• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

Is depression real?

Mandragoras

Inept Abecedarian
Valium is actually a really helpful drug, particularly for anxiety disorders and severe insomnia. My few personal experiences with it, as a treatment for panic attacks (an infrequent bane on my existence), were quite positive.

At the end of the day, though, nobody's body chemistry is quite identical, and different people will respond in wildly different fashions to different medications and treatments. The only surefire thing to help is to have a good support network and understanding people to talk to when you need it who can help you work out distorted thought patterns and foster good habits—which seems orthogonal to the physical stuff, but hey, it's the brain we're talking about.
 

Tsuko-chi

Tsuko speaking.
Depression isn't a fancy word for sadness. It's a mental illness. A drop in serotonin in our neurotransmitters. Depression can also be a side effect a different illness as well. Like if some one had bpd they probably experience depression as well. It's a confusing topic for neurotypicals they might says it a perspective or just in your head. it is in the head, the brain is a powerful influence to the point it manifest physically. With the lack of one chemical we lose more than emotions, but it takes away physical capabilities as well. I could go on forever but I will stop here.

I hope this leaves insight.
 

nerdbat

Green butt of reason
I was diagnosed with depression for several years, which is something I can actually prove with papers (althrough I'm obviously more than a bit hesitant to document personal information to strangers), and yeah, I call BS on this post. Depression is when "something's not right in your head". I'll simplify things a bit here for the sake of convenience, but basically, you have prolonged periods of feeling like shit despite not having actual reasons to feel like shit, and when actual reasons happen, you feel even more like shit - so, you can make yourself feel slightly less shitty by taking a proper care of yourself, and that's something I went through too (I broke my coffee addiction and burned a lot of fat during that time), but it'll not magically cure you or something. My head was thankfully fixed with a lot of pills and medical visits - if I've listened to OP of this thread, I would most likely kill myself sooner or later after hours of hopeless "I DO EVERYTHING RIGHT WHY AM I NOT HAPPY YET" thoughts, so I'll say while this way of thinking can be applied to some situations, in others it's downright damaging. Always check your local therapist first before making conclusions about reasons of your sadness - I'm still glad I did.
 
Last edited:

Aleksion

They killed me
Banned
I feel the thread name is not very suitable. I meant depression as a mental illness. When people say I have depression they are usually referring to an illness, not an emotion. Feeling depressed is real as much as feeling happy, but nobody says I have happiness and that's why I used this particular thread name.

So that being said, I still don't see it as an illness. You guys make it sound like it comes from nowhere, but how can it be? If you're truly enjoying the life, you just can't get chronically depressed. There has to be something wrong, even if you can't see it directly. Though I had this very interesting experience, where I started feeling anxious for seemingly no reason. Perhaps it was because of a traumatic event I had a half year ago? idk... It progressively got worse until I decided to undergo an exorcism and in a few minutes I was fixed. Strange. I guess I spend way too much time alone.

@quoting_mungo fair enough, you might be right. But my point was anyone can be completely irrational, genuinely believing this crazy mental state will last forever, despite being perfectly healthy. It's just what comes with being human.

@Simo , it's great you decided to stop taking antidepressant. Only a very small part of those neurotransmitters and located in a brain, most of it is in a body playing important roles. When antidepressants are taken they literally messes your body. What makes me furious is when they claim drugs are the answer, I know not all of you do, but I still see plenty believing this pseudoscience crap. Psychiatry isn't a legit science. They try to make it like it, but the fundamental theories are just impossible to confirm. Antidepressants are like shooting in the dark, first they make a mess out of your brain, secondly some people enjoy those effects, which vary from person to person, some don't, lastly we sprinkle some placebo on top and viola the magic pill was invented!
Valium as other benzos are an effective drug, because they work for pretty much everyone with very similar effects and instantly. I wish it was sold otc, many people could enjoy its relaxing properties, without getting intoxicated as they do with alcohol.

