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[POLL]Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?

Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?


  • Total voters
    91
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Totally off the topic but this is the first time I've heard "meatspace" used to describe real-life world stuff and I'm dying. Thank you for that.
the term precedes that post by decades IIRC and it actually might have been cribbed from something like Neuromancer

also god dammit can I please stop fucking up on nouns in sentences today
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
I'm thinking we're talking past each other at best this this point, @O.D.D. Whether the internet has gotten better overall or worse seems heavily dependent on where you are and who you are, and I certainly don't think there's issues.

To the topic - I've said the fandom is generally the same, because we traded some bad for good, good for bad, and overall the net change is 0. Internet culture has always sucked, so it's not a valid way to say the fandom has gotten worse. At least anymore than overall culture has or hasn't. Do you agree or disagree?

Totally off the topic but this is the first time I've heard "meatspace" used to describe real-life world stuff and I'm dying. Thank you for that.
I was gonna say welcome to 2003, but I guess the term was coined in 1981 to oppose "cyberspace."
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I'm thinking we're talking past each other at best this this point, @O.D.D. Whether the internet has gotten better overall or worse seems heavily dependent on where you are and who you are, and I certainly don't think there's issues.

To the topic - I've said the fandom is generally the same, because we traded some bad for good, good for bad, and overall the net change is 0. Internet culture has always sucked, so it's not a valid way to say the fandom has gotten worse. At least anymore than overall culture has or hasn't. Do you agree or disagree?
I certainly haven't seen a lot of meaningful improvement and within the scope of "what I've witnessed" it looks worse now to me but maybe you're just having a better go of it idk

Like in the seemingly distant past the problem was largely incredibly oversexed social outcasts and predators walking amongst them (thanks Merlino you fucking dipshit) and the call for moderation and a bit of temperance was promptly hijacked by insane puritanical assholes because what is gatekeeping I don't know lol

Now we have more oversexed outcasts and still have predators, the response to this seems anemic but at least it's THERE I guess, and compounding that is the "no fun all politics" brigades just utterly poisoning a stupid silly fun interest group from every fucking angle
 
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MaelstromEyre

Slippery When Wet
I'm thinking we're talking past each other at best this this point, @O.D.D. Whether the internet has gotten better overall or worse seems heavily dependent on where you are and who you are, and I certainly don't think there's issues.

To the topic - I've said the fandom is generally the same, because we traded some bad for good, good for bad, and overall the net change is 0. Internet culture has always sucked, so it's not a valid way to say the fandom has gotten worse. At least anymore than overall culture has or hasn't. Do you agree or disagree?


I was gonna say welcome to 2003, but I guess the term was coined in 1981 to oppose "cyberspace."
Dang, where have I been. . .guess I ran in different online circles all this time. :)
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Since politics has come up now from at least four different people (five if you include my "Even dropping political reasons people say the fandom has gotten worse"): Politics has increasingly come up in the fandom because, surprise of surprises, fandoms are created of people and politics (or even just things that are deemed political) impacts them.

Trans Rights are an obvious one: The fandom has what often times appears to be a disproportionate footprint among trans- communities (I'd argue LGBTQA+ in general, but that's another subject for another thread likely for another month). Several nations have, even just looking at the past year, passed legislature that is either favorable towards Trans Rights or unfavorable to them (not getting into the nitty gritty as doing so, again, is invoking the subject that shan't be mentioned: "There are Trans people in the fandom, there have been events positive and negative in relations to Trans Rights" is about as close as one can comfortably get with any assurance that bats aren't about to start swinging).

Another one is the events of last year in the US (take your pick of which, there's no shortage that'll fit the approximate hole shape without having to specify) that have similarly had impacts on demographics who - shock of shocks - populate the fandom (once again, take your pick as to which: 2020 was a year of "May you live in interesting times").

Obviously for some people the fandom is a place to escape day-to-day life concerns. A place to blot out the offline (or even just outside-fandom-space) world and relax. But some people don't get that luxury, being unable to escape such drudgery / biases / et al even within fandom spaces. Others don't want to have to neatly pack parts of themselves into tidy boxes, say "I can never bring this up with anyone anywhere", and basically pretend to be their avatar whenever in fandom spaces (which, even disregarding all the above, is fairly understandable IMO when you consider how many people have meltdowns over basic things like "I thought you would exclusively interact via your characters with me!").

