Personal finances: The thread

[Yakamaru]

Knowing how to handle money is an important aspect to having financial freedom and economical room to maneuver. Long-term planning in particular plays an important if not a vital role in one's financial freedom and well-being. This opening post to this topic won't be excruciatingly long and won't be going into super details, but more meant as an introduction to the topic itself to hopefully start a conversation surrounding this subject.

This thread is for the discussion surrounding personal economy and private finances as well as various ideas and perspectives on how to deal with budgeting, debt, etc. Keep in mind the forum's no politics rules, be civil.

First pointer: Avoid debt if possible
"The most important thing to do if you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging." - Warren Buffett

This one shouldn't be much of a surprise for those of us who have had to deal with debts looming over our heads for extended periods and know how much pain it can cause in the long-term, not to mention how much potential it have in restraining people. Taking up a loan sure looks good in the short-term, but in the long-term you are going to hurt the more debt you have and accrue. You will have less economical maneuvering space, and can at some point end up with no maneuvering space at all, having tied your own hands behind your back as a result. Debt is a downwards spiral that often leads to financial ruin, so you must be extra cautious about taking on any debt.

Debt will have to be paid back at some point. Question is, are you prepared to pay it back when you need to?

Second pointer: Think and plan long-term
"Financial planning and discipline is key to one's financial freedom." - Kishorkumar Balpalli
"Budgeting has only one rule: Do not go over budget." - Leslie Tayne

How much are you spending on luxuries?
Which luxuries can you reduce spending on or possibly drop entirely?
Can you reduce the price of your phone plan?
How much can you set as a goal to save up every month?
Buy things on sale?
Do you really need that new phone?
Are you aware of how you are spending, and on what?
Spontaneous/random spending?

These are some(among hundreds) of the questions one should ask oneself if you intend to being in control of your own finances and personal economy. Knowing how much you spend and where you spend it and if you even should spend it is important for financial well-being. Knowing how to plan ahead is important, just as being aware of your own habits, both good and bad alike.

So, how do you organize your personal economy/finances? Do you have a strict budget? Feel free to go into as much or as little detail as possible.

 

[TyraWadman]

I calculate my rent, bills and other necessities and subtract it from my income. I never spend anything extra until I've secured it. I have a phone for the bare minimum talk and text and no car. So it's just phone bill and rent, really.

Other things I live by:

No credit cards:
If you can't afford it now, you can't afford it later. You will end up paying back MORE than what it initially cost. If someone offers you a credit card at a dentist, they're already overcharging you to pressure you into getting it, because THEY ALSO get a commission from every person that signs up from it. Fuck those people. That includes places like Wal-Mart and any other grocery store pandering one. They're not their to help you, it's just so they get extra cash.

Public Transit:
Walking sucks ass sometimes and the bus schedules are even more ass, but you're typically paying $100 or less a month, whereas owning a car would cost fuel, insurance and regular maintenance. The only upside to keeping one is that it MAY increase your job opportunities, depending where you live. Whether or not the paying wage is enough to continue afford it, is the next problem.

Luxury Spending vs Necessities:
If you are just learning to budget, or need to start saving pennies, review your bank history and what you bought that was luxury vs necessity. Guaranteed, most people spend WAY MORE money than they need on collectables and takeout food. Buying food in bulk and portioning properly is always cheaper and healthier. Also be mindful of odd habits like shopping/eating when you're bored.

If you are struggling and trying to get by:
Buy the food based on quantity and quality. I'm not saying buy $5 produce, I'm saying avoid foods that have FILLER. Most prepackaged meats, bread and even junkfood will have it. There's nothing worse than eating and still feeling hungry afterwards. Buy what you can get the most of like Pasta, rice, canned veggies. Always keep up on sales! Check for stores that put their stuff at %50 off when they don't sell. Make multiple trips a week if you have to. Pick up every coin you see on the ground. Look for local YMCA's or somewhere they allow free showers and of course homeless shelters/income assistance locations. Library's have free computer use. NEVER FEEL ASHAMED OR AFRAID TO ASK FOR HELP. NOT EVERYONE MIGHT WANT TO HELP YOU BUT SOMEONE MIGHT BE ABLE TO POINT YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. (this is also equally useful if you just wanna save up without becoming a total cheapskate)

 

[Firuthi Dragovic]

I'll get to most of this later, but right now what I'll say for sure is this:

I don't have a whole lot of bills, trying to change my worse habits is simply not something I can pull off at this time, mine is an area where having my own vehicle is mandatory, and I prefer to pay bills immediately rather than wait even a day. And I'm one of probably a tiny handful of people for whom buying food in bulk is actually a really, REALLY bad idea.

