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obligatory pride month thread (for 2021)

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
I’m increasingly starting to think that the main benefit of Pride, and parades, isn’t to show cishet people that queer people are just like them (though we can be). It’s one function of the parades, yes, but as acceptance increases it becomes more and more marginal.

The benefit is to queer people. It’s in showing other queer people that they’re not alone. Not just in an abstract “there’s others out there” or “x people in 100 are queer” sort of way, but in a “here’s a crowd of us” way. It’s in offering a place for closeted or mostly-closeted queer people to at least come close to queer culture - even if they don’t feel comfortable or safe marching as “allies” (plausible deniability ahoy!), standing and watching the parade can be a powerful thing in its own way, I imagine.

I’m not trying to minimize the anniversary of Stonewall aspect, which in itself can be powerful. Should the US stop celebrating Independence Day because being independent from the UK should be a normal thing by now (being that practically all former British colonies are now independent of British rule, FAIK)? Stonewall is tricky in that it’s not taught; I only learned about it in, I believe, my 30s. I’m not American, Independence Day has zero relevance to me, and yet I learned about it approximately ten years before I learned of the Stonewall riots.
 

Rimna

Well-Known Monkey
I obviously disagree. It's important to consider the general population is almost exclusively heterosexual, and so we ought to expect almost exclusively heterosexual ideas, concepts, and content. The average person will grow up with a heterosexual mind and will experience things through this lens, hence why most media will be targeted towards the general standard for the general population. Same reason why we don't see a lot of representation of people in wheelchairs.

Eh, it may be cherry-picking but you said it anyway, so I might as well.

In my country, which is notorious for its hostility towards LGBTQ, we have - thankfully - plenty of accommodation of people in wheelchairs. They have special parking spaces reserved for them, special accommodations in all administrative, banking, hospitals and government buildings - ramps, elevators, people who cater for them. In bigger cities, buses have special platforms for people in wheelchairs. They also get financial aid from the state.

On the other hand, LGBTQ people get... thrown rocks at, and the occasional parade and protest to defend them - not very successfully either.

So I don't see how the two are comparable. Especially given that one is a sexuality, the other is a physical impairment.

As far as I'm concerned, pride month is okay.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Happy Pride Month to everyone on the LGBTQ+ spectrum! Never let it be put into doubt that you’re valid, stay safe, and take pride in who you are.

Also, because I can see the trainwreck has already begun: @Dragoneer @luffy @Flamingo @Chase can we get some official intervention putting the foot down that arguments that LGBTQ+ people need to be less loud, that Pride Month is unnecessary, that it’s explicitly because of things like Pride Month that incidents keep happening, and so on are not to be tolerated in the LGBTQ+ Pride Month thread and that those trying by to posit such actively are treated as purposefully and knowingly trying to cause shit? Allowing this thread to, y’know, avoid the drama that happened the last dozen LGBTQ+ threads and actually enjoy the month?
 

Flamingo

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
If Dragoneer or Chase want to make special discussion rules, all the more power to them. Not my lane. I can only encourage people to be decent human beings and then clean up the inevitable train wreck when everyone devolves the thread into a WWE match. :)

Otherwise, Happy Pride Month!
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Don't feel obliged, nobody should be pressured into caring about identitarian celebrations
 

Tendo64

Cat With A Guitar
Don't feel obliged, nobody should be pressured into caring about identitarian celebrations
Oh, I was more than happy and willing to make this thread. Because I care about them.
 

Tendo64

Cat With A Guitar

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
As much as I want to agree with the “shoving it down our throats” argument, it’s just not really a valid one. Heterosexuality has historically, and still is, shoved down people’s throats. From heteronormative laws, entertainment, language, and practices to straight up homophobia and pressure put on both children and adults to conform to heterosexual standards while being shielded from LGBT+. Companies throwing up a rainbow icon and changing up some branding isn’t shoving it down your throat. This is an argument frequently used to shut progress down and make it over-complicated. If you don’t like seeing it, don’t look at it.

Do I think it’s genuine? Hell no. I do not think that any of these companies give a damn about the LGBT+ community. However, it still serves to help normalize seeing LGBT+ people/history and that is a good thing. The more mainstream it becomes, the less stigma will surround it. I see no reason, though, to claim it’s being “forced on us” or “shoved down our throats” as I don’t see anyone being harmed for being heterosexual during this month - unlike how LGBT+ individuals are every day in countries all around the world.
Let me phrase this a different way - we have any entire month in our honor, but insist we're nothing special. On that same token, we demand more representation in pop culture, but if the character is at all "bad" we hate the creators... but we're nothing special. We demand wholesale changes in law, in teaching, in accommodations, beyond being allowed to exist... but we're nothing special.

