Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors...

[CerbrusNL]

How could something like this happen...

On board: 154 Dutch. 27 Australian, 23 Malaysian (15 crew), 11 Indonesian, 6 UK, 4 German, 4 Belgian, 3 Filipino, 1 Canadian end 47 passengers of as of yet unknown nationality... All gone.
These were people going on vacation, business, or even going home. All gone.

There's this picture of the plane on facebook, made by one of the passengers. The caption literally reads: "May it disappear, this is what it looks like". The comments on there are heart-breaking. First people are wishing them a good holiday, then there's confusion... disbelief... grief...

I have no words for this...

This news article seems to contain the gist of the situation...

 

[Mayonnaise]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Yeah, still can't believe it myself.

 

[Lucius_Felix]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Why would someone shoot down an airliner? It didn't look remotely military.

 

[Fallowfox]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Why would someone shoot down an airliner? It didn't look remotely military.

As ayattar stated, the rebels claimed they had shot down an Antonov [before hurriedly deleting their message when it was discovered an airliner went down].

The Antonov looks like a massive airliner, essentially.

Perhaps that is what happened.

 

[Fallowfox]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

As Fallow said, for the altitude it was cruising it would give a similar radar signature to transport. What I want to know is who thought it would be a wise idea to fly over an active combat zone.

The route the plane was on is a well-established 'sky-motorway', which was currently deemed safe for transports above 31,000ft.

Professional militants would be able to easily discern civilian from military aircraft, which suggests that a sophisticated missile system was used by an idiot...which is consistent with the hypothesis that Russia has been supplying the Rebels with Buk missiles.

 

[Mayonnaise]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

WTH the news just said "tiada maklumat sahih".

 

[Inciatus]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

As ayattar stated, the rebels claimed they had shot down an Antonov [before hurriedly deleting their message when it was discovered an airliner went down].

Might you have a link or source?

 

[Fallowfox]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Might you have a link or source?

I saw it on BBC television, after Ayattar had told me about it.

 

[Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

How could something like this happen...

Happens when a crazy guy with nukes thinks it's his God given right to take land to create some Pan-Slavic nation.

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Might you have a link or source?

I found it in the polish sector of the internet. Won't work for you.

Some time ago ukrainian separatists captured Buk missile system used by the both Russia and Ukraine. So I guess it won't be possible to tell who shot down the plane - russians, separatists or ukrainians.

Another theory is, that in the same region today flew russian presidential plane
Here you have a comparison

link

Comment:
“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”

 

[Inciatus]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

I saw it on BBC television, after Ayattar had told me about it.

It is on their website now (I don't get BBC tv). It wasn't there before. Thank you.

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Happens when a crazy guy with nukes thinks it's his God given right to take land to create some Pan-Slavic nation.

I can tell you, that sanctions are already killing russian economy. That's why Putin was already preparing to change the goverment in the autumn this year. That would, most probably lift the sanctions. With current situation and events tho, that wouldn't suffice, and it's possible (still, probability of it is small) that Putin will need to resign (possible that in a way he made a feint with Miediediev, dissaper for year or two and then come back). Untill today it's wasn't considered as an option.

Because of that I'd not exclude the possibility that it might been ukrainians who shot down the plane in an attempt to blame the russians or separatists. As you can see, in this equation every side has a lot to gain if they only manage to blame the other side.

 

[Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

I can tell you, that sanctions are already killing russian economy. That's why Putin was already preparing to change the goverment in the autumn this year. That would, most probably lift the sanctions. With current situation and events tho, that wouldn't suffice, and it's possible (still, probability of it is small) that Putin will need to resign (possible that in a way he made a feint with Miediediev, dissaper for year or two and then come back). Untill today it's wasn't considered as an option.

Because of that I'd not exclude the possibility that it might been ukrainians who shot down the plane in an attempt to blame the russians or separatists. As you can see, in this equation every side has a lot to gain if they only manage to blame the other side.

The Web Brigades are already out in full mass saying now that it was a CIA op to target Putin's Air Force One. LiveLeak is tainted to the ying yang with them. Absolutely infuriating.

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Totall bullshit in my opinion.

I'm using my own reasoning and what my tutor teached me. I'm in a really priviledged position when it comes to russian (and ukrainian) inner politics, as my tutor was a general consul in Petersburg for five years, and he teaches me about it in the meanwhile (usually with a cup of tea in the hand when we're done with official things).

Yeah, if I didn't listen to him, I'd be in Rostov right now, and I'd spend there next eight months. Everyone was telling me: "no problem, it's safe, go", even my friend from Rostov. My tutor told me that I shouldn't go... And what? In less than a week they introduced a state of emergency on the whole border. Et cetera.

 

[Inciatus]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

I found it in the polish sector of the internet. Won't work for you.

Translation programs work decently well in most cases to figure out stuff for the not english section of the internet.

Some time ago ukrainian separatists captured Buk missile system used by the both Russia and Ukraine. So I guess it won't be possible to tell who shot down the plane - russians, separatists or ukrainians.