And I'm in a position where squirreling away money in multiple accounts for an emergency fund is almost mandatory.

AND I may very well be in one of the few places where buying is cheaper than renting for the sake of monthly payments - I'll have to check all the insurances/utilities/taxes/etc., but I definitely did plan on moving in the next couple years and whatever location I pick I plan to stay a while.

 

[Astus]

Things I've always tried to do and has worked out so far

1. Don't have any debt.
I always make sure if I buy something, I have the money to pay it off right away. This especially works for my credit card which I get cash back on. I basically get money back for buying things with money I already have. Sometimes this cannot be avoided, like student loans, in which case I always try to pay off more of the higher interest payments first so you aren't paying back extra.

2. Save your money
I try to save at least 75% of my money when possible. This means that after bills and everything else, I put away 75% of my money. Sometimes this will change depending if I really want something and I deserve to treat myself... But it has helped me get some savings so far.

3. Think with the end in mind
If you can get an IRA/401k or something similar, start putting money in ASAP (or just savings account that you will never touch). It may be a long ways away, but you are going to want to retire. You need money for that, it's expensive to live. Make sure you have enough being put away to ensure you can actually retire.

4. If possible/you have experience invest some of your money
Bank interests rates are terrible. 0.02% at most banks per year is all you get. I have made myself a little more savvy to stock market ideas and I'm making 8% or so off of my money a year. Be prepared to lose this money however; make sure you always have something to back you up incase you lose everything. I put around 5-10% of my money into stocks and let it work for me.

5. When your passive income pays your overhead, you're rich
If your investments pay for your cost of living, you're doing the right thing. It could be from the stock market, or other forms of passive income like owning rental property. You usually have to work to get this sort of thing... But this is essentially how rich people stay rich and get richer. Always be careful with investing however... There's a reason it has a higher payout.. and that's because it's more risky. Like owning a business vs being an employee; you have more to lose as a business owner than and employee, which is why employees are often paid much less than a company will make, because they have job security

That's all I got for now, hope it possibly can help someone...

And please note, I am not giving any particular person financial advice or advice on investing; these are just personal guidelines I follow. Do not take anything I say as practical advice on stock market, investing, or any other form of investment that will lose you money or has risk. It's all theories I have developed for myself

 

[Kumali]

"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone." - Henry David Thoreau

 

[MaelstromEyre]

I always think I'm going to get my finances sorted out. . .but I have horses, and they're a money pit. . .I finally had a well paying job and found out I'm losing it at the end of the year because they're moving production to another location. . .ugh.

 

[Yakamaru]

Thanks for the replies so far, I appreciate it.

As have been mentioned several times, don't go into debt unless you can avoid it. I've been 100% debt-free since Summer last year and it's doing wonders for my future/long-term planning. It's made it very easy for me to budget every month. When I get my vacation pay and tax returns this Summer I will be sitting on roughly $35,000-36,000 saved up since May 2019. This of course have been converted from Norwegian Kroner to make it a bit easier to understand, though do keep in mind that we earn decently more over here. I earn about $28.5 an hour roughly converted, so I earn quite decently with my current job.

I make sure all expenditures are taken care of such as rent and bills, something of which isn't exactly much of an issue with the wages I have(and there's been a fuckton of overtime these past 3 months as well, something of which adds quite a lot to my earnings). I always put aside at bare minimum $1200-1300 a month that I shove into either a savings account or use to invest into things like cryptocurrency, stocks, shares, etc. So far I've made quite the profit off of it all, and there will be a lot more profit to be made in the future. Apart from the mandatory expenditures and saving plans, I leave a lot of room for various spontaneous and/or necessary expenditures such as food, driving lessons, potential doctor's appointments, monthly bus and/or train , +++.

I'm quite pleased with these plans, though should probably reduce my random expenditures such as buying too much ice cream, candy, soda, etc.

 

[TyraWadman]

I always put aside at bare minimum $1200-1300 a month

.........
ITS TIME TO REBEL AND REMAKE THE SYSTEM

 

[Netanye Dakabi]

I'm living in a farm house cellar with the entire population of a former tourism-based town.

it's fair to say i've got no money.

if one of us gets a bad case of flu we're fucked.

 

[rekcerW]

i had some pretty good savings, but then covid kinda threw a wrench into everything. was out of work for ~4 months. didn't default on my mortgage which is pretty decent, though.

gradually working my way back out of the hole. i make pretty decent money, so shouldn't take long if i just don't spend like an idiot.

