Metal is probably the worst music genre out of all.

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

Technical doesn't make something sound good. That's the biggest problem with it.

no, not necessarily, but you make it sound like its the easiest thing ever and anyone can do it, thats all.

Indeed, and those key elements seem to be retarded breakdowns and blastbeats. It's sad too because so many of them write a some decent riffs and drum fills only to fall back into some comfort zone so they sound extremely samey.

also, melodic leads and dual harmonies, some having catchy clean choruses. though its not really a comfort zone, its more like crowd manipulation. theres just so much more to it than a lot of people see.


im gonna be blunt here for a second. you know all the generic elements that you pointed out about metalcore? well, i can point out generic elements of everything that was on your list. though its still good music, i dont see any more talent in them than i do in what was on my list(some of yours having less the way i see it actually....sorry).

It's nice. It sounds like the intro at parts. And I really don't care for Alaska. I don't even listen to it. I have Colors and The Great Misdirect and it makes me sad to here them throw in the metalcore. I feel like they could do so much more, but it's their choice to put it in.

but thats the thing, they do so much more as well. and colors is my favorite album by them =D the decade of statues is such an amazing song.

 

[Takun]

no, not necessarily, but you make it sound like its the easiest thing ever and anyone can do it, thats all.

Playing I agree. Some of them have very techinical stops. This discussion came from me saying that the two generic parts from metalcore has ruined almost every song they are in for me. Writing a generic metalcore song takes as much talents as writing a generic song from any genre. All genres have shit that is overdone. I'm not trying to pick metalcore out on this one. The biggest problem for me is when the elements are found in every song. I'm not saying bands like BtBaM have no talent. I think they are actually very creative. It's just too bad they are the only band in the genre I've found that managed to move on and progress. Now there could be more, but even your links didn't show me any and I recognize most of the names in there.

also, melodic leads and dual harmonies, some having catchy clean choruses. though its not really a comfort zone, its more like crowd manipulation. theres just so much more to it than a lot of people see.

Also found in all metal genres and most music genres. So besides blastbeats and breakdowns what is metalcore bringing to the bigger genre of metal?

im gonna be blunt here for a second. you know all the generic elements that you pointed out about metalcore? well, i can point out generic elements of everything that was on your list. though its still good music, i dont see any more talent in them than i do in what was on my list(some of yours having less the way i see it actually....sorry).

You are more than welcome to try. I'd like to see some comments on the forerunners and most influential in their genres... save We Were Promised Jetpacks that I posted for Shindo haha. Oh man all synth pop has synths! All jangle pop has clean guitar! All trip hop has hip hop beats! I'd say Johnny Marr's skill at writing guitar riffs and hooks is just as good as any technical metal guitarist and that in his genre of choice he progressed it a great deal.

Again if you are talking raw techinical talent in an instrument, you could be very correct. I'm talking song construction, lyrics, melody, harmony, and dissonance. Metalcore seems to be composed primarily of two rhythms. The fast blast beat and the disjunctive chuggs. This again is getting into preferences. But the elements that people seem to like in it, I find are done better in the genres it takes inspiration from.

but thats the thing, they do so much more as well. and colors is my favorite album by them =D the decade of statues is such an amazing song.

I like Ants from it. I have never understood the hoedown in the album, however. Seems so out of place.

 

[Captain Howdy]

In a thread that is aimed at 'dissing' metal, there also is a heavy overdosage of -core talk here :v Though I do approve of 'dissing' -core.

 

[Takun]

In a thread that is aimed at 'dissing' metal, there also is a heavy overdosage of -core talk here :v Though I do approve of 'dissing' -core.

I can diss the dumb power metal bands with stupid themes like Pirates if you want. Alestorm is so hilariously bad.

