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I have to get something off my chest concerning Pokemon sword and shield

BennyJackdaw

Don't worry, I'm a friendly rat.
at this at this point, I feel like this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but... I think the games are overhated.

I am I am in no way defending the laziness or the lack of content or anything, but I am seen a lot of people dictating the opinion of this game, treating it as a factual piece of garbage and treating anyone who likes the game as a piece of garbage. I get it. People don't want the company to half-ass Pokemon, but the way people are going about it honestly makes me want to defend the game. That might even be one of the reasons people to defend Pokemon sword and shield. Half because they stole like the game in spite of its problems, and half because the haters tend to be opinionated assholes.
 

MainHammond

Former Big Toasty Cinnamon Bun
I don't think the game is overhated, it's not like haters sent death threads to its director and voice actors like with The Last of Us Part 2.

I'm my opinion, it's a bland game. The story is undercooked, some characters are great, like Marnie and her brother, but I will not remember team yell after the next game gets released.

And there's one thing I think the game did terribly, the online. The Y-Com sucks.

But I still liked it more that Ultra Sun and Moon
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I understand the hatred for it since pokemon games have definitely taken a different direction, but when played by itself it's "okay".

Okay, for a pokemon game, will get hate though. A lot of it. Since it's a game series that has followed over two decades of people.

That's a lot of childhoods touched by by the series, so to have the formula changed and - on top of that, - do so (imo) poorly.
Not terribly mind you, just poorly enough to be "okay" instead of "good" means a LOT when it's a game series as old as it is.
 
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TyraWadman

The Silent Observer
I haven't played it, but I stopped caring for the games since it's just the same thing over and over again. I gave the sapphire remake a chance and after getting a legendary in the first few minutes of the game, I just saved the game and turned it off.

Having one or two new features like interacting with pokemon and feeding them pokepuffs is cute, but it's not justifying the $60-80+ of buying a new game (for me in Canada). It also sucks that when people introduce these new features- and then just toss it in the trash for their next game.
 

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
I have a Mienshao now. I'm happy <3
 

BennyJackdaw

Don't worry, I'm a friendly rat.
I don't think the game is overhated, it's not like haters sent death threads to its director and voice actors like with The Last of Us Part 2.

I'm my opinion, it's a bland game. The story is undercooked, some characters are great, like Marnie and her brother, but I will not remember team yell after the next game gets released.

And there's one thing I think the game did terribly, the online. The Y-Com sucks.

But I still liked it more that Ultra Sun and Moon

no, but they still harass people for liking the game. No, but they still harass people for liking the game. In all honesty, I don't disagree with a lot of the negative criticism the games are getting, I just disagree with how people are taking it.
 

MainHammond

Former Big Toasty Cinnamon Bun
I can't tell cause haven't seen cases of harassment on social media, just the typical dislikes on youtube, maybe some angry comments, but that's it.

Now something good I can say about pokemon is that the Mystery Dungeon series is still pretty good.

I liked the remake, the new features not so much, but I can't wait to see the remake of Explorers of Sky
 

BennyJackdaw

Don't worry, I'm a friendly rat.
I can't tell cause haven't seen cases of harassment on social media, just the typical dislikes on youtube, maybe some angry comments, but that's it.

Now something good I can say about pokemon is that the Mystery Dungeon series is still pretty good.

I liked the remake, the new features not so much, but I can't wait to see the remake of Explorers of Sky

There are some comments in this video that are just ravenous. Not the video itself, the comment section. Anyone who praises the game is treated as if they are ruining the game, and they are not allowed to say nice things because that is bad and supposedly support bad business practices. The opinion that this game is awful is seen as absolute fact, and that is what I mean by the game being overhated. It deserves the backlash, but not to the point dictating other people's opinion.

to tell to tell you the truth, as little interest as I have in Pokemon sword and shield oh, I have more interested in that than most games. I really wish games had more non-human protagonist. Also, shout out to the makers of blood-stained for listening to my plee. :p
 

BennyJackdaw

Don't worry, I'm a friendly rat.
Well, the video is called "the Downfall Of Mainline Pokémon Games".

The author pretty much tried to gather all the haters to tell them "I'm with you, so click my video"

It's like this one

I can tell without clicking it that all the comments are people talking trash about the game.

it's just that there is no respect among those people. It's pretty much a my way or the highway type mindset. The Defenders aren't much better, but still.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
it's just that there is no respect among those people. It's pretty much a my way or the highway type mindset. The Defenders aren't much better, but still.

When you pick a video focused on pointing out the bad in something, you're gonna get people focused on that as well. The internet has always been a passionate and anonymous place and because of that, people are much more likely to say the most vile things without care. That's just how it is. Nothing new is really happening here.
 

