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Server Hardware Fault

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lupus_shearhart

New Member
Lupus, I can see where you're going with your post. I think the critical difference between government ordering/bidding and the private sector is that the government can demand overnight shipment and delivery, expedited assembly and guaranteed compatibility. For someone like 'Neer and the other admins to be trying to pull off a teardown and recompile of the site onto some brand new hardware is going to take more time than someone in 'our' shoes.

That's the reason I pointed out the fact that Dell is a viable option. Four-hour support doesn't require a government-bid contract. It doesn't require a long history of any sort. It just requires a bit of cash, and a bit of time speaking with a sales associate on the phone to assure you're getting what you want. Believe me, the government gets no such expedited assembly, guaranteed compatibility, or overnight shipping either. (It's taken us over four weeks to recieve some components from Gateway after purchasing an overnight shipment contract for $8,000 on top of the $10,000 spent to purchase the public access terminals.) I really wish they did. It would make my job thousands of times easier and less stressful.

In the case of governmental agencies, as I am sure you know, there are on-file purchase orders and pre-established lines of credit that permit replacement of failed equipment in pretty much a snap.

That's just the thing, the governmental/private-sector server setups from Dell are the same 4-hour support setups anyone can get by purchasing a Dell server. They're not exclusive to businesses and the government. That's part of the extra expense in buying one. Yes, you can get the actual hardware for a few hundred dollars cheaper elsewhere, but the issue becomes compatibility, reliability, and the ease of replacement. With a pre-built/full-ordered system from Dell, you get a unique Service Tag/Support ID combination that links the server to its specific hardware, software, warranty, and assigned support specialists, just like their desktops. Yes, it costs a little more, but the peace of mind is worth it, IMO. (Not on a desktop, those are worth it to build yourself. But on a server that has an uptime requirement? It's just about the only thing Dell is good for!)

While other companies, such as Gateway, IBM, and recently Hewlett Packard require a long credit history, and several other proofs of "fidelity,' Dell will sell their systems to just about anyone who can afford them, and give the same four-hour support, no matter what. If you're just a total money-wasting geek like me, and are putting together a blade-computing system in your basement, or a multi-million dollar conglomerate, you get the same four-hour support. Period. This is exactly why I'm researching a Dell blade-server system for my new house I'm getting in a few months. Four hour support for three years or more. Thin-client computing FTW.

I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. You can't compare FA to a corporate/government entity. There's a big difference in the amount of money that can be spent and whether it can be at the drop of a hat.
That's just it. When we implimented the active directory structure, we had a smaller budget than the average US household does for a new PC. We were a two-person IT team. Again - maybe I'm a little jaded towards being stringent because of what kind of hardship I had to endure to bring the Clerk's office out of the stone-age, and maybe I'm a little too harsh because I had to fight tight-wad politicians for a year to get the RAID arrays we're using to host the information, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a three-day implement-test-deploy stage for a couple of simple web/database servers. I understand the blight of shipping. Trust me, Gateway has pushed more buttons than I'd like about that. But I'm not even talking about shipping at this point. Shipping could take a month, for all I care. It's the length of time allocated for hardware/software installation, implementation and testing. That has nothing to do with the difference between the government and private sector and FA's situation.
 
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Pi

Member
Are you all infuckingcapable of reading? This thread has gone in the same circles since page 10.
 
While other companies, such as Gateway, IBM, and recently Hewlett Packard require a long credit history, and several other proofs of "fidelity,' Dell will sell their systems to just about anyone who can afford them, and give the same four-hour support, no matter what. If you're just a total money-wasting geek like me, and are putting together a blade-computing system in your basement, or a multi-million dollar conglomerate, you get the same four-hour support. Period. This is exactly why I'm researching a Dell blade-server system for my new house I'm getting in a few months. Four hour support for three years or more. Thin-client computing FTW.

That last part there really got me. Thin-client computing FTW indeed sir, FTW indeed. As far as my personal life is concerned, I keep it simple. No reason for anything like you're getting...yet. I may yet look into Dell for that four-hour support though, since it'd be nice to be able to demand to have my equipment back online without having to haggle.

As far as Dell selling their servers to any schmo that will shell out the cash for their product, I do believe you and I are in total agreement. I was glad to read 'Neer drop Dell for the server shopping, because that's just about the only thing Dell is good for anymore. Ever use a Vostro laptop? I have, and that thing went back to Dell so fast the box was still sealed. *laughs* However, I've heard that Dell makes a killer server box, and that they back it up in a stellar fashion, even with the basic support contract. I personally believe that for mission-critical software, a 4-hour contract is essential. FA, however, could likely get away with the 8-hour that Dell offers if you ask, and save a boatload of money. However, the downside to that, as you've mentioned, is a drop in the chances of getting free parts installed.

I'll leave it up to the folks in charge of getting FA back online.
 

Fate

New Member
I was right. It's ensure.

Oh, yeah. And Pi's right, by the way. Administrators and moderators: Requesting thread closure for circlejerking.
 
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icehawk

Member
That's the reason I pointed out the fact that Dell is a viable option. Four-hour support doesn't require a government-bid contract. It doesn't require a long history of any sort. It just requires a bit of cash, and a bit of time speaking with a sales associate on the phone to assure you're getting what you want.

You just answered your own question. At work a hardware problem like this would last approximately half an hour, since, as soon as we noticed the machine having problems, it'd be taken out of production and the warm spare would be promoted. But I can only do that because we have the budget to say "ok, this is important, we need backup." A site that has donations as a large component of its income doesn't usually have that luxury.
 