This isn't coming up more because the fandom "has got dumb" or anything like that. It's because the internet had - until relatively recently (you could argue approximately 2014-ish, give or take, though it's become more extreme / pronounced since then) - been fairly willing to look the other way, tolerate, or even accept and provide voices to people who normally either would not be heard or had to hide such aspects of themselves (as well as - similar to how Furry has been able to proliferate outside a handful of communities in the last several decades - congregate and form communities with which to interact with their peers across the globe). Likewise the increased condensing of the internet, "cleaning up" of communities in order to make them more appealing to prospective buyers / shareholders, and so-on has lead a number of communities that were fairly open with their members to suddenly be thrust out of their communities / networks and told "Either make a new community or scatter into the winds".

And to say again for emphasis: While for some people that's fine ("It was nice while it lasted"), or was never too big a deal for them in the first place (whether keeping their private lives close to their chest, simply finding other aspects of themselves more important, or so-on), for others it's a bit naff to go online into a community and be told "Feel free to express and be true to yourself! Except for those parts. And these. Don't mind that we let others share that aspect of themselves freely. Also if you don't listen it's up to you to handle the consequences. Just smile, nod, and keep your head low when people talk shit about you. Good luck!"
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Since politics has come up now from at least four different people (five if you include my "Even dropping political reasons people say the fandom has gotten worse"): Politics has increasingly come up in the fandom because, surprise of surprises, fandoms are created of people and politics (or even just things that are deemed political) impacts them.

Trans Rights are an obvious one: The fandom has what often times appears to be a disproportionate footprint among trans- communities (I'd argue LGBTQA+ in general, but that's another subject for another thread likely for another month). Several nations have, even just looking at the past year, passed legislature that is either favorable towards Trans Rights or unfavorable to them (not getting into the nitty gritty as doing so, again, is invoking the subject that shan't be mentioned: "There are Trans people in the fandom, there have been events positive and negative in relations to Trans Rights" is about as close as one can comfortably get with any assurance that bats aren't about to start swinging).

Another one is the events of last year in the US (take your pick of which, there's no shortage that'll fit the approximate hole shape without having to specify) that have similarly had impacts on demographics who - shock of shocks - populate the fandom (once again, take your pick as to which: 2020 was a year of "May you live in interesting times").

Obviously for some people the fandom is a place to escape day-to-day life concerns. A place to blot out the offline (or even just outside-fandom-space) world and relax. But some people don't get that luxury, being unable to escape such drudgery / biases / et al even within fandom spaces. Others don't want to have to neatly pack parts of themselves into tidy boxes, say "I can never bring this up with anyone anywhere", and basically pretend to be their avatar whenever in fandom spaces (which, even disregarding all the above, is fairly understandable IMO when you consider how many people have meltdowns over basic things like "I thought you would exclusively interact via your characters with me!").

This isn't coming up more because the fandom "has got dumb" or anything like that. It's because the internet had - until relatively recently (you could argue approximately 2014-ish, give or take, though it's become more extreme / pronounced since then) - been fairly willing to look the other way, tolerate, or even accept and provide voices to people who normally either would not be heard or had to hide such aspects of themselves (as well as - similar to how Furry has been able to proliferate outside a handful of communities in the last several decades - congregate and form communities with which to interact with their peers across the globe). Likewise the increased condensing of the internet, "cleaning up" of communities in order to make them more appealing to prospective buyers / shareholders, and so-on has lead a number of communities that were fairly open with their members to suddenly be thrust out of their communities / networks and told "Either make a new community or scatter into the winds".

