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@@@ OFFICIAL SUGGESTION THREAD @@@

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Considering people offer support and post links to discord servers without this category, I feel like it wouldn't make that much of a difference to add it.
This is exactly why it's a problem. Discord, Telegram, Skype, and so-on linking is something of a grey area on its own, but in regards to general Forum Policy and whatnot it'd be a losing battle not worth the effort. A couple sites make triply sure to cover their bases for legal stuff(only letting users post excerpts of news articles, for example), but there's enough wriggle room by default typically for a site to go "It's not on us" if it turns out somebody joined a private chat group or chose to meet up with somebody using information that was shared on their servers and turned out to be Bad News.

That calculus... changes, when you make a subforum that's specifically created for having users air their dirty laundry and vulnerabilities in it. That calculus changes even more when said subforum is an official subforum / thread... on a website's official forum. Your potential for somebody to take a long look and go "You were negligent" is a lot higher. You can get around this by generally showing that your moderation did as much of a good faith effort as could be expected to prevent exploitation... but therein lay the other problem. FA is not a minor site. It has money. It was, indeed, recently sold for presumably a good deal of it. Its standard for "good faith moderation efforts" is going to be higher than many sites.

Consider, if you will: We had two self-avowed domestic terrorists / extremists banned on FAF approximately in the last year. Not "Hrng wrongthink" 'extremists', self-admitted members of literal "Defined by the FBI and international law enforcement community as terrorist extremist groups" groups. We also had a returning familiar face outright doxx one of our users and try to intimidate them by sharing the doxx'd information publicly on the forum. Just as three immediate examples from the last year. So we know people have their eye on FAF, as well as that they're already fishing for user information. And not only do we know that, there's staff activity logs showing that they're aware of it too.

The "good faith moderation efforts" required to allow as much would be... more than many people here would probably like. Including staff. And while they could skimp on as much, I can't imagine Dragoneer's in any sort of financial position at the moment to play that roulette instead of playing safe.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Considering people offer support and post links to discord servers without this category, I feel like it wouldn't make that much of a difference to add it.
It would make zero sense on FAF, since there's no need for a safe haven since being rude or having opinions is heavily frowned upon to begin with.
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Eh, I have issues with setting up a Life Advice section, which I kind of would like to run by qualified individuals. Particularly, though, I really wouldn't want people with past infractions and bans on the forums setting or acting as staff on a Life Advice section or any forum subforums.

I feel that is a very reasonable and minimal requirement.
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
Eh, I have issues with setting up a Life Advice section, which I kind of would like to run by qualified individuals. Particularly, though, I really wouldn't want people with past infractions and bans on the forums setting or acting as staff on a Life Advice section or any forum subforums.

I feel that is a very reasonable and minimal requirement.
Who better to give advice than those who've made the mistakes? :p
 

Miles Marsalis

The Last DJ.
Who better to give advice than those who've made the mistakes? :p
Those who haven't made such dumb, disgusting mistakes and who owe up to them in full if they did.

It's a simple standard potential staff should be able to meet.
 

luffy

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
I personally will not be adding an advice forum. That kind of thing can easily be discussed in our current forums and the only point of separating it would be to go through archived topics and get advice - which is probably not a really good idea.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
50xub5.jpg


This is to say I have contacted the email that @Flamingo posted in the canned response to write off this suggestion prior and that I have yet to get actual justifications for what exactly was done that constituted being defined as breaking the CoC for harassment

Like seems sus that we can't get justifications so we can know what exactly we did to avoid doing that again.
 

Flamingo

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
There's a reason stated in the warning/suspension message (as with all warning/suspension messages), with the quoted material behind it, that specifically highlights what portion of the Code of Conduct was violated.

So, please stop mischaracterizing the event and suggesting you were blindly suspended without explanation.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
There's a reason stated in the warning/suspension message (as with all warning/suspension methods), with the quoted material behind it, that specifically highlights what portion of the Code of Conduct was violated.

