Magic: The Gathering

[Garuru_Wolf]

I play Magic and have been playing it for quite a long time now (Since 7th edition). If you're just getting into the game, the best thing to do is find a group of players who only play Casual and/or EDH. Don't get sucked into playing T2/Standard. You'll end up dishing out $200+ for the top decks, only to have all of your cards rotate out of the format, becoming unplayable and losing half of their value in a year or two, and you'll constanly have to fork over more cash to buy the best rares from the newest sets (the very best cards usually run in the $10-$30 range).

With casual, depending on your playgroup, you'll be able to use pretty much any cards in the game, at all times, and casual decks are usually much, much cheaper to build and are playable until you get bored of them (Plus, I know I'll probably get some hate for saying this, but casual magic is just much more fun).

 

[ObsidianLaughter]

You'll end up dishing out $200+ for the top decks, only to have all of your cards rotate out of the format, becoming unplayable and losing half of their value in a year or two, and you'll constanly have to fork over more cash to buy the best rares from the newest sets (the very best cards usually run in the $10-$30 range).

True statement, but this could be said for all card games. Pokemon is just like this in the competitive scene, in that some of the major decks could go for upwards of 150 dollars, and if you play your cards right (lol puns), you can play the market and be rid of the cards before the format shifts. And sometimes major cards prior to rotation are still worth an uncouth amount of cash (Dark Confidant, a card from Ravnica block, almost 5-6 years old, is apparently running anywhere between 35-40 dollars) in which case you can easily shift your cards for the next batch of cards.

As for "being more fun", it depends on your playstyle. I have competition etched in my blood, and the adrenaline from a competitive game just gives me so much more in playing to win, than just being better than the bros. If you're havin fun from the casual, well, more power to ya. But I've been competitive for a long time and I just would rather play Standard. Its a matter of preference, really.

 

[AlexInsane]

I play Magic and have been playing it for quite a long time now (Since 7th edition). If you're just getting into the game, the best thing to do is find a group of players who only play Casual and/or EDH. Don't get sucked into playing T2/Standard. You'll end up dishing out $200+ for the top decks, only to have all of your cards rotate out of the format, becoming unplayable and losing half of their value in a year or two, and you'll constanly have to fork over more cash to buy the best rares from the newest sets (the very best cards usually run in the $10-$30 range).

With casual, depending on your playgroup, you'll be able to use pretty much any cards in the game, at all times, and casual decks are usually much, much cheaper to build and are playable until you get bored of them (Plus, I know I'll probably get some hate for saying this, but casual magic is just much more fun).

I prefer standard, because if you play casual you better have a damn good competitive deck, otherwise you're going to get your ass handed to you from some horribly broken card that spawns ungodly amounts of 1/1 fliers or shit like that. Casual can be ANYTHING. At least with standard you know what's being played and the strategies to counter it.

I've never seen the point of EDH - a deck made of cards you can only have 1 each of? I mean, that's all well and good if you've been a faithful collector for a couple years, but there's no way the average new player is going to be able to make a good EDH deck out of cards that work well together.

 

[Scotty1700]

I'm working towards Sondag's list from SCG invitational right now. I'm a little more than half way done. Just need Garruk's and Titans.

I dunno, I find his lack of dungroves to be disappointing and his board is reeeeaaally weird. No one runs enough artifacts for 4 Ancient grudges to be that useful, one-of ratchet bomb is useless, and with 4x green sun's why does he need to waste an extra slot on a 3rd Thrun when only two is needed.

Also, with haunted humans being a tough matchup, I'm legitimately shocked he didn't throw in combusts.

 

[Garuru_Wolf]

True statement, but this could be said for all card games. Pokemon is just like this in the competitive scene, in that some of the major decks could go for upwards of 150 dollars, and if you play your cards right (lol puns), you can play the market and be rid of the cards before the format shifts. And sometimes major cards prior to rotation are still worth an uncouth amount of cash (Dark Confidant, a card from Ravnica block, almost 5-6 years old, is apparently running anywhere between 35-40 dollars) in which case you can easily shift your cards for the next batch of cards.