And to say again for emphasis: While for some people that's fine ("It was nice while it lasted"), or was never too big a deal for them in the first place (whether keeping their private lives close to their chest, simply finding other aspects of themselves more important, or so-on), for others it's a bit naff to go online into a community and be told "Feel free to express and be true to yourself! Except for those parts. And these. Don't mind that we let others share that aspect of themselves freely. Also if you don't listen it's up to you to handle the consequences. Just smile, nod, and keep your head low when people talk shit about you. Good luck!"
This is the last time I'm going to give you the time of day, and it's to say "learn to compartmentalize this shit away from my little bit of escapism"

I'm dead fucking sick of politics, and it's not because I don't have political opinions, it's because using the fandom or PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE ELSE REALLY to talk about them is a waste of time that leads to me getting frustrated, pissed and at times personally fucking attacked

I don't WANT to give a shit about political raisons d'etre anymore, I HAVE WAY MORE PRESSING AND IMMEDIATE ISSUES that I occasionally need a bit of respite from and you fucking dipshits keep pushing right past that boundary and calling me the bad guy for not marching in lockstep with you, I am beyond sick of this, FUCK OFF.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
I certainly haven't seen a lot of meaningful improvement and within the scope of "what I've witnessed" it looks worse now to me but maybe you're just having a better go of it idk
Or the dirt's always been there and now you care. There's also a tendency for the human brain to forget the bad, but remember the good. That's why so many old folks think it was just soooooo much better back then.

Been in the community since '07, though not on this account. Really feels like same shit, different toilet? Art, on the whole, is better. Furries are all weird AF. And people on twitter are assholes.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Or the dirt's always been there and now you care. There's also a tendency for the human brain to forget the bad, but remember the good. That's why so many old folks think it was just soooooo much better back then.

Been in the community since '07, though not on this account. Really feels like same shit, different toilet? Art, on the whole, is better. Furries are all weird AF. And people on twitter are assholes.
I always gave a shit but frankly beyond hoping the authorities (who I already dislike and distrust but they have the resources to at least be potentially USEFUL) gave a single shit about sex-pestery in a weird niche interest group (which, thankfully, they are STARTING to do) there was FUCKALL to do about it beyond just avoiding the ones I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt were rotten (and then they just make themselves HARDER to avoid), the number of times I've personally warned someone about someone else only to have them PROMPTLY TURN ON ME is nuts, I'm no longer interested in protecting everyone from making those kinds of mistakes and much more focused on making anyone who fucks with my few friends absolutely regret it

I dread the possibility of police involvement AT ALL with this fandom but honestly given how furry vigilantism tends to shake out I really can't see it being much worse than status quo
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Judging by most of the responses it feels like I've been living under a rock, but the truth is I just don't use twitter

The entire world has gone to shit and we're doomed as a species if you take twitter as a reference
(Not saying the Sarcophagus around this internet Chernobyl doesn't have many cracks as exemplified by some of the responses, but I'll dare say even here, those users still stick out like sore thumbs like the crazy persons they are)
 

KimberVaile

Officially elected and actual ruler of FAF
It's funny, this thread is almost a microcosm of all the Fandom's current issues.
If you're playing the home version of the Bad FAF Thread Bingo game, you've probably already checked off a few things.
Defending of sexual predators, passive aggressive jabs directed at specific users, politically motivated posts, subsequent shit flinging from mentions of politics, obligatory posting of the dumpster fire meme.
I've yet to see the infamous 3 page long back and forth between two users, and haven't seen a thread lock yet either, BUT I'M STILL HOLDING OUT BABY!
 
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Tahr_Yrre

CEO of Paws.
It's funny, this thread is almost a microcosm of all the Fandom's current issues.
If you're playing the home version of the Bad FAF Thread Bingo game, you've probably already checked off a few things.
Defending of sexual predators, passive aggressive jabs directed at specific users, politically motivated posts, subsequent shit flinging from mentions of politics, obligatory posting of the dumpster fire meme.
I've yet to see the infamous 3 page long back and forth between two users, and haven't seen a thread lock yet either, BUT I'M STILL HOLDING OUT BABY!
It's funny because they are proving my point of this fandom being utterly shit now, cheers.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
It's funny, this thread is almost a microcosm of all the Fandom's current issues.
If you're playing the home version of the Bad FAF Thread Bingo game, you've probably already checked off a few things.
Defending of sexual predators, passive aggressive jabs directed at specific users, politically motivated posts, subsequent shit flinging from mentions of politics, obligatory posting of the dumpster fire meme.
I've yet to see the infamous 3 page long back and forth between two users, and haven't seen a thread lock yet either, BUT I'M STILL HOLDING OUT BABY!
You forgot someone who's only contribution is "I'm not a furry." Which also means you can add "pointed callouts" to the list too.

