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[POLL]Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?

Has the fandom changed in worse or in better over the years?


  • Total voters
    84
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Wowza talk about a farmer who harvested his crop before it was ready to pop.

Frank you talk on CRT as if you only got your information about CRT from red talking heads in America. Which is to say is made up and sensationalized to create fervor and outrage.
You yell about biting into a half baked cake because its mush and batter but you didnt even go to the right bakery.
Recommend an author on the subject.
 

Connor J. Coyote

¥otie ¥otezer
You yell about biting into a half baked cake because its mush and batter but you didnt even go to the right bakery.
The right baker, always makes the best cakes.... I think Frank just needs to shop around some more.

Anyways, at the local Safeway - these were kinda awesome this week.... they were part of the $ Five-Dollar Friday deals.... where the whole thing costs five bucks.... (on Friday only though).

960390534
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Wowza talk about a farmer who harvested his crop before it was ready to pop.

Frank you talk on CRT as if you only got your information about CRT from red talking heads in America. Which is to say is made up and sensationalized to create fervor and outrage.
You yell about biting into a half baked cake because its mush and batter but you didnt even go to the right bakery.
Oh yeah I know, only other people are biased! never whoever it is you listen to! (which is exactly how you make a bias, speaking of recipes)

I bet you didn't even notice you went straight to assumptions about where I got my information without knowing anything about it.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Oh yeah I know, only other people are biased! never whoever it is you listen to! (which is exactly how you make a bias, speaking of recipes)

I bet you didn't even notice you went straight to assumptions about where I got my information without knowing anything about it.
If they want to argue that people who dislike CRT have never read the right CRT sources it behooves them to direct people towards correct sources, I am rather tired of anyone making this sort of assertion about any given controversial subject and then failing on that important followup

It smacks of someone who just wants to tell people with concerns about controversial subjects "nuh uh, you're just too dumb to appreciate it and listen to the right people!" which is a behavior that needs to come to a screeching fucking halt

And yes there are some pretty understandable concerns about the subjects of CRT, "antiracism" and the things that people like Kendi have said. Anyone who makes those kinds of blanket accusations aimed at adoptive parents of all people, just to get at ONE JUDGE is going to come across as a maladjusted asshole because he IS
 
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Minerva_Minx

Succumbing to her own psychosis
*munches popcorn*
Think I've seen this flick. Is this a reboot or bad pre-sequel?

This is why I'm sticking with "fandom is the same, topics change, and we still find a way to make every day Thanksgiving"
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
*munches popcorn*
Think I've seen this flick. Is this a reboot or bad pre-sequel?

This is why I'm sticking with "fandom is the same, topics change, and we still find a way to make every day Thanksgiving"
Yeah, it's a repeat and it doesn't seem to matter how many I put on ignore there's always another ready to roll through and stoke THIS particular fire. I've got my dander up after last night and I'm getting sick of this, so let's see if they're up for a fight.
 

Attaman

"I say we forget this business and run."
I mean, if people are really going to ask for some sources to read up on a subject matter, I'll suggest Race and Ethnicity in America by Ronald H. Bayor. Includes contributions from numerous historians, including Carol Berkin, Andrew Heinze, Earl Lewis, and Mai M. Ngai. It was written in 2003 and covers a wide breadth of subjects such as the Trail of Tears, slavery, anti-catholicism, etcetera. And again it was written in 2003 so if people are afraid some dastardly modern politics slipping in the book's just shy of 18 years old at this point (another month and it'll be old enough to vote!).

E: And before anyone snipes "But what about CRT?" That is it. That's literally CRT. Well, sorry. It's that plus asking "What does that make you think?" But if you're reading books without any intention of thinking you're missing the forest for the trees anyhow.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
If they want to argue that people who dislike CRT have never read the right CRT sources it behooves them to direct people towards correct sources, I am rather tired of anyone making this sort of assertion about any given controversial subject and then failing on that important followup

It smacks of someone who just wants to tell people with concerns about controversial subjects "nuh uh, you're just too dumb to appreciate it and listen to the right people!" which is a behavior that needs to come to a screeching fucking halt

And yes there are some pretty understandable concerns about the subjects of CRT, "antiracism" and the things that people like Kendi have said. Anyone who makes those kinds of blanket accusations aimed at adoptive parents of all people, just to get at ONE JUDGE is going to come across as a maladjusted asshole because he IS
Well those people support discrimination blatantly, and I judge people primarily by what they do.