 

[Glossolalia]

I'm not financially savvy, but I'm an instinctually frugal person. I buy secondhand whenever I can, I keep clothes until they wear out, the main staples of my diet are beans, rice, bread and frozen veggies. My main hobby, multimedia art, requires a lot of materials, but I pick them up gradually and horde them when I find a good deal. I've worked a handful of minimum wage jobs, with stretches of unemployment in between that most people would consider worryingly long. I definitely wouldn't describe myself as "good with money", spending it just doesn't come naturally to me.

 

[Firuthi Dragovic]

Okay, for realsies this time:

My immediate family's generally been stingy with money. I had a few nice things growing up but never "all the latest". No, not even with computers - it wasn't until I started getting my own work that I could have decent graphics cards.

As a result of that, I'm generally more substance than style when it comes to shopping in the first place and I'm VERY used to hand-me-down equipment. Thing is... only reason I'm good with money beyond that point is because I'm WAY behind on developing independence compared to the usual. I've blown through emergency funds multiple times.

The living arrangement I have specifies that my student loan payment (my main recurring bill - I think the only other bill I pay is car insurance) is effectively my rent - and that got suspended with this whole pandemic thing, so I've been hoarding money in an effort to put that requirement to rest for good. At which point, I will be focused on both retirement savings and the down payment for a house for when I finally move out. (They've been trying to push me to rent a house first - not happening in this area or the current market.)

I've actually been using this opportunity to get more of the things I want, expecting to have less chance of that when I move.

Retirement-wise, I'm probably going to find a bunch of index funds and a few stocks that are really low, throw in money once a month, check it twice a month and that's IT. I will not minmax money as I remember from the Gamestop experience that I get way too anxious if I'm watching the market all the time.

(This also means my budget is not as strict as it probably should be.)

If anyone wants to ask me anything specific about finances to guide this conversation feel free.

 

[Kinare]

I was raised not allowed to have anything I wanted. My brothers and I rarely got an allowance, instead my brother would "work for an item he wanted" - which generally meant helping my dad for an hour or so and then dad would go buy him what he wanted, expense didn't matter much. The same offer was not true for me because I didn't know how to milk it properly. Because of this, I didn't learn money management early on, and it shows.

As soon as I turned 18, I got what I wanted, and then some. Little did I know then, but those actions would fuck me for the next 14 years. I barely paid anything on those debts because I barely made any money working 20-30hrs a week at $7.45/hr. The only debt I have consistently paid on is my student loan, and the only reason I didn't also let that go into default like the rest was because my dad would have gotten stuck with the bill and his credit score ruined if he didn't pay in time. Last year the credit bureaus forgot about my delinquent debts and my credit score has returned to a normie state, just in time for my move back home where I racked up another pile of debt thanks to moving expenses and... well, let's be honest, not all of that was moving expenses.

To this day my spending habits are still really garbage. It's gotten worse since I moved home because I do have extra money now, but instead of putting that money aside, I spend much of it. I had to budget hard when I was out on my own to make sure I made rent and such, which left very little spending money, so now that I have wiggle room my old awful habits are coming back up - I want, therefor I will get if the funds are there. I always find a way to justify a purchase I really, really want. Then when something major comes up that I really need money for, like before when my cat needed surgery or my own health I'd like to get checked out, I can't foot the bill.

That said, spending habits aren't my only issue. I still barely make above minimum wage and have no benefits at my job. I could probably safely put away like $50 a month, but that seems like such a small number compared to what I need for my goals, so I self-defeat and just spend it because the things I get with it makes me happy briefly. :v See, I know my spending habits are bad, but until I actually get a job I can truly live on it feels like it doesn't matter much. After a year that's only $600 I'd have sitting there. That's practically nothing. That's not even a month of rent + utilities.

Right now, I think I'm better off using extra money to put towards my debts so I can have more breathing room when I eventually can move out again, which is what I have been doing with what I don't spend. Goal is debt free in 5 years, and I'm on the right track to that or sooner, but I still need to secure a better career path to be financially stable because even being completely debt free I just don't make enough to pay the cheapest possible rent+utilities and buy my own health insurance.

 

[Deleted member 93706]

I was raised to be fiscally conservative, and I am very much that.

 

[Deleted member 127940]

I've maintained roughly the same monthly budget since late 2019 when I began working at my current job for a paltry 9 dollars per hour. I've gained three pay raises since then, two position advancements, and learned to sell our product better, netting even more money. I now make 18.50/hr equivalent in Texas. With overtime, the four to five additional paychecks that weekly-paid workers receive every year, the small dividends that I make from my various investments, and tips from customers, I make between 35k-40k gross/year.

My budget at the moment is about 1100 dollars/month. I save between 55 and 60 percent of my income.

