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Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 10/13/07

blotch

Member
Hullo!
Well, as the subject suggests, I'm happy to offer redlines if I can on any artwork/sketches someone is having trouble with.
Feel free to drop a reply if you'd like, and I'll try to get back soon as I can.

Also have these threads up for Tutorials/Help:
Sketching Tutorial: Breaking out the Box
http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5592

Gesture Drawing:
http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5592

Painting Progress Scans:
http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5483

EDIT: Resurrecting this Thread, as of 10/13/07! (in the good fashion of zombies and such so close to Halloween.)
If you have anything you'd like help with, please feel free to drop a reply here!

Cheers,
-Blotch
( FA : http://www.furaffinity.net/user/blotch )
 
RE: Offering Redlines

oh i love recieving redlines (and using them to help others).

I may have to poke ya some time. ^_^

Does the offer only stand here or can i send you a PM anytime? :)
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

You can drop me a note or just reply to this thread anytime :]

Ultraviolet said:
oh i love recieving redlines (and using them to help others).

I may have to poke ya some time. ^_^

Does the offer only stand here or can i send you a PM anytime? :)
 

Itreyu

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

Sweet, definetley gonna take this off up =)

Honestly I have NO clue where to start to add a muzzle. I figured by adding eyes maybe I could see something better. Could ya give me a few hints? Im going for a wolf.
 

Anubis

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
Hullo!
Well, as the subject suggests, I'm happy to offer redlines if I can on any artwork/sketches someone is having trouble with.
Feel free to drop a reply if you'd like, and I'll try to get back soon as I can.

Cheers,
-Blotch
( FA : http://www.furaffinity.net/user/blotch )


well, first of all, thanks for your offering, i been studing artistic anatomy for a while, my anatomy has improved since then as well, but now, i been looking to get comments from artist with lots of experience in the field, because well, im new to all the "anatomy" stuff

i been trying to speak with another artist, sending notes and pm's but no luck so far, they seem too busy or not interesed in share experiences/comments with rookies, so well, is good to see someone in the major league is interesed to share some of his knowledge with the ones not so skilled

anyway, the pic im putting here is my most recent draw

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1yx8.jpg

thanks again for your time :>
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

Hey there!

The muzzle on canines tends to begin at roughly midpoint in the eye. I attached a little something to demonstrate it.

Photos lifted off the interwebs some many long years ago.

Hope it's helpful in placing the muzzle!

Cheers,
-Blotch

Itreyu said:
Sweet, definetley gonna take this off up =)

Honestly I have NO clue where to start to add a muzzle. I figured by adding eyes maybe I could see something better. Could ya give me a few hints? Im going for a wolf.
 

SpiritCreations

Wanted Dead or Alive
RE: Offering Redlines

That muzzle bit was helpful! Do you have any tips on how to start the drawing of torsos Blotch? I always have so much trouble drawing torsos... nevermind sticking on the arms and legs correctly and making it look good. I'd appreciate any tips. :)
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

Anubis said:
i been trying to speak with another artist, sending notes and pm's but no luck so far, they seem too busy or not interesed in share experiences/comments with rookies, so well, is good to see someone in the major league is interesed to share some of his knowledge with the ones not so skilled

anyway, the pic im putting here is my most recent draw

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1yx8.jpg

thanks again for your time :>

*laughs* I don't know If I'm really "major league," but I appreciate the compliment!
Your drawing shows you've put some effort into looking at anatomy. The only thing that looks distinctly missing is an indication of the hips.
I sketched in a couple lines to help you gain a little more "solid" feel for the body. I hope its helpful :)

Overall, my advice is to keep looking at reference, and try drawing "shaded" studies of anatomy from photographs for a better feel of muscle weight.

It's a great start, and this particular piece has a nice line which draws the viewer's eye to the center. I like it!