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

Playing I agree. Some of them have very techinical stops. This discussion came from me saying that the two generic parts from metalcore has ruined almost every song they are in for me. Writing a generic metalcore song takes as much talents as writing a generic song from any genre. All genres have shit that is overdone. I'm not trying to pick metalcore out on this one. The biggest problem for me is when the elements are found in every song. I'm not saying bands like BtBaM have no talent. I think they are actually very creative. It's just too bad they are the only band in the genre I've found that managed to move on and progress. Now there could be more, but even your links didn't show me any and I recognize most of the names in there.

now were getting somewhere. it helps when you explain yourself a bit more like you did here.

Also found in all metal genres and most music genres. So besides blastbeats and breakdowns what is metalcore bringing to the bigger genre of metal?

what does any band bring to their genre? their own take on the genre, regardless of whats similar and whats unique.

Oh man all synth pop has synths! All jangle pop has clean guitar! All trip hop has hip hop beats!

no need to be a smart ass, i was making a point, thats all.

Again if you are talking raw techinical talent in an instrument, you could be very correct. I'm talking song construction, lyrics, melody, harmony, and dissonance. Metalcore seems to be composed primarily of two rhythms. The fast blast beat and the disjunctive chuggs. This again is getting into preferences. But the elements that people seem to like in it, I find are done better in the genres it takes inspiration from.

2 words, music theory. many metalcore and deathcore bands use it a lot(or at least many of the ones i listen to), separating them from the rest. you want dissonance? here ya go. those dudes use so much theory its ridiculous(especially in their solos). you could also check this one out too, no dissonance, but also no breakdowns or blast beats. song construction? most of the metalcore i listen to doesnt have the typical song structure of into verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus/outro, some do for some songs but none do it for all of them, most have irregular structure, not following any specific set pattern. lyrics? salt the wound, august burns red, as i lay dying, veil of maya, those bands(just to only name a few) have lyrics that have meaning that a lot of people can relate to, talking about life's struggles and things they have went through, expressing emotion and taking the listener to where they were(even though you cant always understand them unless you know them or are reading them while listening to the song, but thats not my point). christian metalcore bands are some of my favorite for this(though AILD and ABR are the only christian bands out of the 4 i just mentioned). harmony and melody? i was going to show you this instead of aspiration but decided not to for some odd reason. also this one too, and the lyrics are in the description. yes, theyre now known as mainstream, but thats because their uniqueness got them there. you dont have to like it, and im not trying to force you into liking it, im just trying to get you to see what you normally dont in these bands thats all. i defend what i love. plus if i showed you every song that proves my point, we would be here for a while, and you wouldnt want to listen to them all.

im not gonna pick apart your music and show you everything thats "generic" or "overdone". im better than that, i have too much respect for musicians to point out what couldve been better or more unique, they wrote it that way for a reason, its their creativity, even if some of it has been done before. true originality is an extreme rarity in the world, especially in this day and age. plus i believe that you cant truly judge a band or musician's talent if you havent heard everything they have done. this is partly why i see talent in all music.

I like Ants from it. I have never understood the hoedown in the album, however. Seems so out of place.

i love everything they have ever done, i have their discography, theyre musical geniuses in my eyes. also you might like The Human Abstract if youve never heard of them.

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

In a thread that is aimed at 'dissing' metal, there also is a heavy overdosage of -core talk here :v Though I do approve of 'dissing' -core.

i dont approve of "dissing" any music =/

kinda sad that few think this way...


also, -core music has a good deal of metal influence(hence the fact that it usually has either metal or death in front of it, referring to either metal or death metal), im a "true" metalhead, i like any music thats associated with metal in any way.

 

[Takun]

2 words, music theory. many metalcore and deathcore bands use it a lot(or at least many of the ones i listen to), separating them from the rest. you want dissonance? here ya go. those dudes use so much theory its ridiculous(especially in their solos).

I avoided using the term music theory because of how broad of a term it is. I'm currently on my second theory course in college.

you could also check this one out too, no dissonance, but also no breakdowns or blast beats.

I really didn't find this to be anything special at all. No offense meant, but just being honest.

song construction? most of the metalcore i listen to doesnt have the typical song structure of into verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus/outro, some do for some songs but none do it for all of them, most have irregular structure, not following any specific set pattern.

