• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

[POLL]Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?

Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?


  • Total voters
    91

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
@Attaman - I'm talking the people who don't want to stir shit who aren't allowed to just live in peace. Like the guy you were arguing with (or the concept of the guy I've now invented). He basically said "I want to be able to tell people "go away with your politics" and have them do that."
Which is a bit of a problem when some people's very existence is deemed political, and online spaces are increasingly consolidated to the point that the likelihood of hostile interaction approaches 1. There's only a handful of ways in which that situation can be resolved, and they all essentially tell somebody "Get stuffed" to varying degrees. We're increasingly entering a situation wherein people basically have to decide who they're willing to step on the toes of, as again "Crammed like sardines". "Do I step on the toes of people who just want to post their totally-not-them fursona / persona / author avatar / whatever? Do I step on the toes of the people who believe the former to be actively trying to antagonize them? Do I step on the toes of the people who'd wish the first two would just shut up? Do I step on the toes of the people who think the third category is by requisite taking a side in one of the two, on top of the third and one of the first two? Do I..."

Would it make you feel better if I focus on that Wheelchair example again? Y'know, the one where D&D players had a meltdown over somebody writing rules for a magitech wheelchair? Because we can drop the LGBTQA+ point entirely if you'd prefer or you think there's a bigger point to be made on that one than the one I'm trying to make.
Your point, as I understand it, is politics are unavoidable, it's what happens when cultures collide. My point is politics are completely avoidable - you just... let things go.
See above. In this hypothetical world in which you speak, people would not be sending death threats over somebody having a wheelchair for their D&D character. Now, this isn't to say that this couldn't or wouldn't happen 10+ years ago (the internet has always been a 'magical' place), but as communities are increasingly pushed together, consolidated, and otherwise interlinked in one fashion or another, again the odds of it happening to any one person increasingly approach 1.

All of the above not being fandom specific, but examples of how online spaces have changed over the last decade and why this could understandably cause some frustration to bleed over into fandom spaces.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I think I'm starting to realize something and it's probably bigger than the fandom, really, but...

Having boundaries is now framed as a bad thing, at people's convenience.

I get this allllllllllllll the time.
"YOU DONT WANNA HANG OUT WITH ME ANYMORE, WHY??!?! BECAUSE YOU THINK YOURE BETTER THAN ME?!?!"
"No, it's because you're drunk and you do drugs and I don't deal with that scene and your buddies over there have literally slashed their wrists over something while on coke."

"I'm not really into hearing the specifics about your vagina, sorry."
"What, are you actually hetero???"

People be whack, yo.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I get this allllllllllllll the time.
"YOU DONT WANNA HANG OUT WITH ME ANYMORE, WHY??!?! BECAUSE YOU THINK YOURE BETTER THAN ME?!?!"
"No, it's because you're drunk and you do drugs and I don't deal with that scene and your buddies over there have literally slashed their wrists over something while on coke."

"I'm not really into hearing the specifics about your vagina, sorry."
"What, are you actually hetero???"

People be whack, yo.
I'm reminded of something people with ASDs can occasionally have trouble picking up on. Think of all the ways people signal discomfort, or unhappiness or that kind of thing without actually using words to say "I'M UNCOMFORTABLE". Tone. Posture/body language. Facial expressions.

What's absent in most communication on the internet?
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Sorry for the double post, but this might make things a bit easier to comprehend what my point is: Among our United States residential members, imagine your extended family. Any surviving parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews, cousins, et al. In ideal circumstances, you will only really interact with each other when you want to. If you're on good terms with somebody you'll speak with them more often. If you're on bad terms, you'll speak with them less... if at all! Why am I specifying US members? Hear me out for a couple more moments.

Now, you have this situation. Everyone with their own various leans and perspectives. Their own buttons (some of which some family members will know, and some of which others won't). Their own personal lives, their own gripes and grievances, etcetera.

With the above in mind, consider ye ol' Holiday Dinner. Thanksgiving being the one I'll use here, as while it isn't celebrated universally across the US it's still common enough and crosses the main religious barriers that many have probably experienced it at least once.

Normally, Thanksgiving Dinner can get a bit... terse, at times. But people reign it in. It's a once a year thing, people are often busy focusing on various things (prep for other holidays, cooking, eating, et al)... trouble might boil over, but it's notable when it boils into something serious instead of "[x] and [y] are just irritably agreeing to disagree".

