• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

RANT: Stop oversexualizing your fursonas; treat them like characters.

Status
Not open for further replies.

hara-surya

Deviated Prevert
Let's ignore that I don't have a fursona (my persona is the woman to the left) I think you don't understand why Furries get so much hate. They really don't, to be honest, an overwhelming vast majority of people either don't know they exist and if they do they think they see them as "harmless freaks" little different from people who dress like Klingons or in Stormtrooper armor. Most of the "hate" comes from parts of the Internet known for their extremely toxic hate-focused cultures and Furries are just another "Other" group they can hate.

Besides that, it's not difficult to develop highly sexualize characters with deep, complex back stories. One of my characters named Morgan was a kink porn star, who battled drug addiction, depression and living as the survivor of child sex abuse at the hand of her older sister (and just a generally shitty family) to become reasonably wealthy (from properly investing her porn money and selling her likeness to sex toy companies) and a small-business owner (an adult website focused on artistically shot female masturbation and realistic lesbian sex). Her backstory includes growing up knowing Hara/Sara and their stories intertwine from sharing a crib well into adulthood.

For that matter, while Hara/Sara's life is far more interesting than my own, she's not terribly different than me either and mental illness, poverty and relationship trouble is as a major part of her story as it is my own. And despite her friends and wife being steeped in kink sex, she's damn near sexless and cultivates the "lesbian aunt" look, which is a change from the androgynous look she'd had since she was 11yo. (In the summer of 1990 she convinced her parents to let her get her hair cut and dyed like Annie Lennox in the mid-1980s, in the late-1990s she went for the crew cut Dolores O'Riordan look and through the 2000s just kind of looked and dressed like a skinny man: she's always identified as a woman.)
 
Last edited:

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
@Azeleon (or anyone else agreeing with OP, sorry, Aze, you win on getting called out) I posed this to OP a while ago, but never got a response because they abandoned thread. Now, I know you don't like the porn, but whatever. I, however, think you're too eager to dismiss art that's pornographic as not telling a story. I know of, and have, plenty of characters that are generally depicted with their pants down, but in ways that tells a lot. You seem to have made the same mistake OP did - a lack of writing does not mean a lack of character. You can glean a ton from even one piece of art, assuming the details are there.

So, say we have art of a man and a woman banging in a locker room during the day. Well, damn, they're already playing with fire doing that so we know they're risk takers. Also none of this looks forced, so they probably know and like each other. Looks like a men's locker room, so we can probably conclude she's the bolder one. Ah, no wonder, she's in roller derby - those are skates on the ground in a bag that looks like hers - the color scheme matches her fur. And he's clearly an athlete too - look at those glutes. There's an open locker with some boxing gloves hanging down, so might be able to guess he's a boxer, or maybe MMA. So, we have two strong athletes who either have a particularly good relationship with this gym owner or they just don't care about getting caught. Probably then conclude they have a cocky, punk attitude. They're probably good too - super fit, not a ton of signs of injury. You'd expect a bandage or two from roller derby anyhow unless they're good at staying on their feet.

Now, everything I put their involves details that would need to be in the picture, but at the same point a bag or two and an open locker in a locker room isn't all that much to draw. If you're already doing a full background, this is not a stretch to assume someone who cares would put all that. But you can build a lot about a character from just one picture. A series might let you work out the relationships and other info. A different one might show the dude completely strapped up. Well, that might drive the idea she's the dominant one in the relationship further. This is all in visual storytelling, not writing. This told far more information than a picture of the two just standing around in some beat up jeans. And it was also porn.

So, are you sure there's no storytelling in porn, or are you not seeing it? If you're complaining you have to wade through a literal sea of dicks to learn a character, well, I might recommend wearing eye protection. That's not going away. If you're complaining there's too much porn without story, well, "draw better art" is hardly an opinion. Everyone's going to agree to that.

Personally, I think there's a lot of SFW art and all that, but it gets buried because sex sells. Personally, I think anyone (outside the fandom) giving furries shit for their porn oughtta check themselves. Don't see why furry porn is wrong, but hentai or even real porn is fine. In the end, it's all porn.
 

hara-surya

Deviated Prevert
@AzeleonSo, are you sure there's no storytelling in porn, or are you not seeing it?

FWIW, these days real life porn rarely has a story and if it does it's 2 minutes of pretense to get to 30 minutes of sex.

Some time in the late-1980s, when tape based video production got cheap, cameras got smaller and the market opened up because of home VHS, producers didn't need the pretense of a full movie to have a production budget and by the early-2000s with near-instant feedback on videos thanks to the Internet they realized what print porn had known for decades - people don't buy Playboy for the articles and people don't watch a porn video for the story. So, for the most part, they stopped trying to tell a story beyond what it would take to fulfill certain storyline-based kinks, i.e. Pseudo-incest, random pickup, casting couch, D/s, etc.

