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Mac or PC?

You can't deny, CodArk, that Mac's cost more...I can literally go to the Apple website, and go to the Alienware website, build the parallel specs and Mac will cost upwards of 500 more. And if you've used a computer more than once in your life, the difficulty of using a computer from ANY brand is not difficult. The
 

Nineteen-TwentySeven

Four Eyes; Zero Soul
You can't deny, CodArk, that Mac's cost more...I can literally go to the Apple website, and go to the Alienware website, build the parallel specs and Mac will cost upwards of 500 more. And if you've used a computer more than once in your life, the difficulty of using a computer from ANY brand is not difficult. The
Can't be any harder than the days of DOS. After 30 minutes of typing getting nowhere I accidentally formatted a boot image of it in a virtual machine.
 

CodArk2

Annoyed dragon
You can't deny, CodArk, that Mac's cost more...I can literally go to the Apple website, and go to the Alienware website, build the parallel specs and Mac will cost upwards of 500 more. And if you've used a computer more than once in your life, the difficulty of using a computer from ANY brand is not difficult. The

Macs do cost mor, but apple haters tend to exaggerate the price difference. I said two years ago that a computer with similar specs the Mac will not cost much more, and was shouted down with " no macs are three times as expensive as PCs" over and over. alienware is much less reliable than macs are and tend to have a high breakdown rate.I would rather spend the extra 500 and have a computer that will actually work instead of being returned to the manufacturer for some technical problem.

I also did not say that windows was hard to use,I said it was harder to use than macs. Having extensively used both operating systems and taught others to use them it's an easy statement to make. Windows is a more difficult is to use. And the file system on Mac os is much easier to navigate.
 

greg-the-fox

Well-Known Member
Well it depends on a number of things.

Apple is really, really good at cramming a lot of hardware into a tiny package. They can do this because all of the parts are custom made for the machines, where PCs all have to use stock parts so they can NEVER compete when it comes to making a really slim and elegant, but still very powerful product. The major downside is that trying to get into a Mac and replace a part is a hell of a lot more work (but not impossible) whereas in a PC it would be much more simple. Your options are very limited, but the build quality is very good. I think Mac wins in terms of portable devices; laptops, tablets, etc. Really light, fast, great battery life, great screens, and fantastic user interfaces. Apple has mastered touch technology, both in terms of touch screens and trackpads. You won't find a trackpad on any PC laptop that compares to one on a Macbook.

When it comes to pre-built desktops, apple still comes out ahead in terms of quality. Yes the Mac Pro is extremely expensive but it is a workstation desktop, not a consumer desktop. (that's what the iMac is for, and try to find a more powerful all-in-one PC that is as slim) Similar PC workstation desktops to the Mac Pro are also very expensive, they are just for a different use group. But here is where the PC shines and completely destroys Apple... the ease and low cost to upgrade, and the ability to build a PC from scratch. Custom PCs are both far cheaper than pre-built PCs, and far, FAR cheaper than Mac desktops. You can completely outstrip a Mac in terms of power for very little cost. You can put absolutely anything into one and have complete control over everything that goes into your computer. Obviously you have to have quite a bit more tech knowledge to do this, but you could still buy a pre-built custom PC or hire someone to assemble one for you. A lot of people would argue that a custom PC is a necessity for gaming. But for off-the-shelf computers, I really think Macs are still best overall, especially for the layman with little tech knowledge.

As far as the operating system, both are good, but I infinitely prefer OSX. I'm biased because my dad has always been a big Apple fan and I grew up with Mac computers. It's just a really simple, intuitive, quick interface that doesn't get in the way and gives you the best workflow possible in my opinion. Yes Windows gives you a lot more control, but that's not to say Mac gives you no control, it's just a bit more hidden in the "advanced" options, and then you can always use Terminal for really advanced things (I would not recommend that unless you really know what you are doing) Windows Explorer is pretty similar to the Finder, I would say it's kind of a tie. But I HATE the Control Panel in Windows, it's a horrible interface. You really would not understand unless you used System Preferences in Mac, it is really one of my favorite things about the OS.

