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Osama Bin Laden is Dead

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Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

Him being alive wouldn't count for anything more than when Sadam was caught alive. Eventually, we would have killed him.

Now, just my opinion on the matter here:

I remember 9/11. Vividly. My 7th grade Language Arts teacher was called out, because her husband was in the North Tower when it was hit. My principal came in and told us planes flew into the towers. I walked home after a full day of school and could actually see the smoke coming from where the towers were. Two days later I learn that several families in and around my town learned one of their loved ones was either dead or stranded in New York City after the attacks while at a candle light vigil, one of them being a relative of mine. Hundreds more first responders are still suffering illnesses caused by the debris of the attacks. So I might be a bit biased here, given my relation to the events.

Justice needed to be served. He needed to be held accountable for the thousands of people killed that day as well as his constituents. There is no statute of limitations nor does this mean less to those people in the New York area just because this is a decade later. The effects of those attacks are still apparent today just as much as the giant hole in the ground left after the wreckage was cleared. Would it have been nice for him to be alive? Maybe. I can't imagine what his trial would actually prove. Any information he may have given would be highly suspect given his current standing in al-Qaeda and short of torture, I doubt he'd be willing to give anything useful (even then, he'd probably just tell us anything we wanted to hear at that point).

This is the end of an era, and yet it's not. It remains to be seen what impact his death will have, considering heightened alert levels in US embassies throughout the world and numerous threats against western nations for attempts on Bin Laden's life. Can I say that I'm glad that his dead? I suppose. Frankly, the kind of mad man that has inspired and orchestrated the deaths of countless innocents for the propagation of his ideology such as him holds no place in the world.

We can recall American involvement with training Osama and his constituents, arming them, and so on. At the end of the day though, this is a man who didn't think twice about killing a child if it meant pleasing his idea of God. I can make several arguments against the execution of someone purely on a revenge standpoint, but there's something so decidedly evil about Bin Laden that it's hard for many people to look at him and say "he shouldn't have been killed." To ask for apathy or malaise over his death is simply asking too much of people, especially those who have actually been touched by what he's done.

If we're lucky, this victory will lead to moving political discussion more onto the domestic front in the United States.
 

OssumPawesome

Ossumest Possumest
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

In an ironic type of way. Yeah, I find it weird that the on the same day, 2 of the most evil men alive were announced dead. Is there anything that explains that, or is their a deeper meaning? No, As I said, I just find it weird that it happens to be on the same day.

There are worse people than Osama by a long shot.

Pretty much. It should be the last resort though.

That's what the second condition is all about. If any other form of communication is available, it's not morally permissible. I lack knowledge of bin laden as a person, and their power structure to really gauge whether or not I think his death is morally justified. This is one of those political instances where I feel really conflicted, and there's nowhere in politics for someone who hasn't made up their mind with zealous fervor.
 

Deo

The hatred of FAF personified
I'd just like to say real quick...that people who are in pain and are terminally ill attached to a machine which keeps them alive artificially... absolutely deserve death, if they so choose. Who says death is always a bad thing?
There is the morally important difference in your situations, sir. One chooses death, the other has his life deprived of him against his will. THINK. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO THINK.
 

CAThulu

In FAF CAThulu lies dreaming..
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

There are worse people than Osama by a long shot.

yeah, but they probably didn't die on the same day as Hitler, and weren't as globally hated.

Really, I know all you guys can't stand Rukh, but he's just pointing out a coincidence. Leave him alone.
 

RedSavage

Rattlesnake Flavored
DAMNIT PEOPLE (outside my dorm)
MOTHERFUCKERS NOW HAVE AIR HORNS AND TRUMPETS TO GO WITH THEIR FIREWORKS
FUCKERS IT'S 1AM EXAMS ARE TOMMARROW, ARE YOU ALL REALLY THAT GLEEFUL OVER A MAN BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD??!?!

Alright, that's pushing it a bit. This time of night, people can afford to "fuck yea america" with a little tact.
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
DAMNIT PEOPLE (outside my dorm)
MOTHERFUCKERS NOW HAVE AIR HORNS AND TRUMPETS TO GO WITH THEIR FIREWORKS
FUCKERS IT'S 1AM EXAMS ARE TOMMARROW, ARE YOU ALL REALLY THAT GLEEFUL OVER A MAN BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD??!?!

any excuse to party
 

moonchylde

He's like, this guy, you know?
ಠ_ಠ
LOOK AT THIS FACE OF DISAPPROVAL AND THEN READ THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD.

Sorry, but while I have nothing but respect for other people's beliefs, that respect stops when they believe in wholesale slaughter in the name of their "god". That man had the blood of thousands on his hands, so as far as I'm concerned he can rot for eternity in the devil's colon and I still won't give a shit. Given my own beliefs, neither he nor any of the fundie fuckwits that are probably even now calling him a martyr would hesitate to leave my head laying in the sand, so why should I care about his sudden case of high-velocity lead poisoning?
 

