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Predators and Prey

Ravofox

Ravofox

back to Aussie foxying!
DRGN Juno said:
The plane deserves a fair amount of criticism as well. The reason it's having issues is because of the newer, larger engines that were fitted, changing the centre of thrust which was a significant modification of the plane's handling characteristics. MCAS was a bandaid to correct the plane's new nose up tendency that it shouldn't have been allowed to be certified with for starters, and it wasn't even properly introduced. This was entirely Boeing's attempt to cash in on the success of the A320NEO which was selling like hotcakes, and they got lazy. It should have been a clean sheet design. Hell, they even had problems going from the 500 to 600 variants when they released the 737NG because the larger turbofans couldn't be accommodated, so they had to make those 'hamster pouch' nacelles just so the engines wouldn't hit the ground when they upgraded from the ancient turbojets.

Wow, that took a lot more words than I thought.

-1

-10
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Oh, I certainly agree the plane (or rather, it's bad design) deserves a lot of the blame. I was pointing out that it was more complicated than the 'deathtrap' depiction which was common in the media, as well as the glossing over of the other factors in the crashes. Nonetheless, that was a very interesting description of the exact issues with the plane and how they arose, I've really learned a lot, thanks:)

YAAAY, another pred win!!! *flexes muscles which have grown from going to the gym:p*
 
Breyo

Breyo

Professional Nibbler
Ravofox

Ravofox

back to Aussie foxying!
Actual photo of me right now:

images

:D
 
DRGN Juno

DRGN Juno

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA -Sukhoi, 2020
Ravofox said:
Oh, I certainly agree the plane (or rather, it's bad design) deserves a lot of the blame. I was pointing out that it was more complicated than the 'deathtrap' depiction which was common in the media, as well as the glossing over of the other factors in the crashes. Nonetheless, that was a very interesting description of the exact issues with the plane and how they arose, I've really learned a lot, thanks:)

YAAAY, another pred win!!! *flexes muscles which have grown from going to the gym:p*
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"Deathtrap" isn't accurate, "hackjob" is more appropriate. It's more complicated than one issue for sure, it's more like one bad idea that led to a series of bad ideas that weren't really properly explained to the end users. Really, the only thing I have to disagree in your original post with is the maintenance aspect. Both planes were in service for less than four months when they crashed. I can't find a figure on the Ethiopian 737, but the Lion Air jet had less than 900 hours on it when it crashed.

*Admires the Swolefox*
 
Ravofox

Ravofox

back to Aussie foxying!
DRGN Juno said:
"Deathtrap" isn't accurate, "hackjob" is more appropriate. It's more complicated than one issue for sure, it's more like one bad idea that led to a series of bad ideas that weren't really properly explained to the end users. Really, the only thing I have to disagree in your original post with is the maintenance aspect. Both planes were in service for less than four months when they crashed. I can't find a figure on the Ethiopian 737, but the Lion Air jet had less than 900 hours on it when it crashed.

*Admires the Swolefox*
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Totally agree!

Oh, in regard to maintenance, at least in the case of the Lionair, the same plane had the same malfunction on a previous flight, although the pilots managed to land. Lionair did a very poor maintenance job and the plane should not have been certified to fly, so there's that.

And thanks for your admiring glances:D

Spilogale Pygmaea said:
You're welcome! Don't worry, I'll be fine.

*Hugs you tightly*
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Hehe, ok! *hugs back, but not too tightly:p*
 
DRGN Juno

DRGN Juno

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA -Sukhoi, 2020
Ravofox said:
Totally agree!

Oh, in regard to maintenance, at least in the case of the Lionair, the same plane had the same malfunction on a previous flight, although the pilots managed to land. Lionair did a very poor maintenance job and the plane should not have been certified to fly, so there's that.

And thanks for your admiring glances:D
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Fair, I was completely prepared to rebut that, and then I realized I missed it. Which makes sense in retrospect, given Lion Air's history. Still though, the Ethiopian jet was airworthy and fell to the same faults. I think it's fair to call it a compounding factor.

E: Maintenance was a factor on Lion Air, but to explain why, I found the accident report for LNI610. The engineer replaced the AoA sensor (which was the correct action, and why I thought it wasn't a factor), but didn't calibrate it properly and it was off by 21 degrees. Boeing claims they can't verify that the part was replaced at all based on the test results, but the records state that an AoA sensor formerly belonging to a Malindo Air 737-900 was installed. It's up for debate whether it was replaced since they never found the remains of the sensor, but something was definitely not done properly in the AoA replacement. The conclusions start at page 204, and the relevant portions are on 209:

http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/baru/2018 - 035 - PK-LQP Final Report.pdf

Also, the Ethiopian preliminary report, if anyone's curious. Page 19 contains the maintenance history:

https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2019/20190310-0_B38M_ET-AVJ_PRELIM.pdf
 
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DRGN Juno

DRGN Juno

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA -Sukhoi, 2020
Manchesterite said:
Oh, we've reached this year! Good, good. Shame there won't be any more history factoids...
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That's what you think. This year in aviation history, Artemis 1 is planned to launch. It will be the first flight in NASA's Artemis program, and is an unmanned flight to certify the Orion spacecraft and SLS for crewed missions starting with Artemis 2. The Artemis program is NASA's return to the moon, intending to place the first female astronaut and next male astronaut on the moon. Additionally, this mission is intended to place infrastructure that will become the Lunar Gateway, facilitating resupply for future manned Mars missions.
 
Skittles

Skittles

Queen of FaF. Empress of Fløøf.
On this year. Queen Skittles annexes PvP and forms the joint kingdoms and the beginning of the Empire of LPW/PvP.

A brief non violent conflict follows and is resolved by the application of tea, coffee and various biscuits to placate the disgruntled furs.
 
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