But yeah I find it telling that someone would accuse me of being biased, but showcase their own bias instead of even attempting to explain why they think I'm wrong (IF they think I'm wrong; someone knowing they're actually on the wrong side, but defending it anyway, is also a possibility, which is more likely if they won't discuss the topic but instead just blanket-dismiss any concern)
 

Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
E: And before anyone snipes "But what about CRT?" That is it. That's literally CRT. Well, sorry. It's that plus asking "What does that make you think?" But if you're reading books without any intention of thinking you're missing the forest for the trees anyhow.
There is a major, MAJOR difference between "here's the racial problems this country has had" and "you did all this, your group is irredeemable".

While I'll consider the book down the road, the main issue with CRT that I've noticed is the method of delivery, not the content. It usually boils down to two scenarios:
  • The person delivering the history tells ONLY the history the overall "dominant" group has done. No mention of other groups doing oppression (hoo boy), nor whether one group influenced the other. JUST all about trashing the "dominant" group.
  • The person delivering the history immediately dismisses counter-arguments that would let them think about either other groups doing the oppression or whether the "dominant" group has left a mark that taints the targeted group's culture. OR, even more crazily, whether minor groups' beliefs influenced the dominant group in the first place (this is where complaints of "cultural appropriation" fit in). If I have to un-spaghetti this one, PLEASE speak up.
In short, my guess is that Frank ran into the kind of people teaching CRT that aren't intellectually qualified to be teaching it in the first place.


Now (and this question is for Frank too) can we PLEASE get this topic back to the nature of the fandom specifically?
 

Regret

Insert Witticism Here
Subtle commentary about voting in general goes here, for some.

Nothing subtle about it because the beautiful 14, 22, 22, 14 voting pattern has since been destroyed.

May it forever live on in our hearts.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
Nothing subtle about it because the beautiful 14, 22, 22, 14 voting pattern has since been destroyed.

May it forever live on in our hearts.
The more I think about the concept of voting, in general really, on any scale (forum or otherwise), the sillier and more absurd it looks/feels.
 

Christine Vulpes

SnowFox or NoFox
I think its gotten a little worse.
But some of that can be explained by missing it evolve in my 10+ year absence. A lot has changed. I am also fairly modest I guess on some things.

There used to be a more tight knit feeling to forums, and growing and changing talking to the same people for years and years. Forums were the rage, and you had a post legacy more or less where anyone could fall back on your previous comments and get to know you.

Now with the push to more IM based groups, discord, telegram, etc I feel you lost a little bit of that. We had IRC, and MSN, and such back when...but those were additional over the forums that seemed to just gather the most traffic.

I have tried to get back into things locally, but I think I have aged out of some of the furry scene as am the oldest in my local group. There is a lot more public exhibition than I recall there being, and while there was always drama with furries, it seems there's a lot more attention seeking based drama than I recall. There seems to be a little bit more invasion of personal space than I really recall ( I get my butt grabbed, which if I know you I guess thats fine... But people also pick me up because I am small...I do NOT like this). Some people are just really aggressively thirsty too and my private messages there for a while got pretty annoying.

there also seems to be a lot more fetishizing of some aspects that, don't sit well with me. People are free to like what they like...but don't try and push it on others or rationalize to everyone.

and oh gawd the politics. I come to the furry fandom to get away from real life, not be slapped in the face with it...
 

lolox

Active Member
@Christine Vulpes

Wow, you just summed up things perfectly. At least the way I see them.

It's hard to tell if I feel different [about today] because I'm getting older, or because things truly are not the same as they used to be. That tight knit feeling of being part of something isn't really a feeling I get anymore, especially not on modern social media sites. Twitter and similar networks just feel like an unordered torrent of chaos. Anything shared there is just tossed into the wind and instantly forgotten. I get no sense of community from those, only a sense of isolation. Nothing really seems to matter and nothing really goes anywhere. Discussions can't have depth, or even if they do, it doesn't matter because it's all just temporary entertainment for people that crave constant stimulation. It's no wonder people feel so bad today, if nothing is of consequence. If the only way to be seen is to do something outrageous, and even then, it won't matter. I think we need that sense of belonging and meaning, and Twitter (and the like) provides neither. It only makes you unhappy.

The fandom used to be about escapism - about dreaming yourself away to a different world inhabited by these wonderful anthropomorphic beings. And now, instead, people exploit it to further whatever dogma they happen to have fallen victim for, whether that be political or religious. It creeps me out, and it makes me very upset and disappointed people would tarnish it that way.
 

Firuthi Dragovic

Gamer Dragon, former speedrunner
I cannot speak much for the rest of the fandom, or whether they have eluded the overall sickness plaguing society...

I can at least say that my experience here has improved considerably since I started.
 

