[POLL]Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?

[Raever]

I'd say it's gotten better by standard definitions; bigger, more "mainstream", more "acceptance" within the community, and so on. As for there being an invisible wall between normal members and popular artists, maybe - but that's also dependant on the artist I think.

I know many relatively popular artists who are just as happy to have a conversation, they might sometimes lack time to talk for hours but chances are they will give an opinion here or a laugh there if you give them the chance. A lot of artists who are full-time artists are often spending all of their free time with loved ones because they rarely get to. You'd be surprised how much time art actually takes up.
Even for the pros.

 

[Judge Spear]

I'm not really sure I'd say trend chasing has become worse or even necessarily changed as a result of Twitter et al.

I think he's talking about the individual memes that come up weekly. "Draw X character in this shirt" that kind of thing. It always existed, but I've never really recalled it being this frequent when I used Weasyl. I don't know if maybe the frequency within the NSFW side of things, but in my experience it surpasses even what I would see on Twitter. There was a pressure I'd feel to hop on several art bandwagons but I just wouldn't.

I don't think that's really furry exclusive or necessarily the worst shit ever though.

It's amazing how many people bring up their hatred for twitter/drama but do their best to talk about it whenever they can. It's like the new 'im vegan'. XD

I only hear about twitter news because the people that claim to hate it so much, keep bringing it up.

People wanting to be popfur is nothing new and it will never change. People having a like addiction and seeking validation will never change. As one generation moves up and matures, another generation takes over.

It's a choice of choosing to subscribe to drama vs not and it ain't that hard! I tried using a Twitter account for character research (subscribing to thinks they like and seeing what the algorithm feeds me) and not one single drop of drama has popped into my feed, unless you count lil Nas marketing off his haters, drama.

I assume this is a lot of words for "shut the fuck up".
The topic is about whether or not someone believes the furry scene is getting worse. If someone believes Twitter is aiding in that degradation, accurate or not, I don't see the issue in discussing it? This isn't some random rant thread "I Hate Twitter". It's a relevant criticism.

The last few people to mention Twitter have stated they left it or minimized their usage. And you're not gonna just *forget* your reasons to cold turkey a place. I don't see your point.

 

[Raever]

I assume this is a lot of words for "shut the fuck up".
The topic is about whether or not someone believes the furry scene is getting worse. If someone believes Twitter is aiding in that degradation, accurate or not, I don't see the issue in discussing it? This isn't some random rant thread "I Hate Twitter". It's a relevant criticism.

The last few people to mention Twitter have stated they left it or minimized their usage. And you're not gonna just *forget* your reasons to cold turkey a place. I don't see your point.

I think what they meant was the sorts who actively complain about twitter whilst using is regularly as part of an every day routine, not the ones who minimized or halted usage due to their dislike of it. While I understand why/how you'd be offended, I think this is just wires crossing due to miscommunication. I doubt they were telling half a thread to shut up. -_-;

 

[Nexus Cabler]

I assume this is a lot of words for "shut the fuck up".
The topic is about whether or not someone believes the furry scene is getting worse. If someone believes Twitter is aiding in that degradation, accurate or not, I don't see the issue in discussing it? This isn't some random rant thread "I Hate Twitter". It's a relevant criticism.

The last few people to mention Twitter have stated they left it or minimized their usage. And you're not gonna just *forget* your reasons to cold turkey a place. I don't see your point.

I've known Tyra for a bit, she isn't trying to be rude here. She's very civil on these forums.

She's just pointing out how we've kind of wandered from the main topic to this narrow subject regarding a social media platform, that's been in a lot of posts. It's something I mentioned myself earlier as well.

It's just a misunderstanding here, no disrespect aimed towards anyone.

 

[Attaman]

I think he's talking about the individual memes that come up weekly. "Draw X character in this shirt" that kind of thing. It always existed, but I've never really recalled it being this frequent when I used Weasyl.

Once again, the frequency isn't really something new. You could always see what was popular any one particular week / month by looking for trends on the front page. Of which there were often many.

