Invasive species

[Ravofox]

I was wondering. What do all you guys think about invasive species?

Most of you would probably know about the damage a lot of non-native species have caused when they've been introduced into a new environment. Native ecosystems become degraded, species become extinct.

But, whose fault is this? It's our species', not theirs. I don't hate those who did it, but it was incredibly stupid and often for cruel reasons, such as for hunting, and only ended in tears for native animals, humans and the invader (or kidnapped more like) themselves. I get pretty upset when people talk about these species in a vitriolic way, like 'they're disgusting animals' or 'it deserves to die', as if they deliberately intended to come over and ruin environments. And to say that they have no right to live simply due to circumstances that were beyond their control is a pretty nasty sentiment in my opinion, and I feel the same way whether it's a Cane Toad, horse, fox (yes, I'm a bit biased) or whatever.

Now, I completely understand why people have this attitude, and don't get me wrong, I know full well the damage invasive species cause and that culling is something which unfortunately must be used to help deal with the issue. But, I think it needs to be recognised that it's not their fault, and that they should be respected as living things which just try to make do as much as any native species. I also know that while culling is necessary, there are other methods such as deterrence and enclosure which have been shown to have some impact in protecting wildlife.

Well, that's my take on it. What do y'all think?

 

[DimskyTheOwl]

I've never understood having some really personal hatred for a specific animal and wishing them all some tortourous death, unless maybe it traumatized you...?
Like I've seen vids of farmers shooting coyotes/ wolves, but the comments were horrific.

I do agree with you though.

 

[Ravofox]

I've never understood having some really personal hatred for a specific animal and wishing them all some tortourous death, unless maybe it traumatized you...?
Like I've seen vids of farmers shooting coyotes/ wolves, but the comments were horrific.

I do agree with you though.

Yeah. Although coyotes and wolves aren't technically insaisive, very similar sentiment is levelled at animals considered pests, as there are similar issues. People seem to think that animals should somehow be aware of the human imposed order or that they 'don't belong there'. And yeah comments about these things are frequently insensitive and brutal.

 

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

Most often than not, these species became invasive due to human intervension.

An example is when Thomas Austin released 24 wild rabbits in Australia for hunting purposes in October 1859,
The population of the rabbits grew too big that Australian government have to erect fences that span a 1/4 of the continent.

if we exterminate all these bunnies, we're actually fixing our own shit

 

[Picklepaige]

It's not the animals' fault, but I will always prioritize native species over invasive. Fox and feral cat extermination in Australia is sad, but they completely DECIMATE endangered native marsupials, and I am not okay with a species going extinct because of human stupidity. The same with the Brown Tree Snake destroying Hawaii's native bird population.

I love all animals and any death makes me sad, I don't celebrate it, but if it's between a native species dying and an invasive species dying (especially when it has a very healthy population in its native range), I will choose the native every time.

 

[Ravofox]

Most often than not, these species became invasive due to human intervension.

An example is when Thomas Austin released 24 wild rabbits in Australia for hunting purposes in October 1859,
The population of the rabbits grew too big that Australian government have to erect fences that span a 1/4 of the continent.

if we exterminate all these bunnies, we're actually fixing our own shit

I agree that it would be fixing the problem if a total cull was made, but it is both virtually imposible and in my opinion unethical. They're living things. I'm totally fine with culling and making practical use of the carcas in some way, but I don't agree with complete extermination in the new country.
And an issue i have is that a lot of people (understandably but misguiededly imo) direct their anger at the animal rather than those who actually sent them there. The fact that they were brought there to be killed is even more damning.

It's not the animals' fault, but I will always prioritize native species over invasive. Fox and feral cat extermination in Australia is sad, but they completely DECIMATE endangered native marsupials, and I am not okay with a species going extinct because of human stupidity. The same with the Brown Tree Snake destroying Hawaii's native bird population.

I love all animals and any death makes me sad, I don't celebrate it, but if it's between a native species dying and an invasive species dying (especially when it has a very healthy population in its native range), I will choose the native every time.