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

Anubis

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
*laughs* I don't know If I'm really "major league," but I appreciate the compliment!
Your drawing shows you've put some effort into looking at anatomy. The only thing that looks distinctly missing is an indication of the hips.
I sketched in a couple lines to help you gain a little more "solid" feel for the body. I hope its helpful :)

Overall, my advice is to keep looking at reference, and try drawing "shaded" studies of anatomy from photographs for a better feel of muscle weight.

It's a great start, and this particular piece has a nice line which draws the viewer's eye to the center. I like it!

Cheers,
-Blotch

thank you a lot for your words :>

im totally agree with you, i need more referances, specially the wolf's head, and about the muscles, yes, i need to look for RL pictures of people with tonned body and similars, and im glad that you liked the picture :) i really appreciate this, these tips are totally priceless!

thanks again spotty cat!
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

SpiritCreations said:
That muzzle bit was helpful! Do you have any tips on how to start the drawing of torsos Blotch? I always have so much trouble drawing torsos... nevermind sticking on the arms and legs correctly and making it look good. I'd appreciate any tips. :)

Well.. I've attached a handy (probably not very useful ;] ) dealy on how I draw torsos. I start by scribbling manically until I get the right weight/shape/feel of the body. Torsos are basically ( in my head) three blobs. (Chest, midsection, and hips)

Next, I refine it, pick out the pectoral muscles, bottom of the ribs, collar bones, hips, etc.

Then, well, I do it all over again finding the shape of the limbs, then refine, then refine more, etc etc.

Really, I think the important thing to stress when drawing anything is-- Don't be afraid of lines! Draw as many as it takes to find the right ones that carry the weight.

I've never been a big fan of building bodies out of cubes, tubes and spheres.
There aren't any geometric shapes in these gesture drawings, by Rebecca Alzofon:
http://www.art.net/~rebecca/PenInk.html
But she captures the form and motion of the subject.

Cheers,
-Bloch
 

SpiritCreations

Wanted Dead or Alive
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
SpiritCreations said:
That muzzle bit was helpful! Do you have any tips on how to start the drawing of torsos Blotch? I always have so much trouble drawing torsos... nevermind sticking on the arms and legs correctly and making it look good. I'd appreciate any tips. :)

Well.. I've attached a handy (probably not very useful ;] ) dealy on how I draw torsos. I start by scribbling manically until I get the right weight/shape/feel of the body. Torsos are basically ( in my head) three blobs. (Chest, midsection, and hips)

Next, I refine it, pick out the pectoral muscles, bottom of the ribs, collar bones, hips, etc.

Then, well, I do it all over again finding the shape of the limbs, then refine, then refine more, etc etc.

Really, I think the important thing to stress when drawing anything is-- Don't be afraid of lines! Draw as many as it takes to find the right ones that carry the weight.

I've never been a big fan of building bodies out of cubes, tubes and spheres.
There aren't any geometric shapes in these gesture drawings, by Rebecca Alzofon:
http://www.art.net/~rebecca/PenInk.html
But she captures the form and motion of the subject.

Cheers,
-Bloch

That does help me out a lot! :D Seeing the different lines you use gives me keys on what I can do to improve. I'm going to try some gesture drawing in my sketchbook and see if I like that better than blocks and cylinders which I normally use.

Thank you so much for all of the help you are giving everyone! :)
 

Itreyu

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
Hey there!

The muzzle on canines tends to begin at roughly midpoint in the eye. I attached a little something to demonstrate it.

Photos lifted off the interwebs some many long years ago.

Hope it's helpful in placing the muzzle!

Cheers,
-Blotch

Itreyu said:
Sweet, definetley gonna take this off up =)

Honestly I have NO clue where to start to add a muzzle. I figured by adding eyes maybe I could see something better. Could ya give me a few hints? Im going for a wolf.

oooh damn, dude!

Coupled with a little crash course on perspective and anatomy and then this? I've got a damn good feel, all i need is practice. Props to you bro =)
 

RokKaiser

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

Wow!  What an amazing opportunity!  Im always looking for good pointers and different perspectives.  Have a look if you will ^^
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

RokKaiser said:
Wow! What an amazing opportunity! Im always looking for good pointers and different perspectives. Have a look if you will ^^

Heya!