That's good.

lyrics? salt the wound, august burns red, as i lay dying, veil of maya, those bands(just to only name a few) have lyrics that have meaning that a lot of people can relate to, talking about life's struggles and things they have went through, expressing emotion and taking the listener to where they were(even though you cant always understand them unless you know them or are reading them while listening to the song, but thats not my point).

Can you find me some good ones? All I can find is stuff like this from As I Lay Dying.

i want to bring You all that is in my heart
i want to bring You my everything
but i've failed You so many times
how can i stand here before You

Which seems to be typical scene stuff.

christian metalcore bands are some of my favorite for this(though AILD and ABR are the only christian bands out of the 4 i just mentioned). harmony and melody? i was going to show you this instead of aspiration but decided not to for some odd reason. also this one too, and the lyrics are in the description. yes, theyre now known as mainstream, but thats because their uniqueness got them there. you dont have to like it, and im not trying to force you into liking it, im just trying to get you to see what you normally dont in these bands thats all. i defend what i love. plus if i showed you every song that proves my point, we would be here for a while, and you wouldnt want to listen to them all.

What am I supposed to be seeing that I'm not seeing in other bands> I'm not really seeing it. I mean it was fast, but yeah. After the intro in they dropped the speeding scales and then what?

im not gonna pick apart your music and show you everything thats "generic" or "overdone". im better than that, i have too much respect for musicians to point out what couldve been better or more unique, they wrote it that way for a reason, its their creativity, even if some of it has been done before. true originality is an extreme rarity in the world, especially in this day and age. plus i believe that you cant truly judge a band or musician's talent if you havent heard everything they have done. this is partly why i see talent in all music.

That's cool, they are allowed to write it how they want. It's their music. I don't have to respect or enjoy it though. I'm actually just not seeing these personal touches on the bands, I suppose. And when I do, their touches seem to be detracting from the quality. As if they are copying, but just not pulling it off.

i love everything they have ever done, i have their discography, theyre musical geniuses in my eyes. also you might like The Human Abstract if youve never heard of them.

I have heard them. I don't remember it making enough impact for me to listen multiple times though.

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

I avoided using the term music theory because of how broad of a term it is. I'm currently on my second theory course in college.

so im sure you were able to see quite a bit of theory from Bahamut. if not, then im baffled and question your instructors knowledge of the subject, no offense to you or him/her. Bahamut's lead guitarist has over 5 years of college music theory classes under his belt, and uses a lot of that knowledge in his song writing.

I really didn't find this to be anything special at all. No offense meant, but just being honest.

that was just me showing you that not all of the bands have breakdowns and blast beats in every song, thats all.

Can you find me some good ones? All I can find is stuff like this from As I Lay Dying.

i want to bring You all that is in my heart
i want to bring You my everything
but i've failed You so many times
how can i stand here before You

Which seems to be typical scene stuff.

he was actually talking about god in that song, hence the capitalized "You"(though im sure you were able to figure that out on your own ;p). though i dont like the christian religion, their lyrics can be taken out of context and used towards other things, something i like a lot.

"Pull it together.
Button up your shirt.
Roll down those sleeves.
Don't let them see how you've coped.
More and more your demeanor looks like quicksand."


"The fear is what shelters them.
It's what shades their eyes and muffles their ears.
Keep them inside.
Lock them up in a closet known as home.
In here no one can find them.
In here no one can fill them with filth."


"Convictions to the back burner.
Remembering what's really important isn't so important after all.
Gather all your possessions, and smile because you've got it all."


"When I'm awake and dreaming.
When life has lost all meaning.
When My nerves continue to stop feeling.
My only comfort are these gloves.
I thought I was so smart.
I thought that I was getting ahead.
Well it turns out.
I had yet to start."


"You've got to let go of the ones you truly love.
And if they come back, then you know they're yours.
So let this be a lesson that distance is no home wrecker.
If we can survive this, then anything is possible.
And I will stick with the ones who are by my side.
I have always had their back, and I know they'll have mine.
We've been through thick and thin. The worst of times."