As for "being more fun", it depends on your playstyle. I have competition etched in my blood, and the adrenaline from a competitive game just gives me so much more in playing to win, than just being better than the bros. If you're havin fun from the casual, well, more power to ya. But I've been competitive for a long time and I just would rather play Standard. Its a matter of preference, really.

Oh yes, I know. Trust me. I played Pokemon way back in 96 and then I played YuGiOh up until a few years ago when all of my friends switched to Magic full time or quit TCGs completely. T2 Magic has never really reached YuGiOh levels in terms of price (I remember getting $200+ value from a Dark Armed Dragon); however, YuGiOh at least does something that Magic doesn't (for the good or bad): Reprint expensive tournament staples in an easier-to-get fashion.

And yeah, you can dump your staple cards before rotation, but it's not always that easy. And yes, some cards do retain or even gain value after rotation (Goyf, Mutavault, Hierarch) but for the most part, they lose their value unless they're either A. Good enough to be played in most Eternal formats or B. A very popular casual/EDh staple

Just trying to give some warning about what to expect, though. I've seen lots of new players try to jump right in to Standard because they see everyone else playing it, and then get frustrated by the amount of money it takes to get in to the format, declare that Magic is too expensive, and quit.

I might be biased, of course. I just enjoy getting to play with all of my favorite cards that are no longer in Standard and without having to worry about whether they're good enough to beat a deck that wins before I can even cast them. Of course, I play Standard too, but my standard decks get boring much faster, for the most part.

I prefer standard, because if you play casual you better have a damn good competitive deck, otherwise you're going to get your ass handed to you from some horribly broken card that spawns ungodly amounts of 1/1 fliers or shit like that. Casual can be ANYTHING. At least with standard you know what's being played and the strategies to counter it.

I've never seen the point of EDH - a deck made of cards you can only have 1 each of? I mean, that's all well and good if you've been a faithful collector for a couple years, but there's no way the average new player is going to be able to make a good EDH deck out of cards that work well together.

Again, it all depends on your play group. A lot of Casual groups ban broken decks/strategies. Others are fine with you running 4x Dark Ritual and proxy Power 9.deck or Turn 1 Tendrals Storm.deck. The casual group I play with are mostly the "build decks with our favorite cards" type and it's understood that decks like Affinity are a no-no.

I think one of the appeals of EDH is that it's so different each time you play it. Cards for an EDh deck are easy enough to get a hold of, depending on how competitive you are wanting to make your deck, and are generally much cheaper than building a Standard deck (you only need one of each, afterall). The lands are the hardest part to get, but that's usually only a real problem if you're playing 3+ colors

 

[Yago]

I play MTG, though not very often. I don't own many cards. I plan on ordering cards to build a deck I've thought out quite well, but I'm short on cash at the moment and Chains of Mephistopheles is quite expensive.

 

[Lobar]

Um.. WotC has no contract with Pokemon anymore. This all comes through Japan now. Wizards stopped running the game once Neo set ended and Pokemon took control of the TCG by itself.

The metagame is actually not normally this bad, its just really questionable right now. It was healthy prior to Black/White sets.

I guess I'm just really showing my age here then. :V Still holds true for the base set and those trainers though. Some of those cards worked exactly like some of the most broken card-drawers of early Magic, except there was no cost at all to them.

I've never seen the point of EDH - a deck made of cards you can only have 1 each of? I mean, that's all well and good if you've been a faithful collector for a couple years, but there's no way the average new player is going to be able to make a good EDH deck out of cards that work well together.

I think it makes more sense for new players, you don't have to trade your soul away to get four copies of crucial cards to form game-breaking combos. The keys to EDH are the fundamentals - following a good mana curve, including a reasonable amount of removal, and then picking strong cards that synergize well with your commander.

I play MTG, though not very often. I don't own many cards. I plan on ordering cards to build a deck I've thought out quite well, but I'm short on cash at the moment and Chains of Mephistopheles is quite expensive.