Your piece looks nice. Any particular area you were looking for critic or a redline?

Your character's legs are solid and hold a good sense of weight in them. I really do believe that they could hold his body physical body weight--the only thing to be wary of is how big/small you make his feet. It's a very common anatomical mistake to make the feet and hands too small. Its good to step back after you've laid out the rough sketch and evaluate is everything looks and feels right. Ask yourself, "Could his hind paws really keep him balanced and supported?"

I noticed you cleverly managed to hide his hands, also a very common way to get out of having to draw them ;) If hands are daunting, here's a link with some awesome photo reference of hands in just about every position you could think of, from Elfwood: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/hand/

Beyond that, I have the same ol' advice, "reference, reference, reference." Like anything more specific on this piece, just let me know!
Hope it was helpful,
Cheers,
-Blotch
 

RokKaiser

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
Heya!

Your piece looks nice. Any particular area you were looking for critic or a redline?

Your character's legs are solid and hold a good sense of weight in them. I really do believe that they could hold his body physical body weight--the only thing to be wary of is how big/small you make his feet. It's a very common anatomical mistake to make the feet and hands too small. Its good to step back after you've laid out the rough sketch and evaluate is everything looks and feels right. Ask yourself, "Could his hind paws really keep him balanced and supported?"

I noticed you cleverly managed to hide his hands, also a very common way to get out of having to draw them ;) If hands are daunting, here's a link with some awesome photo reference of hands in just about every position you could think of, from Elfwood: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/hand/

Beyond that, I have the same ol' advice, "reference, reference, reference." Like anything more specific on this piece, just let me know!
Hope it was helpful,
Cheers,
-Blotch

Awesome! that was great! ^_^ One thing that i should have specified earlier are the back muscles, they are by far my weakest point, i have no idea where to start o_O

Thanks so much for the imput ^^
-Rok
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

RokKaiser said:
One thing that i should have specified earlier are the back muscles, they are by far my weakest point, i have no idea where to start o_O

Thanks so much for the imput ^^
-Rok

Heya!

Since you asked about backs, here you go!
Attached is a quick diagram illustrating my words...

Reference is always key. http://www.corbis.com or http://www.gettyimages.com are two great sources to find reference photos for backs. I searched for "man back" on corbis and in two pages found a photo that matched your pose pretty closely.

There are three major areas that you should focus on when drawing backs: The Spine, the Scapula, and the Deltoids.

The spine is critical because it basically shows the flow of the entire body. The line of the spine should never be "straight" as natural spines have a curve.
Scapula are important (and probably the most difficult) because the shift a whole lot depending on what position the spine and shoulders are in. They are also nearly always visible under cloth (unless its a heavy jacket, and then even if the material is stretched) and really help to give a backward facing character a feeling of depth and 3D substance. Also, no matter how obese, fit or muscular your character is, you will still be able to see the line (or indent if your character is very overweight) of the scapula. Reference photos of naked backs are very easy to come across in most every position possible if you're ever having trouble visualizing how a scapula would be posed. Just remember they are unattached by a joint so they do move a whole lot! Roll your shoulders to get a good feel for 'em!
Deltoids are the muscles that attach the arm to the shoulder, and move depending on what direction the arm is going. For deltoids, you can be your own best reference if you have a mirror. You can rotate your arm and see how the muscle moves up and down, bulge or recess depending on how you hold your arm.

If you can get these three parts working for you, backs are much easier to put to paper!

Hope it was useful!
Cheers,
-Blotch
 

RokKaiser

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
Heya!

Since you asked about backs, here you go!
Attached is a quick diagram illustrating my words...

Reference is always key. http://www.corbis.com or http://www.gettyimages.com are two great sources to find reference photos for backs. I searched for "man back" on corbis and in two pages found a photo that matched your pose pretty closely.