@nerdbat interestingly enough, antidepressants greatly increase the risk of committing suicide, it's actually so bad that the US government decided to put black box labels on antidepressants
 

WolfyJake

Professional Cuddlefluff
I have chronic depression. To most of us it feels like it comes out of nowhere. I'm not sure what started it for me. But some days I just feel like a total loser who will never amount to anything in life, and I cry for a few hours, then fall asleep. And sometimes I just feel so damn sad, for no reason at all. And I'm pretty sure depression can be a serious mental illness. There doesn't have to be something wrong for me to feel incredibly down. I'm not going to say much more on this.
 

nerdbat

Green butt of reason
@nerdbat interestingly enough, antidepressants greatly increase the risk of committing suicide, it's actually so bad that the US government decided to put black box labels on antidepressants
Unmedicated use of antidepressants, that is - there are a lot of them, each for every little thing and with various little results and side-effects. Even for professional psychiatrists, it may be hard to find the proper medication, and at least in my case, first couple of months they made different prescriptions to see what will work better - if you're just going to buy trendy thingies and pop them like candies, of course you're going to harm yourself, because, well, it's not how they work.

Either way, judging by all the text you've written above, I can only conclude that you're either joking/trolling, or being incredibly naive, considering your simple-minded approach to a rather complex problem, and severe lack of actual research to boot
 
Last edited:

Saiko

GTWT Survivor
So that being said, I still don't see it as an illness. You guys make it sound like it comes from nowhere, but how can it be? If you're truly enjoying the life, you just can't get chronically depressed. There has to be something wrong, even if you can't see it directly.

No, it doesn't come from nowhere, yes there is something wrong, and yes we can see it. The existence of depression as a neurochemically caused illness is well known and not a topic of debate. The problem is that we don't know precisely how it is caused or how to reliably cure it, and that is a matter of scientific research that you are not qualified to conduct or meaningfully speculate about.

IMG_0112.JPG
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
You guys make it sound like it comes from nowhere, but how can it be? If you're truly enjoying the life, you just can't get chronically depressed. There has to be something wrong, even if you can't see it directly.
Depression can come from virtually nowhere. It can also be triggered by e.g. a traumatic loss, or be caused by other conditions. In my case, the most likely cause of my depression is my anxiety disorder; going around with low-level ambient anxiety that peaked in specific situations for literally years just wore through all of my capability to grin and bear it. As a result, I don't have the stress tolerance I used to have, I don't experience enjoyment even doing things I know based on past experience I should enjoy, and I have trouble functioning at all without my SNRIs on board.

When antidepressants are taken they literally messes your body. What makes me furious is when they claim drugs are the answer, I know not all of you do, but I still see plenty believing this pseudoscience crap. Psychiatry isn't a legit science. They try to make it like it, but the fundamental theories are just impossible to confirm. Antidepressants are like shooting in the dark, first they make a mess out of your brain, secondly some people enjoy those effects, which vary from person to person, some don't, lastly we sprinkle some placebo on top and viola the magic pill was invented!
Different medications working differently for different people does not mean their effect is not legitimate. I can't take Ibuprofen because it gives me headaches. That doesn't mean it might not be the primary choice of painkiller for someone else. Pain management is just one of many areas of more physical medicine where one might have to do some trial and error to find what's most effective for the individual. I do better on my current meds than the SSRI I was on before, at a lower dosage relative to minimum/maximum for each drug.

It's true that antidepressants aren't a magic solution that will fix everything. Most people need therapy as well. But therapy is more effective in combination with drugs, and the drugs can for many people be the difference between staying in bed all day and getting up in the morning. Do they work for everyone? No. But that doesn't mean that they can be dismissed as a bad idea across the board.

@nerdbat interestingly enough, antidepressants greatly increase the risk of committing suicide, it's actually so bad that the US government decided to put black box labels on antidepressants
While suicidal ideation is a rare side effect of some antidepressants, the primary reason antidepressants increase the risk of a patient successfully committing suicide, especially early on in the regimen, is ironically the fact that they work. You take someone who's been feeling awful for a very long time, and maybe has been thinking about hurting themselves, but who hasn't had any drive to commit to that or any other activity, and then you give them something that helps bring them out of that state. Before they improve so much that they lose the suicidal thoughts, they find themselves able to actually take the stepp to cause themselves harm, which they didn't have the be-assed for previously. It's important to understand why there's a correlation between someone starting on antidepressants and making an attempt to commit suicide, not just to note the correlation.
 

