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[School shooting] So my father just called me to tell me that he loves me...

FenrirUlv

Probably stoned
Didn't California ban guns/restrict guns, yet still have gun crime? Was it a rise in gun crime, or a reduction?
I tried looking for you, all I could find is bitchy NRA members and a few things that I dont think are reliable. What I saw from a quick glance was basically you can only carry handguns in public but they must be concealed, handgun purchases are registered with the buyer though no permit (just like everything else) is required. Id have someone double check it though, I only looked quick.
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
What would happen, if instead we take away things people can kill with, like guns, than knifes, than baseball bats, than the kitchen table, than your hands and legs, we try to find the people who are either about to snap, or are already planing to kill? I mean, there are millions of people in a city. You can't go from A to B without someone seeing you, meeting someone or, god forbid, talking to someone.
Think about this. Why are these people able to go unnoticed? People don't go "Arhmarhgahd, I'll kill everyone!" from one second to the next without reasons. No one is born as a murderer. It takes time, long periods of time. And yet, no one notices, no one does anything, they don't get help.

You don't actually have to answer that question. I know the answer, you know too, probably even better than I do.
 

Ricky

Well-Known Member
What would happen, if instead we take away things people can kill with, like guns, than knifes, than baseball bats, than the kitchen table, than your hands and legs, we try to find the people who are either about to snap, or are already planing to kill? I mean, there are millions of people in a city. You can't go from A to B without someone seeing you, meeting someone or, god forbid, talking to someone.
Think about this. Why are these people able to go unnoticed? People don't go "Arhmarhgahd, I'll kill everyone!" from one second to the next without reasons. No one is born as a murderer. It takes time, long periods of time. And yet, no one notices, no one does anything, they don't get help.

You don't actually have to answer that question. I know the answer, you know too, probably even better than I do.

What are you suggesting? We should arrest people and force them to go to counseling based on what we think they are thinking?

Can't we just figure out what's causing people to snap and try to fix the problem?

Maybe these people wouldn't go on a shooting spree if it were easier for them to talk to someone and get help.
 

FenrirUlv

Probably stoned
What would happen, if instead we take away things people can kill with, like guns, than knifes, than baseball bats, than the kitchen table, than your hands and legs, we try to find the people who are either about to snap, or are already planing to kill? I mean, there are millions of people in a city. You can't go from A to B without someone seeing you, meeting someone or, god forbid, talking to someone.
Think about this. Why are these people able to go unnoticed? People don't go "Arhmarhgahd, I'll kill everyone!" from one second to the next without reasons. No one is born as a murderer. It takes time, long periods of time. And yet, no one notices, no one does anything, they don't get help.

You don't actually have to answer that question. I know the answer, you know too, probably even better than I do.
I have to be honest I dont really understand your question. are you for more gun control or against it?
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
I have to be honest I dont really understand your question. are you for more gun control or against it?

Neither. Guns are tools, nothing more. Their amount won't change the amount of people who want to kill. It only changes the method.

Also, if gun control was the first thing that popped to your mind from that question, than you read the thing wrong, or just too caught up in the gun control debate to actually see I'm not talking about guns at all.

What are you suggesting? We should arrest people and force them to go to counseling based on what we think they are thinking?

Can't we just figure out what's causing people to snap and try to fix the problem?

Maybe these people wouldn't go on a shooting spree if it were easier for them to talk to someone and get help.

Are you even reading? Or just looking at letters? From where on earth did you get I suggested anything on that line, for once?
 
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FenrirUlv

Probably stoned
Neither. Guns are tools, nothing more. Their amount won't change the amount of people who want to kill. It only changes the method.

Also, if gun control was the first thing that popped to your mind from that question, than you read the thing wrong, or just too caught up in the gun control debate to actually see I'm not talking about guns at all.
Well, that was were the discussion was. I read the first part of removing all these things that are completely ridiculous but couldnt tell what your stance was on the matter.
Guns are weapons, the serve no utility other than killing as Ive said multiple times, that is the difference between them and a tool. While I agree that people should be able to have fire arms for hunting and protection, it crosses a line when we now have easily concealable handguns, weapons with high fire rates and high capacity.

Was just trying to get a clarification as it seemed off topic, which apparently it was.

In response to the question, How are we supposed to do that? there is no way of legislating what people think.
 
Neither. Guns are tools, nothing more. Their amount won't change the amount of people who want to kill. It only changes the method.

Also, if gun control was the first thing that popped to your mind from that question, than you read the thing wrong, or just too caught up in the gun control debate to actually see I'm not talking about guns at all.
The cultural perception of them does (or can). If they are the "cool" and so on, weak minded are more likely to try to solve their problems using them. (like it is "cool" to Drink yourself into a coma). And if someone advocates taking all the guns away he/she/it is naive, although i'd assume a gun license (just like a driver license just for guns) with extensive education/training (when to/not to use it, how to use it) could be a PART of the solution imho.

But yeah, only gun control doesn't help, gotta find out why people get f*ed up like this and fix the problem.
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
Was just trying to get a clarification as it seemed off topic, which apparently it was.