There are three major areas that you should focus on when drawing backs: The Spine, the Scapula, and the Deltoids.

The spine is critical because it basically shows the flow of the entire body. The line of the spine should never be "straight" as natural spines have a curve.
Scapula are important (and probably the most difficult) because the shift a whole lot depending on what position the spine and shoulders are in. They are also nearly always visible under cloth (unless its a heavy jacket, and then even if the material is stretched) and really help to give a backward facing character a feeling of depth and 3D substance. Also, no matter how obese, fit or muscular your character is, you will still be able to see the line (or indent if your character is very overweight) of the scapula. Reference photos of naked backs are very easy to come across in most every position possible if you're ever having trouble visualizing how a scapula would be posed. Just remember they are unattached by a joint so they do move a whole lot! Roll your shoulders to get a good feel for 'em!
Deltoids are the muscles that attach the arm to the shoulder, and move depending on what direction the arm is going. For deltoids, you can be your own best reference if you have a mirror. You can rotate your arm and see how the muscle moves up and down, bulge or recess depending on how you hold your arm.

If you can get these three parts working for you, backs are much easier to put to paper!

Hope it was useful!
Cheers,
-Blotch

Yes! That was very usefull and im feeling much better about backs! Thank you soo much! ^_^

*scurries off to practice*
 

SpiritCreations

Wanted Dead or Alive
RE: Offering Redlines

Heya Blotch! :)

You know you're going to get ran into the ground with this "offering redline" business. lol :) Anyways, I took your advice about torsos and just sketching until certain lines look right and it really did help me out! Here's a piece I worked on today for the fun of it. It's a Mayan priest holding the sun... maned wolf, of course. If you see anything that could be better.. let me know but I also wanted to show you how much your advice really helped me out! I really appreciate it. One day once I get a better grasp of anatomy and such, I'm going to also offer redlines and help others too. I'll pay it forward. Thanks for everything you do!

Also.. to everyone... I know my banner is too big. I'm resizing it now. :)

Inali
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

SpiritCreations said:
Heya Blotch! :)

You know you're going to get ran into the ground with this "offering redline" business. lol :)

It's a Mayan priest holding the sun... maned wolf, of course. If you see anything that could be better.. let me know but I also wanted to show you how much your advice really helped me out! I really appreciate it. One day once I get a better grasp of anatomy and such, I'm going to also offer redlines and help others too. I'll pay it forward. Thanks for everything you do!

Inali

Bah, I don't think it's too much work to offer redlines ;) I enjoy it!

This piece is really nice! Took me a moment to find anything to really critic, actually. :]
But if I'm going to get nit-picky about it, there are a couple small things I redlined.
First, his pectoral muscles seem a tad big, and in general his torso a little short. Bodies can stretch pretty long with their arms extended upwards--Have you ever seen a cat stretched out on its side? Very long compared to how small and compact they normally are. Even if the muscles are relaxed, you will still pull the skin over 'em and give the illusion of elongating.
It's a pretty simple fix-- if you make the pec's a little smaller, move the navel down a touch, and lastly his hips (which are covered in the cloth, so no worries there.) Also, when a person raises their arms above their head, you can usually see the line of the base of their ribs. (Also, since its a maned wolf, you might consider even pushing it a little further than I did, since they are incredibly lanky animals.)

Another little thing: a tail extends out from the spine. His looks alright, but just a little off in my opinion--If you consider it must first be pointing down (to be in line with the spine), then curve back up, it would likely be at a slightly different curve.

Aaand, I wasn't sure if you wanted him to be looking dead-straight back at the viewer, to keep the nice symmetry of the piece. If that is the case, his face seems a little tilted. You can center the muzzle against the apex of the pecs and the center line of his body. HOWEVER, if I'm off base and he is meant to be tilting his head a hair toward the viewer, my apologies :> If that's the case, his face still seems a little off, and if you'd like, I can try and pin point it.

