Religion in the Furry Community

[tisr]

Religion is stuff other people made up. Personal spiritualism is stuff you yourself make up.

To some degree, religion becomes what you yourself believe. Although the general concept and framework is created by others, the intricacies are made so as to fit your current beliefs. The god becomes your ego, and follows your intuitions and opinions. This is why so many people can believe in the same deity but act upon it in so many different ways.

For example, some feel that non-believers should be killed, or be forced into conversion, while others believe that anyone is free to believe what they want. Either way, their actions always seem to abide by the followings of their religion, and that is because religion becomes what you want to believe.

 

[KyryK]

I think if you're apart of the furry community, it kind of goes against all religions so x3

How exactly does liking cartoon animal people go against all religions?

I don't remember "Thou shalt not wear a fursuit" being in the ten commandments.

 

[Bonobosoph]

How exactly does liking cartoon animal people go against all religions?

I don't remember "Thou shalt not wear a fursuit" being in the ten commandments.

There was a whole separate chapter on it, omg have you not read the bible??

 

[GarthTheWereWolf]

How exactly does liking cartoon animal people go against all religions?

I don't remember "Thou shalt not wear a fursuit" being in the ten commandments.

God hates furfags C: haven't you heard? It's the only unforgivable sin.

 

[The young man in the cafe]

I myself am a pantheist/animist who believes in reincarnation (though not necessary in the same universe as the previous life.)

I also believe that animals have souls and can leave ghosts, because after my dog died I heard him running around the house.

I also kinda believe in curses, because there have been a number of people in my family tree going back generations to the horse and buggy days who died or (in my brother's case) were paralyzed in transportation related accidents. I have no idea how this curse would have started, but it creeps me out

I also believe in guardian spirits (not necessarily angels, they might be anything, really) because the number of times my brother survived a potentially fatal experience (including the acident that paralyzed him) has passed the point where probability says he shouldn't be alive, so, in my opinion, something must be protecting him.

I also belive in precognition, due to the time my father saw the first three numbers of the lottery in a dream and won a few hundred dollars ( technically he saw all the numbers, or so he claims, but he didn't write them down, so when he went to buy the ticket he could only remember the first three.)

The point is that my spirituality is informed by weird things that have happened to me and those around me that I can't quite explain, maybe my family is just weird like that.

 

[Nikolinni]

How exactly does liking cartoon animal people go against all religions?

I don't remember "Thou shalt not wear a fursuit" being in the ten commandments.

Perhaps they're hitting on the kind of stuff that goes on in the fandom, rather than just the prospect of liking animals?

Still shows they don't know much about religion though.

 

[tisr]

I myself am a pantheist/animist who believes in reincarnation (though not necessary in the same universe as the previous life.)

I also believe that animals have souls and can leave ghosts, because after my dog died I heard him running around the house.

I also kinda believe in curses, because there have been a number of people in my family tree going back generations to the horse and buggy days who died or (in my brother's case) were paralyzed in transportation related accidents. I have no idea how this curse would have started, but it creeps me out

I also believe in guardian spirits (not necessarily angels, they might be anything, really) because the number of times my brother survived a potentially fatal experience (including the acident that paralyzed him) has passed the point where probability says he shouldn't be alive, so, in my opinion, something must be protecting him.

I also belive in precognition, due to the time my father saw the first three numbers of the lottery in a dream and won a few hundred dollars ( technically he saw all the numbers, or so he claims, but he didn't write them down, so when he went to buy the ticket he could only remember the first three.)

The point is that my spirituality is informed by weird things that have happened to me and those around me that I can't quite explain, maybe my family is just weird like that.

I cannot determine the validity of the first few, because there are insufficient details to gather a conclusion, but the last one irks me.

All lottery numbers are picked by people, and the winners of the lottery must have gotten the numbers from somewhere. Some people guess by random choice, others choose significant numbers.

Either way, it is possible to create a claim that the supernatural has been involved in a scenario where it is purely by coincidence.

