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Kothorix's new video makes me want to stop being a furry.

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Yakamaru

Å nei, cringe

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Jasonafex also made an interesting Journal some 9 hours ago, which kinda touches upon the subjects already mentioned in the thread:
www.furaffinity.net: Furries are Toxic - What to do about it ☣️ -- Jasonafex's Journal
"What's the biggest problem with Furry, these days? Is it the Zoophilia? The Pedophilia defense? The (supposed) commonness of willfully spreading STDs to partners without their consent*?"
"No. It is none of those things: It's the college students. Them and their "Identity Politics" which are the true problem."

Jasonafex in a nutshell, everyone. For a bit of humorous engagement with his journal entry instead of its writer, however, I'm a bit curious as to how they came to the conclusion that the target demographic has "become" college-aged persons considering we have had surveys going back pre-2012 which conclude that the vast majority of the fandom's members has almost always been around the 18-25 age bracket. And that's about as much engagement as I can actually give the post because the writers is a hilariously blatant case of the old "throwing stones in glass houses" proverb with about ninety percept of the points they bring up when not grandstanding.

Furthermore, while the fandom... definitely isn't exactly where I'd like it to be, it's definitely come a long way in the last six years versus the other way around (wherein there was less and less blatant Nazi apologia, yeah, but almost infinitely more for Pedophilia / Zoophilia to the point that one of the big scandals a few years back was quite literally 'Neer going "Take your cub porn elsewhere". Something that was only done in the first place not out of a moral stance or the like but because it was costing FA money from advertisers and risked its costs exceeding its ad revenue. Or perhaps we should get into the "How dare Google adjust its search algorithms so you can't just type a MLP character's name in Image Search and immediately be bombarded with porn: I shouldn't have to add the word 'Porn' or NSFW' to my search query!"?). Not to say the first of those three things isn't a huge problem in and of itself, particularly taken in context with current events, but given the way the wind's blowing even in that regard and that this is breaking off from the OP's point, I'd argue the fandom is in a much better spot now than it was even just 3-4 years ago when you couldn't even look on forums like this or Phoenix without tripping over people patting themselves on the back over some pretty horrible shit.

*There's a handful of Furry "popufur" examples who engaged in as much, but to my knowledge no official studies on the matter so I'm including it mostly due to OP's inclusion.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I feel there are two fallacies buzzing around with Kothorix and Jasonafex.

'Every furry is disgusting except for me,' and 'Get off my lawn you damn whippersnappers'.

@KimberVaile already pointed out that the folk who complain that all of the furries are 'degenerates' routinely turn out to be hypocrites who defend monstrous behaviours themselves, like drawing pornography of underage characters, and of course, in the case of people who complain about 'identity politics', you'll often find them attacking imaginary versions of college students over minor grievances that don't really matter, but performing mental gymnastics to defend people's 'right' to say racist things on social media.
So why do these folk insist that all of the furries are disgusting degenerate identitarians? I have a suspicion it's because, if they can persuade themselves that everybody else is worse, their own sins don't seem so bad anymore.

There's a much simpler explanation for people who complain about all the young furries of course. They just haven't realised that 'everybody seems so young' not because everybody else is getting younger, but they themselves getting older. x3
 

Meikiron

New Member
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Kumali

Lupine-American
Who are Kothorix and Jasonafex and why should I care?
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Who are Kothorix and Jasonafex and why should I care?

Who are they?
Jasonafex is an artist and animator famous for making popular pornographic animations. Sometimes his commission slots sell for hundreds of dollars.

Why are they controversial?
Jasonafex made a litany of strange statements on social media, such as suggesting that children benefit from being beaten, and made himself infamous after producing a comic called 'man's best friend' in which the characters have sex with their dogs.


Who are they?
Kothorix used to be a furry. He has a youtube channel that started with game reviews and transitioned into a soap box for his political views.

Why are they controversial?
These pictures should be self explanatory.
upload_2018-11-3_13-32-42.png

upload_2018-11-3_13-33-6.png

upload_2018-11-3_13-33-33.png

upload_2018-11-3_13-34-26.png
 

Dancy

chillin.
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Kumali

Lupine-American
Who are they?
Jasonafex is an artist and animator famous for making popular pornographic animations. Sometimes his commission slots sell for hundreds of dollars.

Why are they controversial?
Jasonafex made a litany of strange statements on social media, such as suggesting that children benefit from being beaten, and made himself infamous after producing a comic called 'man's best friend' in which the characters have sex with their dogs.


Who are they?
Kothorix used to be a furry. He has a youtube channel that started with game reviews and transitioned into a soap box for his political views.