Windows feels very, very cluttered and bloated with useless crap. Loooots of bloatware, especially if you get an off-the-shelf PC or laptop. It feels like a lot of Windows' "features" are designed to keep old people happy, and you have to turn it off because it gets in the way (sticky keys anyone?) The programs that come bundled with Windows just feel like the bare minimum for day to day tasks. The stuff that comes with Mac is a lot better, Mac has Preview, iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband, etc. It has the advantage of being geared for content creation out of the box. Pretty much any content creation software you can put on a Mac you can also put on a PC, so it's not like PCs aren't good for that too. But there's a few programs like Logic Pro and Final Cut which are industry standards now, and Mac only.

In terms of software compatibility and peripheral hardware, Macs are a gated community. It does make things run a lot more smoothly and safely, and you don't have to worry about drivers for every device on the planet, but this is the Mac's downfall. You will always get more general usability from a PC, it's just the way it works. You pretty much have to have a PC for gaming. Yes there are an increasing number of games for the Mac but it really is not enough to justify gaming on the Mac at all. Good luck finding any peripheral gaming devices which will work on the Mac. No surround sound, no Blu Ray support. Mac is getting to be pretty decent at 3rd party support but PC just blows it out of the water.

There's also the professional business environment, all Windows. Servers, all Windows or Linux. Though Macs are increasingly used for content creation professionally, it is still the PC's domain. The architecture industry for one (which I'm planning on getting into) is all PC, all Autodesk software for CAD, 3D modeling, etc is geared for the PC (some is available for the Mac though)

Overall, I would say I am a fan of using both for different functions. Get a Macbook Air or something AND build yourself a kick ass gaming rig, if you can afford it. The price on Apple products is the biggest deterrent, but I think it is there for a reason (and yes a large amount of it is marketing too) And though this might not matter to PC users, Apple's really damn good at appearances, and appearance does matter. I really wish more products focused on appearance, there are too many ugly things in the world. (maybe it's vain of me to say, but I think it's true) Apple introduced the idea that computers can be art, and I think that does have a place in the scheme of things.
 
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Macs do cost mor, but apple haters tend to exaggerate the price difference. I said two years ago that a computer with similar specs the Mac will not cost much more, and was shouted down with " no macs are three times as expensive as PCs" over and over. alienware is much less reliable than macs are and tend to have a high breakdown rate.I would rather spend the extra 500 and have a computer that will actually work instead of being returned to the manufacturer for some technical problem.

I also did not say that windows was hard to use,I said it was harder to use than macs. Having extensively used both operating systems and taught others to use them it's an easy statement to make. Windows is a more difficult is to use. And the file system on Mac os is much easier to navigate.

Well it is true in some cases. A Macbook Air costs a grand, a good Netbook costs 300-400 (And an equally functional iPad costs 700-900)...So it is true in more cases than not. However a basic laptop may cost around 700, whereas a Macbook Pro costs minimum 1200. A solid PC (not advanced) costs 800-1100, the minimum iMac is 1200. The PC comes with oh...: An i7 processor (Mac = i5), 8gigs of ram (Mac = 4g), 1-2tb of memory (Mac = 500gb), blu-ray player, 4-8 USB slots, HDMI/DVI, and around the same video card, but maybe 1gb instead of 512 - Plus 650-900w so that you can upgrade in the future. They don't even offer an i7 iMac right now. They do have Quad cores for 2500, but you can get a Quad Core Windows machine for less than half that.

Now then, my point with Alienware was this - They are WAY overhyped, and while I've not explicitly had any problems with them, they are way overpriced as well...Just like Apple computers are, but yet are still somehow cheaper then those. I wouldn't advise anyone to buy an Alienware, was just using it for comparisons sake.

I don't see how the filing system in Windows is harder, though if you're doing something more complex than installing a cracked game, then maybe. If somebody can't follow the blatant and easy address trail, then they just need the 'Big Blue e' button on their desktop that automatically loads them to their email.

(Also @Gregthefox, All-in-ones are more powerful than you think. You can get a mediocre quad-core for a grand from Costco, and upgrade it to better specs and still save money versus buying a Mac)

It actually took longer to write this post, then it did to find the prices of what I'm talking about - That's how easy it is.
 
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Nineteen-TwentySeven

Four Eyes; Zero Soul
You sure told me?

Sorry, Grandpa.
I should've worded that differently. That's what I get for posting late at night. I should say nothing could be harder than DOS. I had to use it when I modded a 120GB Western Digital drive into my 360, and I don't think I could've been more confused.

