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Server Hardware Fault

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xionos

New Member
Actually we are totally SOL until we get the hardware to fix things. Hardware that we are currently in the process of getting money for... that hasn't been ordered yet. So I suggest that you get off your high horse and look at this situation with some logic.

We are spending time in the forums and reading this thread because despite what users may think at this point we care GREATLY for this website. I don't know of any better group of people that put up with the daily BS we get for free. We watch, build, and make this site out of love for the community, and nothing else. We don't get paid, we have lives, jobs, yet every day we are on here trying to make this place better for all the users as a whole.

Do you think we LIKE being down? Do you think for some reason that we get our jolly's off by making the user base suffer? All of the admins/coders on this website are more nervous and more angry at this happening then the users could ever fathom. This is our baby, we want to raise it right, But much like a real child there are developmental hitches that we all have to deal with, and this happens to be one of them.

Deal with it or leave.

No one likes your site being down, that's why they're here. You also gotta keep in mind that business is done through your site, mostly via the note system. If FA is down, then so is the note system. This means that business arrangements has to manage, through extremely limited contact, to find a way to continue. Most people have two emails, one for their personal email, one for paypal emails. Having said that, it's possible that if I go and commission an artist and send money to their paypal account, I won't be able to get a hold of them until the site is back up.

Not only that, but certain hardware issues reared its ugly head just a couple weeks ago. One would think that you guys would have been thorough enough to make sure everything was ok. Having said that, if this is an entirely new hardware related issue, then I could understand...but given how long it had been since the last hardware issue, I strongly doubt that to be the case.

I'm not here to be negative, or even positive. I'm saying it how it is, if a bit too strongly. Sorry you don't see it that way.
 
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Lt_Havoc

SPADS Commander
So, can anyone at least tell me, what is borken? Hardware failure can mean everything, from broken HDS, to kaputt CPUs, to exploded power supplies etc. So, what IS broken and why cant it be simply changed? I mean, I said eariler that you people made mantaince just shortly after the whole server was moved to another location and it was working.

So, what happend? Overlooked the posasible malfunction of certain hardware? Its just hard to belive that thing get broken from one moment to another without any sign of the forbodding malfunction.

Again, how much will a new server cost anyway? 7000 Dollar or more? And what brand will you guys get?

I´m just puzzeld that it was happeing now, after all the other faliures the site had in the last months. Maybe that was the indication that something might go wrong soon?

As I said, I expect the site to be offline for at least, 4 weeks if not longer. Bulding a server is a time consuming process and first you need the parts, so delivery time must be caluclated too and then we first need the cash and that will also take some time until the amount of cash is there.

Cant the time be used to get Ferrox done so it can be installed and used with the new server?
 

Pi

Member
In which case the "Pi shouldn't get away with being able to not give a fuck" factor is very apparent.

Eh, people argued me into taking the database down. I might strip the data out for interoperability purposes, but the code is staying up.
 

Veritas

New Member
Far as I know the problem was exactly that they couldn't tell WHAT the problem was, the difficulty being a sporadic one.

Anyway...

Here's the devil's deal about paying for the service - either on a mandatory or a donation basis:

Whatever the reasons behind it, FurAffinity has a woeful reliability record. Yes, it's a busy site, but so is Slashdot... and, at least as significantly, a number of the problems have seemed to be stuff that just plain shouldn't happen, or at least shouldn't last nearly as long(more than twelve hours to get in touch with the colo?!).

If I could be assured that sinking money into it would help with the reliability problems, I might consider seeing what I can scrounge up(which would not be much, mind, but the usual argument about "everybody chip in $1" still holds).

Given how many times we've been told that such-and-such change or upgrade is the end of FA downtimes... this would be a very hard assurance to believe.
 

Pinkuh

Member
No one likes your site being down, that's why they're here. You also gotta keep in mind that business is done through your site, mostly via the note system. If FA is down, then so is the note system. This means that business arrangements has to manage, through extremely limited contact, to find a way to continue. Most people have two emails, one for their personal email, one for paypal emails. Having said that, it's possible that if I go and commission an artist and send money to their paypal account, I won't be able to get a hold of them until the site is back up.

Not only that, but certain hardware issues reared its ugly head just a couple weeks ago. One would think that you guys would have been thorough enough to make sure everything was ok. Having said that, if this is an entirely new hardware related issue, then I could understand...but given how long it had been since the last hardware issue, I strongly doubt that to be the case.

I'm not here to be negative, or even positive. I'm saying it how it is, if a bit too strongly. Sorry you don't see it that way.