Only now imagine Thanksgiving Dinner doesn't end. And that it's increasingly difficult to privately seek out and speak with fellow guests. And that this situation persists for weeks, months. Start including some of you and your family (immediate and extended's) coworkers and / or friends. And some of theirs too.

This is the powder keg I'm referring to with the above regarding how online spaces have developed. People who normally would only interact during specific events or when interests coincide are being crammed for prolonged times into contact with people whom at best they didn't really know much about, and at worst know enough about to really not want to deal with.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I'm reminded of something people with ASDs can occasionally have trouble picking up on. Think of all the ways people signal discomfort, or unhappiness or that kind of thing without actually using words to say "I'M UNCOMFORTABLE". Tone. Posture/body language. Facial expressions.

What's absent in most communication on the internet?

All of those! :D

But when I tell people I tend to be blunt and direct. But for whatever reason, it's like 'yea but I thought when you said that you were joking' or some stupid nonsense that I'm expected to believe.
 

RAM

Well-Known Member
TanLastGemsbuck-max-1mb.gif


Anyway, I don't know if it's gotten worse or better because I've never been a devoted and well-invested member of the furry fandom for any appreciable amount of time. "IDK" was my poll answer.

What I do know is that the furry fandom typically hosts significantly higher numbers of people who are mentally ill and socially maladjusted than what you see in the general real world population. This was bound to happen since this subculture practices a sort of "big tent" admissions policy when it comes to prospective members maneuvering their way into it. All the broken things of the world have to go somewhere so a lot of them wind up flocking here. Bad move from the beginning and now the chickens have come home to roost.

And because of how absolutely busted a lot of furries are, I tend to vet them with extreme prejudice when considering one of them for casual or close association. The very moment I detect overt signs of profound mental illness (BPD, narcissism, sociopathy, and severe clinical depression are my top four deal breakers for this category) or that they exhibit the inability to turn the politics/horny off for two seconds, I gradually disassociate with this person and eventually move on.

And don't even get me started on what the deal breakers are for the RL scene. Let's just say that my corporeal existence is extremely stable for one reason and one reason only: I blackball about 90% of humans from having any direct influence upon it.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
@Attaman Yes, there are assholes out there. Yes, people lost their shit over a wheelchair. We also do give trolls way too much air time. And yes, it seems everyone's looking to fight.

But here's the thing - we can make it better by, when people who aren't actively stirring shit, honestly go "I want to divorce myself from this" we let them. Not those who say "trans people are unnatural" followed by "I'm not trying to be political" but the folks who say "tone it down" in non-political threads, the ones who get annoyed when you turn every chat into whatever pet issue you have, the one's who honestly say "I don't care" to whatever flavor of gender you are. What's being asked for is their request to be heard and listened to, which, as I pointed out, you completely ignored previously.

And it can also be made better by not expecting a fight whenever anything is said. There are enough people who want to be assholes, we don't need to invent reasons for new ones.

Edit: To work with you analogy. At Thanksgiving you know your uncle doesn't like LGBT folks, but he generally accepts all your gay cousins. You seem to advocate that, say you bring something up and he goes "Not today" you continue, regardless. What I'm saying is when your Uncle goes "Not today" you listen and shut up.
 

Kinguyakki

Alignment: Chaotic Stupid
I get this allllllllllllll the time.
"YOU DONT WANNA HANG OUT WITH ME ANYMORE, WHY??!?! BECAUSE YOU THINK YOURE BETTER THAN ME?!?!"
"No, it's because you're drunk and you do drugs and I don't deal with that scene and your buddies over there have literally slashed their wrists over something while on coke."

"I'm not really into hearing the specifics about your vagina, sorry."
"What, are you actually hetero???"

People be whack, yo.
This is accurate.

My existence as myself is not intended to cancel out anyone else's. The fact I don't want to ERP another person's fetish with them doesn't mean I hate them or am anti-whatever-fetish-they-have. It just means their fetish doesn't interest me and they need to find a RP partner who has similar preferences.

There is an abundance of over-sharing in the fandom. It's not that there aren't people who want to talk about more personal issues or preferences or fetishes or fantasies. There are. There are probably a lot of them.

The problem is that many of them don't have a filter and they think everyone wants to discuss it. They offer it unsolicited to total strangers, and some do get offended when that stranger backs off and says "no, thanks, not my thing."

Part of that is immaturity. Like ASTA said, the community harbors a lot of mental disorders. In many ways it's like a safe place, because you're surrounded by people who may be more understanding. But, it also means that you're going to run into a lot of people who don't know how to process their feelings when someone doesn't agree with them, and they get. . .dramatic.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
This is accurate.

