Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[TwilightV]

A person's age and health is not always equal to their influence upon others. A prime example of this was (is?) Fidel Castro.

 

[CannonFodder]

Godwin's law
[/thread]

 

[Azure]

Godwin's law
[/thread]

Shut up or contribute.

 

[Deo]

AThey're not at all coming from a good place when they "celebrate" someone's death. They'd be coming from a good place if they lamented the fact that someone like Osama bin Laden used their wealth, influence, intelligence and sheer charisma for evil instead of good. But he turned out the way he did for the same fundamental reason you guys feel and react the way you do; because it's simply easier to feel spite and hate than remorse, and to be glad the bad guy went away (in the short term) instead of wishing they could have been one of the good guys.

This is it. It's easier for us to forget that we equipped these terrorists, and simply blame it on a man whose face we know. It's easier for the mind to grasp, and not nearly as complex. And it is easier for us to dissonance ourselves from such people as Hitler and Osama by depriving them of humanity, of calling them monsters. It's easier to let ourselves hate them that way. And indeed we want to hate them, hate is so much easier. It's easier to light fireworks and scream about America and revel in a man's death than pay penance and thought to the thousands dead in the war and to regret the armament of the Mujahadeen (sp?). It's easier if we cleanly seperate it into "them" and "us", that way we can ignore them as people, we can kill them without remorse, and we can plunder their homeland and ravage their civilians in retaliation. It's easier, but it's not right.
I IMPLORE YOU, TRANSCEND THIS MADNESS PEOPLE! Or at least consider it.

 

[Smart_Cookie]

Clearly this is a stunning victory for Islam. Bin Laden is now a martyr to lead his people to victory and is in heaven celebrating with his thousands of virgins. Praise Allah!

:V

 

[Lobar]

Godwin's law
[/thread]

when talking about actual mass murderers godwin doesn't really apply

you know what why don't you just go over to the kids' table until we're done here

 

[Littlerock]

If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?

Dammit, America.

 

[Deo]

It's true. It's like when there's that rare biopic or book that tries to represent the real Hitler, with all the sensationalism removed, and people in the media express concern because someone wants to show him "as if he were actually human". Hate to break it to you, but he was, and that's what people don't want to wrestle with. The same person who would go on to almost single-handedly instigate WWII and who was directly responsible for the holocaust started out as a slightly above average artist with some slightly out in left field political theories and a milder antisemitism than what a lot of "normal" people harbor. It's not easy to think a lot of furries on this very site could essentially be Hitler if circumstances were just a little different, or that by that same token, Hitler could be that quirky guy you talk to on the internet and view their art. Tough shit. Life's complicated.

It cuts too close. That humans are capable of such savagery and depravity. But it is important that we do not forget our evils, and do not dehumanize others. For if we do we are likely to in our complacency allow such actions to reoccur and history to repeat itself.

 

[CannonFodder]

Shut up or contribute.

The fact we have dehumanized him is nothing new, and I expect the celebrations over his death to last days because even though we like to pretend to take the moral high ground it doesn't change the fact people are out getting drunk and blowing vuvezela in celebration. We are celebrating over his death and osama celebrated over the deaths in 9/11. We're stooping to his level.

 

[Deo]

He deserves to die, he seriously fucking does, there's no arguing that at all.

No. No one deserves to die. Ever. No exceptions. Never compromise on the important tenets of morality. You try to say he deserves death, but for what? To sate your need for revenge? To make this war seem as if it had a point? To justify the ransack and bloodshed over the decade? No.

 

[Lobar]

If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?

Dammit, America.

Al-Qaeda is not a nation, bin Laden is not a head of state, analogy is not valid.

 

[Deo]

Also, you saying that it's better he be alive is naive. I like the analogy about Hitler.

It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

 

[CAThulu]

Clearly this is a stunning victory for Islam. Bin Laden is now a martyr to lead his people to victory and is in heaven celebrating with his thousands of virgins. Praise Allah!

:V

Oh yeah. This is just the beginning of the shit-storm we're going to see. Despite the fact that he and his band of terrorists have done a fantastic job in making Muslims look fricken' nuts, the terrorist cells that are still active are more then likely going to retaliate and go out in a blaze of glory, taking as many people out with them. There's a lot of clean up left to be done, but I'm hoping that no one else will die for the ideal of a martyred Osama Bin Ladin.

 

[Zaraphayx]

If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?

Dammit, America.

Like the people in this thread saying we should drag his corpse through the street and hang it places and such? Yeah, I sort of laughed about that too :V

 

[Azure]

This is it. It's easier for us to forget that we equipped these terrorists, and simply blame it on a man whose face we know. It's easier for the mind to grasp, and not nearly as complex. And it is easier for us to dissonance ourselves from such people as Hitler and Osama by depriving them of humanity, of calling them monsters. It's easier to let ourselves hate them that way. And indeed we want to hate them, hate is so much easier. It's easier to light fireworks and scream about America and revel in a man's death than pay penance and thought to the thousands dead in the war and to regret the armament of the Mujahadeen (sp?). It's easier if we cleanly seperate it into "them" and "us", that way we can ignore them as people, we can kill them without remorse, and we can plunder their homeland and ravage their civilians in retaliation. It's easier, but it's not right.
I IMPLORE YOU, TRANSCEND THIS MADNESS PEOPLE! Or at least consider it.