If someone guesses at random and wins, they could say they are lucky, and has been blessed, etc.
If someone uses significant numbers, e.g. birthdates, license plates, dreams, they could say their source is lucky, or have good foresight, etc.

In this case, a supernatural claim can be made for every lottery that is held, assuming lotteries have a winner everytime.

 

[Kit H. Ruppell]

People today actually take horrible instructions in ancient jewish texts, including but not limited to
-animal sacrifice
-human blood transfusion
-homosexuality
-amputation as a punishment
-beating children
-calls to war

seriously, because they regard the text which contains them as being divine, rather than mythological.

Clearly lots of people can't distinguish what you describe as 'just law' and 'real morals', and if the 'book of truth' can't elucidate that distinction, then what is the point of it?

Just another reason not to stand up for Israel, I think.

 

[Fallowfox]

I myself am a pantheist/animist who believes in reincarnation (though not necessary in the same universe as the previous life.)

I also believe that animals have souls and can leave ghosts, because after my dog died I heard him running around the house.

I also kinda believe in curses, because there have been a number of people in my family tree going back generations to the horse and buggy days who died or (in my brother's case) were paralyzed in transportation related accidents. I have no idea how this curse would have started, but it creeps me out

I also believe in guardian spirits (not necessarily angels, they might be anything, really) because the number of times my brother survived a potentially fatal experience (including the acident that paralyzed him) has passed the point where probability says he shouldn't be alive, so, in my opinion, something must be protecting him.

I also belive in precognition, due to the time my father saw the first three numbers of the lottery in a dream and won a few hundred dollars ( technically he saw all the numbers, or so he claims, but he didn't write them down, so when he went to buy the ticket he could only remember the first three.)

The point is that my spirituality is informed by weird things that have happened to me and those around me that I can't quite explain, maybe my family is just weird like that.

Hearing pitter-patters in your house isn't sufficient grounds to surmise the existence of animals that defy thermodynamics.

Calling a statistical cluster evidence of curses is a texas sharp shooter fallacy:
[video=youtube;InHv7U_fp1g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InHv7U_fp1g[/video]

If you do believe in Guardian spirits, why did the guardians allow potentially fatal experiences to occur at all?


Essentially, your problem is that you don't believe in probability. If you can't surmise a proper explanation for an occurrence, then that doesn't entitle you to conclude that magical explanations must be true.

 

[The young man in the cafe]

Hearing pitter-patters in your house isn't sufficient grounds to surmise the existence of animals that defy thermodynamics.

Calling a statistical cluster evidence of curses is a texas sharp shooter fallacy:
[video=youtube;InHv7U_fp1g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InHv7U_fp1g[/video]

If you do believe in Guardian spirits, why did the guardians allow potentially fatal experiences to occur at all?


Essentially, your problem is that you don't believe in probability. If you can't surmise a proper explanation for an occurrence, then that doesn't entitle you to conclude that magical explanations must be true.

I've never heard of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy before, but it does seem to apply to my family's experiences regarding the "curse". I thank you for helping me get over my fears regarding driving, Fallow.

As for the whole thermos dynamics ruling out the soul thing, I believe souls to be electrical in nature. I mean, the electrical energy in the brain and body has to go somewhere when we die, right? So in my opinion, which I admit may be wrong, newton's laws actually confirm the existence of the soul for me. Any animal that has a brain and body running on electricity has a soul, including dogs, humans and anything else.

as for the guardian spirits allowing bad things to happen at all, I don't believe that these guardian spirits are all powerful. all of the incidents that nearly killed my brother were the result of stupid decisions that either he made or stupid decisions someone else made. The guardian spirits can't (or won't) override free will, so when my brother (or anyone else that they protect) gets hurt due to someone's stupidity all they can do is damage control. But I must admit that the texas sharpshooter fallacy may apply here too. Thanks for giving me something to test my beliefs against Fallow.

 

[Fallowfox]

Newton's laws don't describe thermodynamics or electricity. They describe the motion of rigid bodies.
Laptop computers should be expected to have souls, by your definition of a soul. Laptops should also be expected to haunt their former owners...well, they do if you don't delete your web history, but that's different.