My existence as myself is not intended to cancel out anyone else's. The fact I don't want to ERP another person's fetish with them doesn't mean I hate them or am anti-whatever-fetish-they-have. It just means their fetish doesn't interest me and they need to find a RP partner who has similar preferences.

There is an abundance of over-sharing in the fandom. It's not that there aren't people who want to talk about more personal issues or preferences or fetishes or fantasies. There are. There are probably a lot of them.

The problem is that many of them don't have a filter and they think everyone wants to discuss it. They offer it unsolicited to total strangers, and some do get offended when that stranger backs off and says "no, thanks, not my thing."

Part of that is immaturity. Like ASTA said, the community harbors a lot of mental disorders. In many ways it's like a safe place, because you're surrounded by people who may be more understanding. But, it also means that you're going to run into a lot of people who don't know how to process their feelings when someone doesn't agree with them, and they get. . .dramatic.

Indeed. I mostly just assume it's embarrassment. People tend to get angry when they feel humiliated.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Indeed. I mostly just assume it's embarrassment. People tend to get angry when they feel humiliated.
I mean, it IS a two way street. People also get angry (sometimes) when they get information they have no idea what to do with or no interest in dumped on them.

Regarding poor socialization, this is not a furry specific problem, and while some people have the deck stacked against them from square one and others get dealt repeated bad hands later that lead to the issue... the fact is that other people can be fucking terrible at getting them socialized and functional. Finding ways to improve social skills involves a LOT more bumps and bruises for the laggards if they are inclined to try (and frankly without them you're right fooked).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I mean, it IS a two way street. People also get angry (sometimes) when they get information they have no idea what to do with or no interest in dumped on them.

Regarding poor socialization, this is not a furry specific problem, and while some people have the deck stacked against them from square one and others get dealt repeated bad hands later that lead to the issue... the fact is that other people can be fucking terrible at getting them socialized and functional. Finding ways to improve social skills involves a LOT more bumps and bruises for the laggards if they are inclined to try (and frankly without them you're right fooked).

I mean yea. I grew up isolated and not allowed to go and hang out with peeps. Aside from the typical 'what rock have you been living under' I had to learn all kinds of shit like with job hunting, on my own. It was brutal.

When people ask me "What are your hobbies" I answered honestly. :') But of course, I know now, they don't actually give a shit about your personality and well-being, just how it related to the job.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I mean yea. I grew up isolated and not allowed to go and hang out with peeps. Aside from the typical 'what rock have you been living under' I had to learn all kinds of shit like with job hunting, on my own. It was brutal.

When people ask me "What are your hobbies" I answered honestly. :') But of course, I know now, they don't actually give a shit about your personality and well-being, just how it related to the job.
When I first encountered the usual "How are you today?" that was not asked out of any sincere interest in a business environment I answered with an "I'm fine, you?" because I'm honestly rather paranoid about telling coworkers or superiors a single damned thing about what's inside my head at any given moment.

It's not because I gave a shit about the process of niceties and pretending to care. I legit loathe it. I loathe hollow niceties and pointless questions. I loathe the concept of filling empty air with emptier speech. I dislike the fact that people view it as some kind of necessity for social function. But I'm stuck in here with them, not the other way around. I do it because it's because it's the quickest way to get them to fuck off and go away. There, I said your idiot magic words, fuck off, I have a job to do. It actually rather dismays me when I think about it - the correct response for casual interpersonal interactions is to be so guarded and paranoid that you mask absolutely EVERY POSSIBLE INDICATOR that you might not be happy, or might not be comfortable, or whatever, just to end it as quickly as possible and go about your day. That's how insufferable people are. Shame they're as useful as they are, and bigger shame that you start to genuinely like some of them, but such is life. (This is only partially tongue in cheek, really - I hate using people and I feel shitty about sorting people mentally by utility, but fuck it, if I'm sticking around you're either useful enough to put up with or nice enough to just enjoy the company of and most people ain't that nice)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
When I first encountered the usual "How are you today?" that was not asked out of any sincere interest in a business environment I answered with an "I'm fine, you?" because I'm honestly rather paranoid about telling coworkers or superiors a single damned thing about what's inside my head at any given moment.