• 470 dollars base rent/utilities
• 200 dollars a month for food
• 100 dollars for gas
• 89 dollars for car insurance
• 136 dollars for health insurance
• 9 for my Crunchyroll subscription
• 10 for my Discord nitro subscription
• 13 for my Amazon prime subscription
• 60 dollars for my phone bill

Fun fact: If I did not have a car, if I spent 100 dollars/month less on food, if I downgraded my phone bill from 55 dollars/month to 10 dollars/month, and if I reduced my health financing costs from 134 dollars/month to 100 dollars/month, I would be living off of 727 dollars/month (or 8,724 dollars/year). This would be 1,024 dollars more than the 7,700 dollars/year that Jacob Lund Fisker, author of the book Early Retirement Extreme: A Philosophical and Practical Guide to Financial Independence (and arguably the grandfather of the FIRE movement itself), lives off of.

Hell, if I just shaved 45 dollars off of my insurance payment, 50 dollars off of my phone bill, 100 dollars off of my monthly food bill, and 36 dollars off of my insurance bill, I'd save 2,772 dollars/year, increasing my savings rate to 65%. Ditching the car altogether pushes it to 70%.

A few reoccurring monthly additions and deductions have come into effect between 2019 and now.

Additions:

1) I became debt-free in the later half of 2020. This freed up 204 dollars/month (119 dollars/month for a bank loan repayment, 35 dollars/month for one credit card, and 50 dollars/month for another credit card).

2) Retaining a clean record driving record, increasing my credit score from the mid-500s to the mid 700s (this happened shortly after the aforementioned debts were reported as having been paid in full on my credit report), getting past age 25, and switching car insurance companies reduced my monthly car insurance premium from 119 dollars/month to a current 89, resulting in 30 dollars/month saved. I would be paying 35 to 45 dollars/month if I had a more modern vehicle that possessed more advanced safety features and that wasn't a two-door coupe.

3) Base rent went down from 515 dollars/month to 425 dollars/month when I signed a 12-month lease instead of a 6-month lease. Utility cost range (35 to 40 dollars/month) did not change. 110 dollars/month saved.

Total additions: 324 dollars/month (or 3,888 dollars/year.) If this figure were converted to represent a weekly paycheck obtained from a job, this would equate to circa 2.05 dollars/hour (or the equivalent of me taking up a part-time position at a McDonald's franchise restaurant for ten hours/week at roughly 8 dollars/hour). It would also represent a two dollar raise over the 9 dollars/hour that I was making when I first took this job and formulated this budget.

Deductions:

1) I gained health insurance coverage. 136 dollars/month.

Note: I'm currently researching ways on how to reduce this expense while simultaneously increasing the quality of the effect that this product and its related services provide. Direct primary care plans, shared healthcare plans, or HSA + high-deductible insurance package combinations (these have been possibly rendered obsolete by ACA plan) may be options.

2) Monthly fuel costs have doubled due to a job location change. Up from 50 dollars/month to a whopping 100 dollars/month.

Total deductions: 234

Net adjustments: 88 dollars/month, 1,056 dollars/year, or 0.55 dollars/hour.

Ramblings and possible questions people may have for me:

1) "How the hell are you saving almost 60 percent of your income while only making 30,000 dollars/year after-tax?"

• I live in an area with a sensible COL.
• I don't have any children.
• There are no "human financial outlets" (mooching family members/money pit significant others/dating) eating at my budget.
• I try not to spend money on things with low ROIs or low resale value. I'll happily purchase 800 dollars worth of FSKAX but my heart would skip a beat if someone told me to drop 800 dollars on a cellphone. The former would appreciate in value to about 1,070 dollars within 5 years assuming a 6 percent annual return rate. The latter becomes an outdated 100 dollar refurbished potato on Ebay within the same amount of time.
• I don't do debt.

Car debt, student loan debt, and credit card debt are the "Three Sirens" of the average man and woman's financial world, destroying their wealth-building capacity gradually through interest accumulation and late fees. Every dollar that they pay to one or more members of this diabolical trio is another dollar that cannot go towards investments or a retirement savings account. Particularly cash-strapped and desperate Americans will find themselves turning to the various shit-tier money institutions that comprise the poverty industry for temporary financial relief, but these alternative financial services (title loan places, payday loan places, etc) often have some of the highest interest rates and late fees ever seen.

Also, I believe that money is a measure of time. Time is the single most valuable finite resource in the universe. You cannot get more of it than what you've already been allotted, there are no refunds on it, and you can have your entire time balance reduced to 0 with little or no warning (you die prematurely). Yet it is critically undervalued by the lion's share of people---so much so that many average Americans give away oodles of their time to parasitic financial institutions, useless people, and useless causes for social recognition points.

