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I tried something different

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
You may want to start with books on anatomy for a start. That and books like the keys to drawing or drawing from the left side of the brain. You need more foundational drawing.
 

Fay V

Lost to this world
It looks like you want to put in a lot of lines that don't really need to be there, especially with the nose. It just makes it look awkward. But yeah, a little better, they look less starving to death. Follow the advice others gave and focus more on foundations.
 

Taralack

Hit 'em right between the eyes
His head shape looks all wrong, and it looks like you're putting too many lines where they're not needed. Do you do a skeleton undersketch before you start drawing? Because it doesn't really look like you do. A rough undersketch can go a long way to help with getting proportions right.

ETA: The Loomis book on drawing heads may be helpful to you. http://www.scribd.com/doc/15354718/Figure-Drawing-Head-and-Hands-by-Andrew-Loomis
 
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Fay V

Lost to this world
Speaking of which. Mapdark, would you mind posting one of your underwires (or whatever you call the bloby undersketch) I am curious about that little ball around the navel area.
 

Namba

Well-Known Member

Heimdal

has a sexy learning disability
You're not drawing what you see, you're drawing what you think you see. That's the problem here. Stop drawing the person in that picture, start drawing the image itself. This is something all artists have to beat into their head.

Abandon the thick intentional lines, and allow yourself sketchy, inaccurate lines. You're doing contour drawings and pretending that's all sketching is, but you shouldn't just do that at this point. The thicker lines you use, the more intentional they are, and if they are wrong, they are very wrong. If you want to improve, you have to not be afraid of making mistakes. For example, if you go over the cheekbone a dozen times, you will have many light inaccurate lines, but you will also be able to see which of those lines is the one that works. This is a good and common strategy.
 

Namba

Well-Known Member
I've read that the left part of the brain has symbols already preset for you so as to get in the way of your ability to "see." it likes to ignore what's "extraneous" and, for example, identify itself as a chair and leave it at that. Everyone can draw; it's seeing that's the problem (as was brilliantly said by Betty Edwards in her "drawing on the right side of the brain" book)
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Whoah, I like what I see here.

If you like Loomis books, they're being reprinted in high quality.

http://amzn.com/0857680986

http://amzn.com/0857680978

I've seen photos of the reprints, and they don't have that dirty handwriting (on the scanned copies floating on the web) and they're high quality. Painters like Alex Ross praises him.

Considering they were one of the books I found back in high school in a library they're highly worth the purchase.

Also on a different note Gottfried Bammes will be out for print too http://amzn.com/1844486907 312 pages
 

JMAA

Banned
Banned
Toraneko said:
His head shape looks all wrong, and it looks like you're putting too many lines where they're not needed. Do you do a skeleton undersketch before you start drawing? Because it doesn't really look like you do. A rough undersketch can go a long way to help with getting proportions right.

ETA: The Loomis book on drawing heads may be helpful to you.
Much appreciated, I was even trying to recopilate several anatomy references.
Also, I do a skeleton, I even tried with the eye sizes, putting squares in the right place on the sides of the nose. But dunno, it's still too easened.

EDIT: BTW the link doesn't work for me, it takes forever to load.

Heimdal said:
You're not drawing what you see, you're drawing what you think you see. That's the problem here. Stop drawing the person in that picture, start drawing the image itself. This is something all artists have to beat into their head.

Abandon the thick intentional lines, and allow yourself sketchy, inaccurate lines. You're doing contour drawings and pretending that's all sketching is, but you shouldn't just do that at this point. The thicker lines you use, the more intentional they are, and if they are wrong, they are very wrong. If you want to improve, you have to not be afraid of making mistakes. For example, if you go over the cheekbone a dozen times, you will have many light inaccurate lines, but you will also be able to see which of those lines is the one that works. This is a good and common strategy
Well, there was a problem with the original image: it was too small. I tried to replicate the entire suit, but the image was to blurry to be able to replicate it.
Otherwise, nice advice.

Also, if you want to guess what I was doing while waiting for replies, I was even practising with my face and Baphomet (one of... uh... my plan-games characters).





 
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Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public

Fay V

Lost to this world
What art program do you use? It doesn't look like it is allowing you to properly sketch things, which is bad.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
What art program do you use? It doesn't look like it is allowing you to properly sketch things, which is bad.

I think you're blaming a symptom for a cause.

The symptom of sketches looking bad due to program is more to do with -The Cause: the person needs to learn how to sketch more in general. Does it matter if it was done in MS Paint? Or does it matter that the person needs to learn how to draw more in general?

Why do you think traditional artists seem to grasp digital better than the other way around?
 

mapdark

Fluffy as a shaggy carpet
I think you're blaming a symptom for a cause.

The symptom of sketches looking bad due to program is more to do with -The Cause: the person needs to learn how to sketch more in general. Does it matter if it was done in MS Paint? Or does it matter that the person needs to learn how to draw more in general?

Why do you think traditional artists seem to grasp digital better than the other way around?


You're right of course, but some programs DO make it almost impossible to produce nice looking lineart XD

The default brushes are often just not fitted for drawing.

But yeah , if a person cannot line properly in the first place , the program has very little to do with it.
 

Fay V

Lost to this world
I think you're blaming a symptom for a cause.