It's not because I gave a shit about the process of niceties and pretending to care. I legit loathe it. I loathe hollow niceties and pointless questions. I loathe the concept of filling empty air with emptier speech. I dislike the fact that people view it as some kind of necessity for social function. But I'm stuck in here with them, not the other way around. I do it because it's because it's the quickest way to get them to fuck off and go away. There, I said your idiot magic words, fuck off, I have a job to do. It actually rather dismays me when I think about it - the correct response for casual interpersonal interactions is to be so guarded and paranoid that you mask absolutely EVERY POSSIBLE INDICATOR that you might not be happy, or might not be comfortable, or whatever, just to end it as quickly as possible and go about your day. That's how insufferable people are. Shame they're as useful as they are, and bigger shame that you start to genuinely like some of them, but such is life. (This is only partially tongue in cheek, really - I hate using people and I feel shitty about sorting people mentally by utility, but fuck it, if I'm sticking around you're either useful enough to put up with or nice enough to just enjoy the company of and most people ain't that nice)

Ugh... 99% of customer service. I hate puffing air. I hate making it sound like I give a shit. I'm not angry at them, and I certainly don't wish them any ill will, I definitely don't take my problems out on them, but I definitely don't go around sounding like a voice over in a commercial when I go home. I can make face and be polite, but at such a high demand? It's exhausting. Especially with the introversion and depression, sometimes it hits so hard I can barely fake a smile. But of course it's interpreted as rude, because I should be 'grateful' they're even spending their money there!

I love the job I'm at because it's half cash, half sales floor. No other place I have worked has ever been like that. It gives me a bit of time talking to keep from getting rusty and I get to stretch my legs. But the people there make me wanna quit. 8) Everything is a competition, especially since I went and pulled items off the shelf that were two years expired... they basically got called out for slacking and they haven't treated me kindly since. XD

I prefer to do my job and just go home. If something comes up, cool. But I don't like talking about the weather, or what your friends niece did over the weekend.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I remember someone getting shitty at me when I was dragged to a party and spent about 75 percent of it with the host's cat because I was being unsociable, and why can't I just be as nice to people as I am to animals. I answered something to the effect of "worst thing an animal ever did to me was bite or kick me, those usually heal up within a week or two".

I despise being phony and I consider being expected to be phony to others to be an affront - fuck sales/customer facing. I may not like people but I don't like lying to them or hurting them.
 

Eremurus

seeker of knowledge
It's just weird how people can perceive entire subcultures as monolithic- they are comprised of individuals. On most platforms, well, there are tools designed to help you avoid people you find unsavory, and to also report their content if it breaches ToS. You can't really expect anything more to happen. The internet is a very large place, and people form their own pockets all the time.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
It's just weird how people can perceive entire subcultures as monolithic- they are comprised of individuals. On most platforms, well, there are tools designed to help you avoid people you find unsavory, and to also report their content if it breaches ToS. You can't really expect anything more to happen. The internet is a very large place, and people form their own pockets all the time.
You're probably a thousand times more likely to trip over the stereotypical cumbrained uwu no-sense-of-boundaries furry with STRONG OPINIONS in general online spaces than any other type, if you're an outsider to the fandom, and this perception attracts MORE cumbrains with OPINIONS to the fandom which creates a feedback loop
 

Kinguyakki

Alignment: Chaotic Stupid
Within the fandom - I think the "popufur" culture has gotten worse. Not just in the more obvious cases of followers defending someone for doing really abhorrent things, but also in situations where a "popufur" has completely taken advantage of their own followers, guilting them into financial support even while making horrible remarks aimed at those who struggle with behavioral or learning issues in everyday life.

I'm not totally against "popufurs" themselves - just the cult-like mentality of some of the followers.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Which is a bit of a problem when some people's very existence is deemed political
That's what CRT creeps do with EVERY SINGLE GROUP, they make EVERYBODY's identity fully political. Maybe instead of forcing politics on everybody it would be quicker, smoother and less absurd to just kick these people out, all of them.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
Within the fandom - I think the "popufur" culture has gotten worse. Not just in the more obvious cases of followers defending someone for doing really abhorrent things, but also in situations where a "popufur" has completely taken advantage of their own followers, guilting them into financial support even while making horrible remarks aimed at those who struggle with behavioral or learning issues in everyday life.

I'm not totally against "popufurs" themselves - just the cult-like mentality of some of the followers.
This one isn’t quite fandom specific so much as an unfortunate change to the internet in general. See the fifty thousand articles on predatory parasocial relationships courted on sites like YouTube and Twitch which actively reward users for both funneling followers’ money into their pockets and dress it up for said followers by giving bells and whistles of unique emoji and private posts and whatnot.
 
Top