Aleksion

They killed me
Banned
@quoting_mungo sorry to hear about your long term condition. So antidepressants help you? Good, you're lucky to be one of those who respond positively. However don't you think they hinder the progress of getting better? I mean every time you take a pill you assure yourself that you're sick, healthy people don't need medicine. It's like identifying oneself with depression as if it was a part of you. I don't see how that could help


Looking at this picture made me think, the depressed brain looks literally depressed. Very little is going inside it. So perhaps shaking the body up, you know get the blood flowing could help? But anyway, those scans say very little. They are highly inconsistent, hence not used in diagnosis of mental illness.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
However don't you think they hinder the progress of getting better? I mean every time you take a pill you assure yourself that you're sick, healthy people don't need medicine. It's like identifying oneself with depression as if it was a part of you. I don't see how that could help
I have poor enough memory I need to have a pill keeper with compartments for each day of the week, or I don't remember whether I've taken my meds any given day. The pills are something I spend literally about two minutes on in the morning, then don't think about; it's no more part of my identity than brushing your teeth is part of yours. (Assuming you're not someone whose self-worth actually hinges on how well they brush.)

More likely to remind me that I'm sick are things like needing to take a nap after spending time being social (because it exhausts me that much to be around most people).
 

Simo

Professional Watermelon Farmer
All in all, it still strikes me that antidepressant medication is at a very, very primitive stage. And they have so many negative side effects. I'm not saying they don't help some people, but for many, they can be an utterly terrifying thing to try. Having attempted maybe 6 SSRI/SNRI meds in the past, the psychiatrist I see every few months for meds had a frank talk about them, and mentioned that no, they don't work for a lot of people, and that also, some people never adjust or get used to them, and the side effects can get worse and not better. Also, many people never make it past the first week or so. He's been in practice for some 40 years, is nearing retirement, and has seen various fads in medications come and go, so it was a curious talk.

I recall when I tried these I explained to my mate how they would help 'balance' the chemicals in my brain, and he asked me: "Did they measure them?", and I thought: No, but that's an excellent question. No, they just takes guesses...if only they could measure them, in some more scientific way.

But what freaked me out the most, and seems to be the case more so with males than females were the sexual side effects: this was truly terrifying. It was like you could still manage to do things, but they didn't feel all that good. Like the were muffled, muted, or like you were struggling to actually 'feel' them they way you used to, but the sensations were off in the distance: this almost dissociate aspect of one of the body's most basic biological functions was too much; I value sensual pleasure almost like a religion, and these chemicals that upset the balance the way they did. I felt like very vital part of me had died.

What's even more baffling to me is they can't explain why this happens, nor can they do much to treat it. This sense of feelings being muted and muffled extended to other things as well: touch, taste, smell...it was like a layer of gauze hung between me and the world, and nothing seemed quite right.

~

Also, in the era since drug companies have been allowed to advertise prescription medications to the general public, there's been a sea change in terms of how people view such medications, crafted as much my Madison Avenue and Wall Street as science. Since the dawn of the Prozac era, the medicalization of depression, along with it's normalization have reduced much of the stigma: more people are being treated, and taking are more likely to try them, often simply fro their primary care doctor, and not via a psychiatrist.

I have often wondered: against this backdrop of Americans awash in Serotonin, why hasn't the suicide rate decreased? Instead, it's held quite steady, and even increased sharply among the middle aged. Some will argue that without such meds, it would be even higher, but if medical science is making such strident gains, then why has suicide remained such a common cause of death, even as more and more people seek treatment for depression?

~

I tend to think that these kinds of meds should be used after other approaches have been tried: therapy, changes in diet, exercise, and ruling out other medical factors. And while they may be indicated and helpful for some, I think they are generally over-prescribed, and in part, because advertising and business has suggested how wonderful they are, via ad after ad after ad, where you see people running through fields of flowers, fly fishing in rivers, and sitting out in the sunset, lounging on Adirondack chairs. But this is not the reality for many people; especially those who are struggling to get by, and I can't help but think that this is a disingenuous way to discuss potent, mind altering psychological medications: I don't find it ethical. Now, rather than a Dr. examining a patient and making an informed decision based on their own knowledge and experience, you have patients coming in, asking for this and that because they saw an ad on TV, or even have a coupon from a magazine. An odd state of affairs, but a good one if you're in the drug business.

~

I'm not trashing all use of meds, but I do feel they have been over-hyped, and that many people are given false hope that some magical combination of meds will help them, when there is a good chance that in fact, it will not.

There is that saying that depression is a treatable disease. True, But so's cancer and a lot of other things inbetween, and this does not mean you're going to necessarily enjoy all the side effects of said treatment.

~

Also, I've noted that classes of meds run in cycles of popularity, and villification: the 70s, the era of Benzodiazipines, and into the 80s, Tricyclate antidepressants, then this wave of SSRIs, then some SNRIs, one or two things like Wellbutrin playing on Dopamine, and a kind of zany flirtation with Antipsychotics. (I think of that creepy wind up doll ad for Abilify...were they trying to scare people on purpose?)