Having said that, I think a lot of visual Furry smut has more story behind it simply because the artist is rarely thinking "I'm paying these people $2,000 to have sex in this locker room set" and more "my characters, who I have some level of emotional attachment to, are having sex in the locker room in the gym they go to."
 

redhusky

Emperor of Floof! King of the Rats and Spamlord!
I personally highly dislike NSFW art and honestly believe it's a huge reason why the average person has a negative view of the furry fandom as a whole, and I've come across a fair share of unwanted art and such throughout my years in the fandom.
I think this sentence stands out the most and @Rimna said it the best:
"I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything."

This is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
FWIW, these days real life porn rarely has a story and if it does it's 2 minutes of pretense to get to 30 minutes of sex.

[Snip]

Having said that, I think a lot of visual Furry smut has more story behind it simply because the artist is rarely thinking "I'm paying these people $2,000 to have sex in this locker room set" and more "my characters, who I have some level of emotional attachment to, are having sex in the locker room in the gym they go to."

You do have a point that modern porn is a lot more about getting to the action than telling a story.

And yeah, even if its not communicated explicitly and clearly, the artist could probably explain how they got there, if asked. The short answer is I don't generally put long descriptions unless I've decided I need to put some sort of inane trivia in it, because who reads it? I try to be Brilliant, Brief and Gone.

In my description above, I'd consider this enough to tell a reasonably complete story:

"Minerva was going to shower in her locker room, but Felix was looking a bit pent up working out so she figured he wouldn't mind if she paid him a visit. It's not like anyone's around who cares, and if they do, well, they can always join."

Does this explain everything? No. But that's also a bit of the point. 12 paragraphs of explaining how they knew each other wouldn't add much for most people.

In this day and age of wikis, we forget that some times, the unknown is what makes a character interesting. Boba Fett was awesome because he was mysterious. He had like 5 lines and a beef with Han Solo, and that was basically all we got, but it was enough to cement him as an awesome character. A lack of explanation for everything is not, necessarily, a bad thing. It pays to leave stuff to the imagination.
 

hara-surya

Deviated Prevert
I think this sentence stands out the most and @RimnaThis is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.

To me, this is something that applies to life in general. Too many people worry so much about what others think of them that they make their lives - and other people's lives - miserable and don't even realize they're doing it.
 

hara-surya

Deviated Prevert
You do have a point that modern porn is a lot more about getting to the action than telling a story.

And yeah, even if its not communicated explicitly and clearly, the artist could probably explain how they got there, if asked. The short answer is I don't generally put long descriptions unless I've decided I need to put some sort of inane trivia in it, because who reads it? I try to be Brilliant, Brief and Gone.

In my description above, I'd consider this enough to tell a reasonably complete story:

"Minerva was going to shower in her locker room, but Felix was looking a bit pent up working out so she figured he wouldn't mind if she paid him a visit. It's not like anyone's around who cares, and if they do, well, they can always join."

Does this explain everything? No. But that's also a bit of the point. 12 paragraphs of explaining how they knew each other wouldn't add much for most people.

In this day and age of wikis, we forget that some times, the unknown is what makes a character interesting. Boba Fett was awesome because he was mysterious. He had like 5 lines and a beef with Han Solo, and that was basically all we got, but it was enough to cement him as an awesome character. A lack of explanation for everything is not, necessarily, a bad thing. It pays to leave stuff to the imagination.

I agree that most people don't want to read 12 paragraphs attached to a picture, but a few sentences building a narrative can work well. There's quite a few 3D comic artists who frame their comics with only a single image per page with a couple sentences of text underneath it. (I don't think you see that style so much with drawn art because of technical limitations to 3D renders.) I've written a running series of dialog on my pictures and gotten comments about how much it adds to the pictures, so YMMV.
 

Azeleon

gay lizard gang
@Azeleon (or anyone else agreeing with OP, sorry, Aze, you win on getting called out) I posed this to OP a while ago, but never got a response because they abandoned thread. Now, I know you don't like the porn, but whatever. I, however, think you're too eager to dismiss art that's pornographic as not telling a story. I know of, and have, plenty of characters that are generally depicted with their pants down, but in ways that tells a lot. You seem to have made the same mistake OP did - a lack of writing does not mean a lack of character. You can glean a ton from even one piece of art, assuming the details are there.