It's funny because they are proving my point of this fandom being utterly shit now, cheers.
So... you can state objectively that ten years ago, this same thread would not have devolved as it has?
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
This is the last time I'm going to give you the time of day, and it's to say "learn to compartmentalize this shit away from my little bit of escapism"
Great! And if somebody can't because, say, they get shit for making a non-binary fursona (because they're non-binary and thus, logically, their fursona is non-binary)? Or is on the receiving end of some pretty sketch commentary because the settle on a kemonomimi / lycanthrope version of their self and said self happens to be non-white?

This can and does happen. Hell: It was something of a meme a year ago when some character's creator or another got a number of harassing messages because they dared to... I forget whether it was merely clarify or change their OC's sex, but somebody went off the deep end going "How dare you make me beat my meat to that which I don't like! Change them back or else!" Everyone laughed at the person sending the messages and not the creator, that time, but that is never a sure thing and the opposite very much has been seen before ("If you didn't want this sort of attention you shouldn't have made such a speshul-snowflake attention seeking try-hard", and whatnot). Or for an example that's not Furry-specific, see the meltdown last year from a bunch of grognards over somebody making rules for a magical wheelchair in 5E D&D. Literal death threats were issued in that exchange.

Which goes back to what I said several times now about the internet being increasingly condensed and the ripple effects it's been having within online communities as a whole. People are increasingly being shoved into places and forced to interact with groups they previously would not have, because one's options are increasingly becoming "Shot in the dark random chat groups", "A handful of major social media sites, some sketchier or heavily clique'd than others", and "Make it yourself! Also prepare for people to increasingly make your life hell so as to further facilitate 2 and increasingly try to consolidate 1 into 2" (see: The effort recently by Microsoft to acquire Discord).
 

TrishaCat

The Cat in the FAF
I dislike where the fandom has gone as I believe it is more abusive and volatile than it has ever been, but also I've only been a furry since 2013 so I really don't know anything at the end of the day about whether things have gotten better or not, only that I've found myself needing to use blocking tools more and more often to create an environment I feel comfortable in. This could also reflect changes in myself rather than in others though, so who knows. ....also tbh 90% of what I dislike about the fandom really only happens on twitter so maybe its more of a "twitter is not a good platform" thing than a furry thing.

one cool thing about the community though: It feels more and more inclusive to the LGBTQ community than ever before, and that's pretty rad.
 

Tahr_Yrre

CEO of Paws.
You forgot someone who's only contribution is "I'm not a furry." Which also means you can add "pointed callouts" to the list too.


So... you can state objectively that ten years ago, this same thread would not have devolved as it has?
I'll be honest? Problably not.
 

KimberVaile

Officially elected and actual ruler of FAF
This could also reflect changes in myself rather than in others though, so who knows. ....also tbh 90% of what I dislike about the fandom really only happens on twitter so maybe its more of a "twitter is not a good platform" thing than a furry thing.
I mean, I agree that Twitter just by design is a god awful platform. People tend to base their perception of cultures/subcultures and so on based on their most public works, figures and so on. The fandom has always had a fairly unsavory reputation by the public, and I don't think it helped at all that people like Kero were revealed to be twisted animal abusers and that this guy Kero's first line of defense was seen on the furry twitter sphere. People like Kero are going to forever color the perception of the fandom at large and furries rather than indicting his creepy ass and pushing this sick person away, decided instead he needed to be defended to bitter end.

Those sort of events that shape public perception are going to weigh more heavily than most things. It really doesn't help that 90% of the fandom's public figures are some variety of cringe inducing, degenerate or severely out of touch. And of course, that's all most people are going to see when they make their perceptions of the fandom.
 
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Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
@Attaman - You're doing exactly what he's complaining about. At no point did he say your politics were bad, or that he disagreed. In fact, he never actually gave a political alignment whatsoever that I saw. But now you're badgering him, assuming the worst. He commented that many in the fandom try to inject politics beyond what's needed, and if you complain, continue to berate you over politics. Which is exactly what you're doing. Hardly going to change his mind when you're doing the thing he hates...

@TrishaCat - This is a major thing I don't think a lot of folks realize. 10 years ago, the culture was "suck it up buttercup" and now it's "that's what the block is for." Those two ideas are going to produce a wildly different interpretation of how you view things. When you suck it up, you just ignore the bullshit and don't have to acknowledge how much there is. When you block, you're taking active steps which make you realize how much there was.
 