Do you think we don't know that?

I personally have business arrangements on the site too... before I am an admin I am a user, and I am in the same boat as EVERYONE. We are WELL AWARE of all the issues regarding FA's downtime because it effects us ALL exactly in the same way it effects the users. So by "Telling" us these "Problems" you are being completely redundant and not helpful in the least. We KNOW about the personal issues people have with the site being down.

You know what they say about assuming things? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"

As far as "New hardware issue" Yes it is NEW hence the reason we didn't know Diddly squat about it till it hit us.

Hard drives fail for no reason, Power supplies Short out for no reason, Things happen spontaneously and For the life of us we could have checked this yesterday before the site would have gone off and we STILL wouldn't have had any warning. You are asking us to be able to "Tell" what problems are going to happen before they do, and I am sorry, but thats impossible.

again Logic is key here. Before jumping down our throats for things out of our control think a little first.
 

xionos

New Member
Far as I know the problem was exactly that they couldn't tell WHAT the problem was, the difficulty being a sporadic one.

Anyway...

Here's the devil's deal about paying for the service - either on a mandatory or a donation basis:

Whatever the reasons behind it, FurAffinity has a woeful reliability record. Yes, it's a busy site, but so is Slashdot... and, at least as significantly, a number of the problems have seemed to be stuff that just plain shouldn't happen, or at least shouldn't last nearly as long(more than twelve hours to get in touch with the colo?!).

If I could be assured that sinking money into it would help with the reliability problems, I might consider seeing what I can scrounge up(which would not be much, mind, but the usual argument about "everybody chip in $1" still holds).

Given how many times we've been told that such-and-such change or upgrade is the end of FA downtimes... this would be a very hard assurance to believe.

Hardware issues happen, but not without warning ( save for some extreme physical impact or surge ). Parts will either start to over heat, click, not produce enough watts/amps, or whatever. Stuff like this is just plain hard to miss. If a hard drive starts to go out, it will start to hang with the seek, the spindles will click, then resume before going kaput. In the case of overheating, the parts will initially shut down before frying. Powersupplies will either start to push out more watts/amps before blowing up OR will start to produce less and less watts/amps, causing instability in the system before simply dying out.

These things, if paid attention to and cared for, is easy to avoid. It's just that simple

Edit:
As far as "New hardware issue" Yes it is NEW hence the reason we didn't know Diddly squat about it till it hit us.

Hard drives fail for no reason, Power supplies Short out for no reason, Things happen spontaneously and For the life of us we could have checked this yesterday before the site would have gone off and we STILL wouldn't have had any warning. You are asking us to be able to "Tell" what problems are going to happen before they do, and I am sorry, but thats impossible.

Sorry but no. Anyone with basic knowledge of computer hardware will know this. Saying "something breaks without reason" is merely shifting the blame. If I told a mechanic that my car's engine blew up or my transmission fell out for no good reason and without warning, they would laugh.

See the body above my quoting you
 
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Pi

Member
On the order of terabytes?

d.m.f.

If you are who I think you are you should know this answer already. If not, yhbt yhl hand.
 

Donryu

Suffers from mentally AWESOME
After lightly perusing the pages I just have a little input here. I'm sure it will be lightly passed over or deemed irrelevent but I figured it was important.


As per what I have seen there seem to be quite a bit of complaints directed toward the people running the site. "Why can't they work faster!?"

"Help me!"

While the site isn't run by everyone, it does however belong to everyone who is involved in the site. Outtages are to be expected when you have really just a small group of people doing this. This isn't a multimillion dollar corporation in which they have the time and money in order to do this. Most of these people are doing this out of the free time of their day in order to make this site work.

I don't wish to sound like some certain president, but since it does belong to you, why not take ownership. Instead of insisting that the moderators and technicians move their butts, how about you ask instead "What can I do?"

This question will not only get an answer but will surely speed up this process of repair. They have also in fact stated what they need. Donations! Every little bit counts, so why not contribute? you know there's a lot of people on this site. One dollar from every user would surely be more than enough.

Instead of complaining about the problem, be part of the solution.
 

Lt_Havoc

SPADS Commander
What is "yhbt yhl hand"? What the hell is that suppose to mean?
 

Firehazard

I can fix it!
Another point: I would make sure there's some kind of long-term guarantee on any server you buy, even if you have to pay extra for it. From the kind of luck you guys seem to have with hardware, it sounds like it would be worth the extra dough. It sure would have been worth it last time.

