Frank Gulotta
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ALso daily reminder that medieval music is delightful
Something interesting I've found was the trans-Saharan slave trade, ranging from the 16th to 19th century. It was a staple to the sustainability and rise of the Ottoman empire. While official figures on the exact number of slaves captured from Africa in the Trans Sahara trade are contested, most scholars put the estimate at about nine million. Unsurprisingly do to inhumane conditions, as well as castration of young male slaves over 50% of those taken from Africa died before arriving. They also acquired slaves from India, Netherlands, Italy, Ireland, and as far as Iceland, due to pirating.
This was not just for labor performing slaves, but also sexual, as women were a huge demand in the Ottaman market during the time.
Thankfully these practices declined around 1970 due to pressures from Britain and America, but it should be noted that slavery was a keystone to the Ottoman empires technological and economic accomplishments, much many other civilizations throughout history.
The takeaway being that ironically the romanticized Ottoman's influence to the worlds cultures that Westerners, as some say, allegedly are oblivious to was primarily possible from the benefits provided by the enslavement of these very Westerners and much of the world themselves.
I don't doubt his descendants - the Mughals, weren't also responsible. As I noted earlier, the emperors from Aurangazeb onwards were somewhat harsher on the native Hindus, Jains and Sikhs, leading to the eventual collapse of the empire.Speaking of slavery, it's likely the main reason why Pakistan and Bangladesh even exist. When Tamerlane invaded India, he enslaved millions of Hindus (killing hundreds thousands more), and converting to islam was the only way for these people to escape slavery. Pakistan and Bangladesh are populated by their descendants. Eerie when you think about it
Speaking of slavery, it's likely the main reason why Pakistan and Bangladesh even exist. When Tamerlane invaded India, he enslaved millions of Hindus (killing hundreds thousands more), and converting to islam was the only way for these people to escape slavery. Pakistan and Bangladesh are populated by their descendants. Eerie when you think about it
Speaking of slavery, it's likely the main reason why Pakistan and Bangladesh even exist. When Tamerlane invaded India, he enslaved millions of Hindus (killing hundreds thousands more), and converting to islam was the only way for these people to escape slavery. Pakistan and Bangladesh are populated by their descendants. Eerie when you think about it
Let's just get this right the fuck out of the way: if you use the word "Islamophobia" to handwave any notion that Islam does not have nor ever has had completely clean hands and a spotless record your opinion is shit and should be flushed. Muslims can absolutely be amazing people but the religion is and always has been practiced to some extent as one of conquest and subjugation, it was and still is permissive of and even encourages slavery. The Ahmadiyya are the only sect I would EVER grant any manner of moral high ground and they are actively persecuted by both other Muslims and to some extent by dumb assholes who hate "dirty Ay-rabs". I feel for them and despise the hands they have been dealt but can do little of worth beyond refusing to condone Wahhabists and refusing to toss history down the fucking memory hole just so people like you can champion a brutal, atavistic Bronze Age conquest religion. Back then they were not out of place in the world, but now they need to grow the fuck up, like all the other fucking Abrahamics need to do and continue doing.I can't find any evidence for that narrative of conversion besides some disgusting Hindutva websites trying to compare Muslims in India to the Nazis perpetrating the Holocaust.
Its right-wing junk-bin Islamophobia and its a baseless claim.
As @Fallowfox pointed out, conversion of that area had already been started and was well underway, and Timur did enslave people - everywhere that he conquered, not just India.
History is full of ugly shit that people keep forgetting or excusing and then repeating. It's a contentious subject even by my milquetoast college history professor's admission, and not in the least because people keep trying to do the aforementioned excuse/forget/deny/rewrite. A wise man learns from mistakes others make, and a wise historian does not bury the past to serve a modern purpose.It is disheartening this thread causes so much friction.
I can't find any evidence for that narrative of conversion besides some disgusting Hindutva websites trying to compare Muslims in India to the Nazis perpetrating the Holocaust.
Its right-wing junk-bin Islamophobia and its a baseless claim.
As @Fallowfox pointed out, conversion of that area had already been started and was well underway, and Timur did enslave people - everywhere that he conquered, not just India.
Ok, crazy, but this was most likely due to the Islamic Age of Enlightement which lasted until the 12th-13th century. They actually were more adventurous and open during this scientific movement -to a point - likely due to impact of the Crusades and need for soldiers. I could see the Muslim transformation of Pakistan and some of India due to coffee trade routes and ports.Thought I'd have a look. The first Islamic nations to rule over Pakistan were the Umayyads (661-750) and the Saffarids (861-1003)
From what I can tell, only small areas came under Umayyad rule, but most of Pakistan came under Saffarid rule
After the first one shit went completely off the fucking rails. I understand the whole "fuck those Seljuks for killing pilgrims" to some extent but someone should have dialed it the fuck down well before that Children's Crusade happened.Ok, crazy, but this was most likely due to the Islamic Age of Enlightement which lasted until the 12th-13th century. They actually were more adventurous and open during this scientific movement -to a point - likely due to impact of the Crusades and need for soldiers. I could see the Muslim transformation of Pakistan and some of India due to coffee trade routes and ports.
