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Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 10/13/07

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Wolf E. Urameshi said:
Here I am once again. Here's another pic to fall victim to the Hell lines-err, redlines. Thank you!

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/462278/

Glad to see you back. :] Are red-lines really that bad? :[

Unfortunately, dragons are probably the most open ended "animal" to draw, since they are based on fiction and nothing solid to work from. So I'll try my best to offer a redline and some reference help, but in the end, dragons will always be subject to their creator.

First ask yourself--Am I drawing a realistic animal that could potential live, breath, fly, eat and defend itself? Or am I just going to draw a mythical beast without real anatomy or evolutionary substance? Either way is fine, but it certainly changes how you should go about designing a character.

Even when drawing a fictional animal, you can gather resources from many species without making your dragon looks like a bad science experiment. For instance, you can look at the belly and neck scales of a crocodile to see how the neck scales could fit together, or even a snake. Smooth scales are smooth because they slide on the ground, or have a lot of contact with the ground--so if you're trying to make a "realistic" dragon, you have to ask yourself, where would the scales be smooth?
For how spikes and horns attach, you can look at rooster spurs, chameleons or horny toads for instance. The only real prominent horns in nature are on gazelle and antelope, so you can look at their skulls as well for inspiration.
For feet, birds (like cassowaries, ostrich and birds of prey) can be good for reference, same with a lot of lizards.
Iguanas have some pretty awesome tails and spine-spikes, too.

In specific relation to your drawing, the only thing that looks "off" is the way you have the neck bulging, and the throat scales at irregular widths. You have to keep in mind, an animal's spine is also in their neck, and the neck would have a gentle curve and a consistent solidarity and weight. The neck grows thicker at the base of long necked animals (such as a giraffe or okapi) to attach firmly to their shoulders and torso. Also keep in mind, an animals head has to stay balanced on its long neck--so it either has to have a spindly neck with a small head, or a very muscular neck to support a larger head. Otherwise, you've stepped off into a realm of complete fantasy, which is alright with dragons. ;]

Anyway, dragons are fun. ;]

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

RTDragon

RTP User
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Well could you offer some redlines of my Komodo dragon character.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/427981/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/461011/

As well as a few of these sketches.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/430080/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/51462757/

I really need help on komodo dragons.
 

Icarus

No time like the present.
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r12/Draconic33/figuredragon.jpg

ok, this was a bit quick.
I posted this somewhere else and I got the info to straighten the legs out.
I'm trying to make it look like it could be quaduped or biped because he's a hybrid.
working on feets.
working on hands.
working on legs.

and thats all ^.=.^
ty and goodbye.
 

Artic

Not a Pony
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Hiya! I've been struggling with this for a while, and could definately use some help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/Lionne/img290.jpg - ignore the random stuff on it, they're so the scanner will pick up the light pencil work :/

I have no idea what to do with the wings because they lack feathers and fingers, and I'm still not happy with any of the legs.

Can you help me out?
 
O

Option7

Guest
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Is anyone still offering these redlines?
'Cause I have a couple of drawings I'm not sure of and I could use a bit of help.
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

RTDragon said:
Well could you offer some redlines of my Komodo dragon character.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/461011/

I really need help on komodo dragons.

Heya!

I redlined one and grabbed you some komodo dragon head reference. When you're sitting down to draw a specific species, it's good to identify some characteristics of the animal. Komodo dragons have a few obvious characteristics to their faces. For one, the front of their mouths have the gentle cleft and curve below the nostrils. Another, is their eyes are far apart, on the side of their heads.

In your sketch, I just added in the curve of the mouth to the face and pushed back the eye ridges and nostrils a little bit. (blue lines)
When sketching a specific animal, its best to set it down and look objectionably and ask yourself, "what is making this look weird?" or "what does this photo of a komodo dragon have that mine is lacking?"

As to the hair, hair can be pretty easy if you find a photo of roughly the same style (I searched for "scruffy hair" on corbis.com for the hair photo.) You just have to identify where the large "clumps" of hair are going, and which direction. Hair is like contained chaos, no matter how "neat" it is--unless your using a lot of gel, hair will never really be neat "spikes." :]

Hope it was helpful!

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Icarus said:
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r12/Draconic33/figuredragon.jpg

ok, this was a bit quick.
I posted this somewhere else and I got the info to straighten the legs out.
I'm trying to make it look like it could be quaduped or biped because he's a hybrid.
working on feets.
working on hands.
working on legs.

and thats all ^.=.^
ty and goodbye.