Refresh my memory: What all hardware do you guys have right now, when did you get it, and what is/was it used for?
 

gliengul

Member
Sorry but no. Anyone with basic knowledge of computer hardware will know this. Saying "something breaks without reason" is merely shifting the blame. If I told a mechanic that my car's engine blew up or my transmission fell out for no good reason and without warning, they would laugh.

It is not unusual for certain parts of a computer to go without a detectable warning. Harddrives click, Power supplies get a subtle dissonant hum and boot sequences start to have strange pauses in odd parts of the BIOS initialization, but just as often the chipset will decide it doesn't want to initialize or a drive just won't spin-up.

The staff cannot reasonably be expected to monitor the microscopic subtleties of hardware that is many miles from their homes and under the care of colo techs.
The very same colo techs that can hear a thousand little 60mm fans spinning in unison and little else aside from their boss cranking at them for fussing over some server too much.

To put it in short, many computer components on a server with little or no on-site supervision can blow without giving any sort of detectable warning and they do so with a dependable enough frequency that most server parts are marked with a MTBF(Mean time Between Failures) value.

The only real failing in the FA community has been a lack of drive to put up enough funds so that there can be some amount of redundancy in the site's hardware to allow for fault-tolerance.

That being said I'll be making a much-belated donation come payday. ;)
 

xionos

New Member
It is not unusual for certain parts of a computer to go without a detectable warning. Harddrives click, Power supplies get a subtle dissonant hum and boot sequences start to have strange pauses in odd parts of the BIOS initialization, but just as often the chipset will decide it doesn't want to initialize or a drive just won't spin-up.

The staff cannot reasonably be expected to monitor the microscopic subtleties of hardware that is many miles from their homes and under the care of colo techs.
The very same colo techs that can hear a thousand little 60mm fans spinning in unison and little else aside from their boss cranking at them for fussing over some server too much.

To put it in short, many computer components on a server with little or no on-site supervision can blow without giving any sort of detectable warning and they do so with a dependable enough frequency that most server parts are marked with a MTBF(Mean time Between Failures) value.

The only real failing in the FA community has been a lack of drive to put up enough funds so that there can be some amount of redundancy in the site's hardware to allow for fault-tolerance.

Given how much more often FA's server has had a "Hardware Fault" ( and the frequency between said faults ) than other large communities and the servers they're being hosted on, it's a much bigger issue than them not being able to routinely check the condition of the server.
 
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ArielMT

'Net Help Desk
Okay, folks, seriously, you all are the weirdest group of people I ever had seen.
There was doubt about that before?
 

icehawk

Member
Another point: I would make sure there's some kind of long-term guarantee on any server you buy, even if you have to pay extra for it. From the kind of luck you guys seem to have with hardware, it sounds like it would be worth the extra dough. It sure would have been worth it last time.

That sort of thing can get expensive very quickly. Configuring the cheapest dell server possible adding anything beyond their basic next-day support can cost anywhere from $149 to $899.
 

drpepperfiend

New Member
i wish i knew about this about an hour earlier . . . . . . maybe i need to get into school again and get the proper papers i need to be able to do this professionally, rather than a side job that i currently perform now. Thank you for all yer hard work, admins. yall desrve a break. So peeps, these guys ( whoever is involved other than Dragoneer ) are doing their best, let them be and allow them to maximise their time and effort in getting done what needs to be done. I think i need ot start learning some coding too. LOL I basically excell in troublshooting and physical repair. just no soldering . . . i cant solder worth crap LOL

Listen... i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to software, though I'd put myself next to the rake and shovel. On the flipside I've built multiple computers from parts, multiple simple robots from scratch, and I made my friend's idea for hardware that didn't exist real by SOLDERING a shitton of stuff. If you point and tell me where I can solder damn near anything to damn near anything else without frying it.

Still. I think the BEST and most probable solution is to donate $$. i just got my very first paycheck, and I'm opening an account today, but it's gonna take time for me to set up paypal having done it only once before and with issues. Do I have to do that thing with paypal where they give me, like, 8 cents and 3 cents and I tell them how much? I don't trust bank computers to help me so soon... The money's coming, just give me a week.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
High School debates continue after Post #374
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
One would think that you guys would have been thorough enough to make sure everything was ok. Having said that, if this is an entirely new hardware related issue, then I could understand...but given how long it had been since the last hardware issue, I strongly doubt that to be the case.
A harddrive is much different from a circuit problem. And we are working to fix this the PROPER way right now.

High School debates continue after Post #374
Ahh shit, it was a trap.
 
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