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Redone design is recognized as worse than the old one [Help]

weblastwolf

New Member
Hello, this is my first post on this forum, nice to all

I did a drawing about a year ago, and decided to fix it by redoing it and fixing the portions, so I sent it to some friends to see what they said, however they said that the old drawing was worse, and I couldn't understand why this is happening, and I'm trying to understand why.

This is the old drawing I did / The rescente I made for corrections
old_one.png
androgen_003.png
 

mrmokhnach

Member
I personally find the new drawing to be better; it looks more confident and bold, the pose feels more natural than the old one, and your artistic choices seem to be more informed at this point. I think you've made quite some progress in a year!
I would only introduce one fix, which is to make the character's neck visible and longer, so that there's more space between the head and the shoulders. As for me, the chest doesn't seem to be foreshortened enough for the neck to be covered by the head completely.
That being said, I think you've improved a lot, and I really like how the new drawing turned out. Keep up the great work!
 

weblastwolf

New Member
I personally find the new drawing to be better; it looks more confident and bold, the pose feels more natural than the old one, and your artistic choices seem to be more informed at this point. I think you've made quite some progress in a year!
I would only introduce one fix, which is to make the character's neck visible and longer, so that there's more space between the head and the shoulders. As for me, the chest doesn't seem to be foreshortened enough for the neck to be covered by the head completely.
That being said, I think you've improved a lot, and I really like how the new drawing turned out. Keep up the great work!
Thank you very much, it was all I needed to see, I will give a better analysis and study what I may be improving to continue having a progression.

Thank you very much.
 

luffy

Administrator
Staff member
Moderator
The torso/waist is a bit short, but the new is overall better. There is more movement and it's less stiff than the old. Keep it up!
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Perhaps you should ink the first one or show the sketch of the second one so they could be judged on equal footing. Maybe the difference in medium somehow modifies perception
 

cybermarmoset

Active Member
Hey! :)
The lengths of the limbs in the second drawing are much better, and the way you draw the hands and feet matches the style you are going for better too, however the indication of how the body lies in 3d space and the general shapes are off. the head looks like it needs to lie higher and a bit to the left in order to be able to properly attach to the body. The back of the head should be not as long and slope down, the torso is a bit too turned to look natural. in this position the back arm should be a bit behind the back shoulder and the torso disappearing behind the front arm should be rounder, indicating the back. Also as soon as you are steering away from strictly human proportions and trying to emulate the animal you might want to look into comparative anatomy / animal anatomy.
TLDR: When you feel sth looks off but can't tell what - do an underdrawing indicating the major shaped of the body! (As in the middle one with circles). I used to think this was for newbs and not do this myself for the longest time - big mistake, the people wo do not do this on paper - do it in their heads, but they do this regardless tho'. =_=' Hope this helps! :)

1613317182941.png
 

CrazyDragon

Canadian Dragon
Hey!

Your anatomy appears to be more accurate in the old one, but the newer drawing you tried is more dynamic. Good for you for pushing that pose and making it more interesting!

Everyone has offered some really great tips so far, so i'm going to offer up some of my own tips in hopes it helps.

With this, i'm looking at it from the physical standpoint of rotation and weight distribution, recreating this pose yourself and looking at how your body naturally deals with the weight and strain of stretching (or looking at reference photos) should help you see your character in this position.
I just googled "Leg stretch male" and... I couldn't find anything like this to be honest but it's still worth looking at!

I also like to use a center line to help me check proportions and if the body is aligning with itself correctly. Admittedly I had a hard time recreating this pose you've done, but I hope this provides some helpful insight.

Untitled-2.png


Untitled-1.png
 

cybermarmoset

Active Member
That is also a really good point, thank you to everyone who is replying here, honestly it's good to check back in with the basics.
Also weight and balance is a really good point, if you'll try standing in that pose you'll quickly realize just how unstable it is and how much force it takes to hold it because the supporting leg is so bent. I like doing that sometimes, stand in front of a mirror and use myself for ref. or check if a pose is even feasible. This is the closest thing I could find online and tellingly she is using both hands for balance and support. :)
1613830840650.png
 

CrazyDragon

Canadian Dragon
Yeah! I noticed with photos the supporting leg was crunched in WAY more like the lady you've shared here. I also found the upper body is leaning down more towards the toes because naturally... a leg is long and your arm and shoulder isn't enough. If someone can find that exact pose being pulled off by a human than I will eat my words XD. Anyhow, the way i've recreated the pose is still a bit of a stretch (pun intended), I had to pull the foot back to make the reach seem more feasible (I notice now Vinfang had to do the same with their posing)
 

weblastwolf

New Member
Hey! :)
The lengths of the limbs in the second drawing are much better, and the way you draw the hands and feet matches the style you are going for better too, however the indication of how the body lies in 3d space and the general shapes are off. the head looks like it needs to lie higher and a bit to the left in order to be able to properly attach to the body. The back of the head should be not as long and slope down, the torso is a bit too turned to look natural. in this position the back arm should be a bit behind the back shoulder and the torso disappearing behind the front arm should be rounder, indicating the back. Also as soon as you are steering away from strictly human proportions and trying to emulate the animal you might want to look into comparative anatomy / animal anatomy.
TLDR: When you feel sth looks off but can't tell what - do an underdrawing indicating the major shaped of the body! (As in the middle one with circles). I used to think this was for newbs and not do this myself for the longest time - big mistake, the people wo do not do this on paper - do it in their heads, but they do this regardless tho'. =_=' Hope this helps! :)

View attachment 101847

Oh My Dog, you introduced me to a way of working with renown that I hadn't even imagined, thank you very much for introducing me to this.
 

weblastwolf

New Member
Hey!

Your anatomy appears to be more accurate in the old one, but the newer drawing you tried is more dynamic. Good for you for pushing that pose and making it more interesting!

Everyone has offered some really great tips so far, so i'm going to offer up some of my own tips in hopes it helps.

With this, i'm looking at it from the physical standpoint of rotation and weight distribution, recreating this pose yourself and looking at how your body naturally deals with the weight and strain of stretching (or looking at reference photos) should help you see your character in this position.
I just googled "Leg stretch male" and... I couldn't find anything like this to be honest but it's still worth looking at!

I also like to use a center line to help me check proportions and if the body is aligning with itself correctly. Admittedly I had a hard time recreating this pose you've done, but I hope this provides some helpful insight.

View attachment 102323

View attachment 102324

Oh my, I hadn’t noticed in these details that can totally change the design, and I’m going to study more about points of tension, because I’ve never gone through any content like this, you just gave me a new guideline
 
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