I value watching my accounts grow over buying junk and impressing random nobodies.

2) "Are you able to contribute to any retirement accounts or investment portfolios despite making so little?"

Yes. I contribute 6,000 dollars/year to a traditional IRA, 10,000 dollars to standard passive investment vehicles per year (ETFs and index funds along a 70/30 domestic/international split) and another 3,000 to 4,000 dollars to other misc investment (either crypto, more ETF and index fund shares, or just general savings).

 

[AppleButt]

Living with my parents saves me a lot of money.

 

[Stray Cat Terry]

Not gonna lie, I sense this thread is one of the most helpful in terms of dealing with reality. OwO
Relating the OP's statements to my experiences, I can never agree more!

Lemme begin then!
I tend to get bonus cash from whatever sources possible. Call me fortunate or sly, whatever. Anyways, thanks to this, I can manage to spend as additional boosts for both my essentials and luxuries. ($200 prop guns, cute outfits and videogame microtransactions every couple of months won't hurt, right? OwO)
The con, however, is that I can't plan too grand on spending anything, of course.(Unless I take it slow, and I mean slow slow!) But that's okay, it's still always enough to take care of the vitals. UwU

In fact, I'm rather a minimalist compared to most people around in relevant economical regions. The key is to spend the least while gaining the most out of what I spend, and I assume my lifestyle is never compatible to most people around. In short--I'd rather save more than to work harder. Working hard for more advantages is just not my taste, it just ruins all the fun in life! ÒnÓ

What do we live for, under this uneasy society? Answers shall vary, but in my case--I live for bliss. The refreshment, the catharsis.
For example, encountering street cats and staying with them alone makes me feel being healed. And perhaps buy a few ham pieces to share? It's not a big deal on spending my money, yet I gain far more than that doing so.
And not to mention the cats(same goes for any animals) are incomparably the better beings to accompany with than most human beings I met throughout my life, even though they never speak 'Humanese'.

The 'unconventional' mental well-being method asides, the budget thing... As I stated earlier, I can never plan and act beyond what I can afford. And thanks to some people I know who had either been fooled or stepped in themselves into debts, I'm conveniently and constantly being reminded that I should keep doing how I do.

Apart from the debt thing, there's something similar--lending someone your money.
Hell, this is the last thing you're gonna do with your money besides paying debts, unless you're perfectly fine on losing what you lend them.

Firstly, who you're lending it to doesn't matter, they aren't you, and they are neither god nor softwares. You don't even know what'll happen to yourself, hence them!
I also did lend money to my friends a few times, but hey, what if my friend gets scammed, robbed, lost or whatever? Guess what, they happened.
So, the rule of thumb is, always consider the money you lend others gone, no returns. That way, you'll never suffer from other's fault. It'll be extraordinarily infuriating if it happens.

Secondly and lastly, you never know who you're dealing with. Even your family can throw you away like an old shoe (No..? it happened to me anyways), why wouldn't everyone else be so as well?
Unfortunately, we ain't psychics nor gods. We'll never know someone's true intentions. (We don't have to be wary against everyone all the time, however. As long as the interaction and things involved are within manageable range) This fact alone can involve various circumstances, but I'll get back to the money side for now.
So, since that, and again, gotta make sure you won't get disadvantageously impacted or further get your life ruined even under the worst scenario--consider the money gone, or simply never lend them money.
And again, a friend of mine provided me the perfect example what can go wrong if one lends money to a friend(who even was known to be faithful), while the initial owner of that money also needs that money in time. It went horribly wrong.

Well... guess that's all!
Save strategically, use strategically, and always keep enough margin for both your usual supplies and the plan B. That's how I manage my finance.

While that's that, I can't condifently say I'm rich, while I do donations sometimes though >p<

...But I'm never poor with my strategical mindset aiding me UwU

 

[wolf001]

Great tips for those who find themselves in a difficult financial situation right now. Warren Buffett quite accurately said, "The most important thing to do if you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging." Many people continue to behave as if they have a couple of million bucks lying around somewhere while not thinking about the future. I learned how to plan my budget and keep records of income and expenses just a few years ago. It helps to see your financial picture more accurately and understand where you need to move. I also started using online manual accounting, which I found here playlouder.com, to make it easier to allocate the budget and not waste time. I advise everyone to start doing the same. Good luck and financial independence to everyone!

 

[Rimna]

Just cos I don't feel like quoting the first post....