I agree completely. It's very very sad what has happened to so so many wonderful animals. I'm Australian myself and I love possums and our native birds and unique reptiles. It's cold hard logic that culling must occur. But, I also think there is a duty, so to speek, to respect the animals that we placed here. We were responsible for planting them. Like a tree they must be pruned, but completely destroying the thing you planted just seems wrong to me.

 

[CertifiedCervine]

But what about invasive plants???
I don’t mind them, they are good food -3-

 

[Ramjet]

Good point, it's always us that do it...

Another great example is the European Starling...
They were brought over by the Acclimatization Society back in the 1800's...They wanted to bring in all the birds mentioned in Shakespeare's poem and release them in New York Central Park, the thought was they would stay localized....

They now cause billions of dollars of agricultural damage across North America a year...

 

[Casey Fluffbat]

The sentiments you speak of are most likely from people that deal with first-hand. Sure, it's unnecessary and paints the wrong picture, but are rightfully more concerned with their livelihood. The things we should be focusing on are, like you mentioned, the people tasked with dealing with invasive species and their methods. Among those methods, deterrence is one that doesn't solve the issue. One particular invasive species that's present all over the southern U.S. are wild hogs, and they cause billions in damages each year to agricultural communities alone. These animals are also known for disrupting native fauna and destroying native flora. These are not animals that can be effectively relocated or kept out in an affordable manner; they weigh hundreds of pounds and can be especially aggressive. With millions of these hogs reproducing at alarming rates, they're often left with little protection in regards to hunting laws, and rightfully so.

While we can cite human activity for what transpires bringing animals to different parts of the world, I believe it's our responsibility to protect and preserve the environment, even if it means hunting them to prevent damage to the local ecosystems. History has often favored the greedy, destructive image of hunting, but has major conservationist utility dating back to the 19th century that is still relevant today. I suppose a tall argument against this would be ethical in nature, but there are already laws regarding what animal and how it is killed that could be met with revisions if needed, and the already common thing to do is apply a high-powered rifle shot to the head. Right now, I don't see much a safer, faster, ethical, and cost effective way of solving it than allowing the willing and licensed citizens and their hunting firearms to do the work (and it's good eatin').

 

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

I agree that it would be fixing the problem if a total cull was made, but it is both virtually impossible and in my opinion unethical. They're living things. I'm totally fine with culling and making practical use of the carcass in some way, but I don't agree with complete extermination in the new country.
And an issue i have is that a lot of people (understandably but misguidedly imo) direct their anger at the animal rather than those who actually sent them there. The fact that they were brought there to be killed is even more damning.

-People today have learned from the countless case studies of introducting species to places where they don't belong, things like these are often done by the people in the past who doesn't know any better. There is really no point at being angry at people who are already 6 feet under.
-Well humans are humans, if invasive species are destroying livestock and local fauna, I think them being angry is just natural.
-I agree that it would be better to use the carcass than to just let it rot under the sun, I'm sure many people would like to capitalize on a increasing number of bunny meat/fur, the problem is people like you. Too soft hearted to let this happen, putting your feelings first before logic.

 

[Ravofox]

-People today have learned from the countless case studies of introducting species to places where they don't belong, things like these are often done by the people in the past who doesn't know any better. There is really no point at being angry at people who are already 6 feet under.
-Well humans are humans, if invasive species are destroying livestock and local fauna, I think them being angry is just natural.
-I agree that it would be better to use the carcass than to just let it rot under the sun, I'm sure many people would like to capitalize on a increasing number of bunny meat/fur, the problem is people like you. Too soft hearted to let this happen, putting your feelings first before logic.

I said I don't blame those responsible for the introduction or those who react angrily to these animals. I'm genuinely sorry if I didn't make this clear. I understand the homesick factor, the economic considerations and the desire to control other invasive species as the motives for their original introduction, and that there was no intention to damage the environment. Sorry if I came across as a bit hostile. People have a right to be mad at an animal destroying the environment and/or livestock, who am I to judge? And if it helps motivate conservation and agricultural protection, that's just as well, as long as it doesn't find an outlet in unnecessary cruelty.