So, say we have art of a man and a woman banging in a locker room during the day. Well, damn, they're already playing with fire doing that so we know they're risk takers. Also none of this looks forced, so they probably know and like each other. Looks like a men's locker room, so we can probably conclude she's the bolder one. Ah, no wonder, she's in roller derby - those are skates on the ground in a bag that looks like hers - the color scheme matches her fur. And he's clearly an athlete too - look at those glutes. There's an open locker with some boxing gloves hanging down, so might be able to guess he's a boxer, or maybe MMA. So, we have two strong athletes who either have a particularly good relationship with this gym owner or they just don't care about getting caught. Probably then conclude they have a cocky, punk attitude. They're probably good too - super fit, not a ton of signs of injury. You'd expect a bandage or two from roller derby anyhow unless they're good at staying on their feet.

Now, everything I put their involves details that would need to be in the picture, but at the same point a bag or two and an open locker in a locker room isn't all that much to draw. If you're already doing a full background, this is not a stretch to assume someone who cares would put all that. But you can build a lot about a character from just one picture. A series might let you work out the relationships and other info. A different one might show the dude completely strapped up. Well, that might drive the idea she's the dominant one in the relationship further. This is all in visual storytelling, not writing. This told far more information than a picture of the two just standing around in some beat up jeans. And it was also porn.

So, are you sure there's no storytelling in porn, or are you not seeing it? If you're complaining you have to wade through a literal sea of dicks to learn a character, well, I might recommend wearing eye protection. That's not going away. If you're complaining there's too much porn without story, well, "draw better art" is hardly an opinion. Everyone's going to agree to that.

Personally, I think there's a lot of SFW art and all that, but it gets buried because sex sells. Personally, I think anyone (outside the fandom) giving furries shit for their porn oughtta check themselves. Don't see why furry porn is wrong, but hentai or even real porn is fine. In the end, it's all porn.
You definitely make a good point there, and I guess I might be a bit too harsh with my opinion, but to be frank, I guess I don't notice much story or time put into NSFW pieces because I simply dislike NSFW content and don't care to see it. Sounds unfair, and it probably is, but everyone's got their tastes and preferences.
Now it's totally okay of others like it though, I'm not stopping them. I'm sure there are plenty of NSFW pieces out there that tell a greater story than a SFW piece.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
I'm not here to convince you to like the porn. I'm not even sure how I'd do that if I wanted to. Send you all the best (gay?) porn artists?

It sounds to me your complaint is routed in porn gets too much attention and buries the SFW art. I'd offer that the solution to that isn't to complain about too much porn, but rather push for better SFW art. Unfortunately, a lot of the SFW I see is just as, if not more vapid, than a lot of the porn. And when it comes down to it, if you take two equally bland pictures, but one is NSFW and the other is SFW, the former will win out.
 

BlackDragonAJ89

Bumbling Everyman
Oh hey, I come back to this thread again...

It sounds to me your complaint is routed in porn gets too much attention and buries the SFW art. I'd offer that the solution to that isn't to complain about too much porn, but rather push for better SFW art. Unfortunately, a lot of the SFW I see is just as, if not more vapid, than a lot of the porn. And when it comes down to it, if you take two equally bland pictures, but one is NSFW and the other is SFW, the former will win out.

I'm kind of curious as to what you'd consider to be vapid in SFW art. Not because I want to downplay anything, but because I want to compare something...

Essentially, what I tend to find about a lot SFW art that isn't fetishy in nature is that it either tends to lack in visual storytelling or, as in my case, it just feels like a glorified character render that an animator or artist would use while creating a cartoon or comic.
 

rekcerW

Well-Known Member
The thing about being a furry, is that if you call yourself a furry, then you're officially a furry regardless of anything...

I get that it's aggravating to think about the fandom being associated with the actions of questionable individuals by ignorant people, but there's no kind of PSA you can put out or whatever the intention of this post may be to change that.

You'd have a better chance arguing with a brick wall.
 
P

Purplefuzz

Guest
I get that it's aggravating to think about the fandom being associated with the actions of questionable individuals by ignorant people, but there's no kind of PSA you can put out or whatever the intention of this post may be to change that.

The only cringe i see is furs being baited by people dumb enough that 18+ anthro art is too much but other 18+ fantasy art is suddenly okay or gets a pass.
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
I'm kind of curious as to what you'd consider to be vapid in SFW art. Not because I want to downplay anything, but because I want to compare something....

A dude in jeans and a T shirt on a flat background doesn't tell you much more than a dude with his sausage out on a flat background. Or hell, the same picture, but one has junk the other is smooth cartoon style. To put it this way - what would be a boring porn picture doesn't suddenly become deep and profound because they put pants on.