"The most important thing to do if you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging." - Warren Buffett - He clearly hasn't played enough Terraria to know that you can dig more to find greater treasures.

But anyway, I live in the poorest country from the EU. There's not a whole lot of room for any savings or "financial plans" as long as I"m working for someone else. Speaking in numbers, I made 500 euros per month at my old job. 310-350 of that would be spent on the day I got the salary - rent, bills, classes. With the rest, I'd have to make it till next month. I'm talking food, transportation, going out and socializing with people, getting stuff for entertainment. And mind you - this is considered a higher than average salary for the town I worked in.

There isn't a whole lot you can do with less than 200 euros per month no matter how you cut it. Medical emergency? Well tough luck.

My current situation is better in terms of money. But as long as I'm working a job, I'll be piss-poor till my last days. That's how things are around here.

 

[Wodenofthegays]

A lot of the advice here is coming from admirers of Warren Buffett, the man who made so much money by brilliantly being born into most of it. I think its kind of absurd assuming most people on the internet, let alone people in the U.S., are born into anything nearing that. Seeing as how the median U.S. household barely makes as much as Yakamaru, over 10% of workers in the U.S. experience some degree of wage theft, and over 10% of those in the U.S. face food insecurity, I'll give some tips and resources directed at those in the U.S. that might not have money to do the things Buffett does:

• Lifeline - If you make less than 135% of the Federal Poverty Guidlines total in your household, are on benefits like SNAP or Medicaid, or take part in tribal benefit programs, you can qualify for assistance with internet and may be able to get phone service for free. If you live in California, Oregon, or Texas, the process appears to be different. Phone and internet are necessities in the modern day and this is a great way to cut down the cost of that.
  • If you are your own household, that income threshold is $17,388. The median for 1 income households is pretty close, so you probably qualify.
• Food Pantries - There are a lot more food pantries than you think in the U.S., and they're meant to serve you, not some nebulous person who "actually" needs it. If you're struggling to pull together money to pay for food, let alone save, use them. Don't let yourself go hungry for money, please. I linked a small aggregate site for them, but check your local university and check with your local government if you can't find anything there. Save that, Food not bombs pops up a lot in big cities if you can catch 'em.
• NLRB - You can't save money if your employer doesn't pay you enough to save. In the U.S., you have the right to talk about that with your coworkers, unions, and your employer. Its your right by law, and the NLRB is there to protect it. No matter your political affiliation, under the NLRA, you have the right to organize with your coworkers to better your working conditions. In case that's not clear, if you are a U.S. citizen, you have the right to:
  • organize a union,
  • form, join, or assist a union,
  • bargain collectively through representatives,
  • discuss your wages and benefits or union organizing with your co-workers,
  • strike or picket (depending), and
  • choose not to do any of that at your own discretion.
• FLSA - Again, you can't make good financial decisions if they're being made for you. If you think your employer is not paying you enough or they are outright stealing from you, report it. At any time, over 10% of workers in the U.S. face wage theft, and as much as $8 billion dollars gets tied up in it, so it is without a doubt that there are multiple people on this forum that U.S. labor law can help financially in this respect. I'd recommend everyone generally cross-check their stubs, but we've all been taught to trust our employers on their end of the financial bargain so I don't blame anybody for failing to do so.

I'll throw in some more tips and resources later, especially some tips and resources for finding and saving money on shelter and housing, but those hit the other big financial hardships that people in the U.S. usually report. Right now I've gotta go to bed lmao

 

[Firuthi Dragovic]

I'll throw in some more tips and resources later, especially some tips and resources for finding and saving money on shelter and housing, but those hit the other big financial hardships that people in the U.S. usually report.

See if you can find out about government-backed home loans in particular.

A lot of people seem to believe that they must rent and can never afford a home - not understanding there are places where a mortgage is cheaper than rent even after added expenses like personal transportation and having to pay your own utilities are taken into account. And if you're going to tell me "but those require down payments" that is EXACTLY why I mention government-backed loans - because that was what popped up when I looked for home loans without a down payment.

 

[PLEASE DELETE ACCOUNT]

See if you can find out about government-backed home loans in particular.

A lot of people seem to believe that they must rent and can never afford a home - not understanding there are places where a mortgage is cheaper than rent even after added expenses like personal transportation and having to pay your own utilities are taken into account. And if you're going to tell me "but those require down payments" that is EXACTLY why I mention government-backed loans - because that was what popped up when I looked for home loans without a down payment.

I live in one of these places. I actually cannot afford to live in the city I work for: rent is simply not viable for people not making possibly double the median income (im talking supposed "affordable" complexes being upwards of 1800-2000 a month for essentially a loft above an old cigar factory, homes are 500k+ in condemned unlivable condition) I will never earn enough in my current role to actually live in the city proper.