Part of the reason this likely seems different now is that a lot of the internet is far more interconnected, so whereas before each Furry site was something of a vacuum (often at least semi-enforced at that: FA wanting to be distinct from SF wanting to be distinct from IB wanting to...) now there's a lot more bleedover between online communities leading to something popular on one site inevitably trickling over to another. Before it was fairly easy to miss whatever was trending, now it's easier to stumble upon it.

There's also, admittedly, a discussion to be had about how while the Furry Community has expanded, the rest of the internet has significantly contracted, which also leads to a change in perception.

I don't think that's really furry exclusive or necessarily the worst shit ever though.

For a laugh, keep an eye out for memes that have been cross-posted so many times that you can see them return to the originating site a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th time. You know the drill: Tumblr post screenshot in Twitter cropped for Instagram posted back on Tumblr only to be shared again on-

The internet churns quite rapidly and prolifically.

As for the other Social Media stuff: I don't believe it was an attempt to silence anyone so much as comment on how... I mean, just look at this thread's history? Or other - similar - threads' history? The thread tends to go quiet for anywhere from a week to months, only for somebody to jump in and go "Gee Twitter sure sucks", and the pattern to rinse repeat. Sometimes it's even the same person coming back into a thread (again, weeks / months later) to reiterate "Twitter sure sucks". Which after a point leads one (as I presume Tyra was getting at) to wonder if the problem is not so much the site itself as an inability to know one's limits, how to best curate their online experiences, and generally withdraw their self from a toxic loop.

A matter I'm admittedly pretty terrible at myself (having taken something like four years to extract myself from a website I actively knew was making me angry, and which even now I'm considering going back to because of Discord NFT drama despite knowing that it'll probably just rip open old scars for the sake of socialization convenience), but none the less very much worth bringing up as it's a vital skill to have when navigating the modern internet.

There's reading between the line that could be had, but I don't believe Tyra is making any such effort / looking to a stir the pot instead of exactly the above. Some people really need to realize that looking at certain sites without taking certain precautions is like grabbing a hot skillet bare-handed over and over again, and thus should either start wearing oven mitts or learn to stop using said skillet and adapt to something else.

 

[BadRoy]

It's amazing how many people bring up their hatred for twitter/drama but do their best to talk about it whenever they can. It's like the new 'im vegan'. XD

People wanting to be popfur is nothing new and it will never change. People having a like addiction and seeking validation will never change. As one generation moves up and matures, another generation takes over.

I know what you mean, but I quit Twitter months ago. The site was relevant to the conversation which is why I brought it up.

At risk of going off-topic: You are wrong, 'like addiction' and validation seeking have changed. They've been distilled to the purest form in sites like Twitter which incentivise pithy soundbites, controversy, and memes without pesky meaningful discussion or a proper art gallery getting in the way. You make your clever post, you get your fix seeing the numbers go up, and you endlessly scroll the feed thinking up ways to get more numbers. I've seen it happen and I know you have too.
To wrap it around to our topic this is why I think furries have left art sites as basically 'back-up galleries.' The fix is simply much purer on Twitter.

Someone mentioned this earlier, but one thing that has definitely gotten better about the fandom is art quality. Even like 15 years ago I could probably count the number of really exceptional artists I knew of on two hands, but these days sheeeit. Digital art has only gotten better and there are artists with every kind of style you could think of knocking it out of the park. It's awesome.

 

[Raever]

There's also, admittedly, a discussion to be had about how while the Furry Community has expanded, the rest of the internet has significantly contracted, which also leads to a change in perception.

Can you provide more context as far as the rest of the internet contracting?
I feel a bit slow and I'm not picking up what you're putting down, lol.

 

[TyraWadman]

I assume this is a lot of words for "shut the fuck up".
The topic is about whether or not someone believes the furry scene is getting worse. If someone believes Twitter is aiding in that degradation, accurate or not, I don't see the issue in discussing it? This isn't some random rant thread "I Hate Twitter". It's a relevant criticism.

The last few people to mention Twitter have stated they left it or minimized their usage. And you're not gonna just *forget* your reasons to cold turkey a place. I don't see your point.

Everyone else pretty much nailed it on the head. It's a reoccurring subject/complaint that doesn't necessarily always contribute to an actual discussion. People then go off topic about how they hate twitter instead of doing something about it and the cycle repeats.