Hiya!
If you did straighten the legs out, he would not really have enough bow or bend in them to drop down into a quadrupedal mode. For something to be both upright and quadruped, it would need to have very strong legs (to support the weight of it standing upright) with large feet (for balance while upright) and a lot of bow/flex in the legs (to move while on all fours.) Also, to stay balanced while standing on its hind feet, it would have to have a large tail to act as a counter balance (look at velociraptor who had a stiff straight tail to keep them balanced) and it would also walk with the torso and head forward. Their center of gravity would move from hips to belly when they moved upright.
To demonstrate, get up and walk around on your tip toes (digitigrade) with your legs bent. You have to hunch a little to keep your balance, but you couldn't run very well like that unless you have some weight on the back end, like a stiff straight tail.

An animal that moves both quadrupedally and bipedally would also need a pretty flexible spine. The impact of both types of movement can be harsh unless you're built for it.

An animal in nature you can look at that can stand upright, but also move at a pretty good clip quadrupedal, is the meerkat. However, to actually walk upright, they'd need larger hind feet, more spring/bow to their legs and large calf muscles. (For instance, a dog can stand on its hind legs, but cannot walk very well for a lack of balance, but man can they move on all fours.)

Anyhow, the face on your dragon is very nice, and the spines are all well integrated into its form. I like it. :]

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Artic said:
Hiya! I've been struggling with this for a while, and could definately use some help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/Lionne/img290.jpg - ignore the random stuff on it, they're so the scanner will pick up the light pencil work :/

I have no idea what to do with the wings because they lack feathers and fingers, and I'm still not happy with any of the legs.

Can you help me out?

Happy to try and help. :]

First off, really nice head on your dragon!
As to the wings, unless your doing bird-ish wings (feathers) or bat wings (a webbed hand) you're really only left with pterodactyl type wings, as yours look. The only thing their lacking is the bit of skin that attaches the shoulder to the wing "wrist." Pterodactyl wings are very narrow and long for gliding, unlike bat wings which are shaped more for flapping.

Your legs looks pretty nice. For the front legs, the only thing I'd say is bring the "far" hand in a little more, so its obvious he has them tucked in. For the hind feet, the calves seem a little lost, but other than that, it looks good overall.

I made the tail longer, mostly just preference, but usually an animal that travels on the ground (which I would imagine your dragon would on occasion, or else why be quadrupedal and not built like a bird/pterodactyl) the tail acts as a counter balance when animals move on all fours.
Also, a suggestion would be to next time, have the dragon's head lower and more streamlined, less wind resistance when flying. :]

Nice piece! I hope to see more from ya. :]

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Spotty_the_cheetah said:
Just want to ask you about it (warning, mature content):
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/461891/
Yes... It's the snake :)

Heya!
You know, I'll be honest, she's pretty streamlined and I don't really see much that's weird (other than a reptile with mammal breasts, but whatever ;] )
The only thing that looks off is her nipple seems a tad high. She's very cute!
 

Artic

Not a Pony
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Thanks Blotch! That really helped alot. I'll definately get on adding those things :D
 

Icarus

No time like the present.
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

blotch said:
-blotch's post-

Thanks ^.=.^

lol though, when I saw the red lined pic, the first thing I thought was that movie called, "A Christmas Story." and Ralphie's little bro who gets put into the huge jacket and starts crying because he says, "I can't put my arms down!"
 
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

blotch said:
Wolf E. Urameshi said:
Here I am once again. Here's another pic to fall victim to the Hell lines-err, redlines. Thank you!

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/462278/

Glad to see you back. :] Are red-lines really that bad? :[

Unfortunately, dragons are probably the most open ended "animal" to draw, since they are based on fiction and nothing solid to work from. So I'll try my best to offer a redline and some reference help, but in the end, dragons will always be subject to their creator.

First ask yourself--Am I drawing a realistic animal that could potential live, breath, fly, eat and defend itself? Or am I just going to draw a mythical beast without real anatomy or evolutionary substance? Either way is fine, but it certainly changes how you should go about designing a character.