Mac, PC, either way you're equally fucked when you finally knock the thing off the counter or something.
One thing I really like about my mac is the magsafe charger. That's saved it from a trip to the floor countless times, where tripping over the cord has sent my netbook flying several times now. Thank goodness for SSDs.
 
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Elim Garak

Guest
There's sleek laptops that cost way less the mac and are more powerful.
Also http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/13/retina-mpb-ifit-teardown/
You can't even upgrade the damn SSD or memory. What a joke.

Anyways after years of professional experience, Windows is the best for regular users and Pro, Linux is good for power users as well, Mac is good for children and people who are completely retarded beyond the average computer user.

There is no way you can justify the overpriced crap, subpar hardware, not only spec wise but also in actual construction and components used. The fall out rate is also way higher then say HP, Lenovo or ASUS.
 

CodArk2

Annoyed dragon
Well it is true in some cases. A Macbook Air costs a grand, a good Netbook costs 300-400 (And an equally functional iPad costs 700-900)...So it is true in more cases than not. However a basic laptop may cost around 700, whereas a Macbook Pro costs minimum 1200. A solid PC (not advanced) costs 800-1100, the minimum iMac is 1200. The PC comes with oh...: An i7 processor (Mac = i5), 8gigs of ram (Mac = 4g), 1-2tb of memory (Mac = 500gb), blu-ray player, 4-8 USB slots, HDMI/DVI, and around the same video card, but maybe 1gb instead of 512 - Plus 650-900w so that you can upgrade in the future. They don't even offer an i7 iMac right now. They do have Quad cores for 2500, but you can get a Quad Core Windows machine for less than half that..

Macs are more expensive, but not as much as apple haters and the like say. Comparing a netbook to a macbook air is dishonest, macbook air is quite a bit more powerful than your average netbook. They are more like ultrabooks, which are quite a bit more expensive. Yhe least expensive desktop mac is about 500 bucks.The rest is just tech specs that only matter in e-penis comparisons. Macs function fine with what they have now. I just proves my point that the reason some hate macs is because they dont give the btagging rights in e-penis comparisons. (hurnng mine is bigger! mine is faster! mine has more!=e-penis)

I don't see how the filing system in Windows is harder, though if you're doing something more complex than installing a cracked game, then maybe. If somebody can't follow the blatant and easy address trail, then they just need the 'Big Blue e' button on their desktop that automatically loads them to their email.

It is harder, I have used both. Macs have a logical file system, windows puts things all over the place. Bits and peices of a programs files can end up in 5 different places on a computer. I have used both operating systems, windows was harder to find things in than mac os was.


Anyways after years of professional experience, Windows is the best for regular users and Pro, Linux is good for power users as well, Mac is good for children and people who are completely retarded beyond the average computer user.

There is no way you can justify the overpriced crap, subpar hardware, not only spec wise but also in actual construction and components used. The fall out rate is also way higher then say HP, Lenovo or ASUS.

You are likely an IT guy. Only one of those would say something so...stupid. Windows is best for regular users? Please. Macs are easier to use for the basic user than windows is. The average user does not care about how much RAM they have, or their processor, or the ports on it, they just want something that will work. Macs work. Windows works but with a lot more handholding.

I am a mac user and i know more about computers than many people, saying macs are for children or retarded people shows you likely have never used one and know nothing about them. They can be quite complex, just as much as windows or linux.I find it funny that the people that dont like macs find it necessary to attack mac users as being children or retarded, then turn around and call mac users elitists.

Yjen you go into the spec thing, which is mostly for e-penis comparisons, but dont actually matter much now a days. on their desktops they are a bit behind , nto so much on laptops, but they dont play GAMEZ!!!11!! so they are worthless to the children...i mean windows users.

I am not on a crusade to get everyone using macs, but you seem to be on on one to make everyone use PCs. It isnt your money and isnt your choice, so dont attack people who make different choices as being retarded or children, it makes you sound arrogant, pretentious and snobbish, just like the supposed mac users you hate.
 
