Political Ideologies
- Thread starter Grimfang999
- Start date
Aetius
It's Me Gordon, Barney from Black Mesa
Its the critical thinking skills that come with the degree that you apply towards real life (Or that is what the salesman told me).
Miles ahead of art degrees (;v)
Communism is so 1991
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Grimfang999
Member
Except you know, being able to understandthe stock markets, be a banker, stock-broker, politician and so forth.
It depends on what you want to do with your life. If you want to make money, well then its there. If you want to do something which will actually get something done which can help others however, unless you go into the field of political-economics it probably wont help.
Unless your point was all university degrees are useless. which depends on what you plan to do.
Xolani
Member
"Capitalism is a good idea because it solves the problems caused by Capitalism" is the main argument I tend to hear in favour of it.
"Capitalism will solve inefficiency and waste!" that's why in a capitalist market, 1/2 of all food is wasted in a world where people still starve to death.
"Capitalism will provide jobs and livelihoods!" that's why full employment has only ever been achieved under a Keynesian mixed economy.
"Capitalism will create a sustainable economy!" an economy that perpetually relies upon growth for prosperity cannot be sustainable.
I could go on.
"Capitalism will solve inefficiency and waste!" that's why in a capitalist market, 1/2 of all food is wasted in a world where people still starve to death.
"Capitalism will provide jobs and livelihoods!" that's why full employment has only ever been achieved under a Keynesian mixed economy.
"Capitalism will create a sustainable economy!" an economy that perpetually relies upon growth for prosperity cannot be sustainable.
I could go on.
It's cheaper to destroy food than to ship it across the world to the people who really need it. Lots of companies give leftover food away to organization if they come and pick it up. obviously big corporations aren't going to ship leftover food at their expenses so leftover food gets destroyed
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Cool but that still isn't solving inefficiency and waste.
PsychicOtter
Otter Missionary
Out of curiosity, what system do you believe in?
Socialism/communism works only in a perfect world. Unfortunately, we do not live in one. In addition, almost all incentive goes out the window.
CannonFodder
Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Capitalism only works when you are stabbing someone in the back and stealing their wallet.
Golden
Member
No, I understand that part. It just seems to me that being a pro-free trade socialist is quite the oxymoron.
PsychicOtter
Otter Missionary
Capitalism has its serious flaws, however in my opinion there aren't any systems that would work better.
Grimfang999
Member
Only if incentive is monetary. What of altruism, the intent of helping your fellow man? Likewise, communism is based on interdependancy, if one refuses their part who is to say they will be refused also? The "incentive" argument here only works if you believe incentive can only be for direct gains. You may argue it doesnt happen this way, Im not saying it does, but the possability does exist, even if it is hard to achieve.
I would reply to Hydra, but its late and Im fucking tired, so night peeps.
Actually first
Not entirely, it just means the national economy is run by the state. You could maybe argue that on an international level the government will trade just as a compant would.
Other than that... yeah doesnt make sense unless you are like me and have long term ideals but more practical short term plans.
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PsychicOtter
Otter Missionary
That is EXACTLY what my point is. In the real world, incentive for the average man is about 90% monetary. As I said, this would work great in a perfect world where everyone is completely selfless and isn't as concerned with their own well-being as opposed to the community. That is not possible in our society. I can't support a system that would only work in a fantasy world.
Golden
Member
I've taken alot of these kinds of tests and I seem to get a different result every time. I simply think that many of them are bunk. In reality, I am egalitarian but opposed to central planning.
What do you mean long term ideals and short term plans?
Xolani
Member
I did say I'm a member of the Green party. I'm a social democrat leaning towards "socialism lite", eg: a citizen's income.
One could easily argue the same about Capitalism.
It's naive to think people won't go to university, won't take highly-skilled jobs, and generally won't try to better themselves just because the state unconditionally guarantees a basic standard of living for every citizen.
Guys I have like, the most radical idea.
How about okay
bear with me
we don't rely on one system for everything.
I mean, I can't imagine how godawful schools and such if they were capitalistic. Pretty much any school would be like college. People would have to pay fees for things like the fire department to put out a fire. Yes, this has happened. The person forgot to pay the yearly fee and as a result, the firefighters came out only to prevent it from spreading to the other houses who paid. Then they watched as the guy's home burnt down.
I know I'm a bossy as fuck liberal but capitalism isn't all bad. Just all capitalism is bad because some things just won't work out.
How about okay
bear with me
we don't rely on one system for everything.
I mean, I can't imagine how godawful schools and such if they were capitalistic. Pretty much any school would be like college. People would have to pay fees for things like the fire department to put out a fire. Yes, this has happened. The person forgot to pay the yearly fee and as a result, the firefighters came out only to prevent it from spreading to the other houses who paid. Then they watched as the guy's home burnt down.