 

[Kit H. Ruppell]

As for the whole thermos dynamics ruling out the soul thing, I believe souls to be electrical in nature. I mean, the electrical energy in the brain and body has to go somewhere when we die, right? So in my opinion, which I admit may be wrong, newton's laws actually confirm the existence of the soul for me. Any animal that has a brain and body running on electricity has a soul, including dogs, humans and anything else.

It loses coherence and purpose when bodily systems break down, and is conducted as unintelligible white noise into its surroundings, much like heat.
You may be wrong, but I'll credit you for being fair.

 

[tisr]

As for the whole thermos dynamics ruling out the soul thing, I believe souls to be electrical in nature. I mean, the electrical energy in the brain and body has to go somewhere when we die, right? So in my opinion, which I admit may be wrong, newton's laws actually confirm the existence of the soul for me. Any animal that has a brain and body running on electricity has a soul, including dogs, humans and anything else.

Electric signals are produced in the brain using stored energy and ions present in the brain.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec97/880395992.Ns.r.html This article explains everything nicely. (hyperlinks hate me D: )

So the brain does not store electricity, neither is the significance of this electrical energy limited to animals since it can be explained at a molecular level.

 

[Fallowfox]

It still amazes me that a series of electro-chemical gradients changing can produce not only an animated creature, but one which knows it exists- like me.

Suggesting that these signals will persist to generate me, even if the machinery which makes them work is destroyed, is unreasonable. Even a small amount of damage to that machinery could render me badly brain damaged, and the electrical signals will not be able to generate this thing I call me any more.

 

[Hakar Kerarmor]

As for the whole thermos dynamics ruling out the soul thing, I believe souls to be electrical in nature. I mean, the electrical energy in the brain and body has to go somewhere when we die, right? So in my opinion, which I admit may be wrong, newton's laws actually confirm the existence of the soul for me. Any animal that has a brain and body running on electricity has a soul, including dogs, humans and anything else.

If you turn off the TV, where does the image go?

 

[Fallowfox]

This morning I experienced a peculiar turn of events which have relevancy to this discussion of sentience.

I was sitting and felt quite unwell, which was peculiar, before suddenly being in a quite different, reclined position, screaming periodically and involuntarily, unable to move or feel my body. When I regained composition I realised I had also wet myself.

My brother says that I made muffled requests for help, before slumping into a quivering semi-conscious stupor, but I don't remember this. I've no idea what this event was, so I'll have to visit the doctor about it, but I think it served as a reminder to me that the conscious aspect of my constitution is a fragile structure which is composed by and cannot exist without bodily maintenance, and which rapidly disappears even when only slight deviations from regular bodily processes occur.

 

[The young man in the cafe]

It loses coherence and purpose when bodily systems break down, and is conducted as unintelligible white noise into its surroundings, much like heat.
You may be wrong, but I'll credit you for being fair.

Well if it's not electrical in nature, then I suppose I'll have to find another explanation for the soul.

The fact is, I know what I heard the night after my dog died. I heard his running, the jangleing of his collar and his panting. So assuming that souls exist and that animals have them, then they must something innate to living things. If my electricity explanation is wrong (which I'm still not entirely convinced it is, after all maybe coherence isn't entirely lost.) then I will keep trying theories until I find one that works.

Like I said, my spirituality is based on the fact that there has been some weird crap in my life that I can't explain.

 

[The young man in the cafe]

If you turn off the TV, where does the image go?

The image is still there in the cable wires and airwaves, it's just not in a form you can see.

 

[Fallowfox]

Well if it's not electrical in nature, then I suppose I'll have to find another explanation for the soul.

The fact is, I know what I heard the night after my dog died. I heard his running, the jangleing of his collar and his panting. So assuming that souls exist and that animals have them, then they must something innate to living things. If my electricity explanation is wrong (which I'm still not entirely convinced it is, after all maybe coherence isn't entirely lost.) then I will keep trying theories until I find one that works.