Move about 15 miles away and the rent drops barely to maybe 1500-1700, but home prices drop like a rock. 1950's built ranches can be had for 150-200k, which puts your mortgage at 550-780 ranges, + toss in your homeowners insurance most loans require + amortize your taxes and you come in at maybe 660-900 a month. Renting if you plan on staying more than about 18 months is not economically viable...

But as you said, many people just look at rent because we have been conditioned to...Some of us lived in cars, lived in section 8, and pinched dimes to get 11 pennies if we had to, when our parents were coming up renting was often more economical, and their lessons do shape us and all that jazz.

So, how do you organize your personal economy/finances? Do you have a strict budget? Feel free to go into as much or as little detail as possible.

I only really count after I got a "real" job working for the Navy/DoD. Since before then I floated around, I did what I had to do to have a roof and not much more than that. Its rude and crude, but turning tricks can keep you out of the cold... And when I lived just outside of the redlake res sometimes in a car, and sometimes in section 8, it got damn cold - and I don't care what movies say: "the church" will NOT take you in, nor care for you. Forget fake it till you make it, shake it till you make it pays a lot better.

This point in my life, instilled a thriftyness or cheapness that never left me, which is why I mention it.

Roughly speaking I make about 3k take home per month, which is less than I used to with the Navy and DoD.
I make more, but taxes + I put 9% of my pay into 401k I do not count to my income budget. I will die before I am able to collect on it, but my wife can then inherit it as its a joint owned account. If I die on the job she then gets a large pay out, and If its an exceptionally gruesome death the payout is multiplied ( I carry a lot of life insurance through work since its only about 12 dollars a month). I am not a cop, but in states of emergency I am required by my job to remain behind - hurricane, tornado, earthquake, etc.

*770 goes to home payments.
*48 is water and sewer there about since we almost never exceed the base units of water you get with service connection fees
*68 is electrical (this is my monthy average, I only pay the connection fee during spring and fall, but pay a lot in the summer)
*150 goes to food
*internet + phone is 100 even (4g home internet+Unlimited on the phone)
*50 or so goes to fuel.
* 37 dollars a month for car insurance (I only carry property and liability, I do not carry collision/repair in my car beyond the minimum) This is low because I pay biannually in lump, and I own an old car that was paid off decades ago)
maybe 150 in incidentals, gifts, extras, needs, or wants per month.

So lets say I spend 1500 of that 3k each month.
The rest goes into savings, in case I get hurt, or something happens, so we can get by for a while. (my wife does freelance art, and odd jobs, Hourly I am sure she makes more than me - its just hard for her to keep up hours and it comes in spurts. She may get 10 clients in a week, and she may go 2 months without a bite)

I do not really replace things unless they are broken. I do not have anything new. My car is verging on 40 years old now. In 2009 my desktop PC was 25mhz with 6MB of ram. My hob is from the 1960's, our printers are from 1997 and 1999. I just cannot bring myself to get rid of things that work for some reason that just seams really wasteful to me. I do not mind buying quality, or paying more for it as it often saves you money long term, but I also don't pay full price : I can buy an old model, I can buy used for many things. Maybe I am just cheap.

 

[Rimna]

I also see no debt/no credit cards mentioned as advice but a lot of businesses, especially small start-up ones, need and rely on credits in order to make it. How else do you find a 5 or 6 figure sum of money to start up your own thing? Especially in a country like mine where the average salary is roughly 550-600 euros per month but that applies only for the capital city. For example, in my home town, the average monthly wage is sub 300 euros per month.

Most of the "luxury" items I bought were purchased on a 3 to 6 month payment plans with 0% interest, since stores offer this option in partnership with banks. For example, I love watches and it brings me great joy when I get a model that I've been wanting to. When I wear it, it makes me feel good. Most of the timepieces I have are about 150-170 euros, and all of them were paid off for 6 months. I have a total of 6, 2 I bought 10 years ago, the other 4 I got in the last 4 years. So it's not like I spend all my money on watches.

I had to take a loan to get one tooth fixed because that thing costed 1000 euros in total. That's how much a good quality crown costs - more than 3 times the monthly salary of my home town.

So if there's anyone who has advice on how I can get out of this nightmare, please do share. As long as it doesn't include "move to a better country" or "learn programming/become a lawyer/doctor/engineer". I have tried the whole "better country" thing and programming, medicine and law are something that I can't learn. I mean, even if I wanted to, I can't afford a new degree now. That said, I am studying German using Duolingo every day, anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour. There are no courses for German in my home town so I can't sign up for one.
The reason I'm learning this language specifically is because when it comes to customer service jobs, or any office job really, German is the most sought and highest paying language. For example, in the same company, a position with only English pays 1000 eur/month, while with German + English it's 1800 eur/month for the exact same position.