OssumPawesome

Ossumest Possumest
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

yeah, but they probably didn't die on the same day as Hitler, and weren't as globally hated.

Really, I know all you guys can't stand Rukh, but he's just pointing out a coincidence. Leave him alone.

That's just it though. It's just a coincidence. It has no implications and doesn't demand being discussed as if it's an actual point.
 

CAThulu

In FAF CAThulu lies dreaming..
There is the morally important difference in your situations, sir. One chooses death, the other has his life deprived of him against his will. THINK. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO THINK.

After he deprived so many of their life? *Shakes head* Hun, he was a bad, bad man. And like any bad man, he needed to be dealt with. Some will agree to go quietly, some will stand in defiance to the death. You can rally all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he died the way he lived, violently. He got exactly what he deserved, end of story.
 

CAThulu

In FAF CAThulu lies dreaming..
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

That's just it though. It's just a coincidence. It has no implications and doesn't demand being discussed as if it's an actual point.

So stop discussing it. *shrugs*
 

Darkwing

Member
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

Nothing does. There is no justifying killing a man. Why do you so desperately seek out a means of justifying death?

This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live? What has he done that has affected our world positively?

Anyways, I'll be happily celebrating with friends tomorrow like the evil patriotic barbarian I am :3

Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.

May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.

Holy shit I looked that up to confirm it.

That is true o.o
 

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs

Fighter of the Nightman
Now that i think about it is it okay to celebrate the death of a human being?
 

CAThulu

In FAF CAThulu lies dreaming..
Sorry, but while I have nothing but respect for other people's beliefs, that respect stops when they believe in wholesale slaughter in the name of their "god". That man had the blood of thousands on his hands, so as far as I'm concerned he can rot for eternity in the devil's colon and I still won't give a shit. Given my own beliefs, neither he nor any of the fundie fuckwits that are probably even now calling him a martyr would hesitate to leave my head laying in the sand, so why should I care about his sudden case of high-velocity lead poisoning?

Ahh...logic. THANK you! ^_^
 

ArielMT

'Net Help Desk
People should not be "glad" that he's dead, we should not be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.

This message is lost through dehumanization. A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened. Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.
 

Teneba

Member
Him being alive wouldn't count for anything more than when Sadam was caught alive. Eventually, we would have killed him.

Now, just my opinion on the matter here:

I remember 9/11. Vividly. My 7th grade Language Arts teacher was called out, because her husband was in the North Tower when it was hit. My principal came in and told us planes flew into the towers. I walked home after a full day of school and could actually see the smoke coming from where the towers were. Two days later I learn that several families in and around my town learned one of their loved ones was either dead or stranded in New York City after the attacks while at a candle light vigil, one of them being a relative of mine. Hundreds more first responders are still suffering illnesses caused by the debris of the attacks. So I might be a bit biased here, given my relation to the events.

Justice needed to be served. He needed to be held accountable for the thousands of people killed that day as well as his constituents. There is no statute of limitations nor does this mean less to those people in the New York area just because this is a decade later. The effects of those attacks are still apparent today just as much as the giant hole in the ground left after the wreckage was cleared. Would it have been nice for him to be alive? Maybe. I can't imagine what his trial would actually prove. Any information he may have given would be highly suspect given his current standing in al-Qaeda and short of torture, I doubt he'd be willing to give anything useful (even then, he'd probably just tell us anything we wanted to hear at that point).

This is the end of an era, and yet it's not. It remains to be seen what impact his death will have, considering heightened alert levels in US embassies throughout the world and numerous threats against western nations for attempts on Bin Laden's life. Can I say that I'm glad that his dead? I suppose. Frankly, the kind of mad man that has inspired and orchestrated the deaths of countless innocents for the propagation of his ideology such as him holds no place in the world.

We can recall American involvement with training Osama and his constituents, arming them, and so on. At the end of the day though, this is a man who didn't think twice about killing a child if it meant pleasing his idea of God. I can make several arguments against the execution of someone purely on a revenge standpoint, but there's something so decidedly evil about Bin Laden that it's hard for many people to look at him and say "he shouldn't have been killed." To ask for apathy or malaise over his death is simply asking too much of people, especially those who have actually been touched by what he's done.

If we're lucky, this victory will lead to moving political discussion more onto the domestic front in the United States.

Absolutely yes. This is exactly how I feel about this event. I'm not throwing a party because I'm so happy that Osama is dead, I'm relieved that justice has been served. So many people have been traumatized by the events of 9/11. It's not just the fact that he destroyed the Twin Towers, or that he murdered thousands of people, but he did it in such a dramatic way as to scare and demoralize the country. He really did create terror in his name, and the world is a slightly more peaceful place without him.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
Ugh, there has been a constant stream of assholes on TV who are all like "HES BURNIN IN HELL". Shut the fuck up. Shut up. You are the reason nobody has respect for Christianity. Or America, for that matter.
 