"It's torn away when I try to hold on
I grab the end of my senses, dragging them to reality
And as I see who I am now this is the path to being free
This is the last time I will struggle
The eyes of a million follow each step I take walking further into hell
The weak and willing wither under the weight of their own restraint
We hold an ideal of the way it's supposed to be
Seemingly perfect like a grid composed of dots
Following step by step in each of our lives
Eyes always following and watching speaking tongues unknown
Following step by step I go"

call me "emo" or whatever, but these are some lyrics that speak to me(these obviously arent full sets of lyrics, just sections). true, there is no rhyme scheme, but you dont need to rhyme to express a feeling, but im sure you know that already.

What am I supposed to be seeing that I'm not seeing in other bands> I'm not really seeing it. I mean it was fast, but yeah. After the intro in they dropped the speeding scales and then what?

you wanted melody and harmony so i gave it to you. also, every song on that album by winds of plague has a completely different structure and feel to it. same goes for that after the burial album.

That's cool, they are allowed to write it how they want. It's their music. I don't have to respect or enjoy it though. I'm actually just not seeing these personal touches on the bands, I suppose. And when I do, their touches seem to be detracting from the quality. As if they are copying, but just not pulling it off.

you dont have to enjoy it, but i believe a true musician has respect for other musicians regardless of the style they play. but hey, what do i know, i play metalcore ;p(sorry, i just had to be a smart ass there)

I have heard them. I don't remember it making enough impact for me to listen multiple times though.

maybe you just havent heard a song that appeals to you? theyre definitely up there with BTBAM as far as musical and technical talent goes.

 

[LotsOfNothing]

Metal is both loud and stupid. I'll have nothing to do with that filth.

 

[Hir]

I'll have nothing to do with that filth.

But your name is LotsOfNothing! D:

 

[Takun]

so im sure you were able to see quite a bit of theory from Bahamut. if not, then im baffled and question your instructors knowledge of the subject, no offense to you or him/her. Bahamut's lead guitarist has over 5 years of college music theory classes under his belt, and uses a lot of that knowledge in his song writing.

Don't know who that is.

that was just me showing you that not all of the bands have breakdowns and blast beats in every song, thats all.

Okay.

he was actually talking about god in that song, hence the capitalized "You"(though im sure you were able to figure that out on your own ;p). though i dont like the christian religion, their lyrics can be taken out of context and used towards other things, something i like a lot.

I actually didn't, because of the random not capitalizing of "I" in on page. I just figured the person was not capitalizing and capitalizing all random.

"Pull it together.
Button up your shirt.
Roll down those sleeves.
Don't let them see how you've coped.
More and more your demeanor looks like quicksand."


"The fear is what shelters them.
It's what shades their eyes and muffles their ears.
Keep them inside.
Lock them up in a closet known as home.
In here no one can find them.
In here no one can fill them with filth."


"Convictions to the back burner.
Remembering what's really important isn't so important after all.
Gather all your possessions, and smile because you've got it all."


"When I'm awake and dreaming.
When life has lost all meaning.
When My nerves continue to stop feeling.
My only comfort are these gloves.
I thought I was so smart.
I thought that I was getting ahead.
Well it turns out.
I had yet to start."


"You've got to let go of the ones you truly love.
And if they come back, then you know they're yours.
So let this be a lesson that distance is no home wrecker.
If we can survive this, then anything is possible.
And I will stick with the ones who are by my side.
I have always had their back, and I know they'll have mine.
We've been through thick and thin. The worst of times."


"It's torn away when I try to hold on
I grab the end of my senses, dragging them to reality
And as I see who I am now this is the path to being free
This is the last time I will struggle
The eyes of a million follow each step I take walking further into hell
The weak and willing wither under the weight of their own restraint
We hold an ideal of the way it's supposed to be
Seemingly perfect like a grid composed of dots
Following step by step in each of our lives
Eyes always following and watching speaking tongues unknown
Following step by step I go"

call me "emo" or whatever, but these are some lyrics that speak to me(these obviously arent full sets of lyrics, just sections). true, there is no rhyme scheme, but you dont need to rhyme to express a feeling, but im sure you know that already.