After the first one shit went completely off the fucking rails. I understand the whole "fuck those Seljuks for killing pilgrims" to some extent but someone should have dialed it the fuck down well before that Children's Crusade happened.
Wars predicated on religion, not even once.
An interesting thing to note is that what most people think of when they hear "castle" is not what the majority of historic castles even resembled. In part because what we consider a castle today, the fact that wooden structures have held up significantly less well over the millennia than stone ones, and that what is a "Castle" is fairly arbitrary and distinct category compared to what was considered a castle back then.A little trivia about castles
The construction and maintenance of a medieval castle would cost around 40 percent of the annual income of a king.
While the wooden structures were cheap, swift and easy-to-build, the stone structures involved having to pay for stonemasons, expensive stone, transportation, mining and a larger construction force.
Add that to the interior decoration of paintings, ornaments, and furniture, and you would be looking at one of the most prominent status symbols of luxury during that time.
Oh hell, suicide rate alone nearly matched disease and not even to Byzantium!I mean, shit went completely off the rails during the First Crusade. Hell, it went off the rails before: Just take a look at what happened when Peter the Hermit tried marching his People's Crusade to the Middle East. It's almost comical how many Christians (and how much Christian territory) was plundered, razed, and otherwise fucked up before even leaving Europe... by a Christian army.
An interesting thing to note is that what most people think of when they hear "castle" is not what the majority of historic castles even resembled. In part because what we consider a castle today, the fact that wooden structures have held up significantly less well over the millennia than stone ones, and that what is a "Castle" is fairly arbitrary and distinct category compared to what was considered a castle back then.
Of course, that's also because a castle's primary role required... a bit less than what a lot of people think they did. At least during the Middle Ages. A force of, like, a score light to medium cavalry (not even necessarily permanently stationed there: Capable of being housed there!) was a Big Fucking Deal. Both because of what the access to horses fit for combat inferred, and the fact that it doesn't take much to really fuck up attempts to scavenge / a logistical train.
Hell, even taking out the cavalry, again you did not need much. Logistics cause a lot of history to make a ton more sense, but also look a bit more boring to the average casual historian.
I remember the slayings of pilgrim caravans into the holy land being attributed to Seljuk Turk marauders. Whether I'm misremembering a literal decades-old history lesson or not I'm not sure anymore.1095 was the First Crusade, which signaled the beginning of the End of Islamic Enlightenment and the rise of Christian Theocracy and culminating in the Western Schism. So not sure how the Asian adventurism of Islam in the 8th to 10th century is totally connected with Al-Sirah Salubb and the Children's Crusade of 1212, or dissolution of the Seljuk empire in 1194. Or, since the Seljuk empire was in current Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Syria what it's immediate impact was. Can you elaborate? I would also be interested in you take on ibn Abdullah's 6th-7th century conquest and confirmation of Judaic and early Christian beliefs.
Mm yes you throw that shade you throw it hard'Fucking hostile' appears to be living up to his name. I'm not going to take his political speech seriously, because I think we're all more grown up than that.
The Seljuk Turks captured Jerusalem in the 1070s and it created the First Crusade. Essentially, this play destroyed the Byzantine and Seljuk Empires and set in motion the political and financial power of the Catholic Church, which was skeptical of Islam (Moors) and saw them as a rising competitor as Muhammed ibn Adullah's successors elevated him to Messiah over Christ, and the Rashidun Caliphate's riches. Jerusalem was set as the objective due to its importance to Christianity via Catholicism. it also was the start of centralizing power in the Church. The ramifications of these actions persist even today.I remember the slayings of pilgrim caravans into the holy land being attributed to Seljuk Turk marauders. Whether I'm misremembering a literal decades-old history lesson or not I'm not sure anymore.
Since Islam wasn't really a thing before 622 afaik and my professor went over the barest details of how that went down, the name ibn Abdullah is not doing more than ringing a faint bell. Most of the Crusades are only tied together strongly by the Catholic Church needing to find some place to dump second and third sons into early graves, and the Children's Crusade was just the crazy going up another notch because why the fuck not.