I know what you mean, but I quit Twitter months ago. The site was relevant to the conversation which is why I brought it up.

At risk of going off-topic: You are wrong, 'like addiction' and validation seeking have changed. They've been distilled to the purest form in sites like Twitter which incentivise pithy soundbites, controversy, and memes without pesky meaningful discussion or a proper art gallery getting in the way. You make your clever post, you get your fix seeing the numbers go up, and you endlessly scroll the feed thinking up ways to get more numbers. I've seen it happen and I know you have too.
To wrap it around to our topic this is why I think furries have left art sites as basically 'back-up galleries.' The fix is simply much purer on Twitter.

A few years ago it was Facebook and there have always been FA artists riding the trend on what's popular in hopes they'll achieve it some day. Even big-name companies ride trends! You always see people posting here on FAF asking why their career hasn't taken off, or how to generate more views. My point is that it's always been a part of human nature/history. What platform they decide to make their new home doesn't matter. There are always going to be people who are like this.

I think it's weird that just because you (universally, not you specifically) don't like most of the users that call themselves furry, it somehow means the fandom has gotten worse. Realistically you don't even like most of the non-furries you encounter in life so why would this be any different?

I think people need to stop lumping everything together and just focus on the things they enjoy. Last I recall, it was a hobby. If y'all wanna make it a lifestyle and treat it like a religion (aka gatekeep) and worry about what everyone else might be doing with the name, then you're responsible for managing your own stress! XD

 

[Attaman]

Can you provide more context as far as the rest of the internet contracting?
I feel a bit slow and I'm not picking up what you're putting down, lol.

Sorry 'bout that.

I've touched on it before in this thread, but a big way in which the internet's contracted is a mix of things being put behind paywalls alongside certain websites becoming the proverbial ten-ton elephant in the room. Similar to how - to use an offline analogy - Walmart and Barnes & Noble smothered a number of local grocers / general good stores and book shops (respectively), places like Twitter and Facebook (alongside enormous messenger services like Discord and Telegram) have done a number on various blogs, forums, lesser chat services and chat groups, and so-on. Furthermore, in addition to reducing the prevalence of such things, such sites have increasingly connected what remains. In a manner that the big sites can control, of course. This is to say that it's practically a given on many services these days to embed links to Twitter, Facebook, et al, but at the same time they tend to take action to limit external links and where they appear utilizing their algorithm. So while you can inevitably point towards them from outside, you can rarely point outside from within (at least without having to rely on others to signal boost for you).

 

[quoting_mungo]

Sorry 'bout that.

I've touched on it before in this thread, but a big way in which the internet's contracted is a mix of things being put behind paywalls alongside certain websites becoming the proverbial ten-ton elephant in the room. Similar to how - to use an offline analogy - Walmart and Barnes & Noble smothered a number of local grocers / general good stores and book shops (respectively), places like Twitter and Facebook (alongside enormous messenger services like Discord and Telegram) have done a number on various blogs, forums, lesser chat services and chat groups, and so-on. Furthermore, in addition to reducing the prevalence of such things, such sites have increasingly connected what remains. In a manner that the big sites can control, of course. This is to say that it's practically a given on many services these days to embed links to Twitter, Facebook, et al, but at the same time they tend to take action to limit external links and where they appear utilizing their algorithm. So while you can inevitably point towards them from outside, you can rarely point outside from within (at least without having to rely on others to signal boost for you).

I'd personally also say that the Internet has (since >20 years ago when I got intro-to-Internet type classes at school) also contracted in something similar to the sense that we talk about technology making the world smaller. Things are more interconnected, and it takes more effort to make your Internet presence a number of isolated islands rather than a contiguous whole.

Though even now, I'm finding out about sites/services/etc I didn't yet know about with surprising frequency. For all that the Internet is "urbanizing," it's still possible to stumble upon that little isolated backwater village population-in-the-double-digits-at-best.