Christine Vulpes

SnowFox or NoFox
@lolox
Some of it I think is the local (American - especially since there seems to be a disproportionally large American furry user base) climate right now. We have loved our labels and trying to force people into neat categories for a long time. This in itself creates in groups, out groups, and leads to a tendency to other... others. If you don't fit into someone's pre-defined category for you (whatever this may entail) someone comes along to bash you over it. 'no true scotsman' fallacy / purity testing seems to be popular these days.

I though the fandom would be a place that would discourage this type of behavior, but it seems that it really is just a small slice of the real world condensed down. Maybe years ago I just did not see it, or people hid it better. Maybe I was just dumb, or maybe now I am just jaded and cynical. I dunno.

The fandom used to be great because we did not seem to engage in that as much. Everyone was free to make up a new persona, leaving baggage behind. No gods, no masters, no countries, no allegiances. Just us starting a new life online to meet friends in a fantasy setting of our choosing. Maybe its an interstellar space opera! Maybe its a high fantasy realm! Maybe its a technocratic cyber punk future! Maybe its a jules verne like steam punk world we never had!

Just a bunch of weirdos with common interests in the love of anthro-animals. I hope here re-kindles this for me, instead of how toxic some local groups have become.

@Firuthi Dragovic
I am glad that for you it has improved considerably. Would you be inclined to share why that is? I like hearing things that are positive :)
 

Crimcyan

Chum bucket with the u
I'd say better because alot of people have stopped putting up with zoophiles, pedo's, homophobes/transphobes making them not welcomed in spaces in the fandom.
Alot more support towards artists by not putting them down when they try to raise prices but supporting the price raises.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
I'd say better because alot of people have stopped putting up with zoophiles, pedo's, homophobes/transphobes making them not welcomed in spaces in the fandom.
Alot more support towards artists by not putting them down when they try to raise prices but supporting the price raises.
Most furry artists work for a FRACTION of what an artist of their caliber would make in almost any other sphere

Also, while I want there to be MUCH less of a predator problem in the fandom, I also want kids to stay out of the Red Light Districts of the fandom and part of me wonders if having a bad rep because of people like Growly facilitates this or not even in his potential permanent absence from said fandom.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
Most furry artists work for a FRACTION of what an artist of their caliber would make in almost any other sphere
This. 99% of my observation/experience is "you seriously want $30 for a drawing I can't even hang up on my wall???".

Also, while I want there to be MUCH less of a predator problem in the fandom, I also want kids to stay out of the Red Light Districts of the fandom and part of me wonders if having a bad rep because of people like Growly facilitates this or not even in his potential permanent absence from said fandom.

I was already in the Red Light district as a minor because I was curious.

And then I learned what a furry was...
 

Rayd

profound asshole
i've been in the fandom for around 6 years, and although i don't particularly believe it's changed all that much, i don't think it's been very great to begin with. it felt fine for the first year or two but i think that's just because i was blinded by my excitement for being apart of something i was interested in for a long time. i was blind to the things that later felt wrong to me.

i do agree with the high school comparison, and i don't think it's a coincidence that it's brought up so often when referring to this fandom. it's very obvious to see that artists are idolized and basically can do no wrong in the eyes of the general community, and if somebody calls them out for bad business etiquette or something they did, they're the bad guy. there are also a lot of artists that use this untouchable status as a dishonest utility use in their work, such as ghosting people who commissioned them for months because they know they can, with or without an excuse. there's a lot of dishonest things that i think artists do solely to abuse their status and it gets under my skin. i often feel i can't even vent about this topic because i'm scared i'll get crucified. that just goes to show how much power artists really have.

similarly, it has always seemed to me that people who have the time and money to commission 50 pieces of their sona a month are also treated with a certain level of praise, who more often than not only seem to interact with those with similar activity or status. it's hard not to feel a sense of hierarchy when you constantly see that the people with lots of friends, attention and status privileges are typically those with lots of money or a talented skillset. but i suppose thats the case with life in general, so i try my best not to complain.

i've also had continuously repetitive poor experiences in the social side of this fandom to the point where i have this genuine subconscious belief that most of the people in it are manipulative, sociopathic, egocentric and vindictive people. this has made me extremely apprehensive towards going out of my way to meet new people and being outgoing. the way i see it nowadays, trying to socialize in any sort of furry community is like playing minesweeper to me. i've not found a friend that has lasted yet and frankly i'm not counting on it anytime soon.

i guess the one thing off the top of my head that has changed is that there's definitely not as many people wanting others to literally die over political beliefs. i remember when twitter was palatable.
 
O

O.D.D.

Guest
most of the people in it are manipulative, sociopathic, egocentric and vindictive people
They are, yes. The fandom is self-selecting for this in a lot of ways - you're not here to show your real face, most likely, or be your real self. You're here to put on a mask, so to speak, and while some are here for a masquerade ball, others are here to hurt people.
 
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