Mm yes you throw that shade you throw it hard
Mm yes you throw that shade you throw it hard
And a local Tribesmen, Chuchan:At breakfast time I was sitting by the house at Vanavara Trading Post [approximately 65 kilometres (40 mi) south of the explosion], facing north. […] I suddenly saw that directly to the north, over Onkoul's Tunguska Road, the sky split in two and fire appeared high and wide over the forest [as Semenov showed, about 50 degrees up—expedition note]. The split in the sky grew larger, and the entire northern side was covered with fire. At that moment I became so hot that I couldn't bear it as if my shirt was on fire; from the northern side, where the fire was, came strong heat. I wanted to tear off my shirt and throw it down, but then the sky shut closed, and a strong thump sounded, and I was thrown a few metres. I lost my senses for a moment, but then my wife ran out and led me to the house. After that such noise came, as if rocks were falling or cannons were firing, the Earth shook, and when I was on the ground, I pressed my head down, fearing rocks would smash it. When the sky opened up, hot wind raced between the houses, like from cannons, which left traces in the ground like pathways, and it damaged some crops. Later we saw that many windows were shattered, and in the barn, a part of the iron lock snapped.
Following WW1 and the Russian Civil War, investigations were held as to the cause. An expedition led by a Mr Kulik found one probable cause:We had a hut by the river with my brother Chekaren. We were sleeping. Suddenly we both woke up at the same time. Somebody shoved us. We heard whistling and felt strong wind. Chekaren said 'Can you hear all those birds flying overhead?' We were both in the hut, couldn't see what was going on outside. Suddenly, I got shoved again, this time so hard I fell into the fire. I got scared. Chekaren got scared too. We started crying out for father, mother, brother, but no one answered. There was noise beyond the hut, we could hear trees falling down. Chekaren and I got out of our sleeping bags and wanted to run out, but then the thunder struck. This was the first thunder. The Earth began to move and rock, the wind hit our hut and knocked it over. My body was pushed down by sticks, but my head was in the clear. Then I saw a wonder: trees were falling, the branches were on fire, it became mighty bright, how can I say this, as if there was a second sun, my eyes were hurting, I even closed them. It was like what the Russians call lightning. And immediately there was a loud thunderclap. This was the second thunder. The morning was sunny, there were no clouds, our Sun was shining brightly as usual, and suddenly there came a second one!
Chekaren and I had some difficulty getting out from under the remains of our hut. Then we saw that above, but in a different place, there was another flash, and loud thunder came. This was the third thunder strike. Wind came again, knocked us off our feet, struck the fallen trees.
We looked at the fallen trees, watched the tree tops get snapped off, watched the fires. Suddenly Chekaren yelled "Look up" and pointed with his hand. I looked there and saw another flash, and it made another thunder. But the noise was less than before. This was the fourth strike, like normal thunder.
Now I remember well there was also one more thunder strike, but it was small, and somewhere far away, where the Sun goes to sleep.
If I remember correctly those Evenki tribesmen were 15 kilometers from the hypocenter. With that kind of radius of destruction there could have been maybe millions of casualities if it had happened over some city in China or India. It's a good thing most of the Earth was (and still is) so sparsely populated.The Tunguska Incident
In the early hours of June 30th, 1908, Evenki tribesmen and Russian settlers witnessed a blinding blue light just to the northwest of Lake Baikal, following which was a rapidly-expanding cloud, and a pillar of fire shooting into the sky.
Ten minutes later, a shockwave knocked people over for miles, and shattered windows. It was detected as far away as the United States, and modern day Indonesia.
In the nights following, there was light in the skies above Eurasia.
In the words of a Mr Semenov:
And a local Tribesmen, Chuchan:
Following WW1 and the Russian Civil War, investigations were held as to the cause. An expedition led by a Mr Kulik found one probable cause:
A meteor impact. The largest in recorded history - this is still true today.
He returned six years later to search for the crater, with the aid of local tribesmen. They didn't find it - but instead an 8km wide zone deep in the forests, where trees had been stripped of their branches. As they approached the centre, they found the trees knocked radially from the centre.
Later research in the 60s determined the zone of destruction was actually shaped more like a butterfly, and occupied 2,150 km2.
Later on, it was discovered the ground was littered with silicate spheres, and iridium similar to that found at the KPG Boundary level, and it was determined to have been an airburst impact of around 30 megatons - somewhat less powerful than the Tsar Bomba, but twice as explosive as Castle Bravo, and 2000 times stronger than Hiroshima's Little Boy.
It's thought to have killed three people. If it'd had landed somewhere more populous, the 20th century would've been wildly different. Imagine WW1, for instance, if Berlin just got deleted off the map by a wayward chunk of space debris.
There was actually a similar incident a few years ago, which some of you may remember. This time the meteor was only half the size, but above the somewhat more populated Chelyabinsk. Fortunately there weren't any casualties, but there was nearly 2000 injuries.If I remember correctly those Evenki tribesmen were 15 kilometers from the hypocenter. With that kind of radius of destruction there could have been maybe millions of casualities if it had happened over some city in China or India. It's a good thing most of the Earth was (and still is) so sparsely populated.
The bright nights are an interesting thing. Apparently in Finland it became so bright that some people thought it was the end times and took shelter in cellars and saunas, or so I have heard from old people who heard the story from their own grandparents.