Before we can see true acceptance, we have to unfortunately give up quite a bit. We can't have pride parades, as there are no serious straight parades (only large scale trollbait). Two pop culture figures enter a straight relationship, no one bats an eye. We'd have to give up the endless parade of articles whenever someone comes out as LGBT. Gay character appears on TV and conforms to some stereotypes? Have you ever looked at straight characters critically? Let's take Neil PH's character from How I Met Your Mother. Make him gay and a horndog for all men and he'd be hated by the community. But there are straight people who see him as a goal, and generally folks see him as he's supposed to be a creep, but no one wants him cancelled. We have to take bad representations as well as good.

Because in the end, the only difference between total acceptance and tacit tolerance is someone isn't lying when they say don't care. At some point, you have to acknowledge that people aren't going to make a big deal over LGBT stuff not because they're ignoring it, but because there's nothing to make a big deal over. And pride month gets in the way of that, because we're making a big deal over something we insist doesn't matter.

That being said, I A.) Don't have an alternative and B.) It's still a valuable time to a lot of people who need support so I don't think we're at a time we can cancel it. It's just at some point we'll either have to, or just endorse as much commercialization as we can to the point where it's original meaning is long gone... like Christmas.
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
The FAF does not surprise often. I guess I have to say it, but I'd like a few certain people to slow down and control emotions a bit before getting carried away with anything. There are no fights breaking out, no foul-spiritedness to be had, at least not on my part. And of course, remember what parts of my posts are being responded to and what parts aren't, and remember who is getting all the flak and all the disagreements. Don't act like I'm the bad guy for respectfully giving my opinion on a subject that relates to me just as much as it does to the rest. Pinging mods and subtle callouts against the guy being dogpiled isn't really making much help for anyone. No one has to agree with me but there is no reason to have a whole deal out of it. This is a public forum where people are supposed to comment and give their own opinions and ideas.

Allow me to reiterate my point again. I want sexuality to be much more accepted and for it to matter way less to people so that it will be. Making a big huge deal out of how special we all are is only going to make it that much more difficult for sexuality to ever be seen as something simple and innocuous. I want sexuality to be as unimportant as eye colour to at the very least most people, and I feel these month-long spectacles and excessive over-representation is doing very much the opposite.

Excuse me for caring about actual issues and their practical solutions.

Eh, it may be cherry-picking but you said it anyway, so I might as well.

In my country, which is notorious for its hostility towards LGBTQ, we have - thankfully - plenty of accommodation of people in wheelchairs. They have special parking spaces reserved for them, special accommodations in all administrative, banking, hospitals and government buildings - ramps, elevators, people who cater for them. In bigger cities, buses have special platforms for people in wheelchairs. They also get financial aid from the state.

On the other hand, LGBTQ people get... thrown rocks at, and the occasional parade and protest to defend them - not very successfully either.

So I don't see how the two are comparable. Especially given that one is a sexuality, the other is a physical impairment.

As far as I'm concerned, pride month is okay.
This is a false argument, in the sense that this isn't my point. It's not about the accommodation, it's about the representation, as I said. Are there many characters in wheelchairs in the media? Are they the subjects used in unrelated advertisements? Children's books about them very common?

They're not. In the West society treats LGBT much better but "pride month" is only a symptom of that, not a cause or contributor. As you said, it doesn't go so well in certain countries.
 
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Mambi

Fun loving kitty cat
I personally rather dislike the concept of a "pride month" and of the whole thing in general, but I hope people enjoy it anyway.

However I will say I think it's important for people to remember that corporations very much like to commodify this and that it doesn't mean they have anyone's best interests at heart no matter what they might say. Be careful and safe as always, and don't just trust in anyone or anything that claims to be "on your side."

A person or collective is not automatically "good" just because they very publicly support a now very commonly accepted thing.

I personally will be happy when everyone is so accepted in mainstream life we won't need a pride month anymore, since nobody will care if you're gay/trans/whatever!
 