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Elim Garak

Guest
Hahah, Windows works fine for people with basic intelligence, like I said, I work in a rather high IT position, The questions and issues coming from mac users are way more retarded then the average windows user.
Also, like I said it's not just the specs but also lifetime of the device, Apple uses rather terrible capacitors compared to say Asus. There is no real more user friendly Ness with Mac OS x, perhaps only basic drivers but most users bring their systems to a shop for reinstall and in both systems. Apple has also lied for years about the warranty, instead of the EU law's 2 years they listed 1 year with offers to increase the warranty. Apple has often told their employees to lie about current issues till they couldn't anymore due the pressure.
 

BRN

WTB Forum Mod Powers
Hahah, Windows works fine for people with basic intelligence, like I said, I work in a rather high IT position, The questions and issues coming from mac users are way more retarded then the average windows user.
Also, like I said it's not just the specs but also lifetime of the device, Apple uses rather terrible capacitors compared to say Asus. There is no real more user friendly Ness with Mac OS x, perhaps only basic drivers but most users bring their systems to a shop for reinstall and in both systems. Apple has also lied for years about the warranty, instead of the EU law's 2 years they listed 1 year with offers to increase the warranty. Apple has often told their employees to lie about current issues till they couldn't anymore due the pressure.
Citations? :s
 

CodArk2

Annoyed dragon
Hahah, Windows works fine for people with basic intelligence

So does most any computer, including a mac. Macs are not any harder to use than a PC, and because I have used both extensively., in my experience they are easier to use.

like I said, I work in a rather high IT position, The questions and issues coming from mac users are way more retarded then the average windows user.

Most IT people tell others to buy windows and linux, not because they are better, but because they dont know how to use macs. Most IT people have an overbearing ego and act hostile to anything that threatens to crush it. For macs, its because IT people know little about them but want to appear to know everything about computers, so they tell people to use windows and linux because its what *they* know how to use. Then make up a million other excuses to try and justify their dislike, or outright hatred. Macs aren't for everyone, but neither are PCs or linux computers.

As for questions, I am guessing they were things like how to start up applications, or use the file system or turn it off, or where the disk drive or power button were. Most are so used to windows when they come to macs they expect it to work exactly like windows and panic when it doesn. Course they made the first mistake: asking an IT guy, when often IT people know little or nothing about macs. They would be better off using google, asking a mac owning friend, or going to the apple website for help.Likely ythe most common "issue" is people pressing command-alt-control 8 and freaking out when their screen color flips. Once someone actually figured out how to use a mac (which usually doesnt take too long), they tend not to need much help.


Also, like I said it's not just the specs but also lifetime of the device, Apple uses rather terrible capacitors compared to say Asus. There is no real more user friendly Ness with Mac OS x, perhaps only basic drivers but most users bring their systems to a shop for reinstall and in both systems. Apple has also lied for years about the warranty, instead of the EU law's 2 years they listed 1 year with offers to increase the warranty. Apple has often told their employees to lie about current issues till they couldn't anymore due the pressure.

Most macs last quite a while, i still have some working that are about 11 tears old, and i am not an isolated case either. Not all macs last that long, but most last quite a while. They certainly dont break down all the time, just as windows computers usually dont.

http://www.slashgear.com/asus-now-more-reliable-than-apple-says-study-2438719/
http://hothardware.com/News/ASUS-More-Reliable-Than-Apple-But-Lenovo-Bests-Them-All-/

From a small amount of searching, the study were 3 years ago and measured the three month reliability. Apple will repair or replace any computer with hardware issues if its under a year old. As for user-friendliness, thats subjective. I personally find OSX much more user friendly than windows, but someone that has been usinfg windows for 20 years would likely say windows is easier and more user friendly. its not really possibly to say one operating system is easier for all, but in genenral i have found teaching people to use mac os is much easier than teaching them to use windows os.
 
Mac, PC, either way you're equally fucked when you finally knock the thing off the counter or something.
Some computers are better than others when it comes to that. Lenovo ThinkPads and MacBooks are known for being drop resistant. I once saw someone drop a ThinkPad down a flight of stairs and it survived. It had an SSD so everything was okay storage wise, but if it had an HDD that would be gone for sure.
 
Macs are more expensive. Comparing a netbook to a macbook air is dishonest, macbook air is quite a bit more powerful than your average netbook. They are more like ultrabooks, which are quite a bit more expensive.