 

[KimberVaile]

At risk of going off-topic: You are wrong, 'like addiction' and validation seeking have changed. They've been distilled to the purest form in sites like Twitter which incentivise pithy soundbites, controversy, and memes without pesky meaningful discussion or a proper art gallery getting in the way. You make your clever post, you get your fix seeing the numbers go up, and you endlessly scroll the feed thinking up ways to get more numbers. I've seen it happen and I know you have too.
To wrap it around to our topic this is why I think furries have left art sites as basically 'back-up galleries.' The fix is simply much purer on Twitter.

A good deal of the 5 second soundbites, flash fire drama and so on is largely due to the 280 character limit I feel. You do get that on Facebook too, but to a much lesser extent, but I think a key part of why Twitter gets most of the ire is that by design, you're not supposed to have in depth conversations there. You can get a quick hot take out, but any sort of extended discussion attempted there get muddled with long unwieldy chain replies. A single paragraph, let alone multiple paragraphs is an eyesore to look at, because you're engaging in something Twitter isn't designed for.

Though in fairness, I think Twitter as a whole has changed more than just the fandom with how influential it has become. Regardless, the overall online culture has been altered due to Twitter's prominence regardless of whether you personally use it or not. I personally prefer the forums over Twitter, but I'm in the minority with that opinion. That said, if you like and use Twitter often and get a lot out of it, all the more power to you.

My concerns are not so much the people but the platform's design overall. I'd argue that the incentivization of hot takes over long discussions has not been a positive change for multiple online communities, but that's just a theory. A fox theory. Thanks for reading.

Interestingly, I feel like with how many chat alternatives there are, Discord, Twitter, Forums, Telegram. The Fandom has sorta/kinda split off a bit in soft ways into very loose subgroups. I'm not entirely sure what to think of that, but it is interesting. It's different from the earlier days of the fandom when Furaffinity was the hub for a good majority of the Fandom's culture, but that does come with it's own issues.

One thing I do like is being able to get out from under the thumb of FA a bit, Discord helped quite a bit with that, I think. Smaller groups of furries making their own servers, and so on.
I've been left considering, that social media has given many people a voice. It's good that so many people can be heard now, but that also comes with the caveat of having literally everyone being able to voice themselves. That includes loud vociferous assholes. Bit of a double edged sword.

Anywho, just kind of thinking outloud, not trying to ruffle any feathers.

 

[Ennui Elemental]

You can tell it's gotten worse because the trolls aren't really trying anymore

 

[Minerva_Minx]

If we're talking the fandom, again, my opinion is it's still the same and nothing has really changed but us older people are "those older furries". Nothing wrong with that, just we have grown up and moved on. Now, a new youngergroup has moved into the fandom andare experiencing exactly what we did in the 1990s to 2010s. The 2010s to 2020 were kind of our nostalgia points as Blockbuster died off, Facebook became hoisehold over ,yspace amd IRC, Bitcoin and Tesla were starting and so on. for90s kids, this is essentially their time to really push the fandom forward.

I think FA is our Blockbuster: it's here and still relevant, but it's not the center of activity it once was. It COULD be, but it's not going to go that direction either, I don't think.

Discord, Twitter, and the others are going to supplant FA, but at the moment, nothing really centralizes the fandom. Uncle Kage is generally a twitter character at the moment, likely due to tenure. i haven't really paid enough attention to his relevance anymore and haven't seen anyone else able to pull the fandom together as he did in the early days of the internet, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Popularity will always take the cake, but it's fickle and it's just as easy to fall back into obscurity. Example: Take individuals and their CRT/politics/flame of the week- it's a good example of attempting to stay relevant or being relevant. During the political discussions days, it was effective, people followed, the flames were fanned and trolling times had by all. Now, younger groups moved in, times shifted and now it is less so eliminating this podium and the once known people are lost and grasping. So now what? That's the question the new furs will need to answer.

No, the problems, hopes, dreams, and comraderie of the fandom is now more diluted and spread out. There's sooo much variety and niche corners, but again, no real central nexus. that's why i think people go to it's good or bad or fray the topic: trying to find something to grasp on to. This is simply a product of the internet expanding. Ha, now people even know I'm a furry and thanks to the internet of thinhs, I have ample greek yogurt in my fridge.

Need to find the greek yogurt eating, Rainbow Dash loving, yuri romance, nerdy fur discord...