 

[contemplationistwolf]

I'm in a pretty privileged spot in life right now. I get to live in a super-modern and comfy 700 sqft apartment within a walking distance of my workplace and all anemities and still have around 2100$ a month left over to go into my savings after all taxes and living expenses. And, that's just my base salary, I get a good stock options package on top of that, and quite a few software engineers in my region have gotten wealthy through such packages (though that depends entirely on how well my company will do). I'm in a fairly low cost of living but also low salary type of country, so my base compensation alone amounts to multiple times my national average salary.

I don't unfortunately have much saved up yet. I don't have the kind of parents who could pay my rent and buy me expensive stuff, instead, I've had to be the one to provide them with financial support as I'm in the type of profession that allows me to make quite a lot more than both of them combined right out of college. I gave them about 11k$ USD when their psycho neighbor decided to set fire on their house. They still owe me about 8000$, which is something they fortunately do intend to fully pay back once it gets financially easier for them. I don't mind supporting them, as this means that once they get on their feet they'll be able to support me as well if I happen to stumble on hard times.

Given the kind of work I do, I'd probably have quite a lot higher base compensation if I was born in some super-wealthy western country or if I had gone to quantitative finance instead a few years ago, but eh, I'm not actually complaining. I find robotics to be a much more interesting field, and I find my current company to be super promising as well. Even if the company ends up failing, the skills and knowledge I'm getting working here have me set for life.

For future finances, I'm mostly staking on my career growth, on trying to get promotions and raises and especially on negotiating more stock options packages, as those have much higher potential for payoff than investing your base salary in public stock markets.

Anyhow, I'm not saying this to flex on anyone who's in a rougher spot, just giving a perspective on how finances look like from my perspective. I wish luck to anyone who's financially struggling and feel grateful that I don't have to face such troubles myself.
If there's a moral to this story, I'd say that it's this:
If it's at all possible, then developing a good education (either formally or informally or a mix, I personally find my self-studies more useful than my degree) and a valuable skillset is very much worthwhile, especially if you don't have parents who are able to give you lots of financial support and don't live in countries where you can get high salaries doing fairly low-skill work.

 

[Fallowfox]

I also see no debt/no credit cards mentioned as advice but a lot of businesses, especially small start-up ones, need and rely on credits in order to make it. How else do you find a 5 or 6 figure sum of money to start up your own thing? Especially in a country like mine where the average salary is roughly 550-600 euros per month but that applies only for the capital city. For example, in my home town, the average monthly wage is sub 300 euros per month.

Most of the "luxury" items I bought were purchased on a 3 to 6 month payment plans with 0% interest, since stores offer this option in partnership with banks. For example, I love watches and it brings me great joy when I get a model that I've been wanting to. When I wear it, it makes me feel good. Most of the timepieces I have are about 150-170 euros, and all of them were paid off for 6 months. I have a total of 6, 2 I bought 10 years ago, the other 4 I got in the last 4 years. So it's not like I spend all my money on watches.

I had to take a loan to get one tooth fixed because that thing costed 1000 euros in total. That's how much a good quality crown costs - more than 3 times the monthly salary of my home town.

So if there's anyone who has advice on how I can get out of this nightmare, please do share. As long as it doesn't include "move to a better country" or "learn programming/become a lawyer/doctor/engineer". I have tried the whole "better country" thing and programming, medicine and law are something that I can't learn. I mean, even if I wanted to, I can't afford a new degree now. That said, I am studying German using Duolingo every day, anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour. There are no courses for German in my home town so I can't sign up for one.
The reason I'm learning this language specifically is because when it comes to customer service jobs, or any office job really, German is the most sought and highest paying language. For example, in the same company, a position with only English pays 1000 eur/month, while with German + English it's 1800 eur/month for the exact same position.

Having a credit card is also used as part of verification processes in a lot of countries if you are are self employed in your own business or work free-lance.
I feel advising people not to use credit cards at all is kinda just assuming that other people are all so dumb that they can't avoid racking up unserviceable credit card debt.

Incidentally, I have also been trying to move country, but I haven't succeeded yet. I don't know if I will ever get out.
To compare to other people in this thread, who report rental costs of ~ £350 a month, a single room in a rat-infested shared house can cost more than double that in this country (that's what my brother was paying, and yep they had rats). It is not atypical for more than half of somebody's earnings to be spent on rent here.