 

[quoting_mungo]

This is my favorite approach to invasive species www.miyassushi.com: Welcome to Miya's

 

[Deleted member 82554]

When I think of invasive species common household pests are the first that come to mind.

 

[Misha Bordiga Zahradník]

Invasive species are generally brought in by humans, and lack their normal detracting factors in the current ecosystem. The result is mass destruction and death on a widespread scale if the issue isn't handled; and unfortunately that means culling the invasive species. It is preferable to encourage that such death not go to waste, but that isn't always practical, and it's better left unenforced to encourage deliberate over-hunting of the invasive species. Allowing in that one case such crass carelessness itself saves the suffering of other animals and peoples for generations to come.

Humans are the ultimate invasive species, but we have a higher consciousness, and an ability to mitigate the harm we cause to our environment through our choices. Sadly, our societies do not encourage us to be the best we can.

 

[TabbyTomCat]

...
Humans are the ultimate invasive species, but we have a higher consciousness, and an ability to mitigate the harm we cause to our environment through our choices. Sadly, our societies do not encourage us to be the best we can.

Hell not.
Descendants of bald African ape not just overpopulated earth far beyond sustainable count (grow from 1 billion to almost 8 billions in just hundred years), but our way of life and excessive production causes global harm at fast pace.
No matter how high science and technology we developed, we still got involved in wars for delusional religious reasons and dumb political games.
We all are well aware that we are killing our planet, yet we go on with that willingly. We measure happiness in average national products consumption, our only viable economy&society model is based on infinite steady production grow and we can't find feasible way to change it that would not cause social collapse.
Even if we could ever find way to reduce production and find way to persuade all humankind to take part in that, we have no human acceptable solution for overpopulation.

We are advanced above other animals only by our logic and communication capabilities, not by mentality. That's not that much as most of us thinks.

 

[Misha Bordiga Zahradník]

Ever the rhetoric that humanity is doomed and self destructive, but never the answer whom among us, and why. Humanity is not monolithic, and our military conflicts are not unique to our species in nature and deed, but are built upon technology and society like no other. These conflicts serve valid purposes, but again ask for whom and for what each battle and war is fought.

As for what makes us unique, it isn't kust logic. It is awareness of self, as an established identity that is able to percieve it's own thought process, combine with higher thinking and logic skills. This is far and above most all animals on the planet, with no close second to match. Our closest seconds are in other apes, whom are leages behind us.

As to the apocalyptic statements about economic models, there is a lack of understanding of how Keynesian economics work, and ignorance of other alternatives.

Most of our problems are not engineered by the masses, but are the work of powerful people whom control from behind and in front of a screen, to advance their own personal agenda and profit at the expense of others. Most emissions come from private and public power generation, which are dictated by the whims of a mere cadre of wealthy shits, that will ride fossil fuels into the ground before shedding their skin for greener power, while trying to play it off as genuine environmental concern. These same people have dictated many recent conflicts to advance their personal business. Dictators and wannabes dance the masses to their propogandized tunes, as they carve up the world, and then hide behind the institutions we built on a promise of our protection.

None of our misteps and systems of power need be permanent, but so long as one intends to go with the carefully constructed flow, you'll find yourself doing the same dance for someone else, more or less shitty than before. Just be careful you don't find moral roads that have been less traveled for a reason....

 

[Skychickens]

Invasive plants and animals cause a lot of harm to their new environment due to being keystone species. Keystones will win out every time. Culling or keeping them contained is great unfortunately.

For example: in the Caymans they have a naitive blue iguana which is the most endangered iguana in the world. Due to the release of green iguanas and backyard chickens in such a small space, they are everywhere and utter menaces to peoples food supply and the blue iguana population is rapidly declining. Culling is the only reasonable method at that point. They even encourage you to catch and eat wild chickens.