I know I'm a bossy as fuck liberal but capitalism isn't all bad. Just all capitalism is bad because some things just won't work out.
Troj
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
I mentioned it before, but ya'll might enjoy the quizzes and scales at yourmorals.org, where you can compare your personal ethics and your moral yardsticks with those of self-identified Liberals and self-identified Conservatives in the larger sample.
Oh, and I'm apparently a social Democratic Cosmopolitan. Sounds about right, even though some of the questions, as usual, didn't have satisfactory answers for me. I'm surprised I was skewed more towards Communism, since I'm an avowed Capitalist, albeit with some Socialistic tendencies (so, maybe that's it).
Oh, and I'm apparently a social Democratic Cosmopolitan. Sounds about right, even though some of the questions, as usual, didn't have satisfactory answers for me. I'm surprised I was skewed more towards Communism, since I'm an avowed Capitalist, albeit with some Socialistic tendencies (so, maybe that's it).
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T
TheMetalVelocity
Guest
Nothing is fair in life and people are always trying to achieve that, and probably never will. Can we get close to fairness? Maybe we can, but, it's all about people willing to compromise. This could be a lesson for humanity that no one seems to fucking get or care about. Socialism/Communism is the result of failed Capitalism, where people are forced to do shit and make it work out, because of their careless actions in Capitalism. I like the libertarian ideology, but it can't workout unless people are responsible for their own actions. Capitalism works out of generosity. Everything in this world is almost like a lesson for the beings that live here. It's kind of cool when you realize how nature has these laws that make sense.
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Matt Conner
New Member
I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, so I guess that makes me a libertarian. I don't like describing myself with that word though, it makes me sound like a spoiled douchebag X3
Grimfang999
Member
One may argue this: Monetary incentive at the current time is the biggest incentive, but that is only because we are raised within an economy built on collecting wealth, and money is what you need to get things. In other societies, the biggest incentive to do something could easilly be religious (such as in the middle east), and then there are small communities which do it for self-sufficiency. Monetary incentive is a cultural structure, we learn it, it is not innate. The biggest incentive to work is not simply money, but what you are raised to believe. The adaptability of human nature is what true communism and anarchism is based on, that people can and will adapt to suit their environment and community.
Oh yeah I wouldnt trust the tests unless you dont know yourself. Just find an ideal which suits you.
As for what I mean, I will refer you to a previous post of mine
I mostly agree with you, but you seem to have a twisted version of what socialism/communism and capitalism is. While socialism and communism can come out of failed capitalism, it doesnt need to be except through the route of violent revolution. Likewise, capitalism does not work out of generosity, but of necessity in greed. Capitalism in an individualistic system, it requires that people look out only for themselves. Jobs and wages are there so there is dvision of labour and improved output, so the managers can create more money. Work conditions have only improved due to government intervention under a mixed economy. And I know you said libertarianism only works if everyone is responsable for their actions, but then that is basically the same in a communist society.
Ah yes, I just want to add this. In a truly communist society according to marx, it wouldnt be everyone is forced to work, but rather it would reach a point where produce such as food would be in such high excess that its value would be practically worthless. At that level, without the control of market forces, people would not need to work as much, and would be allowed to devote more time to self-government and thus full democracy could be achieved, as that was his main goal. In many ways, I agree with him, but I wouldnt call myself a marxist, as while many of his ideas are good many are flawed, and the betetr ideas I figured myself out at the age of 16 anyway.
Xolani
Member
We already live in a world where we produce enough food to feed everyone 3 times over. In actual fact, we already live in a post-scarcity world. Capitalism is the problem. Some people get way more food than they need, while others starve to death, and half of all food produced is never eaten and gets wasted.
What are we told the solution is to this inefficiency and waste (an inefficiency on which many lives are lost)? More capitalism. So we work our planet harder and harder every year, when it's already surpassed its long-term agricultural capacity. Telling people more capitalism will solve those hungry mouths. More capitalism will solve that waste.
Capitalism has never solved waste or inefficiency, it has only caused it, in one of the most fundamental aspects of human life; food.
Aetius
It's Me Gordon, Barney from Black Mesa
Market Capitalism is less of a reason for the unequal distribution of food around the world. Trade barriers, corruption, war, bad infrastructure, and most importantly logistics are huge factors for such inefficiencies. It is simply a fallacy to leave the blame on market capitalism, when so many other factors are at play behind the scenes.
Its a shame that late 1910s-early 20s Soviet Russia proved this idea meaningless, as many farmers would opt to create a surplus when there is financial incentive, rather than out of the goodness of their heart. Even lenin saw this and created the NEP (Where farmers could sell some crops for profit for a higher yield).
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