Even when drawing a fictional animal, you can gather resources from many species without making your dragon looks like a bad science experiment. For instance, you can look at the belly and neck scales of a crocodile to see how the neck scales could fit together, or even a snake. Smooth scales are smooth because they slide on the ground, or have a lot of contact with the ground--so if you're trying to make a "realistic" dragon, you have to ask yourself, where would the scales be smooth?
For how spikes and horns attach, you can look at rooster spurs, chameleons or horny toads for instance. The only real prominent horns in nature are on gazelle and antelope, so you can look at their skulls as well for inspiration.
For feet, birds (like cassowaries, ostrich and birds of prey) can be good for reference, same with a lot of lizards.
Iguanas have some pretty awesome tails and spine-spikes, too.

In specific relation to your drawing, the only thing that looks "off" is the way you have the neck bulging, and the throat scales at irregular widths. You have to keep in mind, an animal's spine is also in their neck, and the neck would have a gentle curve and a consistent solidarity and weight. The neck grows thicker at the base of long necked animals (such as a giraffe or okapi) to attach firmly to their shoulders and torso. Also keep in mind, an animals head has to stay balanced on its long neck--so it either has to have a spindly neck with a small head, or a very muscular neck to support a larger head. Otherwise, you've stepped off into a realm of complete fantasy, which is alright with dragons. ;]

Anyway, dragons are fun. ;]

Cheers,
-Blotch

Thank you Blotch! I'll remember your tips in the future! :)
 

RTDragon

RTP User
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

blotch said:
Heya!

I redlined one and grabbed you some komodo dragon head reference. When you're sitting down to draw a specific species, it's good to identify some characteristics of the animal. Komodo dragons have a few obvious characteristics to their faces. For one, the front of their mouths have the gentle cleft and curve below the nostrils. Another, is their eyes are far apart, on the side of their heads.

In your sketch, I just added in the curve of the mouth to the face and pushed back the eye ridges and nostrils a little bit. (blue lines)
When sketching a specific animal, its best to set it down and look objectionably and ask yourself, "what is making this look weird?" or "what does this photo of a komodo dragon have that mine is lacking?"

As to the hair, hair can be pretty easy if you find a photo of roughly the same style (I searched for "scruffy hair" on corbis.com for the hair photo.) You just have to identify where the large "clumps" of hair are going, and which direction. Hair is like contained chaos, no matter how "neat" it is--unless your using a lot of gel, hair will never really be neat "spikes." :]

Hope it was helpful!

Cheers,
-Blotch


Thank you for the advice. I'm sure these tips will be very helpful.
 

drakonshie

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

i need major help with this - anatomy and pose.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/466439/

i know a lot of things are wrong, forshortening of legs, scapula, arms and hands. though i can't seem to visualize how to correct it right. i tried to find photos with poses similar to this, i couldn't find any good ones..
 

minima

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Blotch, I tend to go with an almost overly stylized line art when I normally sketch free-form but my god I have an awful time with muzzles. This one is less stylized because the character its for seems to have most of her art done in a more toonish or anime style and it's something I don't always work in. Could you take a look at the face and tell me where it's wrong? Something doesn't feel quite right even for the barebones lines.

((attaching the lines because the scrap in the gallery has block coloring already))

Obviously, I also don't normally try draconic heads *laf*
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

drakonshie said:
i need major help with this - anatomy and pose.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/466439/

i know a lot of things are wrong, forshortening of legs, scapula, arms and hands. though i can't seem to visualize how to correct it right. i tried to find photos with poses similar to this, i couldn't find any good ones..

Heya!
First off, I must say, that particular pose you have the character in is very difficult without reference. Sometimes, you have to use a bunch of photos and mash them together to get all the right angles. Anyhow, the first thing that struck me was the tail. It would probably have more of a gradual drape over the character, due to gravity and weight of the tail (unless it's a stiff tail, in which case it would probably be on the floor coming toward the viewer.)

For the foreshortening of the bottom leg, the best way to show that it is coming toward the viewer is to add lighting and shadow. Otherwise, it's pretty difficult to show bulk.

Hope the redline is a little helpful. :]

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

minima said:
Blotch, I tend to go with an almost overly stylized line art when I normally sketch free-form but my god I have an awful time with muzzles. This one is less stylized because the character its for seems to have most of her art done in a more toonish or anime style and it's something I don't always work in. Could you take a look at the face and tell me where it's wrong? Something doesn't feel quite right even for the barebones lines.

Heya!