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Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
@Attaman - You're doing exactly what he's complaining about. At no point did he say your politics were bad, or that he disagreed. In fact, he never actually gave a political alignment whatsoever that I saw. But now you're badgering him, assuming the worst. He commented that many in the fandom try to inject politics beyond what's needed, and if you complain, continue to berate them over politics. Which is exactly what you're doing. Hardly going to change his mind when you're doing the thing he hates...
It is not an attempt at badgering. It's emphasis on the final paragraph. Normally these situations would not have cropped up because people would have kept to their own little niches / communities on the internet. That increasingly is not an option. You can stick to private chat servers, but those are only as secure as the sites / services that host them (and most of the older members here can probably tell you what happened to a lot of AIM chat groups, Skype ones, IRC ones, etc). A lot of comics and whatnot are increasingly congregating from individual niche communities into general "Host-based" forums (if not just biting the bullet with aforementioned chat groups). Etcetera, etcetera.

Furry's a bit odd in that it's one of the few communities that has seen its number of acceptable mediums / venues expand over the years instead of contract. It's just that this doesn't help when everyone else is fuming over the contraction. And the expansion still isn't that big / involves a lot of bumping elbows.

So people are thrust into a damned-if-you-do situation. To continue with the examples: If you're NB and you want to make a NB fursona, you either have to say "No, I will compartmentalize that part of myself and keep it hidden so as to avoid drama" (at which point you're already limiting your ability to properly enjoy yourself, unwind, and be who you are / would like to be)... or you have to say "Fuck it, I'll make them NB too" (and accept that this will bring different frustrations to both yourself and others). Normally the solution there would be "Hang out in spheres that being NB isn't going to cause much an issue", but... well, consolidation. And guilt by association that goes with a bunch of those consolidations.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
It is not an attempt at badgering. It's emphasis on the final paragraph. Normally these situations would not have cropped up because people would have kept to their own little niches / communities on the internet. That increasingly is not an option. You can stick to private chat servers, but those are only as secure as the sites / services that host them (and most of the older members here can probably tell you what happened to a lot of AIM chat groups, Skype ones, IRC ones, etc). A lot of comics and whatnot are increasingly congregating from individual niche communities into general "Host-based" forums (if not just biting the bullet with aforementioned chat groups). Etcetera, etcetera.

Furry's a bit odd in that it's one of the few communities that has seen its number of acceptable mediums / venues expand over the years instead of contract. It's just that this doesn't help when everyone else is fuming over the contraction. And the expansion still isn't that big / involves a lot of bumping elbows.

So people are thrust into a damned-if-you-do situation. To continue with the examples: If you're NB and you want to make a NB fursona, you either have to say "No, I will compartmentalize that part of myself and keep it hidden so as to avoid drama" (at which point you're already limiting your ability to properly enjoy yourself, unwind, and be who you are / would like to be)... or you have to say "Fuck it, I'll make them NB too" (and accept that this will bring different frustrations to both yourself and others). Normally the solution there would be "Hang out in spheres that being NB isn't going to cause much an issue", but... well, consolidation. And guilt by association that goes with a bunch of those consolidations.
Do you get to choose if you're pissing someone off, or do they? In any case, you're missing the point. An NB character is not, by themselves, political. Where the issue comes in is if someone posts an NB character, and gets met with a "sure, w/e" and proceeds to go "WHAT, DO YOU HATE ME?" it becomes political in a problematic away. There's no fight, but they're choosing to make it one. This behavior you absolutely do see, and is a more extreme version of what you're doing now. He wants an ability to say "I don't want to discuss that" without being further pushed. Yet you made a point to cite at least 4 examples of politics, and tell him "No, you can't avoid it!" He could. By you just not saying anything more, you'd have fulfilled his wish.

Many folks see "I don't want to discuss" as "I disagree" or "I hate" and keep pushing, forcing a self-fulfilling prophecy of getting disagreement or hate solely because they didn't just walk away. I literally have the bi-pride flag as my avatar, but I don't always want to discuss bi-erasure or similar. Yet, if someone were to decide to ask my opinion, and I tell them "I don't feel like talking about it" - I stand a risk of them somehow assuming I don't take the issue seriously.