Fcomega121

Friendly Maned Wolf + Phoenix
I personally will be happy when everyone is so accepted in mainstream life we won't need a pride month anymore, since nobody will care if you're gay/trans/whatever!
Awww
I wish for that day!!

*Hugs you ponyly and happily*
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
I feel like people’s need to loudly proclaim in a Pride Month thread - day 2 - about how Pride Month is a symptom of a Problem, toss “What About”isms, wring hands over “Identitarian” agendas (???), call LGBTQ+ a protected class (and explicitly in a distinct way from the legal - benign - use of the term), and so-on... over a page after the OP politely requested that people not bog the thread down with such things, and @Flamingo explicitly gave the thread / its subject their endorsement (said it’d be well with site Administration’s right to implement rules dictating higher conduct of deemed necessary, no less)...

Shows exactly why Pride Month is necessary, why threads like this are necessary, etcetera. So to my peers on the LGBTQ+ spectrum (superiors, no less: As a white male from a predominantly Christian family who is quiet offline about their Ace status, I have to go through far less shit on a day-to-day basis than many of you have toughed out for years)? Keeping making people mad about your existence and refusal to simply shut up and “take a joke”.
 

JuniperW

Birb Fanatic
You know, I wish more people would have the 'live and let live' attitude when it comes to pride month.
Even when I considered myself LGBT, I never really felt like I wanted to participate in pride parades and that kind of thing. However, I think it's important to recognise that we all have different experiences with sexuality and gender. It's a very, very complex issue. In the end, there isn't anything wrong with just being who you are, and I feel like all the discourse that props up every June makes some of us forget about that.
Now I'm not saying that there can't be any such discourse — after all, it's inevitable — but sometimes, it really does get out of hand.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
EDIT: Apologies to @Tendo64 for leaning into some of the discourse, here. I don’t know where the happy medium is in terms of articulating my thoughts on the meaningfulness and broader meaning of Pride. I can try to tone it down further if you’d prefer, because I don’t want to make you uncomfortable in your own thread.

We demand wholesale changes in law, in teaching, in accommodations, beyond being allowed to exist... but we're nothing special.
Law to ensure the equal treatment and rights of queer people, yes. Should we not ask for the right to do what non-queer people can do without anyone batting an eye? Should we not ask that sex ed cover our sexuality (including asexuality, mind) as well as that of straight people? Should we not ask to be able to have the access to services that non-queer people take for granted?

Acting like these are asking society to make some great sacrifice is, frankly, queerphobic and seriously unbecoming. (Note: I’m calling the argument queerphobic, not necessarily you for making it.)

Like, a lot of the things left for the queer community to fight for don’t directly impact me, as I can easily pass as both straight and cis. But that doesn’t mean that all the battles that need to be won have been.

I used to think similarly to how you’re reasoning, that Pride was just stirring up dust that had already settled, and provoking reactions that wouldn’t otherwise exist. But with time I’ve seen both the advancements made, and how far we still have to go. Experience has taught me both moderation (how/when to pick my battles, though I won’t claim to be perfect on that score), and that society, the queer community included, still see sexuality and gender identity as reasons to punch down.

Pride is about the opposite of shame. It’s about being able to stand up straight (no pun intended) and be proud of who you are. It’s not about boasting, not about the opposite of humility. You can be humble and still not feel shame (or shamed) for who you are.
 
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Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Also - and I apologize to @Tendo64 for even tangentially dragging the shouting at clouds out - it’s worth keeping in mind that two of the big points of Pride Month are:
1) Joy in one’s self and identity. Hot on the heels of a bunch of Mental Health Awareness Month, people shouldn’t be surprised to learn LGBTQA+ individuals disproportionately suffer from depression and whatnot. Having time wherein one can be open, is actively validated in their identity, are told “You are welcome / Not broken or wrong”, and so-on is... well, joyous in multiple senses.
2) Visibility and Solidarity. Not just from outside the community, but inside as well. It’s a month for establishing connections with your peers. For being open about who you are. For showing that you are not alone. And again, but in reverse now, it’s not just for you. You think it’s fun to bully LGBTQA+ individuals? Make that “joke” to the face of the Fire Chief, I’m sure they’ll love it. Look at the size of your posse, then run some quick mental math on theirs. See some familiar - respected - faces in the crowd? Have fun knowing that and the thoughts it’ll make you hopefully have after.