MainHammond

Former Big Toasty Cinnamon Bun
That is a bizarre and poor equivalent to the Pokemon series. (A lot of people hate the plot line for The Last Of Us Part 2 due to unfortunate LGBTQIA+ themes portrayed in the game. I cannot get into detail due to spoilers involved.)

Not my point.
If you wanna play a game and hate for whatever reason, that's fine.

But a hate video is made for the sole purpose of getting views of people who also wants to hate the game. Even if 90% of that people didn't even play the game.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
A lot of people hate the plot line for The Last Of Us Part 2 due to unfortunate LGBTQIA+ themes portrayed in the game.

Actually those themes have nothing to do with the hate. It's how poorly almost everything is executed and how stupidly Characters are portrayed (survival wise) in comparison to the first game. Gonna avoid further info due to spoilers but...honestly, saying anyone hates that game just because LGBTQ(+) is involved in it hasn't bothered to actually look into the legitimate reasons of why it's a bad sequel. But I digress.

The same snap judgements are made about pokemon s&s. For example, "Dynamaxing is dumb!" or "They only included some pokemon and not all!" Etc.

Yes, dynamaxing is dumb. However I'm sure a lot of gen 1'ers thought contests were dumb when they came out. Every generation has their gimmick and Nintendo is always going to experiment in attempts to keep things fresh. For better or for worse, that's always been apart of Pokémon's history. Just look at all its spin-off games (old and new alike). When you actually play the game, it's actually a fun experience (or at the very least, better than them stealing mega evolution from Digimon...).

As for them only including some pokemon instead of a majority...that really isn't new either. They've always had to pick and choose, they just did a lot more of that due to the Switch being a new system. I'm sure next game will have a larger roster. If it doesn't, maybe then the anger is more deserved. They're clearly experimental right now though and that should be more understandable (imo).

If there is one thing I'm mad at, it's paid DLC, but that's just because I'm biased and don't think Pokémon should ever have paid DLC...but that's just me.
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Now on the Switch they cost more, have less content, have paid online suscription, and they expect us to pay even more for DLC
I gotta call you to back up the "less content" claim. What's the standard you're measuring it by?

As for me? My overall opinion is that Game Freak needs help in developing each new generation of the franchise. Like it or not, they are the ones creating the canon that the franchise's other forms of media rely on, but by now the job (especially the expectations) is simply too large for what their team size and development schedule are capable of doing.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I gotta call you to back up the "less content" claim. What's the standard you're measuring it by?

Less content is likely a reference to "less pokemon" to catch compared to other games (aka the main point of a pokemon game). It might also be a reference to how easy it is to train pokemon now, taking out the grind, but that can be split 50/50 for whether people like or dislike that new system.
 

Rayd

bullshit detective
im pretty sure the only places the games got hated on was neckbeard twitter and maybe some of youtube, and it was for (mostly) pretty stupid unreasonable reasons. i still think it's probably on the lower end of my tier list for mainline games, though. still, i don't think sword and shield deserved the hate it got for attempting to be a little more ambitious, especially since one of the number 1 complaints pokemon fans have is the series being stale.

if anything, i wish they were more ambitious with their games. give me a pokemon mmorpg please.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
im pretty sure the only places the games got hated on was neckbeard twitter and maybe some of youtube, and it was for (mostly) pretty stupid unreasonable reasons. i still think it's probably on the lower end of my tier list for mainline games, though. still, i don't think sword and shield deserved the hate it got for attempting to be a little more ambitious, especially since one of the number 1 complaints pokemon fans have is the series being stale.

if anything, i wish they were more ambitious with their games. give me a pokemon mmorpg please.

I really liked the fact that HM Slaves are no longer a thing.
Thought the Wild Area was absolutely genius.

My two biggest issues were that they re-used assets, and it showed big time (in a bad way) when you played the game for more than a few hours (ex. all tree's are the same, the road textures hurt my eyes, etc.) and that they absolutely could have added more pokemon...but if that's the only complaints I have (as a pokemon fan since the release of older classics like Pokemon Emerald) I'm pretty okay with it existing. Is it the best pokemon game out there? Not by a long shot. However, what it did try to provide, it provided really well. It's a newer game for a newer console and there's bound to be some issues (and laziness) involved in the initial release. I think they could have tried harder personally, but it didn't outright fail at what it aimed to provide and that is a successful game (imo).
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Less content is likely a reference to "less pokemon" to catch compared to other games
That's still quite ambiguous. By raw numbers, Generation 6 onwards has featured approximately 400 species in every regional Pokedex, despite only 25% of said Pokedex (about 100 species) being completely new to the generation.
 