It seems sus that you keep pretending you didn't get notified.
Okay saying, "harassment" and providing a copypaste of the CoC section that covers that is not really justification.
Like sending the post in question with that doesnt tell an individual what about that action was harassment or whatever violation was felt to be.
If you don't tell the person what behavior it was that was the violation how do you expect them to change that behavior in order to avoid another violation?

Is it so hard for you to not just copy paste things and do a few extra key strokes,
"You are in violation of harasment as is seen here in this post by you doing x y z. you will be suspended for x as this is violation x."

EDIT: nice edit there ;)
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
Well, well, well! I find myself in a bit of a dilemma here. Does Mr. Fox jump in in defense of bogus moderation, or does he sit on the sideline remembering when no one helped him out while basking in the satisfaction about someone that should have been banned a long time ago and finally got their upcomings... This is quite the pickle indeed...
 

Flamingo

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
I edited it 30 seconds after I posted - the original was:

It seems sus that you keep pretending you didn't get notified.

But that didn't accurately capture my desire to be polite and afford you the opportunity to stop. Again, I cannot post your warning messages or engage in this conversation with any detail due to our privacy policy - but, pretending you weren't told what you did wrong is not accurate.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
I edited it 30 seconds after I posted - the original was:



But that didn't accurately capture my desire to be polite and afford you the opportunity to stop. Again, I cannot post your warning messages or engage in this conversation with any detail due to our privacy policy - but, pretending you weren't told what you did wrong is not accurate.
"afford you the opportunity to stop"
Either way your post did not address what I am talking about.

As you would say "you are misrepresenting the situation"

I am not denying I did something wrong.
I am not saying that the actions of the moderators was unwarranted.

What I AM saying is that there wasn't justification provided. Like the actual why.

"You are ticketed for speeding, going 55 in a 35"
"Oh yes that Is speeding and I now see what exactly was the wrong doing"

"You have been Temporarily Suspended for violating the following site rule:

Code of Conduct, Section 2.4 Do not harass anyone.

In this context, harassment includes creating an account with an offensive name, impersonation of another user, and remarks which discuss personal grievances, quarrels, malicious rumors, negative statements about, purposefully misgendering or deadnaming other individuals, and attempting to address or contact a user who has blocked you or whom you have blocked, including soliciting other users to pass on messages or otherwise make contact on your behalf. This does not include civil discussions about topics of public interest such as celebrities or government officials, but does include 'bewares' and similar content. If a particular type of content does not appeal to you, then do not seek it out to make disparaging comments. Users with a pattern of this behavior may be cited for harassment.

With the following content:"

And pasted after that was copies of the posts in which the violation was found.

The question still lies in what exactly was harassment though.
What was the justification so as to not replicate that behavior and violate that rule again?

OR as I had said what is the justification?

Again not saying I made no wrong doing, just that I am unaware of what part of what I posted was the offending content so I don't do it again yeah?
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
I personally will not be adding an advice forum. That kind of thing can easily be discussed in our current forums and the only point of separating it would be to go through archived topics and get advice - which is probably not a really good idea.
That is fair. Forgot it'd add quite a lot of work on your end, so apologize if it seemed short-sighted. A reason for the suggestion is that it is rather successful on various other forums, sites, etc, that I am on and would love to see this place in a better shape too.

If one are to make such threads I reckon they are to be made in General, or Community?
 

luffy

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
That is fair. Forgot it'd add quite a lot of work on your end, so apologize if it seemed short-sighted. A reason for the suggestion is that it is rather successful on various other forums, sites, etc, that I am on and would love to see this place in a better shape too.