The symptom of sketches looking bad due to program is more to do with -The Cause: the person needs to learn how to sketch more in general. Does it matter if it was done in MS Paint? Or does it matter that the person needs to learn how to draw more in general?

Why do you think traditional artists seem to grasp digital better than the other way around?

I don't think it's a cause. Everything else still stands and I agree that he needs to work on his foundations, I just think that if he is using a tablet, might as well make sure he can use a decent program and fix that symptom. I am 90% certain he is using something that doesn't have pressure sensitivity. In that case I think it might be better to point out a good program now, rather than have him struggle with MS paint for a while before finding the better program, especially when that lack of sensitivity makes a world of difference.

It might not be the cause of his illness, but why not stop a headache if we can.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
You guys remember oekaki right? It's like a whiteboard and depending on version not necessarily pressure sensitive

I used to draw with a mouse with my opposite hand.

While it's not great, and I certainly am not great, I doodled on them with the mouse.





I'm not discounting that a program can give better results, but this person really and severely lacks foundations. I highly discourage any "hope" in the sense that the problem lies in the program. The OP needs to practice more. To be more honest, needs to practice more traditionally. Learning on a tablet is like learning a new medium, in addition to the headache of learning foundations.

Learn those foundations traditionally first.
 

Kaluna

*squeak squeak squeak*
I really really think that OP needs to just stop drawing the SAME character. Put the comic on hold for now. Put the tablet away (safe from dust) and get out some cheap ass computer paper and just start drawing either human faces or animal faces. OVER AND OVER.
Practice is almost the only way to improve. Pick a topic for the day and study it.
Draw and draw and draw. Stop drawing the same things.

I feel like I need to copy and paste the above ten times for you to get it, but I'm not going to do that, so just read it ten times.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Well he can draw his comic, because at least the only way to do comics is learn to do them. Holding off till you're good enough, what's the point? Sure it will be terrible because he's just learning, but at least by doing it and failing he's got the practice of even trying under his belt.

Then at least when he goes back and looks at his comic years down the road he can compare what he's doing now to back then.

I'm just saying right now traditionally is the way to go, because he's not even showing foundational practice. He picked up a random painting and tried to quickly copy it.

This stuff takes time man, slow the hell down.
 

Kaluna

*squeak squeak squeak*
I still think the comic should go on hold at least for a little while. It has nothing to do with "being good enough", and I never meant to imply that. What I am trying to get at is that it seems he's in a box. He's trying to draw something he has in his head, and it seems to be holding him back. Just let the ideas rest for a minute, there's always time to create characters and a story, but sometimes you need to let go, step out of your comfort zone, and just DRAW ANYTHING. Drawing the same things over and over can be discouraging too, and it's always fun to reach out to another subject area and see what you can do. He needs to expand and practice, that's about it really IMO.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Disagree.
It's inspiring him to draw now.
Never discourage that, ever.

That doesn't mean abandoning studies, because to get better you need to do 50/50 (half observational/life and half imaginative) anyways.

Why tell this person to fill up with boring studies and NOT have time to draw what got them to draw in the first place.

Inspiration can be a fleeting thing to a beginner. It's not like he can't come back and rework the comic. He just has to know it's not going to come out good but later on if the idea was solid enough he can rework it to be better.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
I've read that the left part of the brain has symbols already preset for you so as to get in the way of your ability to "see." it likes to ignore what's "extraneous" and, for example, identify itself as a chair and leave it at that. Everyone can draw; it's seeing that's the problem (as was brilliantly said by Betty Edwards in her "drawing on the right side of the brain" book)

Just do the exercises and ignore her hyperbole to be honest ;) A lot of it is psychobabble, but her instructions on getting people to draw are really good for beginners. It's a good start, and move on to other things.
 

JMAA

Banned
Banned
What art program do you use? It doesn't look like it is allowing you to properly sketch things, which is bad.

I'm using Photoshop for this. My doubt is getting sketch brushes for it or something else that is better.
I normally sketch in red and cyan first and outline then in black.
But before I had the tablet I used to do it in paper.
 
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I'm using Photoshop for this. My doubt is getting sketch brushes for it or something else that is better.
I normally sketch in red and cyan first and outline then in black.

What?


WHAT?



WHAT!?



You have GOT to be trolling. Seriously. You can't work out how to do a sketch layer in Photoshop? Sketch brushes?


As long as you use a different layer to ink, you can use whatever tool and colour you want to sketch.
 

Fay V

Lost to this world
I'm using Photoshop for this. My doubt is getting sketch brushes for it or something else that is better.
I normally sketch in red and cyan first and outline then in black.
But before I had the tablet I used to do it in paper.
I'd stick to pencil sketches for a bit til you get better and knowing what lines you do and don't need.
 

Kaluna

*squeak squeak squeak*
I'll just leave this here again...

picture

If you've installed the Wacom drivers for your tablet, you should have pressure sensitivity in any program. http://www.wacom-asia.com/download/download_index.html

That's not true. The program has to have a pressure sensitivity feature built in. GIMP is free and offers this feature, however MS Paint does not.
Do you have a tablet? Try to make some strokes in paint, they will always be the same weight, regardless of pressure.
 
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