That's a rare and old-ass card, what exactly are you trying to do with it? I think you should probably focus on learning the fundamentals with the cards you have first. If you must, make some proxies and test this deck idea out before shelling out for ancient $70 rares.

 

[Lobar]

derp double post

 

[Yago]

@Lobar

I don't own too many cards myself, but I have a brother who owns a large amount of them.

Anyways, Chains of Mephistopheles is central in a Blue/Black discard/draw deck I designed. Library of Leng is the other central card. I could post a link (though I'd have to look up the rules for link posting here I can't quite remember. Or PM or something IDK) of what I've gotten down to at the moment. I think at this point in it, however, adjusting it is just shifting sand around.

 

[Scotty1700]

I've never seen the point of EDH - a deck made of cards you can only have 1 each of? I mean, that's all well and good if you've been a faithful collector for a couple years, but there's no way the average new player is going to be able to make a good EDH deck out of cards that work well together.

EDH isn't meant to be for new players in the slightest. If you want a decent EDH/Commander deck then buy the premade ones by WoTC for $30 or so. (They're actually really good for the price). EDH is strictly a casual/fun format, no big tournaments include an EDH competition excluding side-events which aren't sponsored by the tournament anyway. EDH is the format that makes bad cards good and good cards bad. For example? Vengevine was a $25 card when it was in standard format. If put into an EDH deck you'd probably be laughed at because it simply cannot be abused. At that point it's simply a waste of one of your 99 changeable slots (your general doesn't really change once you get enough cash invested in a deck). Now, on the opposite hand, I'd MUCH rather have something such as Fertilid in my EDH deck as it's much more versatile than the previously mentioned card. At this point, a 5 cent common completely beats out what used to be a $25 mythic rare and the thing is, Fertilid is only a staple in EDH. It doesnt' see any other play because it's too slow otherwise.

 

[Lobar]

EDH isn't meant to be for new players in the slightest. If you want a decent EDH/Commander deck then buy the premade ones by WoTC for $30 or so. (They're actually really good for the price). EDH is strictly a casual/fun format, no big tournaments include an EDH competition excluding side-events which aren't sponsored by the tournament anyway. EDH is the format that makes bad cards good and good cards bad. For example? Vengevine was a $25 card when it was in standard format. If put into an EDH deck you'd probably be laughed at because it simply cannot be abused. At that point it's simply a waste of one of your 99 changeable slots (your general doesn't really change once you get enough cash invested in a deck). Now, on the opposite hand, I'd MUCH rather have something such as Fertilid in my EDH deck as it's much more versatile than the previously mentioned card. At this point, a 5 cent common completely beats out what used to be a $25 mythic rare and the thing is, Fertilid is only a staple in EDH. It doesnt' see any other play because it's too slow otherwise.

What part of any of that isn't good for newer players?

 

[ObsidianLaughter]

Incoming Wall of Text:

I dunno, I find his lack of dungroves to be disappointing and his board is reeeeaaally weird. No one runs enough artifacts for 4 Ancient grudges to be that useful, one-of ratchet bomb is useless, and with 4x green sun's why does he need to waste an extra slot on a 3rd Thrun when only two is needed.

Also, with haunted humans being a tough matchup, I'm legitimately shocked he didn't throw in combusts.

Any suggestions you might have before I waste a butt ton of money on Garruks/Titans will be greatly appreciated. Other than that, I have most of the staples needed to run this deck.

YuGiOh at least does something that Magic doesn't (for the good or bad): Reprint expensive tournament staples in an easier-to-get fashion.

M:TG did that once. The card was called pithing needle. Theme decks were going off the shelves left and right and the Mirrodin economy was very agitated by this card. Pokemon does it too. Definitely an amazing way to ruin market value right there. Yanmega Prime, a very notable card in the game before the most recent set came out was going for upwards of 35-40 dollars. Shortly before its market crash, they reprinted it in a blister pack that cost only 15 bucks. Rare card plus 3 packs? Those sold out fast. I know high pricing cards becoming staples are nice, but there is a market as well. But I guess for YGO and its unbelievably steep cost to play the game, its more helpful to deal with those tournament staples since I know I don't want to drop 1000 dollars to play the worst TCG on the market.