In response to the question, How are we supposed to do that? there is no way of legislating what people think.

Words, writing, art.. actions? A better question would be, how to get them to use those so we can know what they are thinking.

And it would be off topic if we would only talk about guns, excluding the people pulling the trigger.
 

FenrirUlv

Probably stoned
gotta find out why people get f*ed up like this and fix the problem.
My assumption is the culture. Just look at the rating for film and tv. In the US violence, gore, etc. is considered to be given a pg-13 rating where as nudity is an instant R unlike the rest of the world. the US has a violent culture.
 

FenrirUlv

Probably stoned
Words, writing, art.. actions? A better question would be, how to get them to use those so we can know what they are thinking.
Do you honestly expect to be able to monitor everyone that way and that thorough? Or what about the writing of someone who is being sarcastic or just overly emotional? We see people say they are going to kill people all the time and dont do it, we have people that act like they are violent and arent. There is no effective way (besides body language and even then its not a guarantee) to see who is truly violent. Not to mention the moral aspects of legislating a thought crime.

edit: if a mod can combine my last two posts or something that would be great, sort of forgot about that first reply.
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
Apparently, I'm really bad at communicating my thoughts, as everyone and their mother thinks I want monitoring, and thought crime laws...
I guess I'll just stay quiet for the rest of my life, or at least until I snap and kill someone.
 

Ricky

Well-Known Member
Apparently, I'm really bad at communicating my thoughts, as everyone and their mother thinks I want monitoring, and thought crime laws...
I guess I'll just stay quiet for the rest of my life, or at least until I snap and kill someone.

Why don't you just explain yourself a bit better?

Asking a sarcastic question like "Are you even reading? Or just looking at letters?" doesn't help me to understand what you meant.

Once we "find these people" as you put it (I have no idea how that would even be done), what do you suggest we do with/to them?
 

Randy-Darkshade

Bike riding squirrel thing.
Words, writing, art.. actions? A better question would be, how to get them to use those so we can know what they are thinking.

And it would be off topic if we would only talk about guns, excluding the people pulling the trigger.

I understand what you're saying but as others have said, the way people act, behave, the things they say is no guarantee of anything.

Look at the art artists draw on FA, what you're suggesting could have a ton of artists thrown in jail just because of what they drew or even written in their stories. Too many innocent people would end up being prosecuted.
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
Why don't you just explain yourself a bit better?

Because I just can't. I actually talked more in this past month here, than in the past three years of my life. I'm THAT good at talking.

Asking a sarcastic question like "Are you even reading? Or just looking at letters?" doesn't help me to understand what you meant.

Once we "find these people" as you put it (I have no idea how that would even be done), what do you suggest we do with/to them?

Why does find instantly mean "locate and arrest, and spy on" and shit like that? Did I learn English wrong? When you find your friend at a bar, does that mean you deliberately were trying to find him, carefully treading, following where he went? Or can it mean you walked in a bar, and happen to realise, that that person sitting in the corner is your friend?
Finding as in, finding out they have problems. Locating that this person in fact can be a danger to others, or requires help. You don't need thought crime laws or monitors and cops at every corner to do that. You just need your mouth and some will to actually talk to more than the three exactly same people you talk to every day...

People are quiet. Everyone is always fucking quiet. Up to the point where they won't even look at you when you say hello. So of course you don't know if these people have problems. They don't want to talk most of the time, if at all. If they even CAN talk about anything. And why should they? No one seems to talk to ANYONE, besides friends they met by actually HAVING to talk to. School mates, co-workers, or some dude they met by talking to them out of boredom, or need.
Really. Starting a conversation with anyone is really fucking hard. And this is Mr. best speaker talking here! They either just shrug you off, walk away, or just say two words than stop. Which makes you want to talk even less.

And people wonder, why there are people flipping without anyone noticing? Well this here is exactly why. Because everyone is numero uno. Everyone cares about them self. If humans wouldn't need social interactions, the world would be fucking silent by now as everyone just cares about their own things. And the times they don't they think about how to make it worse for others, how THEY are better than others, how THEY are more important than others. And if you know someone has a problem, YOU don't want to help, because it's a burden for YOU, and YOU can't be bothered to help others, because YOU have more important things than that. You only give some time from your precious day to people who entertain YOU, have something to say that interest YOU, think like YOU, look like YOU and talk like YOU.
This is what I learned in my life. If you can't act, lie and merge with the mindset of others, you are alone. No one in this world looks at someone, sees they are sad, troubled or something and actually spare time to ask, unless it interests THEM.
Everyone does everything for them self. This includes helping people too. You don't help others unless you have stakes in it. Be it financial, emotional or otherwise. This is the bane of humanity. No money, no actions, no guns or laws will make someone care for one another. Yes I said it, the word you all hate so much. Care. Everyone needs it, but guess what? No one really wants to give it.