Again, I've found walking a lot, and eating healthy, seeing a talk therapist that I have a good relationship with, and and taking a low dose of Valium to have helped the most...but at bottom, I still think that therapy is often the key, and resolving various issues internally.
 
Last edited:
A

Alex K

Guest
The question is not if depression is real but rather if it's fake
 

Jeniver

New Member
Of course it's real. I've had it since 14.
Depression is better described as a lack of wantonness.
While depressed, you don't want to meet people, you don't want to eat food, or go outside. You don't want to be happy or get better. You don't even (really) want to die.
Escapism is all you have, but you don't really enjoy it.

Sometimes I wish I were psychotic so I could live in a more interesting world than this one.
I could be tied to a soft room for all I care as long as I'm in some other fantasy world.
This world is just so boring to me. So random, and uninspiring. And unfair.
 

Jeniver

New Member
I have poor enough memory I need to have a pill keeper with compartments for each day of the week, or I don't remember whether I've taken my meds any given day. The pills are something I spend literally about two minutes on in the morning, then don't think about; it's no more part of my identity than brushing your teeth is part of yours. (Assuming you're not someone whose self-worth actually hinges on how well they brush.)

More likely to remind me that I'm sick are things like needing to take a nap after spending time being social (because it exhausts me that much to be around most people).

Antidepressants in general are bullshit.

Depression is a complex pattern of neuron firing that feeds back into itself. You cannot change such a complex brain activity with a chemical dose. It's like trying to change how smoky water intricately swirls by adding a drop of detergent.
Sure, it changes the shape of the surface, but not in any controlled way. You're just breaking shit.
 
A

Alex K

Guest
Antidepressants in general are bullshit.

Depression is a complex pattern of neuron firing that feeds back into itself. You cannot change such a complex brain activity with a chemical dose. It's like trying to change how smoky water intricately swirls by adding a drop of detergent.
Sure, it changes the shape of the surface, but not in any controlled way. You're just breaking shit.


Dont "depression medicine" give depression as a side effect anyway?
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Antidepressants in general are bullshit.

Depression is a complex pattern of neuron firing that feeds back into itself. You cannot change such a complex brain activity with a chemical dose. It's like trying to change how smoky water intricately swirls by adding a drop of detergent.
Sure, it changes the shape of the surface, but not in any controlled way. You're just breaking shit.
That's not a very good analogy. Depression generally involves a lack of one or more signal substances in the brain; antidepressants act to increase the levels of these substances to more normal levels. They are, note, treating the symptoms, not necessarily fixing the underlying problem. In that they have more in common with pain management than with e.g. antibiotics.

You are not obligated to take them, and if you can drag yourself out of depression without them, more power to you. But as someone who is helped by them, I can say they most definitely are not bullshit. If I forget my meds, I feel like shit before the end of the day. Seeing as I don't remember whether I've taken them without checking my pill keeper, I think it's safe to say that's not a placebo effect.

Dont "depression medicine" give depression as a side effect anyway?
It's a low-frequency side effect of some antidepressants, yes. Something being a known side effect doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. Ibuprofen gives me headaches. Most people take ibuprofen to relieve (among other things) headaches. Similar principle; there's no one-size-fits-all solution.
 

Jeniver

New Member
That's not a very good analogy. Depression generally involves a lack of one or more signal substances in the brain; antidepressants act to increase the levels of these substances to more normal levels. They are, note, treating the symptoms, not necessarily fixing the underlying problem. In that they have more in common with pain management than with e.g. antibiotics.

You are not obligated to take them, and if you can drag yourself out of depression without them, more power to you. But as someone who is helped by them, I can say they most definitely are not bullshit. If I forget my meds, I feel like shit before the end of the day. Seeing as I don't remember whether I've taken them without checking my pill keeper, I think it's safe to say that's not a placebo effect.


It's a low-frequency side effect of some antidepressants, yes. Something being a known side effect doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. Ibuprofen gives me headaches. Most people take ibuprofen to relieve (among other things) headaches. Similar principle; there's no one-size-fits-all solution.