Gemi42

Trash Connoisseur
I agree with your point when it comes down to some people being rather opinionated about the newest pokemon games.
Game Dev is a rather difficult thing and with the Pokemon team you can seem they trying to act on the advice and criticism that people are offering,
however I do think that some critique is a bit too harsh.

The one thing that does kinda bother me, is that the animations on alot of the pokemon could have been redone! Alot of them have little-to-no personality in them,
leaving the pokemon feel kinda stale when outside of the Camp Function. Like, their battle animations are kinda bland.

But anyway, yeah!
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
The one thing that does kinda bother me, is that the animations on alot of the pokemon could have been redone! Alot of them have little-to-no personality in them,
leaving the pokemon feel kinda stale when outside of the Camp Function. Like, their battle animations are kinda bland.
This is an area where Game Freak DEFINITELY needs help because as it stands they are just incapable of meeting expectations.

A Pokemon's various combat gestures actually do look nice -- in a vacuum. (Remember on the 3DS you can tap the Pokemon on its status screen to see the gestures) The problem is that there just aren't enough of these gestures for each species for their attack scripts to take advantage of. Remember the animation work done in Stadium, Colosseum, and XD? You could easily count 3 or 4 different gestures depending on which move the Pokemon was doing then, but for Game Freak Pokemon, there are just two.

TWO. One gesture for physical attacks, one for special/status attacks. (Some Pokemon also have unique animations/gestures for signature moves, but on the Regional Pokedex scale these are few and far between.) And while some moves actually pair up very well with certain gestures (Braixen using Ember is a standout here), on average, the end result is just ... lacking.

We're not asking for Smash Bros. or Pokken -quality attack animations, but we have Pokemon punching with their feet, kicking with their tails, and a whole lot of individual Pokemon+Move combinations (to say nothing of any Pokemon with Copycat or Metronome!) where the Pokemon's gesture just DOES NOT sync up with the rest of the attack.
 

LuxerHusku

The Unlucky Husky
Bringing back this topic.

I love Sword & Shield. The hate for it had been very unfair. The game have it’s flaws but so does every other games before it. Remember when Black & White was hated by the community? Now, it’s considered the best Pokémon game or the peak in the franchise. I do believe the same will happen to Sword & Shield, cause now, I had been seeing a couple of posts saying that X & Y we’re really as bad as they thought.

It’s the Pokémon cycle. Hate new games, but go back to them and suddenly change your mind when they’re a couple of years old. I left the fandom because instead of giving actual criticism, they make a huge deal of nitpicks and even go as far as accusing Masuda as a pedophile. Like, what the fuck, dude?
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
The hate for it had been very unfair. The game have it’s flaws but so does every other games before it.
My thoughts: Yes, some of the hate for it is absolutely unfair but some criticism of it is well-deserved. And you can't compare Sword & Shield only to previous Pokemon games, you also have to compare it to non-Pokemon contemporaries on the market too.

One of the big criticisms is the limited battle animations -- and let's be blunt: the individual Pokemon basically just perform "spellcasting" gestures while the rest of the attack plays out as independent particle effects. This isn't a bad system (nearly every RPG ever has done it to some extent!), but Pokemon moves are more than just "spells" and the repertoire of gestures each creature has access to is extremely limited compared to the array of attacks it can legally perform (especially with Copycat/Mirror Move users). Some Pokemon have signature moves with entirely custom animations (which look amazing) but this can only be feasibly animated per individual matchup of specific Pokemon and specific move (which theoretically has not just thousands of permutations, but tens of thousands).

Another large criticism is the overall level of difficulty -- and again, let's be blunt: to a seasoned Pokemon fan, Sword and Shield are easy. The average Pokemon battle is won even before it begins, just based on Pokemon matchup, moveset and individual stats. Per-turn tactics are almost moot. And with EXP always being shared across the entire team, it's extremely easy to over-level your team. If you put in the work to keep your team relatively level-matched with the next Trainer battle then the difficult curve is actually fine, but again, most battles can be won with relatively little thought beyond which Pokemon you bring in and what their default movesets are.

Speaking of movesets, that's another big criticism: 90% of Trainer battles use only Pokemon with default level-up movesets and a simplistic default AI that knows basically nothing beyond elemental type matchups. Certain movesets do lend themselves well to this default AI but high-level strategies require actual scripting, which just isn't feasible on a large scale.

I could go on (and for a long time), but the bottom line is that Game Freak's relatively small team size just isn't able to keep up with its contemporaries on an HD-tier console platform -- they have the financial backing of a AAA developer but just isn't making full use of it -- and THAT's a criticism well earned.
 
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