Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in freakout

[Term_the_Schmuck]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

I almost feel sorry for guys that are cut. It was not their choice. It just happened on them.

Don't feel sorry.

Most of us who have bigger things to worry about don't give a shit about an inch or so of skin.

I equate those men who truly take issue with their circumcision as men with way too much time on their hands.

 

[Radiohead]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

>The point

>this thread

 

[Spatel]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Am I the only American female REPULSED by the sight of a guy that is cut?

Uncut dicks are hotter, though I'm not female.

Also I'm cut

 

[CannonFodder]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

>The point

>this thread

How did we end up on cut vs. uncut?

Also I gotta ask how would letting a child chose what gender they want to grow up to be end up messing up a kid? Gender is a societal construct.

 

[Volkodav]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Haha. Clatyon you crack me up to no end.

But seriously, I'd probably ask for a circumcision if I didn't get one. Tube dick looks gross, I'm happy I got one as a baby. ;o

do you want to compare our circumcisions together?

 

[Jashwa]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Gender roles -> Society depicts men as going to work while the woman stays in the kitchen -> Guy accidentally knocks up his girlfriend in college -> guy ends up doing what society depicts as ideal familly.

What does any of that have to do with gender stereotypes as children affecting career fields or the amount of women in engineering? That's a complete non sequitir.

 

[Radiohead]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Gender is a societal construct.

Do you think a baby knows that?

 

[Volkodav]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

How did we end up on cut vs. uncut?

Also I gotta ask how would letting a child chose what gender they want to grow up to be end up messing up a kid? Gender is a societal construct.

It could be damaging to the kid once they hit highschool, because most doctors wouldn't... no... no doctors would give a young teen a sex change... I mean unless it was a medical issue and was needed.

I got no problems with a kid choosing what they want to wear/do/play sports/hang out with boys or girls/etc etc, but I can see why some people may say "it will mess the kid up!" because kids don't really know who they are until later on

 

[Bliss]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

What is wrong with you people wanting to be mutilated? That's gross. :C

 

[CannonFodder]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

It could be damaging to the kid once they hit highschool, because most doctors wouldn't... no... no doctors would give a young teen a sex change... I mean unless it was a medical issue and was needed.

I got no problems with a kid choosing what they want to wear/do/play sports/hang out with boys or girls/etc etc, but I can see why some people may say "it will mess the kid up!" because kids don't really know who they are until later on

Some doctors and therapists don't care, also there is another model for treating gender identity disorder that if you know about can give a shortcut, so it really depends on who is the person.
Some doctors would require months of therapy and/or refuse to sign the paperwork, but some just want to make sure you are sane for the decision.
tl;dr: depends on the doctor.

 

[Roose Hurro]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Some doctors and therapists don't care, also there is another model for treating gender identity disorder that if you know about can give a shortcut, so it really depends on who is the person.
Some doctors would require months of therapy and/or refuse to sign the paperwork, but some just want to make sure you are sane for the decision.
tl;dr: depends on the doctor.

Wanting to be mutilated should automatically put a person on the "insane" side of the ledger.

 

[CannonFodder]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Wanting to be mutilated should automatically put a person on the "insane" side of the ledger.

Some doctors have been known to require as little as three therapist visits.

 

[Roose Hurro]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Some doctors have been known to require as little as three therapist visits.

"Some doctors" need to have their licenses revoked.

 

[Bliss]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

It could be damaging to the kid once they hit highschool, because most doctors wouldn't... no... no doctors would give a young teen a sex change... I mean unless it was a medical issue and was needed.

I got no problems with a kid choosing what they want to wear/do/play sports/hang out with boys or girls/etc etc, but I can see why some people may say "it will mess the kid up!" because kids don't really know who they are until later on

Were you turned gay by your parents failing in parenting?
Why would this kid even consider SRS?

Again /) about that transsexualism... You're born that way baby.
There are biological factors that 'mess you up' in uterus and stuff.
Living in the perceived gender is the only way to make these persons' lives worth living. So many people take their sex for granted.

I see red whenever some 'medical experts' justify waiting for treatments to underaged people by need for them to 'be sure'. Even when it's so damn obvious. The process is considerably harder if started later in life. Common desency to even delay puberty is seen as a choice the person is not ready for.

Dr. Oz made a great episode about it on his show. At last someone doesn't let their biased crap to make people think it as something 'unnatural'.