Edit: totally took the wrong part of your quote.
 
Last edited:

BlackDragonAJ89

Bumbling Everyman
The only cringe i see is furs being baited by people dumb enough that 18+ anthro art is too much but other 18+ fantasy art is suddenly okay or gets a pass.

Ah yes, the whole Werewolf/Anthro Wolf paradox. As far as I'm concerned, finding anything other than just humans and elves attractive already puts you in the furry tent. Orcs, trolls, goblins, naga, draenei, na'vi, tw'lek (whatever it's spelled as), etc...

A dude in jeans and a T shirt on a flat background doesn't tell you much more than a dude with his sausage out on a flat background. Or hell, the same picture, but one has junk the other is smooth cartoon style. To put it this way - what would be a boring porn picture doesn't suddenly become deep and profound because they put pants on.

Very much makes sense to me.
 
P

Purplefuzz

Guest
Ah yes, the whole Werewolf/Anthro Wolf paradox. As far as I'm concerned, finding anything other than just humans and elves attractive already puts you in the furry tent. Orcs, trolls, goblins, naga, draenei, na'vi, tw'lek (whatever it's spelled as), etc...

Get's worse when they stop replying when anthro media before the 80s is posted?. Killing that one claim the Something awful guys made how furries started in 2000.
 

BlackDragonAJ89

Bumbling Everyman
Get's worse when they stop replying when anthro media before the 80s is posted?. Killing that one claim the Something awful guys made how furries started in 2000.

If you get your ass kicked in a boxing match against Uwe Bowl, you have no authority or power as a comedian. The fact that the top editor of Something Awful got hilariously owned by the bumbling director years ago should tell you how Something Awful is all bark and no bite.
 
P

Purplefuzz

Guest
If you get your ass kicked in a boxing match against Uwe Bowl, you have no authority or power as a comedian. The fact that the top editor of Something Awful got hilariously owned by the bumbling director years ago should tell you how Something Awful is all bark and no bite.

The SA staff are dumb assholes, He had a meltdown when Reddit/twitter/more got so big that SA forums is forgotten artifact by site standards.
 

zidders

Well-Known Member
I'll make my character as hot as I want to, thanks. It's my character. If you're judging people negatively because they enjoy adult content and prefer their character look sexy they're not the one with the issue-you are. Besides, OP-you have no idea how much background people have put into those sexy characters or anything about what led them to enjoying that representation.

It's just more sex-negative gatekeepy BS.
 
P

Purplefuzz

Guest
I'll make my character as hot as I want to, thanks. It's my character. If you're judging people negatively because they enjoy adult content and prefer their character look sexy they're not the one with the issue-you are. Besides, OP-you have no idea how much background people have put into those sexy characters or anything about what led them to enjoying that representation.

It's just more sex-negative gatekeepy BS.

Truth, It one of the dumbest things going around online. Not just OP but you get non furs that make wonder if they skipped sex ED, Because even as a dude it gross that a fit D cup women = unrealistic anime girl. Then when their called out it becomes clear why their single not because of any high standards.

While others take pride shaming them while having audacity to cry why sex/nudity in the US is a instant NC - 17?. lol
 
D

Deleted member 82554

Guest
Question: can I oversexualise your fursona? Because that would be tops. I also love me a Bad Dragon. (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RAM

Jojer

Listener of Podcasts
Everyone has their own level of cringe. That space in your mind where you might identify with the group but not “those” people. Posts like this have been going on since furry was a thing. Anyone remember the Burn Furs movement from the 2000’s?

Burned Furs - WikiFur, the furry encyclopedia

I dunno. If you’re focusing hard on the things you’re seeing that keep bothering you, flip that SFW switch. It’s not perfect, but it will give you a break from it. Places like Furry Amino are SFW and full of non-sexual art if that’s what you’re into. You just gotta put in the work of tailoring you’re experience.
 

Filter

ɹǝʇlᴉℲ
I think this sentence stands out the most and @Rimna said it the best:
"I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything."

This is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.
Agreed. Have fun. Create stuff, commission stuff, whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy. Don't feel like you need to explain or defend what others may or may not be into.

People will see whatever they want to see. Especially when they have some kind of bias. Kind of like the people who think all popular music is about drugs. They'll find/imagine drug references wherever they look, regardless of what the song is actually about. If they actually cared to know the truth, they could find it easily enough.

... or, as in my case, it just feels like a glorified character render that an animator or artist would use while creating a cartoon or comic.
That might describe most furry art, now that you mention it. Not like that's necessarily a bad thing, though. At least not to me. I still see lots of potential in these glorified character renders, regardless of whether a cartoon or comic eventually is made.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top