Why are they controversial?
These pictures should be self explanatory.
let's not forget that kothorix is a pedo apologist who has always gone to bat for pedophiles on furry youtube.
ugh.

Fair enough, thanks for the info. But I personally don't feel in any danger of wanting to "stop being a furry" just because such people exist...they don't represent me as a furry any more than the disgusting likes of Rush Limbaugh, say, represents me as an American.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Fair enough, thanks for the info. But I personally don't feel in any danger of wanting to "stop being a furry" just because such people exist...they don't represent me as a furry any more than the disgusting likes of Rush Limbaugh, say, represents me as an American.

Oh definitely, yeah.
 

Faexie

Rara for short :)
I found his video interesting, but I, as well as many people who have been in the fandom for years, have never (or rarely) came across the toxicity he's talking about.

The way Kothorix has been interacting with the fandom made it so that he would see the dark side of the fandom more often than the average furry would.

When he talked about adults adults preying on teens and children, he mentioned that at 14 he was actively seeking porn and sexual roleplay. Now, while I think roleplaying is as harmful to a teen as watching porn featuring adults (wich is not much, watched lots and I'm just fine), the fact that some adults want to do this with them makes me uncomfortable. And also he said that some were harassing him or trying to have irl sex, wich is not ok. And I'm also not trying to victim blame him. But anyway, what I was going to is that a teen who is seeking out sexual roleplay is more likely to attract creepy perverts than a teen who doesn't.

Most of his examples of toxic sjws were from twitter and tumblr, platforms wich are already well known for their toxicity. And when he says that most of the problematic people were furries, I'm assuming that, as a furry youtuber, most of his followers are furries in the first place. But I didn't look it up so I might be wrong.

He talked about inconstistent rules about what's acceptable or not (like bdsm one day being good and the other day bad), but I think that's just a case of different people/groups believing different things.

When he said that most people prefer toony fursuits because that's what's popular, I'm somewhat sceptic. I think there may be a bit of that, but let's think about what made most furries furries: Disney, cartoons... most of it in a cartoony style. And yes, really good looking toony suits cost a fortune. Top tier makers are in high demand after all.

Speaking about that statistic that 20% of furries consider themselves zoophiles, if it really is accurate, it's possible that there is more nuance that that, because the definition of zoophilia differs depending on the person. Some zoophiles will fantasize about animals, watch drawings of them or videos of them mating with their own species, but would never have sex with an animal or watch people do it. Other people may believe that an attraction towards anthropomorphic animals count as zoophilia, even if there is no attraction to real life/feral animals, too.

And a whole bunch of other thing that is a problem with people on the internet in general, and not with the furry fandom specifically.

Every fandom have some toxicity to it, but it's possible to avoid it to an extent so that it can still be enjoyable.
 
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Tyno

Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam
Seriously. I watched it all. It almost made me fucking cry.
seriously now i'm a bit depressed and angry that the fandom that i like and want to be associated with is like this, and i feel like taking it out on either myself or this $200 music sound module my dad bought me that's on my desk. i'm trying to restrain myself.

The main points in the video (which are also the reasons why I want to leave) are:

- If people are going to prey on little children and get them to do stuff they shouldn't,
- If the fandom is going to be a breeding ground for horny teens, kiddy fuckers, and animal fuckers,
- if people are going to be sociopathic about sex ("OwO i will ask you to rp with me until you get annoyed and you block me", i was one of these people so I know what it was like),
- if STDs are going to be given to people in the fandom without people's consent,
- if furries are going to be the degenerate sex freaks that they constantly claim not to be,
- if the fandom is going to be full of really hateful people,
- if the fandom is going to be full of special snowflakes and people defending them, and full of depressed and socially awkward people and shit, who only want to bitch and moan and rant, and cuddle if they want,
- if the fandom is going to be perpetually high-school-minded without ever growing up, without any maturity,
- if the fandom is going to be a "hivemind" full of SJW's who take things out of context and drive people to the point of suicide, and an "anti-hivemind" who is supposedly against this "hivemind" but does the exact same things as said "hivemind",
- if the fandom's "rules" are going to be hypocritical (e.g. feral artwork is okay because it's just art, but no cub art isn't, again, the work of the "hivemind"),
- if the "vocal minority" is going to be 1/3 of the fandom, instead of 5% like people claim it to be (and that people even make this claim),
- if people are going to claim that the fandom is better than it is,

- if the fandom is going to be incessantly toxic,
- if the fandom is going to have a higher concentration of the listed above than any other fandom,
then people should not be a part of the fandom.

Like I WANT to be a part of the fandom but these things greatly concern me.

