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r/coontown...are you serious?

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Fallow, You seem to be using race and subspecies to mean two different things, while I'm taxonomy they are considered the same exact thing (or so the Internet and my one professor... okay well she was a a little unreliable... so yeah the Internet tells me)

As for those extreme valleys, those polymorphs, while having a cluster of genes as you described, could still genetically be considered the same species with a differing color pattern, if mating selection were to changed based on the color, in the sense that only the ones that have almost the exact color patterns mate, then I would say that they would be a subspecies because they could mate with each other but are isolated by sexual selection. I guess I would like to correct what I meant... it's not just a geographical isolation, but many others that could also account for not being able to reproduce with others of said species...

And for the last one, while it is true that it may be a mechanism for divergent evolution, separation doesn't always mean that they will evolve into another species; the peregrine falcon is spread throughout the world and it has yet to evolve into a new species.

I think 'race' is a vague term, while subspecies has a precise definition.

The Heliconius butterflies do mate preferentially with other butterflies who match their pattern: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3997309/
So that would suggest that each polymorph really deserves to be called a subspecies.

I agree that reproductive isolation is a better definition of a subspecies, although there are still some problems with this notion. For example Red deer and Sika deer, two separate species that never meet in the wild, can hybridise, and most Red deer in the UK are now hybrids...do Red and Sika deer stop being separate species now...were they ever separate species or just two races of the same deer?

I think the Human races are neither completely like the butterflies or completely like the deer examples. In this case there is a continuous population, with some 'partial barriers' to gene flow imposed by great distances, and differential selection of traits in different regions, resulting in 'fuzzy' races.
 

Astus

Well Known Foxxo
Okay I see your point clearly now Fallow, and now that I can see it I guess you're kind of right, though with all of the diversity of mating in biology, I find all of this taxonomy business to a little bit of a grey area especially when it comes to mating...

I imagine that most of the people who work in taxonomy don't get along :v
 
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