I really can't judge. Yes it is kinda scene, but there aren't a lot of topics covered in music anyway.

you wanted melody and harmony so i gave it to you. also, every song on that album by winds of plague has a completely different structure and feel to it. same goes for that after the burial album.

Okay.

you dont have to enjoy it, but i believe a true musician has respect for other musicians regardless of the style they play. but hey, what do i know, i play metalcore ;p(sorry, i just had to be a smart ass there)

Oh no I can respect their skill, if they are good. It's the material. Whatever they create. I can think "He plays a good guitar" doesn't mean I'm going to be raving about his creation or even thinking it's any good.

maybe you just havent heard a song that appeals to you? theyre definitely up there with BTBAM as far as musical and technical talent goes.

I had the last two albums. I really can't recall anything though. Not sure why.

 

[Captain Howdy]

also, -core music has a good deal of metal influence(hence the fact that it usually has either metal or death in front of it, referring to either metal or death metal), im a "true" metalhead, i like any music thats associated with metal in any way.

Yeah, but no a lot of bands have other influences in their music, much of metal has jazz influences (especially some of the drummers), but you don't hear jazz coming out do you

As for "true" metalhead, I haven't clicked every link so far, but what I have clicked, has been -core bands. So that sorta makes you metro/scenester. :v

Listening to "associated" bands has nothing to do with it :B

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

Don't know who that is.

i linked you to their myspace, you must have missed the link. it was the link right next to "you want dissonance?" and the link read "here ya go" but here it is again.
check them out if you want, if not, thats cool too.

I actually didn't, because of the random not capitalizing of "I" in on page. I just figured the person was not capitalizing and capitalizing all random.

ahhh ok. yea, they never really directly refer to god. its mainly just implied and can be taken out of context and used in other situations. i think he actually meant for the lyrics to have multiple meanings. their vocalist actually writes all the music too, the others just play it.

I really can't judge. Yes it is kinda scene, but there aren't a lot of topics covered in music anyway.

metalcore lyrics mainly cover human emotions, loss, struggle, politics, determination, stuff like that. though there are bands that have more fictional lyrics, some getting pretty gorey, others a bit more subtle. heres an excerpt from an after the burial song called "cursing akhenaten" to give an example:

"Awaken ruinous fiend of early generations.
Your rotting corpse is restored.
Straighten your limbs brush off the dust
Withered bandages restrain you no more.
Severed heads accent the gates bones emerge from the sands.
Proof of your reign remains.
I your liege now command your rule again."

though theres no real meaning behind it, i still think theyre great lyrics, but hey thats me. plus the melody has a very egyptian feel to it, which matches the lyrics, which i think is pretty damn cool.

Oh no I can respect their skill, if they are good. It's the material. Whatever they create. I can think "He plays a good guitar" doesn't mean I'm going to be raving about his creation or even thinking it's any good.

well thats at least better than having no respect at all.

I had the last two albums. I really can't recall anything though. Not sure why.

have you heard BTBAM's cover album, 'the anatomy of'?

and heres a great song by the human abstract http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN5LP4boqps
though you really have to hear the entire album, so much versatility, so much talent. its truly epic.

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

Yeah, but no a lot of bands have other influences in their music, much of metal has jazz influences (especially some of the drummers), but you don't hear jazz coming out do you

As for "true" metalhead, I haven't clicked every link so far, but what I have clicked, has been -core bands. So that sorta makes you metro/scenester. :v

Listening to "associated" bands has nothing to do with it :B

cool story, way to be an elitist bro.

also, one of my favorite metal songs of all time
not to mention alexi laiho is a big influence to me.
along with michael angelo batio, randy rhoads, and steve vai.

 

[Aden]

>Defending metal
>Links to -core bands and CoB

facepalm.jpg

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

>Defending metal
>Links to -core bands and CoB

facepalm.jpg

whats wrong with CoB?
not "metal enough"?