Some people also feel like shit if they don't smoke a cigarette by the end of the day.
Just because antidepressants have withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean they do anything.
If anything, that makes them practical placebos with side effects of dependence.
And by the way, depression is not a lack of signal substance in the brain. That's such an outdated hypothesis now, it's about as relevant as the flip phone.
If that were the case, our serotonin-drenched depression population would've seen lower rates of suicide, more success, etc.
As a matter of fact, in the population of ages 35 to 60 in men, suicide has actually shot up 30% since 1999.
Antidepressants are an industry. They aren't going away because they're profitable, and their irrelevance to the complex neural activity of depression won't ever have an impact on how much they're sold.
 

pidge

Member
Antidepressants in general are bullshit.

Depression is a complex pattern of neuron firing that feeds back into itself. You cannot change such a complex brain activity with a chemical dose. It's like trying to change how smoky water intricately swirls by adding a drop of detergent.
Sure, it changes the shape of the surface, but not in any controlled way. You're just breaking shit.
I've struggled with anxiety and depression for a while and because of talk like this, I was hesitant to take anti depressants. But I started taking some recently, and I'm actually doing a lot better. I typically feel happier in the spring anyway, so I'm not sure if its the weather or the pills or a combination of both, but I'm defiantly not feeling any worse. Anti depressants don't work for everyone, but they can really help some people.
 

Jeniver

New Member
I've struggled with anxiety and depression for a while and because of talk like this, I was hesitant to take anti depressants. But I started taking some recently, and I'm actually doing a lot better. I typically feel happier in the spring anyway, so I'm not sure if its the weather or the pills or a combination of both, but I'm defiantly not feeling any worse. Anti depressants don't work for everyone, but they can really help some people.

They don't do anything for me at all. Been through 6 different now. And no, not all of them were SSRIs.
I also tried antipsychotics and got temporarily overweight. Stopped them and went back to healthy.
 
A

Alex K

Guest
Well one time the Grandson fell into a depression n he's fine. It only cost him a wrist injury.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Some people also feel like shit if they don't smoke a cigarette by the end of the day.
Just because antidepressants have withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean they do anything.
If anything, that makes them practical placebos with side effects of dependence.
I'm sorry you've not had luck with antidepressants, but completely dismissing their usefulness for people for whom they do work is not really helpful. Chalking up the effects of missing a dose to withdrawal makes very little sense seeing as those effects are, well... pretty much what I was going through unmedicated.
 

Julen

✮ Banter Squad Member ✮
Nah depression is not real. It's just an invention by the government to keep us controlled and oppress us so we do what they want us to do.







Seriously what the fuck kinda question is that
 

Aleksion

They killed me
Banned
I've struggled with anxiety and depression for a while and because of talk like this, I was hesitant to take anti depressants.
Have you tried other natural methods?
They don't do anything for me at all. Been through 6 different now. And no, not all of them were SSRIs.
I also tried antipsychotics and got temporarily overweight. Stopped them and went back to healthy.
omg hold your horses bro! You're only 18 and you already tried so many drugs. Be careful not to poison yourself beyond repair. They don't allow anyone under 21 to buy beer, because alcohol can easily damage growing body, but hand out hardcore drugs to children like it was nothing and the worst is you're told to use them everyday.
You are not obligated to take them, and if you can drag yourself out of depression without them, more power to you. But as someone who is helped by them, I can say they most definitely are not bullshit. If I forget my meds, I feel like shit before the end of the day. Seeing as I don't remember whether I've taken them without checking my pill keeper, I think it's safe to say that's not a placebo effect.
A pill box? America's fashion. I'm still skeptical though. If you were taking them regularly for a long time, don't you think you had developed tolerance?
Of course it's real. I've had it since 14.
Depression is better described as a lack of wantonness.
While depressed, you don't want to meet people, you don't want to eat food, or go outside. You don't want to be happy or get better. You don't even (really) want to die.
Escapism is all you have, but you don't really enjoy it.
Ah so you feel numb? Isn't that denationalization? Anyway go on the scariest roller coaster, it ought to bring those lost feelings back.
Nah depression is not real. It's just an invention by the government to keep us controlled and oppress us so we do what they want us to do.
Actually it is like food supplements, you make them buy the product by telling your costumers what they want to hear and because everyone is so well educated nowadays, you sponsor biased research which supports your claims, so the product is scientifically proven. It's just business.
 

Saiko

GTWT Survivor
Anyway go on the scariest roller coaster, it ought to bring those lost feelings back.
And with this I declare the discussion with Aleksion futile. He has so little understanding of mental health with such a firm opinion that nothing will ever come of it.
 
Top