I've seen lots of new players try to jump right in to Standard because they see everyone else playing it, and then get frustrated by the amount of money it takes to get in to the format, declare that Magic is too expensive, and quit.

I don't recommend new players playing Type 2 at all unless they came from another card game or have competition in their blood. You need rough skin and a very logical mind as well as a decently fat wallet to get into Type 2 and do well. I've won my fair share of FNM's with some really random decks, but I also had a ton of experience and know-how of the metagame. No new player will have any knowledge of the metagame unless they do their research before hand and do an abundant amount of playtesting. You're definitely right though, no new player should be working into type 2, but eventually, if they feel its their thing, they should try to slowly work their way in (and believe me, noone goes 5-0 their first tournament in any card game.)

 

[Scotty1700]

What part of any of that isn't good for newer players?

Because most new players don't have the expensive staples that go along with it. Sure you /could/ go out and get the premade decks but you'll lose every time to someone who invested a little more into their deck.

Any suggestions you might have before I waste a butt ton of money on Garruks/Titans will be greatly appreciated. Other than that, I have most of the staples needed to run this deck.

Well I'm no pro player and I don't have all the cards I'd like for the deck but my deck list is pretty good imo. I do like some of the changes the other guy made though, 3 titans and a 3rd coil as compared to my 4 titans to 2 coils. Also I don't max out on Rampant growths but I might as my deck's been getting hated out at FNMs. I'll post a deck list in a sec.

 

[Scotty1700]

edit: Double post.

 

[Lobar]

Because most new players don't have the expensive staples that go along with it. Sure you /could/ go out and get the premade decks but you'll lose every time to someone who invested a little more into their deck.

Staples like the 5 cent common you described? That they wouldn't even draw the majority of their games even if they had due to the deckbuilding restrictions of the format? Versus buying three or four copies of each of a few crucial rares?

Not seeing it.

 

[Scotty1700]

Staples like the 5 cent common you described? That they wouldn't even draw the majority of their games even if they had due to the deckbuilding restrictions of the format? Versus buying three or four copies of each of a few crucial rares?

Not seeing it.

There's 5 cent common staples but also expensive staples. The set of 5 swords (Feast and famine = $35, Fire and Ice = $35, War and Peace = $20, Light and Shadow = $25, Body and mind = $10) , Akroma's Memorial ($20) , depending on colors you have multiple legendaries worth looking into, there's a titan for each color that are worth including ($3-$15), Umezawa's Jitte ($20), and so on. Most every deck runs all or most of these cards and they add up quick.
Edit: Also, you could run OTHER expensive cards such as tutors or divining top to find what was previously listed. I have at least one way of digging for any card in my deck which includes things like Demonic tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Idyllic Tutor, etc.

 

[AlexInsane]

I tend to play drafts a lot, but I draw the line at real tournaments - I do not have the kind of mentality (or cards, for that matter) to play that way. Drafts are fairly cheap, fun, but they can also be frustrating - if you rare-draft you're going to have a pretty awful deck, even though you've probably made some of your money back by doing so.

 

[Garuru_Wolf]

M:TG did that once. The card was called pithing needle.

Wait, I don't ever remember Pithing Needle getting reprinted until 10th edition.

But like I said, for good or bad. There will always be a split between the people who couldn't afford the cards and are happy about mass-released versions and the 'early adopters' who paid full price for them and are now upset because their cards were devalued (sometimes). I remember when YuGiOh did it for the first time by releasing Jinzo in a tin. That created such an uproar. XD

 

[ObsidianLaughter]

Wait, I don't ever remember Pithing Needle getting reprinted until 10th edition.

It wasn't a reprint. It was just in a Kamigawa theme deck, IIRC. Its not reprinted now, I don't think, but I remember during Kamigawa/Rav block, it was a very commonly seen card, and that's amusing coming from a theme deck.