Another thing is this gem I found:



Like seriously idk what to think or do.
Here's what i've learned from people don't rely on them for these types of things. Go look for yourself don't just believe someones words it's literally taking someone else's opinion without making your own. Kothorix was obviously biased opinion i've watch him myself but bias isn't always a good thing (if ever).
 

Pipistrele

Smart batto!
The cognitive dissonance in this thread is real, and a little cringy.
Frankly, I just got irritated by his unreasonably condescending tone combined with a lot of arguments bordering on "edgy right-wing youngster" stuff I usually see on Kiwifarms - both combined with the fact that he still uses a cyan dragon fursona and drops slang around, so it's a rather half-assed attempt at "leaving the fandom" in any case. I'm not even denying the problematic state of the fandom, and I never shied away from mentioning some of its worst aspects (especially the horrible situation with underage participants and lack of control in that regard) - it's just that the guy himself appears to be kind of a self-righteous douche, and the way he delivers the message kills a lot of otherwise valid complaints that should ideally be discussed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Toby_Morpheus

Hello, Proto
Here's what i've learned from people don't rely on them for these types of things. Go look for yourself don't just believe someones words it's literally taking someone else's opinion without making your own. Kothorix was obviously biased opinion i've watch him myself but bias isn't always a good thing (if ever).
It's called anecdotal evidence. You can make any claim you want based on what you experience, but you need to bring evidence to the table if you want to talk about a larger scale issue.
He did try a couple times with charts, but they're of nebulous quality, admitting the STD line chart is flawed in an update made in the comments.

Also, everyone is going to have bias in some way or another. We're creatures of memories and experiences and will always compare new information to old in search of patterns.
Take in all information skeptically and assess them critically with other sources. It's the only way to escape bias.
 

Faexie

Rara for short :)
Frankly, I just got irritated by his unreasonably condescending tone combined with a lot of arguments bordering on "edgy right-wing youngster" stuff I usually see on Kiwifarms. I'm not even denying the problematic state of the fandom, and I never shied away from mentioning some of its worst aspects (especially the horrible situation with underage participants and lack of control in that regard) - it's just that the guy himself appears to be kind of a self-righteous douche ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He's usually not that biased and does his best to understand other points of view, even with points of views that make him uncomfortable. A lot of his videos were very interesting to me. I think he was just in a bad place and needed to vent.
 

Pipistrele

Smart batto!
He's usually not that biased and does his best to understand other points of view, even with points of views that make him uncomfortable. A lot of his videos were very interesting to me. I think he was just in a bad place and needed to vent.
He probably is? Fact is, he still made a very poor job of delivering the message, which is something I find a more realistic reason people dislike the vid, rather than "sick burn, ur cringe"
 

Faexie

Rara for short :)
-Defends cub porn and zoophilia

Well, not exactly. He comes from a very religious background and has been told he was a devil worshiper for being into dragons (both sexually and not) and for having sexual feelings at all. So he has that mentality that "x is bad because it's bad and you shouldn't question it" is wrong, wich brings him to entertain the notion of pedophilia and zoophilia being not that bad. But he doesn't really think that, he actually finds these things gross.

Basically his stance is that having sexual feelings and experimenting with them in a fictional way is fine, but acting on it irl (and encouraging others to do so) is horrible.
 

Toby_Morpheus

Hello, Proto
Well, not exactly. He comes from a very religious background and has been told he was a devil worshiper for being into dragons (both sexually and not) and for having sexual feelings at all. So he has that mentality that "x is bad because it's bad and you shouldn't question it" is wrong, wich brings him to entertain the notion of pedophilia and zoophilia being not that bad. But he doesn't really think that, he actually finds these things gross. Basically his stance is that having sexual feelings and experimenting with them in a fictional way is fine, but acting on it irl is horrible.
Not a lot of study seems to have gone into this, so don't take my word as ultimate truth, but it does appear that pedophiles who use an analogue, like artwork or dolls, they're far less likely to inflict themselves upon real people.
I personally find it appalling, but I also think that such claims should be studied more because they would be for moving toward a society where children are kept safe and people with the problem can be treated safely.
 
M

Miseix

Guest
I have no authority to really care about this, but there are clearly furrs here whom are more qualified for this,
If it means anything, I think you need to steel yourself up,
As a posed to acting like a pile of jelly,
(no offense)
 

TrishaCat

The Cat in the FAF
Furries suck but the concept of "stop being a furry" has never made sense to me because a bunch of people being awful doesn't really stop one from liking something. Like I'm not gonna stop thinking anthropomorphic animals are rad just because random furry over here is being awful.

Instead I'm just going to be filled with high levels of anxiety on a daily basis scared shitless some other furry is going to yell at me someday.
 
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