 

[Atreyu]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

as much as i'm all for gender-fuckery and so on, man is a social animal. you can say 'to hell with all the stereotypes' but, let's face it, none of us will truly ever practice that. that said, this sounds like a good idea in theory and in a perfect world, but much like communism, it just won't work the way its theorized to by those rooting for it.

also lizzie is absolutely right. being transgendered is not something you choose. you are born that way or you're not and srs/hrt is something used for the cases where the person's life would be meaningless and miserable (if not self-terminated) without it. likewise, you can't predict it and simply, as a parent, must keep an open mind when it comes to the wide spectrum of gender/sex/sexuality.

rather than keep the child's gender a secret, why not just be supportive no matter what the child decides? odds are the child will likely decide to identify as their birth-sex. even if they don't, don't you think the kid would appreciate less attention being drawn to them? i think it will be harder for poor Storm to decide who/what he/she is now that so many people are painfully aware of this sensationalized mystery.
if they want the child to choose for themselves, let them live as all the other children first and be individuals later.

 

[Rakuen Growlithe]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

rather than keep the child's gender a secret, why not just be supportive no matter what the child decides? odds are the child will likely decide to identify as their birth-sex. even if they don't, don't you think the kid would appreciate less attention being drawn to them? i think it will be harder for poor Storm to decide who/what he/she is now that so many people are painfully aware of this sensationalized mystery.
if they want the child to choose for themselves, let them live as all the other children first and be individuals later.

It is about being supportive. If they say the child is a boy and he starts wearing dresses then people are going to treat him strangely. By not telling other people they force them to treat him normally. The child still gets to be a child just like everyone else but without the risk of wearing a dress one day and having someone tell him, 'No, boys don't wear that.'

I'm sorry, but there's a lot of decisions that we don't make kids make. Most parents don't let their kids be shut-ins, they throw them outside or get them involved in sports or after school activities instead of letting them sit in front of the TV. They don't let them decide what's for dinner every night. They don't let them choose when to go to bed. Yet somehow they expect this four month old to be able to make a decision on its gender? Or when it's 1? 2? 10?

They don't expect him to make a decision on his or her gender now. They are giving him the chance to grow up without being told who he or she must be. If you tell someone you have a girl baby they will buy pink clothes and dolls. If you tell them you have a boy baby they buy blue clothes and toy guns/cars/tools. That sends a message about what you must be just because of how you were born. It's removing something like peer pressure. It's not about smiling when wearing a dress.

 

[InflatedSnake]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Witterick practices unschooling, an offshoot of home-schooling centred on the belief that learning should be driven by a child’s curiosity. There are no report cards, no textbooks and no tests. For unschoolers, learning is about exploring and asking questions, “not something that happens by rote from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. weekdays in a building with a group of same-age people, planned, implemented and assessed by someone else,” says Witterick. The fringe movement is growing. An unschooling conference in Toronto drew dozens of families last fall.

Oh god...

 

[ramsay_baggins]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

WTF do you even do with it? If I got with a guy, I'd be like, "What am suppose to do with this?" So confuse.

When he gets an erection it rolls back, so it's not like it gets in the way... It's just normal and plays a part in protecting the head when not erect *shrug*

Personally I find circumcision pretty disgusting. It's just wrong in my mind x_x



As for the unschooling - it's the part I have most trouble with in this. They need to be taught the basics. It's not like you can't make it fun for them to learn, it doesn't have to be a chore.

 

[Uro]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Well, first off, this ISN'T the first time this kinda bullshit happened. Ah, some other couple a long time ago had a boy who had a little TOO much snipped during circumcision. It was suggested that they raise the boy as a girl, and they did. Dresses, dolls, etc. And for the longest time, they raised him as a girl.

Well, they eventually told him the truth when he was old enough, and he more or less immediately switched to a male persona. He got a bit of surgery to get back some of his have-not, got married, and had a kid even (i think).

And then he committed suicide.

Oh, here's a couple links. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/may/04051010

So yeah, bullying may be the least of the worries here.

Wish I found this earlier, but you're comparing two entirely different situations. In one the parents are letting the child decide what gender he wants to go with. They aren't trying to change his sex, they are letting the child do what they feel is comfortable with them.

The situation you're referring to with Dr. Money who claimed that children could be raised purely on nurture and disregarded nature. He told the parents to remove what was left of the childs penis and raise him as a female. Throughout that persons life he acted as a male despite efforts by his parents and doctors. Clearly the child was confused and had no say in what happened to him.