So I won't even answer that question, as humans are genetically incapable to "find" people in need. No point in figuring out what to do with something you can not locate. And I was pointing at how we can't find these people in the first place, we just want to. Because no one talks to them and they have no one to talk to, so what they think never even has the slightest chance to be revealed. And by talk I don't mean the usual "Let's pretend I'm like this so people will accept me" bullshit that is rampart everywhere. I'm talking about talking. Your own thoughts, own ideas, without the fear that the other will just beat you over the head.

Because that's what we do to anyone we disagree with, or don't like. We want to make THEM disappear. Shut THEM up. So WE don't have to care about THEM. No one cares why you think a certain way, what lead you to believe something, they just care about what you say and if it is of any interest or use to THEM. And this goes back and forth, and no one understands the other, and no one wants to.

This is what I see, this is what I think, and this is what YOU all will say is stupid and I'm just a loser and jada jada jada, because YOU don't like it. I know that. Why I think this? YOU don't care. And don't even ask, because obviously MY reality is the only one, and the true reality, and the only one that can exist. So I will refuse to acknowledge anything YOU say to me.

Their, done, I'm fine now. Now I'm off to go an kill kids at the local school.

I understand what you're saying but as others have said, the way people act, behave, the things they say is no guarantee of anything.

Look at the art artists draw on FA, what you're suggesting could have a ton of artists thrown in jail just because of what they drew or even written in their stories. Too many innocent people would end up being prosecuted.

No, you don't as what I wanted to imply doesn't involves laws, or cops. Just simple conversation skills. If people find the ones in need and GOD FORBID, actually help them, than we don't need cops and laws, since the crime won't happen in the first place!


God... why can't I just project my thoughts out like a TV...

EDIT: And this is not aimed at Ricky or anyone particular. It' aimed at EVERYONE.
 
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Riyeko

Hai Thar.
I only heard the guy that went and shot up the school in CT was mentally disturbed.
The guns he obviously got were from his fathers home in New Jersey, so they didnt even have to be registered in his name. Fail on his dads part for not locking them up like a responsible owner would have done, regardless (yeah yeah throw it at me that he could have gotten the key off his dad for the gun cabinet, im just giving my two cents)...
Also, he went in and obviously was mentally disturbed.
Who knows why he went in there and did that.. I heard he also shot some unidentified woman in a nearby home.

Who knows what some people are thinking when they take a weapon to school.
Honestly I had to stop myself from going to my kid's schools today and finding out if they were okay. Ive never been that paranoid over how "safe" my kids are in school.
But then again, my kids know guns and how to behave around them.
They are taught how to run from danger, how to contact the police in the correct manner when theres a legitimate problem, and how to behave around criminals and idiots who take the law in their own hands.
Sure, theyre young, but dammit, they are smart and they know what to do.

Anyway, its a bad thing that happened. There are a lot of families not tucking in their kids tonight, and my heart goes out to them.
Id never want to be in that situation. Ever.
 

Harbinger

The Last of Us.
Seeing as how often this keeps happen you would have thought they would beef up security everywhere by now, make it mandatory. Is a despicable act though, think the killers have a bit of torturing before execution.
 

Ricky

Well-Known Member
@Recel, You alright? you seem a bit... disturbed.

Hide the guns and sharp objects ;3

Seriously though, I agree with you Recel that people ought to talk to each other more. I think that would help, but people have it in their nature to form exclusive groups and tend to actively ostracize people that seem "off" or don't fit in. For some reason I've always been the opposite. I think it's because I'm interested in the unusual; people who are just like every one of their friends bore me and seem fake.

Your answer isn't really a solution but it points out a larger problem than the gun issue. I also can't buy it's a coincidence all these mass murders were committed by folks around the same age. I don't think it's a good thing we put so much pressure on people in high school. The message is usually "you need to figure out NOW what you want to do for the rest of your life, or you will be flipping burgers for the next 40 years." Not only is that too much pressure to put on someone but it's just not true.
 

CrazyLee

Biggest buttplug ever
Michigan's passing a law that would allow concealed weapons in schools.

That's an idea. ARM ALL THE TEACHERS! Even in Elementary schools.


'Of course, if a teacher had been armed this entire tragedy would have been averted.' /right wing news pundit.
 

Unsilenced

Mentlegen
The media reaction to these things never ceases to disturb me. How many times does this need to be reported? How much do we really need to know? Every news channel and radio station is buzzing with pictures and audio clips, interviews with the surviving kids asking them what it was like to get shot at. Do we need hear that? Why do we want to? Why do these attacks demand our attention and, more importantly, what happens when they get it?

The people who do these attacks know they'll become famous. Whatever their grievance was, whatever they couldn't put into words, now the entire world will know about it. The more shocking the target, the more people get killed, the bigger the statement. Someone commits a single murder or suicide, and nobody cares. It warrants a slow shake of the head and a police report. Someone shoots up a school and they get hundreds of hours of news coverage with people constantly asking "Why? Why? Why?" without the slightest hint of irony. We keep reinforcing the idea of the mass shooting, turning what should be an anomaly into a reoccurring phenomenon.

Basically my view of it.
 
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