In the larger scheme of things, of course, you're right. Our nation IS hyped up on nationalism. And racism. And classism. And every other little divide we can possibly think of. Hate IS easier. Dehumanization of "enemies" is being programmed into children and adults alike, through every form of media and more. And it's wrong. Rationally thinking people know this. What's to be done?

It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

Why? You gonna question him? What do you expect to get out of him?

 

[Unsilenced]

Pretty much anything and everything I have to say about this has already been said.

America fuck yeah and all what.

EDIT: I think it's good that he's dead and not captured, actually. He's useless to us as a prisoner, and if he was in our custody for even a day before being shipped back to an American prison we would be in a world of shit.

Shut up

Fixed. :v

 

[DarrylWolf]

Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V

I really do find a negative in that Osama binLaden had the chance in life to be remembered as something much different than the 21st-century villain we knew him as today. Imagine if he'd used his intellect, money, and obvious strategic prowess for something good instead. That's the reason why I can't bring myself to declare May 1 as a day of victory just yet.

 

[Littlerock]

Al-Qaeda is not a nation, bin Laden is not a head of state, analogy is not valid.

Analogy is quite valid, considering how short a fuse the average American has when it comes to getting beaten at ANYTHING. Where people are placed politically doesn't always give them the assumed level of power among the people.
So late, how I make sense? Brain has ceased function. :c

 

[Teneba]

It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

Maybe it wasn't possible for him to be captured alive? Honestly, do you think he would've even gone along quietly? He probably doesn't even cherish this life and would endure any amount of interrogation & torture without talking. Also, if he was released back into Pakistan for the (non Al Qaida) citizens to take care of him, they most likely would've hanged him. Remember, that's exactly what happened to Saddam.

 

[Kangamutt]

Oh god I am NOT looking forward to all the annoying flag-waving, blind nationalism, and the having 9/11 crammed down my throat again. Not like it's going to bring anyone that died over the past 10 years because of all this back to life, or revive our fallen economy due to the huge investment in it, or bring back those who are still stationed over there.

 

[CAThulu]

Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

I really do find a negative in that Osama binLaden had the chance in life to be remembered as something much different than the 21st-century villain we knew him as today. Imagine if he'd used his intellect, money, and obvious strategic prowess for something good instead. That's the reason why I can't bring myself to declare May 1 as a day of victory just yet.

We can imagine that, and mourn that he didn't use his talents and finances to do good (as we in the west see the idea of good) but he did use it for a very evil purpose; to end the lives of many others, including those that believed in what he said and blew themselves up for his cause. I have no sympathy for this man. He was evil, pure and simple. He chose how to live his life, and it was in the most distructive way possible. I am glad that he is dead because he will no longer be able to spread the hatred in his heart to his followers. Mourn him if you must for the loss of potential, but never forget how much suffering, fear, and pain he orchestrated. Period.

 

[Deo]

In the larger scheme of things, of course, you're right. Our nation IS hyped up on nationalism. And racism. And classism. And every other little divide we can possibly think of. Hate IS easier. Dehumanization of "enemies" is being programmed into children and adults alike, through every form of media and more. And it's wrong. Rationally thinking people know this. What's to be done?

I honestly wish I knew. I am trying though, right now, in attempting to stop this vicious cycle of revenge, hatred, and dehumanizing; at least in this small sphere of the internet. I'll see what I can do tommarrow, I just bet there'll be a rally or something on central campus, and I'll try to convince others to drop their hatred there as well. Perhaps that is the best I can do. I will strive for more, and I hope that in turn my efforts will impact others and inspire them to change and to give their voices against violence and barbarism.

Why? You gonna question him? What do you expect to get out of him?

We could question him. We could use him as a lure. We could use him as a negotiating leverage (not much though due to his lack of current influence). But live capture would be better than him dead. When he is dead he becomes a token to the cause, he becomes a rallying point, he becomes a way to say "Look at how barbaric those people are in how they glorify a man's death!" And again, I did not wish him dead. I believe no one deserves to die.

 

[Lobar]

also if you think Bradley Manning's treatment is inhumane

 

[Rukh_Whitefang]

No. No one deserves to die. Ever. No exceptions. Never compromise on the important tenets of morality. You try to say he deserves death, but for what? To sate your need for revenge? To make this war seem as if it had a point? To justify the ransack and bloodshed over the decade? No.

So all those people who tried to assassinate Hitler were doing wrong then? Or just the fact that by saying what you did, all the Nazi's tried at Nuremberg that were condemned to death was wrong? Or anytime the world holds a trial on the basis of crimes against humanity and condems the said person to death for the crime, Apparently that is wrong too.

 

[OssumPawesome]

Oh god I am NOT looking forward to all the annoying flag-waving, blind nationalism, and the having 9/11 crammed down my throat again. Not like it's going to bring anyone that died over the past 10 years because of all this back to life, or revive our fallen economy due to the huge investment in it, or bring back those who are still stationed over there.

I'm dreading tomorrow because it's just gonna be photo montages with cheery music playing.