It is harder, I have used both. Macs have a logical file system, windows puts things all over the place. Bits and peices of a programs files can end up in 5 different places on a computer. I have used both operating systems, windows was harder to find things in than mac os was.

Yes, Mac's are expensive. We JUST WENT OVER THIS.

Mac's are still more expensive than Ultrabooks too, at least when regarding Bestbuy.com (sells both Apple & Windows products) - I can still do similar with different websites too and come to the same conclusion.

I have extensively used both too - You keep swinging that around like the e-peni you're talking about, and it seriously doesn't matter.

I don't see how going "C:\program files" is difficult, unless you install everything to the desktop? Every program I've installed is there, and most, if not all pieces of it are there. How is this difficult?

I know that the CACHE on programs can log elsewhere, but almost all users don't need that, and opening up a search and finding out where that is...Is ridiculously easy. I dunno HOW you manage to install programs in more area's than one, so that's on you.

Maybe that's why PC's are harder for you?
 

CodArk2

Annoyed dragon
Yes, Mac's are expensive. We JUST WENT OVER THIS.

Mac's are still more expensive than Ultrabooks too, at least when regarding Bestbuy.com (sells both Apple & Windows products) - I can still do similar with different websites too and come to the same conclusion.

I have extensively used both too - You keep swinging that around like the e-peni you're talking about, and it seriously doesn't matter.

I don't see how going "C:\program files" is difficult, unless you install everything to the desktop? Every program I've installed is there, and most, if not all pieces of it are there. How is this difficult?

I know that the CACHE on programs can log elsewhere, but almost all users don't need that, and opening up a search and finding out where that is...Is ridiculously easy. I dunno HOW you manage to install programs in more area's than one, so that's on you.

Maybe that's why PC's are harder for you?

First off, I fail to see why my opinion on macs or PCs is the only one that needs to be debated. You are not going to convince me PCs are better, and i am not trying to convince you or others macs are better, just not as bad as you make them out to be.

Most ultrabooks with similar specs are the same price as apple stuff. In some areas PCs dont compete with macs either, so comparison is moot.

Most people that hate macs have not used them, they hate them based on what their friends say. Almost all mac users have had to use PCs, most PC users have not used macs. Most of the mac haters use stuff from over 10 years ago and act like its still true today. It does matter because it means most mac bashers are ignorant of what they are bashing. I dont bash windows because ive used it, i dont like quite a few things about it, but the IS itself is fine for most uses. The users are fine as well. The only group here attacking system users and Operating system here are the windows/linux users.

As for the file system, anyone who has used a mac HFS file system would look at windows file system like it was designed by retarded monkeys. It puts files all over the computer. And when i had a windows computer, i didnt want all my programs on the desktop.

On a mac the cache is in library caches. Most other things are in application support. Istnt too hard. Windows needs uninstallers to get all the files it puts everywhere. Most that have used both find mac file system easier to use, I certainly do.
 

Commiecomrade

Maximum Awesome.
I use both PC and Macs, and I greatly prefer Macs. The thing with Macs today is the gestalt. It is more than just a bunch of computer parts stuck together with an OS. It operates in such a way to remove itself from the process. That is to say, it does not interfere with what I am actually trying to do on the computer. PCs on the other hand are often painful to use. It's like they are constantly fighting you, and you have to battle with it to finally arrive at the desired product you wanted. On a Mac, it just does what I want I need it to do without any kind of false pretenses or hangups.

I can certainly see the extra thought and care that went into the design of a modern day Mac (and I mean more than the physical design), where the same considerations are notably absent from PCs. A PC is just a bunch of computer parts stuck together with an OS running it. There isn't much else to it in my opinion. Now, this is not to say that any one Mac is perfect or defect free, just the same that any one PC is a pain in the ass to use. That's basic statistics. You cannot draw a meaningful conclusion with a sample size of one (or two or three or four...). In spite of all this, I do not understand how rabid people can become over Macs and PCs. In the end, they're computers. Who gives a shit
But that's a great part! You shove all your custom and hand-picked components together, you install the OS, and the first time it passes POST you have a veritable orgasm of a feeling of accomplishment.
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Hahah, Windows works fine for people with basic intelligence, like I said, I work in a rather high IT position, The questions and issues coming from mac users are way more retarded then the average windows user.

I find that quite insulting.