To phrase this another way, just as an NB person wants to be able to post a character and not get hate, others want the ability to "I don't want to discuss that" and also not get hate. Which is kind of interesting, given that many of those same people seem to make a fight when they don't get one, then complain about it.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Do you get to choose if you're pissing someone off, or do they? In any case, you're missing the point. An NB character is not, by themselves, political. Where the issue comes in is if someone posts an NB character, and gets met with a "sure, w/e" and proceeds to go "WHAT, DO YOU HATE ME?"
I mean, this does nothing to dispel my point? Whoever the instigator is (my portrayal defaulted to others, yours the NB), that conflict would not have occurred otherwise. Unless you're presenting a counter-argument that the crowding / changes to the internet in general are not the issue, but instead that we have an issue of people swan-diving into communities purposefully riling shit up, which...

Uh, considering my self-admitted reasons for joining FAF back when I did in ages past, may not be the best argument for "This is a today problem, not a past one".
 

ben909

vaporeon
*tries to use this discussion as a point for the poll*
...
...
...
to lazy to read through it all enough times to probably understand it
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
@Attaman - I'm talking the people who don't want to stir shit who aren't allowed to just live in peace. Like the guy you were arguing with (or the concept of the guy I've now invented). He basically said "I want to be able to tell people "go away with your politics" and have them do that." So not have some tell them repeatedly "you can't avoid it! you can't avoid it! I'm going to make sure of it!." It's people missing that they're stirring shit by insisting there's a problem when there isn't. Then getting mad when they get hit back.

And I do see this all the time. The alphabet mafia is really bad at doing it. Posts like "I'm trans, fight me! FUCK YOU!" and similar. Lots of folks don't care that you're trans, but as soon as you start getting that aggressive, they care because it's an implied attack against them. When folks complain about "shoving it down their throat" it's not wearing a pride flag, or talking with a lisp. It's this "looking for a fight, and making one if there isn't" trend that's very common, particularly on online forums. To flip sides, people don't necessarily care if you're carrying a gun, but they absolute do care when you start (metaphorically or not) screaming in someone's face "COME AND TAKE IT."

Your point, as I understand it, is politics are unavoidable, it's what happens when cultures collide. My point is politics are completely avoidable - you just... let things go. Someone says "I don't care" or "I don't want to talk about it" and that's it. You drop it. And when you post, you post as if there isn't going to be a fight. The hypothetical trans person above just goes "I'm trans." The hypothetical gun owner just gets their coffee. Someone goes "whatever man" and they listen.
 

Eremurus

seeker of knowledge
Weird thread lol.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
@Attaman - I'm talking the people who don't want to stir shit who aren't allowed to just live in peace. Like the guy you were arguing with (or the concept of the guy I've now invented). He basically said "I want to be able to tell people "go away with your politics" and have them do that." So not have some tell them repeatedly "you can't avoid it! you can't avoid it! I'm going to make sure of it!." It's people missing that they're stirring shit by insisting there's a problem when there isn't. Then getting mad when they get hit back.

And I do see this all the time. The alphabet mafia is really bad at doing it. Posts like "I'm trans, fight me! FUCK YOU!" and similar. Lots of folks don't care that you're trans, but as soon as you start getting that aggressive, they care because it's an implied attack against them. When folks complain about "shoving it down their throat" it's not wearing a pride flag, or talking with a lisp. It's this "looking for a fight, and making one if there isn't" trend that's very common, particularly on online forums. To flip sides, people don't necessarily care if you're carrying a gun, but they absolute do care when you start (metaphorically or not) screaming in someone's face "COME AND TAKE IT."

Your point, as I understand it, is politics are unavoidable, it's what happens when cultures collide. My point is politics are completely avoidable - you just... let things go. Someone says "I don't care" or "I don't want to talk about it" and that's it. You drop it. And when you post, you post as if there isn't going to be a fight. The hypothetical trans person above just goes "I'm trans." The hypothetical gun owner just gets their coffee. Someone goes "whatever man" and they listen.
Or they be a smart bean and click away? owo
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I think I'm starting to realize something and it's probably bigger than the fandom, really, but...

Having boundaries is now framed as a bad thing, at people's convenience.
 
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