One last thing, and I'd call my critique done! If his hands are wrapped around the sphere of the sun, I don't think you would be able to see the tips of his thumbs as you have shown.

Over all, his costuming and general anatomy looks great! His head's in nice proportion to his body and arms and he has a good, solid feel. I hope you finish him, I'd love to seem him colored!

Hope it was helpful!

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

SpiritCreations

Wanted Dead or Alive
RE: Offering Redlines

blotch said:
SpiritCreations said:
Heya Blotch! :)

You know you're going to get ran into the ground with this "offering redline" business. lol :)

It's a Mayan priest holding the sun... maned wolf, of course. If you see anything that could be better.. let me know but I also wanted to show you how much your advice really helped me out! I really appreciate it. One day once I get a better grasp of anatomy and such, I'm going to also offer redlines and help others too. I'll pay it forward. Thanks for everything you do!

Inali

Bah, I don't think it's too much work to offer redlines ;) I enjoy it!

This piece is really nice! Took me a moment to find anything to really critic, actually. :]
But if I'm going to get nit-picky about it, there are a couple small things I redlined.
First, his pectoral muscles seem a tad big, and in general his torso a little short. Bodies can stretch pretty long with their arms extended upwards--Have you ever seen a cat stretched out on its side? Very long compared to how small and compact they normally are. Even if the muscles are relaxed, you will still pull the skin over 'em and give the illusion of elongating.
It's a pretty simple fix-- if you make the pec's a little smaller, move the navel down a touch, and lastly his hips (which are covered in the cloth, so no worries there.) Also, when a person raises their arms above their head, you can usually see the line of the base of their ribs. (Also, since its a maned wolf, you might consider even pushing it a little further than I did, since they are incredibly lanky animals.)

Another little thing: a tail extends out from the spine. His looks alright, but just a little off in my opinion--If you consider it must first be pointing down (to be in line with the spine), then curve back up, it would likely be at a slightly different curve.

Aaand, I wasn't sure if you wanted him to be looking dead-straight back at the viewer, to keep the nice symmetry of the piece. If that is the case, his face seems a little tilted. You can center the muzzle against the apex of the pecs and the center line of his body. HOWEVER, if I'm off base and he is meant to be tilting his head a hair toward the viewer, my apologies :> If that's the case, his face still seems a little off, and if you'd like, I can try and pin point it.

One last thing, and I'd call my critique done! If his hands are wrapped around the sphere of the sun, I don't think you would be able to see the tips of his thumbs as you have shown.

Over all, his costuming and general anatomy looks great! His head's in nice proportion to his body and arms and he has a good, solid feel. I hope you finish him, I'd love to seem him colored!

Hope it was helpful!

Cheers,
-Blotch

Thanks so much Blotch! :D I'll add those extra lines in the coloring process. I'm going for realism here so there will not be any line art in this piece once I'm done. *I stared at Kyoht's and Balaa's art too long and got inspired to try realism myself* Unless I just can't do it and I'll go back to my normal style of coloring. lol I totally see exactly what you mean with the smaller pecs. I too actually thought his torso was a bit too short but I shrugged it off and I said that he's bent at an angle.. or was born funny. Some Mayans were really stubby. :) I'll go ahead and stick his belly button down a bit further and fix that tail as well. Thank you so much! :D
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines

SpiritCreations said:
I too actually thought his torso was a bit too short but I shrugged it off and I said that he's bent at an angle.. or was born funny. Some Mayans were really stubby. :) I'll go ahead and stick his belly button down a bit further and fix that tail as well. Thank you so much! :D

It's always good to take a break from a piece and come back to it the next day. You see a whole lot more with fresh eyes! Also, it's easier to convince yourself to fix something. ;]
Another good trick is to scan your piece and flip is horizontally in Photoshop (or, if you dont have photoshop/scanner, a mirror works just as well.) It's a good way to pick out anything that looks "weird."
 
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