If one are to make such threads I reckon they are to be made in General, or Community?
It's a well meaning suggestion, so I don't mean to dismiss it without thought - I just don't think that it belongs as its own. It could be either of the two depending on what you need to talk about!
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
It's a well meaning suggestion, so I don't mean to dismiss it without thought - I just don't think that it belongs as its own. It could be either of the two depending on what you need to talk about!
True that. Have plenty of thread ideas, but not sure if I have the time for it. Busy enough as it is with work.
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
Who better to give advice than those who've made the mistakes? :p
Exactly. It's like someone who knows nothing about alcohol abuse or addiction running an AA meeting, where's the sense in that?

Those that have been there know best.
 
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TyraWadman

The Silent Observer
Well, well, well! I find myself in a bit of a dilemma here. Does Mr. Fox jump in in defense of bogus moderation, or does he sit on the sideline remembering when no one helped him out while basking in the satisfaction about someone that should have been banned a long time ago and finally got their upcomings... This is quite the pickle indeed...
Okay saying, "harassment" and providing a copypaste of the CoC section that covers that is not really justification.
Like sending the post in question with that doesnt tell an individual what about that action was harassment or whatever violation was felt to be.
If you don't tell the person what behavior it was that was the violation how do you expect them to change that behavior in order to avoid another violation?

Is it so hard for you to not just copy paste things and do a few extra key strokes,
"You are in violation of harasment as is seen here in this post by you doing x y z. you will be suspended for x as this is violation x."

EDIT: nice edit there ;)

You both have a history of letting your tempers fly and then bring it up in irrelevant threads.

I witnessed the comment you made in the autism thread Mr.fox, and many more have witnessed the never-ending grudge match between Lucy and 'the world'.

No one is working against you here but yourselves.
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
Ok, dad! Besides, it's ok to rip on something if you're part of it. That's like, the golden rule.
 

ben909

vaporeon with Axolotl gill array as neck fin
Ok, dad! Besides, it's ok to rip on something if you're part of it. That's like, the golden rule.
Not sure if that logic really holds

and should this really be in the suggestion thread?
 

ben909

vaporeon with Axolotl gill array as neck fin
We should possibly have seperate suggestion threads for the fourms, main site, and non software forums

so we can fight elsewere
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
I say bring back The Black Hole and Rants & Raves. If you want sub-forums to fight on those would be like crack here. Or just bring back The Politics forum.
 
D

Deleted member 134556

Guest
I say bring back The Black Hole and Rants & Raves. If you want sub-forums to fight on those would be like crack here. Or just bring back The Politics forum.
One of the main reasons behind removing the politics forum was because many people were fighting each other consistently in that section, which also caused an overwhelming amount of reports the moderators had to deal with. Removing it has resulted in considerably less fighting and conflict between users, as well as making the jobs of staff much less stressful and frustrating.
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
One of the main reasons behind removing the politics forum was because many people were fighting each other consistently in that section, which also caused an overwhelming amount of reports the moderators had to deal with. Removing it has resulted in considerably less fighting and conflict between users, as well as making the jobs of staff much less stressful and frustrating.
Yes I realise that, I was mostly being satirical. It's all entertaining from an observer point of view, unless you're the person who has to clean it up. However, there will always be people on this forum who want to fight or complain over something and it is better to have a place where they can do that.
 

Yakamaru

Level 32 Knight
Well, it's like when a black person walks up to another black person who is also a friend and says "what's up my nigga". In that context it might be ok. But if a whity did it everyone on The Block would be gunning for him.

Just sayin'.
Dude, NOT cool!

"The Block" sounds like the worst horror movie of all time for millennials and Gen Z.

"Oh my god, Stacy blocked me on Facebook! THIS MEANS SOCIAL MEDIA WAR!"
 
D

Deleted member 134556

Guest
Yes I realise that, I was mostly being satirical. It's all entertaining from an observer point of view, unless you're the person who has to clean it up. However, there will always be people on this forum who want to fight or complain over something and it is better to have a place where they can do that.
My apologies. I didn't know your previous post was satire. I still think it's better we not have a supposedly designated place where people are expected to fight others, but instead just discourage aggressively fighting in all ways.
 
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