The release of pet oscars have destroyed local rivers and ponds in Florida, with an order to not release any of them back if caught. Apparently they taste like bass.

Up in Michigan they’ve been having problems with alligators being released and endangering themselves and people. They’re catching them and putting them into zoos because they are in fact endangered animals.

Lionfish are coral pickers and carnivorous. They’ll decimate a reef system if allowed to stay.

Down here in Georgia people love to release turtles that decimate local ponds and snakes to the point the state has some pretty serious laws about what’s allowed and what’s not.

Kudzu is well known for choking out plants and reducing entire forests to their bones in just a few years.

 

[Nihles]

I was wondering. What do all you guys think about invasive species?

Most of you would probably know about the damage a lot of non-native species have caused when they've been introduced into a new environment. Native ecosystems become degraded, species become extinct.

But, whose fault is this? It's our species', not theirs. I don't hate those who did it, but it was incredibly stupid and often for cruel reasons, such as for hunting, and only ended in tears for native animals, humans and the invader (or kidnapped more like) themselves. I get pretty upset when people talk about these species in a vitriolic way, like 'they're disgusting animals' or 'it deserves to die', as if they deliberately intended to come over and ruin environments. And to say that they have no right to live simply due to circumstances that were beyond their control is a pretty nasty sentiment in my opinion, and I feel the same way whether it's a Cane Toad, horse, fox (yes, I'm a bit biased) or whatever.

Now, I completely understand why people have this attitude, and don't get me wrong, I know full well the damage invasive species cause and that culling is something which unfortunately must be used to help deal with the issue. But, I think it needs to be recognised that it's not their fault, and that they should be respected as living things which just try to make do as much as any native species. I also know that while culling is necessary, there are other methods such as deterrence and enclosure which have been shown to have some impact in protecting wildlife.

Well, that's my take on it. What do y'all think?

You pretty much covered my thoughts on the topic. Hopefully we can learn from the past mistakes, and I'm hoping communities suffering with ecological disasters can manage them with compassion and not cruelty.

 

[Slytherin Umbreon]

Long live the Water Deer!

I'm not biased.

 

[pippi]

I think they need to be removed if they are causing harm to the native ecosystem, but I don't think they should be killed.

 

[Misha Bordiga Zahradník]

I think they need to be removed if they are causing harm to the native ecosystem, but I don't think they should be killed.

Mass removal of native species is not so reliable. It's a much slower process, and you are racing their own reproductive rate. Try mass capturing wild boar in the US.

 

[Kit H. Ruppell]

I've never understood having some really personal hatred for a specific animal and wishing them all some tortourous death, unless maybe it traumatized you...?
Like I've seen vids of farmers shooting coyotes/ wolves, but the comments were horrific.

I do agree with you though.

The hicks that post such videos do so for the sole purpose of initiating a circlejerk among others of their breed. Their comments say it all.

 

[Ravofox]

I think they need to be removed if they are causing harm to the native ecosystem, but I don't think they should be killed.

This would definitely be the best thing if it was possible, but unfortunately it isn't.

My position basically is that a large proportion, but not all, should be culled (a complete cull is virtually imposible anyway), along with the use of less lethal methods (this is pretty much the standard I think).

It's been interesting having this discussing, nice to see lots of opinions

 

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

Mass removal of native species is not so reliable. It's a much slower process, and you are racing their own reproductive rate. Try mass capturing wild boar in the US.

I wonder what boar meat taste like :V

 

[Alv]

Humans are often the cause of said invasive species. Sometimes seeds get moved from state to state, they spread and grow. Someone thought such and such plant was pretty and relocated it, whoosh. Someone took a bullfrog across state lines, now you can't get rid of them.

A tempting argument is to say, well, they're thriving in the thier new environment, so they deserve to be there. Unfortunately, these species are usually doing fine to begin with, and they take over sensitive areas and make things harder for existing species to keep thriving.

These problems can be solved by mitigation practices by govements, public education, and laws that penalize moving invasive species around intentionally, amongst other things.