 

[Captain Howdy]

cool story, way to be an elitist bro.

also, one of my favorite metal songs of all time
not to mention alexi laiho is a big influence to me.
along with michael angelo batio, randy rhoads, and steve vai.

One of your favourite metal songs of all time is from one of the poppiest black metal bands of all time :B no joke. CoB? Kids that listen to CoB, also listen to SlipKnot, Korn, and a bunch of other 'br00tal' bands. xD It's hilarious. With their hair like some emo dude, thinking they are a badass because they listen to a band that is technically not -core or screamo. (no offense to your avatar :v)

Don't worry though, you're still a cool scenester in my book.

 

[Endless Humiliation]

i just wanted to say that i stopped finding dep interesting after dimitri left

irony is a dead scene is okay

 

[Aden]

whats wrong with CoB?
not "metal enough"?

It's perfectly within the realm of metal, but it just has very few merits aside from being a vessel for some shiny guitar solos. I don't think it's BAD, but it's not going to convince anyone who dislikes metal.

i just wanted to say that i stopped finding dep interesting after dimitri left

irony is a dead scene is okay

Aw come on, there were some prime moments on Miss Machine. Ire Works could have been a lot better though.

 

[Endless Humiliation]

trip hop is a dumb name

if you said that to my face youd get a cold shoulder

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

It's perfectly within the realm of metal, but it just has very few merits aside from being a vessel for some shiny guitar solos. I don't think it's BAD, but it's not going to convince anyone who dislikes metal.

personally, i love CoB, and i wasnt really posting that link to defend metal, it was more to defend myself saying that i dont listen to only -core music.

edit: also, the core links were about something completely different, not sure if youve been following this thread the whole time or not.

 

[Endless Humiliation]

Aw come on, there were some prime moments on Miss Machine. Ire Works could have been a lot better though.

I don't really like Greg's voice and I didn't listen to Ire Works


But that's cool that he pooped in a bag at Reading


Maybe if he pooped on the whole audience I might listen to Ire Works

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

One of your favourite metal songs of all time is from one of the poppiest black metal bands of all time :B no joke. CoB? Kids that listen to CoB, also listen to SlipKnot, Korn, and a bunch of other 'br00tal' bands. xD It's hilarious. With their hair like some emo dude, thinking they are a badass because they listen to a band that is technically not -core or screamo. (no offense to your avatar :v)

Don't worry though, you're still a cool scenester in my book.

i really dont see what the problem with them is, i think theyre extremely talented and i really dont care what other fans of the music listen to, thats them not me. i like everything, including country and rap(both modern mainstream and old school). metal(and all of its fusion genres and subgenres) is just my favorite, which is why i consider myself a "true" metalhead. i dont discriminate or listen to only whats "real" metal, i dont consider people like that to be "true" metalheads.



and thanks...i think.

 

[Takun]

i linked you to their myspace, you must have missed the link. it was the link right next to "you want dissonance?" and the link read "here ya go" but here it is again.
check them out if you want, if not, thats cool too.

Yeah I didn't find that good at all. I mean it's frantic and everything, but it was just eh.

have you heard BTBAM's cover album, 'the anatomy of'?

and heres a great song by the human abstract http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN5LP4boqps
though you really have to hear the entire album, so much versatility, so much talent. its truly epic.

I had not. That song definitely had moments to it though. If it was more like the intro I would have liked it much more. I don't know why they had the verses. It would be so better without the verses. I'd actually listen to it was all instrumental and the verses were cut.

 

[Shred Uhh Sore Us]

Yeah I didn't find that good at all. I mean it's frantic and everything, but it was just eh.

i was referring to the use of theory in their music, especially dissonance.
it made more sense in the post i originally mentioned them in.

I had not. That song definitely had moments to it though. If it was more like the intro I would have liked it much more. I don't know why they had the verses. It would be so better without the verses. I'd actually listen to it was all instrumental and the verses were cut.

you mean like this?
check out some of their other tunes, they have quite a bit of variety, you very well may find a song that you really like.