Be loud. Be proud. Don’t let anyone give you shit. And make them aware that if they do, they are not picking on some lone and weak target but part of a community that looks out for its own.
 

TrishaCat

The Cat in the FAF
Happy pride month!!!!
This is the first pride where I feel fully confident and happy with myself, I'm excited to celebrate with everyone!!
Being more open about my bisexuality and transitioning both have done wonders for me. Plus, I've met so many wonderful people in the LGBT community, many friends who are really important to me that I'll remember for the rest of my life <3
 

Kuroserama

Just a fox.
Pride moth recognizes the difference
Pride Moth.PNG


Googling "Pride Moth" was quite the treat as there are a lot of great designs.

Happy Pride Month to those who celebrate it! I see both sides to the discussion here and it's been interesting to read so many different views. While I have my own personal conflicts regarding how I view myself, I am straight and cannot begin to fathom what many of you have gone through and continue to go through. Keep strong, all!
 

Fcomega121

Friendly Maned Wolf + Phoenix
Happy pride month!!!!
This is the first pride where I feel fully confident and happy with myself, I'm excited to celebrate with everyone!!
Being more open about my bisexuality and transitioning both have done wonders for me. Plus, I've met so many wonderful people in the LGBT community, many friends who are really important to me that I'll remember for the rest of my life <3
Aww I'm glad! <3

This is my first pride month where I feel fully supported!

My pvp friends here and on discord have made me feel confident and comfortable with myself

I'm happily a genderfluid abrosexual person! Can't wait to get started to join this month with you all wonder lgbt peeps uwu
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
I'm happily a genderfluid abrosexual person! Can't wait to get started to join this month with you all wonder lgbt peeps uwu
I’m not sure I’ve heard the term “abrosexual” before. If you’re comfortable doing so, would you mind educating me? (I’m specifically asking rather than trying to Google because I know how personal sexuality can be, and what it means to you is every bit as important as a generic definition. If you’re not comfortable answering, it’s genuinely no skin off my back.)
 

Fcomega121

Friendly Maned Wolf + Phoenix
I’m not sure I’ve heard the term “abrosexual” before. If you’re comfortable doing so, would you mind educating me? (I’m specifically asking rather than trying to Google because I know how personal sexuality can be, and what it means to you is every bit as important as a generic definition. If you’re not comfortable answering, it’s genuinely no skin off my back.)
Of course dear don't worry!

Abrosexual means that my sexuality moves around just like genderfluid but for Attraction!

You could say it is like a "Fluidsexuality"

For me both are separated from each other! And also from my romantic and platonic attractions! (Ficto/Panromantic and Polyplatonic)

But for some people, when they bond together, fluxing at the same time then they call it as Novosexuality :3
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Of course dear don't worry!

Abrosexual means that my sexuality moves around just like genderfluid but for Attraction!

You could say it is like a "Fluidsexuality"

For me both are separated from each other! And also from my romantic and platonic attractions! (Ficto/Panromantic and Polyplatonic)

But for some people, when they bond together, fluxing at the same time then they call it as Novosexuality :3
That’s really interesting to hear about! I hadn’t encountered that before, but it makes sense. In a way I believe that everyone probably has a little bit of fluctuation in their sexuality both over time and from day to day, but it sounds like that’s much more pronounced in/to you.

Relating to my personal experience, I know I (bi) can feel more or less attraction to fem/masc/androgyne-presenting people at different times. A bit of wobble on the Kinsey scale needle, if you will.
 

Fcomega121

Friendly Maned Wolf + Phoenix
That’s really interesting to hear about! I hadn’t encountered that before, but it makes sense. In a way I believe that everyone probably has a little bit of fluctuation in their sexuality both over time and from day to day, but it sounds like that’s much more pronounced in/to you.
Hehe I agree with you, I believe in relativity variants and degrees for everyone

But indeed hehe for me it's super pronounced! Yesterday I was fully lesbian, the whole month I was (any)+bisexual with male leaning but today I'm a bigendered and partially-ace-bisexual :3

Relating to my personal experience, I know I (bi) can feel more or less attraction to fem/masc/androgyne-presenting people at different times. A bit of wobble on the Kinsey scale needle, if you will.
Ooh interesting!!
I didn't knew about the kinsey scale!

Sounds lovely actually hehe :3
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Happy Pride Month. I hope everyone celebrating is safe well during this month and beyond.
 
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