Another theory is, that in the same region today flew russian presidential plane

That would seem to imply the Ukranian forces would have shot down the plane. If in the case they meant to shoot the Russian presidential plane I don't see what they would stand to gain besides pissing most of the world off at them. If they were to have done that, I cannot imagine the west would really stand behind the Ukraine.

Though I suppose it could have been the rebels attempting to shoot down the Russian plane. If they were successful in pitting it on the Ukraine it would almost certainly provoke a large response from Russia in terms of support.

Because of that I'd not exclude the possibility that it might been ukrainians who shot down the plane in an attempt to blame the russians or separatists. As you can see, in this equation every side has a lot to gain if they manage to blame the other side.

I don't really see how Ukraine would stand to benefit except showing these people are either violent or incompetant at operating equipment; the former seems to have already been demonstated.

 

[Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Totall bullshit in my opinion.

I'm using my own reasoning and what my tutor teached me. I'm in a really priviledged position when it comes to russian (and ukrainian) inner politics, as my tutor was a general consul in Petersburg for five years, and he teaches me about it in the meanwhile (usually with a cup of tea in the hand when we're done with official things).

Yeah, if I didn't listen to him, I'd be in Rostov right now, and I'd spend there next eight months. Everyone was telling me: "no problem, it's safe, go", even my friend from Rostov. My tutor told me that I shouldn't go... And what? In less than a week they introduced a state of emergency on the whole border. Et cetera.

He's a smart guy. He doesn't put rose colored glasses to view the world. you're lucky to have him as a teacher.

Translation programs work decently well in most cases to figure out stuff for the not english section of the internet.

That would seem to imply the Ukranian forces would have shot down the plane. If in the case they meant to shoot the Russian presidential plane I don't see what they would stand to gain besides pissing most of the world off at them. If they were to have done that, I cannot imagine the west would really stand behind the Ukraine.

Though I suppose it could have been the rebels attempting to shoot down the Russian plane. If they were successful in pitting it on the Ukraine it would almost certainly provoke a large response from Russia in terms of support.

I don't really see how Ukraine would stand to benefit except showing these people are either violent or incompetant at operating equipment; the former seems to have already been demonstated.

The rebels (terrorists even before shooting it down) in the Eastern part of Ukraine bragged on twitter that they shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane. It wasn't until they found out it was a passenger plane that they removed the bragging post from Twitter. And I guess the SBU intercepted communications of terrorists talking to their Russian military handlers about shooting down an aircraft that turned out to be a passenger plane. Also, Ukraine gains nothing by shooting down Putin's or a passenger plane as it would only validate a Russian invasion and Ukraine most definitely lose that war.

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

I don't really see how Ukraine would stand to benefit except showing these people are either violent or incompetant at operating equipment; the former seems to have already been demonstated.

Well, we all know that at least to some extent russians are supporting separatists. And that means, that they would be complicit in it and that translates to heavier sanctions for them. And, without russian support (as Russia would need to refrain the support in order to keep the economy running) separatists are less dangerous. Less funding et cetera, not to mention that currently there is a silent concession from the russian goverment for exporting russian weapons to Ukraine. That would need to change. So russian goverment may not be supporting separatists per se (it's done through shitton of intermediaries, so you won't catch them in the act), but in fact is supporting them by not taking any action and closing the border only from the russian side (so nobody is going to Russia but everyone can go to Ukraine)

He's a smart guy. He doesn't put rose colored glasses to view the world. you're lucky to have him as a teacher.

Aye, he's a great man. Like second father - and I met him by an accident.

 

[Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Aye, he's a great man. Like second father - and I met him by an accident.

He did seem more like a mentor since you trusted his advice over the others.

not to go off topic, but how did you meet him?

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Umm... Let's blame my translation. I'm far from perfection in using english

Well, whatever. What I wrote here is only a theoretical speculation. It's better to believe in Ockhams' Razor, and since there were those twits and fb entries saying that separatists shot down ukrainian military plane, I'm placing my bet on them.

@ up: I'll reply using PM.

 

[Inciatus]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

He did seem more like a mentor since you trusted his advice over the others.

Though that is sort of a fuzzy line where the two cross.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

It was 'merica all along!

 

[Gryphoneer]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Nope, it was the stupid and savage jackbooted thugs of the Putin Empire.

 

[Ayattar]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Reliability of this source is equal to zero. If something, I'd faster believe in Igor Ivanovich Strielkov fb and vk ('B kontakte', russian equivalent of fb) entries regarding separatists shooting down Antonov.

 

[Toboe Moonclaw]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Anything on the rumors that the Malaysian aircraft had military escort over the zone?

 

[Gryphoneer]

Re: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down(?) over the Russia-Ukraine border. No survivors

Reliability of this source is equal to zero. If something, I'd faster believe in Igor Ivanovich Strielkov fb and vk ('B kontakte', russian equivalent of fb) entries regarding separatists shooting down Antonov.

Reliability?! Let me remind you that it was you who gave Fox News as a source and tried to support your ethnocentric, suspiciously racism-like attack on Ukraine's legitimacy with maps pulled from Google Image Search.

And you dare question my reliability or that of the goddamn New York Times? Pot, meet motherfucking kettle.