And since I never replied to fallow's opinion of my precognition beliefs, I'd like to point out that my dad isn't the only one in my family that's had those predictive dreams. My mom and myself have also had dreams about events that either hadn't happened yet or that we didn't know about at the time. My mom recently had a premonition about my grandfather's health that came true hours later (he's alright now, but he did have to undergo surgery). And just so you know, my mom's the most secular, irreligious person I know. She doesn't even like to talk about her premonitions and dreams because they don't quite fit into her worldview.

Like I said, my spirituality is based on the fact that there has been some weird crap in my life that I can't explain.

Your notion of 'explanation' is more accurately described as rationalisation. You have decided what your conclusion is- that souls really do exist- and are warping facts in an attempt to support this conclusion.

Why not think of a test instead?

What would be more likely, that your hearing is fallible, or that dogs' minds survive death and manifest as strange noises?


If you can't explain something, assuming the explanation is the spirit world isn't warranted.

The image is still there in the cable wires and airwaves, it's just not in a form you can see.

Your belief about spirits is more like thinking that, if you smash a CD, the information on the CD lives on, and that you should expect to hear that CD's tunes playing in the future. :\

 

[Hakar Kerarmor]

The image is still there in the cable wires and airwaves, it's just not in a form you can see.

Then it's not much of an image is it?

 

[jtrekkie]

Then it's not much of an image is it?

It's there alright, it messes with my radios and makes my microcontrollers do weird stuff. If you could see in the microwave spectrum you would already know that. I've actually taken to regarding the TV waves as a malevolent entity.

 

[Fallowfox]

TV signals are not in the microwave region. Mobile phone signals are.

 

[jtrekkie]

When did they change that? UHF and SHF used to be microwaves. Anyway, call them what you want, they are as invasive as the are obnoxious. Cell signals are bad too, they mess with my speakers.

 

[The young man in the cafe]

Your notion of 'explanation' is more accurately described as rationalization. You have decided what your conclusion is- that souls really do exist- and are warping facts in an attempt to support this conclusion.

Why not think of a test instead?

What would be more likely, that your hearing is fallible, or that dogs' minds survive death and manifest as strange noises?


If you can't explain something, assuming the explanation is the spirit world isn't warranted.
:\

Fallow, I admit that I might be wrong, it may not have been my dog's ghost. I tested other explanations first. Before I made the ghost assumption, I asked my mom (the only other person in the house that night) if she heard anything. She said she did, which rules out the theory that it was all in my head. After that, I looked for anything else that might have made those noises and couldn't find anything in that house that sounded like my dog.

The point that I'm trying to make is that if it wasn't my dog's ghost, then I have no freaking clue what that noise was was, though I would appreciate your theories, if only I could have something to test against.

as for the CD thing, I'm pretty sure that CDs work through a system of bumps and reflective areas that are used as 1s and 0s in binary code, the only electricity involved is the laser that reads the CD by reflecting off the reflective parts. So it's not a perfect analogy.

 

[Fallowfox]

Fallow, I admit that I might be wrong, it may not have been my dog's ghost. I tested other explanations first. Before I made the ghost assumption, I asked my mom (the only other person in the house that night) if she heard anything. She said she did, which rules out the theory that it was all in my head. After that, I looked for anything else that might have made those noises and couldn't find anything in that house that sounded like my dog.

The point that I'm trying to make is that if it wasn't my dog's ghost, then I have no freaking clue what that noise was was, though I would appreciate your theories, if only I could have something to test against.

as for the CD thing, I'm pretty sure that CDs work through a system of bumps and reflective areas that are used as 1s and 0s in binary code, the only electricity involved is the laser that reads the CD by reflecting off the reflective parts. So it's not a perfect analogy.

Eliminating a couple of explanations doesn't equate to justifying a magical explanation. It would be most appropriate to conclude you heard an animal noise, and do not know what it was. Possible candidates might include a raccoon that snuck in, but anecdotal auditory evidence is not sufficient to justify the existence of immaterial dog brains.