Well, I suspect if you made the muzzle a little more rounded, to give the impression its more bulbous and 3d, it might pop it out a bit more and add some depth. Tough with such a stylized character, but I think it helps. :]
Also, the character's right eye looked a little tilted. ;]

Hope it was helpful!
Cheers,
-Blotch
 

drakonshie

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

blotch said:
Heya!
First off, I must say, that particular pose you have the character in is very difficult without reference. Sometimes, you have to use a bunch of photos and mash them together to get all the right angles. Anyhow, the first thing that struck me was the tail. It would probably have more of a gradual drape over the character, due to gravity and weight of the tail (unless it's a stiff tail, in which case it would probably be on the floor coming toward the viewer.)

For the foreshortening of the bottom leg, the best way to show that it is coming toward the viewer is to add lighting and shadow. Otherwise, it's pretty difficult to show bulk.

Hope the redline is a little helpful. :]

Cheers,
-Blotch


wow your adjustments make it more convincing. it looks more natural with a graceful flow and not so stiff. the photo references are helpful too. thank you for taking the time to do this, i highly appreciate it.
 

Xipoid

Cameras
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Hey there Blotch,

If you happen to have some free time... what do you think of these?

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/435207/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/434231/ (brief nudity so NSFW)
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/433348/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/433216/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/433284/

Yea... any help would be appreciated

Thanks in advance! :D
 

blotch

Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Xipoid said:
Hey there Blotch,

If you happen to have some free time... what do you think of these?

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/435207/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/434231/ (brief nudity so NSFW)

Yea... any help would be appreciated

Thanks in advance! :D

I really really really can't say how happy I am seeing someone draw realistic female anatomy--and I don't mean zomg boobies--I mean all the right curves and without some gaping chest wound they call a vagina. Anyway! All the pieces you linked too are quite nice, and definitely shows an attention to anatomy, and you're not afraid to add a little color and shading.

I just grabbed the top two for starters, but if you'd like I can go back and revisit the other three in more depth.

The first one looks really nice and clean. Couple of little things--her right breast is a little lopsided compared to the other--however, since most woman are a little lopsided, I'd not say its a bad thing or necessarily something to be corrected. Just an observation! :]
Second, I just slightly enlarged her hips/legs in Photoshop, to be a little more to ratio with her shoulders. (Didn't want to redline, because I think your curves and anatomy is good, just a little too small in relation to the rest of the body.) Even slender women are all curves, and the hips fit squarely below the shoulders.

The second picture, with the brown husky female: Also a nice piece, and her face is very cute. I didn't want to go in and muck around there with some redlines, same as the first piece, so I just moved the eyes a tad closer together in Photoshop. Predators have their eyes set forward in their head, and one of the best ways to make sure it looks like a canine or a feline is to set them forward in the face (like humans.)
She also looks a little bunched up in her shoulders and torso--If you look at the photo reference I included of the woman with her back showing, you can see how much the shoulder "stretches" up when you raise your arms. If you try it yourself, you see the "ball" of the shoulder almost reaches up to the bottom of your ear. When you lift up your arms like that, you pull the skin over your ribs and accentuate their shape as well.

Also! Don't be afraid to show a little bit of the hands in a pose like this! If you don't feel confident in drawing hands at this angle, or just cant find the right reference, you can look at your own hands (or find a willing model) and just put a tiny indication of them (unless they absolutely would not be showing in a pose.) I stress it because in art, a lot of times people bend over backwards to try and hind hands/paws/feet because they are afraid of drawing them. It can look pretty obvious and detracts from the solidity of the character and overall piece--make us think there ARE hands behind her head, not just empty white space, and you win.

Ahem, anyhow, you do have a lot of nice work and I look forward to seeing more of your stuff, either here or around FA. :]

Cheers,
-Blotch
 

Xipoid

Cameras
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

blotch said:
[serious critiquing]

Cheers,
-Blotch

Ah, very good! I'll be sure to both get on the learning and the part about more drawings :)


Thank you very much!


P.S.
Just a little question, what do you think is a good coloring/painting program?
I've been told PS <insert version> and Painter <insert roman numerals> are both good, but I'm not sure which would be more appropriate...
 

minima

New Member
RE: Offering Redlines < Resurrected! 3/18/07

Blotch:

Thanks for looking at it. In this case I can't take the muzzle suggestion because it's not my character and the character doesn't have that style of mouth. The eye... yeah... I'll need to fix that -.-

Thanks a mil ^^
 
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