Also, like I said it's not just the specs but also lifetime of the device, Apple uses rather terrible capacitors compared to say Asus.

Most likely a deliberate act so you as soon as the warranty runs out you have to spend thousands on a replacement system.

There is no real more user friendly Ness with Mac OS x, perhaps only basic drivers but most users bring their systems to a shop for reinstall and in both systems. Apple has also lied for years about the warranty, instead of the EU law's 2 years they listed 1 year with offers to increase the warranty. Apple has often told their employees to lie about current issues till they couldn't anymore due the pressure.

Because Apple is a greedy corporation that engineers it's products to last the user until a short time period after the warranty runs out.
 

ArielMT

'Net Help Desk
There's too little difference between an Apple computer and a comparably equipped PC these days. They're both IBM compatible, and they have been since Apple made the switch from PowerPC to x86. In fact, since then, Macs tend to run Microsoft Windows better than most PCs. (I still remember the laughable news that Windows Vista performed better on Apple hardware than the best OEM PCs.)

So the real question is which OS is better. Windows is getting better under the hood, but Microsoft appear to be Zuning the user interface. (Just look at Metro reactions.) But even though Windows is getting better, it's still got a way to go before it sheds its 8-bit legacy and compares favorably to Unix.

The only significant strike I can find against Mac OS is the absolutely pitiful documentation, which has somehow exceeded PCs in the quest to ship as little useful help as possible. I have noticed this most strongly in Mail.app, the standard email program bundled with Mac OS; Apple's own knowledge base doesn't document the user interface changes between versions, which makes fixing simple mail problems an exercise in frustration and guesswork. Back in the day, Macintoshes came with among the friendliest getting-started guides in the home computer industry.

As for the file system, anyone who has used a mac HFS file system would look at windows file system like it was designed by retarded monkeys. It puts files all over the computer. And when i had a windows computer, i didnt want all my programs on the desktop.

I hope you mean HFS+, because HFS was so poorly implemented that, if a Mac lost power while a file was open, HFS would delete that file on the next boot. The only other filesystem I've ever seen that would eat files like that was an early version of ext4, and I thankfully haven't discovered that from personal experience like I did with HFS.

On a mac the cache is in library caches. Most other things are in application support. Istnt too hard. Windows needs uninstallers to get all the files it puts everywhere. Most that have used both find mac file system easier to use, I certainly do.

That's because of two Windows legacies, the earlier of which had its roots in an MS-DOS legacy.

MS-DOS had no accepted filesystem hierarchy aside from the split kernel halves (io.sys, msdos.sys) and CP/M-esque shell (command.com) in the root directory, and everything else in the subdirectory "dos". Everything was free to shove its components anywhere and everywhere, including in the root directory, with barely a grasp of filing. Windows started as a GUI for MS-DOS, not an OS in its own right. During that time, Microsoft gave Windows dynamically-linked libraries (DLLs) and the ability to store configuration in plain-text INI files, but encouraged stuffing them all unfiled into the same directory (for DLLs) or the same file (Win.ini). I'm still to this day mystified that a multibillion dollar corporation could do such a poor job at file management in its cash cow.

Microsoft solved the INI problem with something arguably worse and undoubtedly more heavily abused: the registry. This, more than DLL hell, is why Windows applications have to be married to the PC they're installed on, and why an uninstaller is required to divorce the application, instead of coming ready-to-use like Mac OS applications. The closest modern Windows applications have come to Mac simplicity in installation and removal is "portable" versions of Windows applications.
 
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AshleyAshes

Arcade Snowmew Of Doom
As for the file system, anyone who has used a mac HFS file system would look at windows file system like it was designed by retarded monkeys. It puts files all over the computer. And when i had a windows computer, i didnt want all my programs on the desktop.

I don't think you know what a file system is... o_O The HFS+ file system has NOTHING to do with what directories have what data there, nor does the NTFS file system in Windows.
 
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Elim Garak

Guest
I don't think you know what a file system is... o_O The HFS+ file system has NOTHING to do with what directories have what data there, nor does the NTFS file system in Windows.
Also quite a few programmers, included good ol' Linus Torvalds commented on how crap the OS X HFS+ filesystem is compared to NTFS.

Let's not talk about ReFS that's coming out soon for Windows servers and later for clients.
 
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