Wolf-Bone

Banned
Banned
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

Those who shake the tree are often laid low by falling coconuts. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Self fulfilling martyrs suck.

Some people have the same compulsion to reject and resist violence and the denial of common decency that others do to encourage and reward them. Yeah, it does suck, because those of us who are like that mostly can realize at least on an intellectual level, indeed, it would be easier to reject everything good and decent and relish in hate, fear and violence. But as someone who's tried it, you might as well ask people like us to breathe on the moon. However...

Even though it may be hard it's worth it in the end. I encourage you all to speak publicly against dehumanizing, relishing in revenge, and violence. You don't have to, but your opinions and your voices matter.

... Yeah, the last do-gooding, longhaired adoptee to try that was born and died trying, and all he got for his efforts was grief, death, and a cult that turned the instrument of his death into a symbol of exaltation that's truly only warranted maybe for something like the Ankh. Yeah, sorry, I need some examples of people like that who don't get crucified, burned at the stake or shot inside their limousine or outside their apartment complex before I'm very enthusiastic about trying to be some kind of advocate for any good cause anywhere it matters...

In b4 wooby starts ranting about slave--



Fuck.

I know, right? It's so fucked up that I just, I don't know, smoke pot, play videogames, listen to 90's rap music and hair metal only 23 hrs out of the day. That extra hour where I'm actually giving a fuck is a real bummer.
 

Zaraphayx

Banned
Banned
This message is lost through dehumanization. A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened. Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.

That was pretty what I was thinking as I watched people scream "AMERICA FUCK YEAH" into news cameras.

And that one was one impressively spaced double post.
 

OssumPawesome

Ossumest Possumest
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

I know, right? It's so fucked up that I just, I don't know, smoke pot, play videogames, listen to 90's rap music and hair metal only 23 hrs out of the day. That extra hour where I'm actually giving a fuck is a real bummer.

What planet are you from where you think people laugh at you because you care?
 

Deo

The hatred of FAF personified
After he deprived so many of their life? *Shakes head* Hun, he was a bad, bad man. And like any bad man, he needed to be dealt with. Some will agree to go quietly, some will stand in defiance to the death. You can rally all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he died the way he lived, violently. He got exactly what he deserved, end of story.
I cannot agree to that. I am sorry, but in absolute honesty I confess that I cannot possibly defend, condone, or accept the idea that death was "deserved" or the best thing in these circumstances. The most realistic, sure, but not the best. Not the best at all.
And we can rave about how evil he is, but genuinely he is still human, no human deserves death. I apologize that I am unable to compromise on this objective moral fact. Though we mete out death as a punishment it is still inherently and morally wrong to kill another person. Yes they killed "us" and "we" killed "them", but in the end it's just people killing people and we shouldn't. I swaer to whatever god or moral tenets you hold, we should not be killing other people.
 

Deo

The hatred of FAF personified
This message is lost through dehumanization. A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened. Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.
I am so saddened that this is so true of human nature. The actions of my peers outside and the arguments about the "human"-ness of "evil" peoples is absolutely sickening to me. I am so completely despondent about such a mentality. I don't even know.
 

Wolf-Bone

Banned
Banned
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

What planet are you from where you think people laugh at you because you care?

The one where they only seem to laugh in a bad way when I actually care. Y'know, it's really sad how fucking predictable a thread about bin Laden's death goes. I saw this coming like pretty much the day after 9/11. He'd eventually be found, most likely be killed, and whatever douchebag forum I'd be wasting valuable time and herb on would talk about the fucking subject for all of 15 minutes tops before they'd focus their thoughts/energy on saying who they really hate more than the man himself - each other.
 

Icky

is the prettiest pony~
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live? What has he done that has affected our world positively?

Anyways, I'll be happily celebrating with friends tomorrow like the evil patriotic barbarian I am :3

He deserved to live because he has a right to. Y'know, that whole "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" deal

Celebrate the fact that Osama can't harm anyone else. That is worth celebrating. Not in the death, but in the lives that were saved because Osama is gone.

Was he really harming anyone? He was an old man hiding in a cave. If anything, terrorists will be even more pissed off that we killed their icon and cause even more violence.

Also your sig about being crucified scares the shit out of me.
 
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Deo

The hatred of FAF personified
Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead

This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live?
No. Don't shift this onto me. Defend your own views. WHY does he deserve to die? I asked you first, and there should be no need to prove to you that people deserve to live. If your revenge and hatred is that great that you are willing to forgo basic tenets of morality (such as people have a right to live) than you need to stop and re-assess yourself. You are in a very very dark state of mind.
 
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