like that also make it easy to overdose and, again, pose the risk of wasting hospital space due to such things

No, sorry, the facts don't support that, in areas where it's been legalized. A very small amount of people who'll become addicted. Rehabilitation isn't usually necceary, it's similar in addictuve quality to tobacco. There's also no real way to overdose on pot unless you are doing something unusually stupid with it that I'm not aware of.

And. Wasted hospital space? What do you mean by this?

 

[Reshizard]

@Oblique Lynx

You want to make all drugs including tobacco and alcohol illegal correct? You know how bad that would be for the economy and how many conservatives would turn on you?

 

[Cawdabra]

Off-topic but, my counter argument for being tougher on crime and the justice system in general: Look at the recidivism rates in the US

 

[AppleButt]

Usually I am expecting that the less educated someone is, and the less ability they have to be critical thinkers, the more likely they are to lean right.

Come on, man. Don’t be that guy that thinks most people who lean right are unintelligent.

I don’t know if you’re trying to say going to college automatically makes you smarter or what.

I’m a liberal. I didn’t go to college (well I did for a semester). Admittingly college came harder to me than most people, and I dropped out. I am not dumber because of it.