So again, the difference between to two situations is vast. On one had the parents are allowing the child to choose their gender roles (not the same as biological sex). Whereas in the other case, the child went through a traumatic experience and was deceived into believing he was female when the signs clearly showed he didn't feel that way.

 

[CannonFodder]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

It is about being supportive. If they say the child is a boy and he starts wearing dresses then people are going to treat him strangely. By not telling other people they force them to treat him normally. The child still gets to be a child just like everyone else but without the risk of wearing a dress one day and having someone tell him, 'No, boys don't wear that.'

They don't expect him to make a decision on his or her gender now. They are giving him the chance to grow up without being told who he or she must be. If you tell someone you have a girl baby they will buy pink clothes and dolls. If you tell them you have a boy baby they buy blue clothes and toy guns/cars/tools. That sends a message about what you must be just because of how you were born. It's removing something like peer pressure. It's not about smiling when wearing a dress.

For once I agree, I keep seeing the argument, "let the kid chose when he grows up", but in reality that is exactly what they are doing.
If a child is bought dolls, dresses and that and is taught to act like a girl, then they will grow up acting like a girl.
If a child is bought hot wheels, transformers toys, taught to play football then they will grow up acting like a boy.
The argument, "this will fuck up the child's head" is invalid because in all likelyhood storm will chose the gender of what sex he was born with. It's not like they are teaching a boy to be a girl, or teaching a girl to be a boy. All they are doing is not teaching Storm to act one preconceived societal construct's narrow range of deemed acceptable behavioural norm.

 

[Volkodav]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

Some doctors have been known to require as little as three therapist visits.

I don't think a doctor is going to give a sex change to a 15 year old 'cause they want to be the opposite gender is all I'm saying.

Were you turned gay by your parents failing in parenting?
Why would this kid even consider SRS?

Again /) about that transsexualism... You're born that way baby.
There are biological factors that 'mess you up' in uterus and stuff.
Living in the perceived gender is the only way to make these persons' lives worth living. So many people take their sex for granted.

I see red whenever some 'medical experts' justify waiting for treatments to underaged people by need for them to 'be sure'. Even when it's so damn obvious. The process is considerably harder if started later in life. Common desency to even delay puberty is seen as a choice the person is not ready for.

Dr. Oz made a great episode about it on his show. At last someone doesn't let their biased crap to make people think it as something 'unnatural'.

Mm I don't see your point. Are you implying that I think transexualism doesn't happen when the kid is really young? I think of it as the same dealio as being gay or lesbian, it happens when you're a wee babby and you can't be "turned" gay by your parents.

Giving a sex change to a 13 y.o is disgusting. It's ridiculous. That's a life changing decision they would be making.

 

[Heimdal]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

The people supporting this way of raising the kid also say gender is a social construct. Doesn't that strike you as a problem? It's learned, but theyre not being taught. You don't think that whatever gender identity they come up with on their own just isn't going to fit into the rest of society right? That's really the problem in this. I doubt that only biological women wear dresses, I would think that 'weirdos who wear dresses' also wear dresses.

 

[CannonFodder]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

The people supporting this way of raising the kid also say gender is a social construct. Doesn't that strike you as a problem? It's learned, but theyre not being taught. You don't think that whatever gender identity they come up with on their own just isn't going to fit into the rest of society right? That's really the problem in this. I doubt that only biological women wear dresses, I would think that 'weirdos who wear dresses' also wear dresses.

And what is wrong with someone not fitting into what society deems as "normal"?
To use a analogy, by your logic gays should just act straight cause they don't "fit into the rest of society".

 

[Volkodav]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

And what is wrong with someone not fitting into what society deems as "normal"?
To use a analogy, by your logic gays should just act straight cause they don't "fit into the rest of society".

Straights don't get the shit beat out of them and even killed for being straight, do they?

That's why.

 

[Heimdal]

Re: Parents try to raise kid contrary to gender roles, media flips their shit in frea

And what is wrong with someone not fitting into what society deems as "normal"?
To use a analogy, by your logic gays should just act straight cause they don't "fit into the rest of society".

Clayton said it pretty good.

However, I'm not condoning that kind of discrimination. What I am saying is that Storm isn't being raised into a world that's going to immediately accept all the weird antics he is being allowed to develop. That's something that good parents should want to prepare you for.

Also note that homosexuality has always been very prevalent in society, and yet is far less blatant than "wearing a dress." As well, isn't the latter one learned? That's a big difference. Better analogy: girly man enters a rough biker bar, who's responsibility is it to adapt?