You just answered your own question. At work a hardware problem like this would last approximately half an hour, since, as soon as we noticed the machine having problems, it'd be taken out of production and the warm spare would be promoted. But I can only do that because we have the budget to say "ok, this is important, we need backup." A site that has donations as a large component of its income doesn't usually have that luxury.

Nothing like a nice warm spare to keep the racks humming.
 
Uh, you've always had to pay for LimeWire Pro. That's why it's called LimeWire Pro.

I think what the OP meant was that the basic one would go away, and you'd be forced to pay for the pro version if you wanted to use it.
 

Escafanatic421

New Member
I just want to send my thanks to people who have all contributed to the donations to bring this site back to life. I did have a thought, though, and if this has already been brought up before I apologize.

The goal for getting a new server was 4k, and it sounds like we've cleared that by more then double. I recall a certain website that called for donations to purchase a new server and when they had substantially cleared all goals they made a donation to charity with the excess amount of dollars.

FA is a community, and a powerful one, what sort of statement could it make by giving a large, charitable donation say to a Wildlife Conservation fund or something similar? Or even just making a call to give support to a charity?

Just something I thought about after seeing all the support that's come through.
 

nrr

Member
I've been on SPARCs using BOTH FreeBSD and Solaris, as a user.
Yer, as have I, with the addition of Debian GNU/Linux.

A lot of things didn't work to my satisfaction on anything but Solaris on sun4m/sun4u equipment though, but that might just be me. I'm used to commercial UNIXes, and when something like my NIC or framebuffer isn't supported like it should be, I see support there as a net loss and go back to something that does support my hardware.

Like I said, in a production environment, you're dumb not to use Solaris on SPARC hardware.
 

falderal

Member
That's too bad you guys are down. From what I have skimmed around so far, there's some varied views here. Every view is good for those who presented it in a sane manner.
In all seriousity, you guys should become ITIL certified in the foundations level (as I am v3). Just a suggestion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL
Then no one could complain because ITIL is tried and true techniques.

A little off topic, but anyways, more on topic here, I was talking with one of our system engineers where I work at. I told him about generally taking $4000 dollars and asked him if that was a good thing to spend on a server. He said the average median general configured servers with general server hardware we have cost us about $5000 a piece and that's just for one of the many many ones we have. I think you should ask another thousand from folks, and if you do, I'll plunk some money of my own down to help.

I am assuming Furaffinty's are rack mounted systems. So, the way I was reading it the servers are in an outsourced commercial building that does nothing but regular server hosting? That's probably costing about several hundred dollars a month for that. I would be surprised if it is in the thousands.

Back track, the bandwidth cost for networking to and from furaffinitys site to online is probably included in the hosting facility or do you pay seperate? Either way, if you didn't there's probably several hundred dollars. It ain't like paying the fifty dollars a month for cable modem service.

So, what I'm trying to say is: Thanks for keeping it free and I'm quite sympathetic to what you folks go through daily.
 

CrystalMendrilia

The Mad May Hare
Okay guys, don't start suggesting money making plans for the site. This thread isn't for that. ^_^ IF you really want to discuss it that badly, just read the previous pages as it has been discussed multiple times. ^_^

Are you all infuckingcapable of reading? This thread has gone in the same circles since page 10.

Woah, it's silly to 'expect' people who just join the site as they obviously just did (since they have 2 or 3 posts so far) would or should read over 100 pages in this thread. No need to be rude about it, just politely let them know not to do the circle 'again'.

I'm tired of that same circle too, but seriously... cool off. ^_^
 

Anepo

Anepo the last furryof iceland
OH DEAR GOD! i just had a revelation! Make the membership have a SEARCH engine ^^ But not the normal accounts. That means EVERYONE will want a membership lol ^^ 4TW.
 

Anepo

Anepo the last furryof iceland
Okay guys, don't start suggesting money making plans for the site. This thread isn't for that. ^_^ IF you really want to discuss it that badly, just read the previous pages as it has been discussed multiple times. ^_^



Woah, it's silly to 'expect' people who just join the site as they obviously just did (since they have 2 or 3 posts so far) would or should read over 100 pages in this thread. No need to be rude about it, just politely let them know not to do the circle 'again'.

I'm tired of that same circle too, but seriously... cool off. ^_^


Btw of course we are running in circles! It's so damn hard to get that tail that keeps chasing us!
 
Where to discuss about how to use the money? Okay don't hate me, but I will throw my two cents right here.

My suggestion is: even if using the buncha spare money for charity would be very sexy, I'd keep the money in case something goes bullshitty once again. Maybe a little part of it could be donated, but really, keep some good bucks in case something goes wrong again. Because I know that: if you have money to fix any future problem, nothing will happen. If you don't have them, get ready to have a good load of sh*t thrown on your hardware by fate... ^^'
 

kaeota

Child of the wolf
Where to discuss about how to use the money? Okay don't hate me, but I will throw my two cents right here.

My suggestion is: even if using the buncha spare money for charity would be very sexy, I'd keep the money in case something goes bullshitty once again. Maybe a little part of it could be donated, but really, keep some good bucks in case something goes wrong again. Because I know that: if you have money to fix any future problem, nothing will happen. If you don't have them, get ready to have a good load of sh*t thrown on your hardware by fate... ^^'

I read somewhere back (about page 40 i think) that the more that's donated the more that gets upgraded. FA is a lot more than just one server after all.
 

Sekhmet

New Member
Where to discuss about how to use the money? Okay don't hate me, but I will throw my two cents right here.

My suggestion is: even if using the buncha spare money for charity would be very sexy, I'd keep the money in case something goes bullshitty once again. Maybe a little part of it could be donated, but really, keep some good bucks in case something goes wrong again. Because I know that: if you have money to fix any future problem, nothing will happen. If you don't have them, get ready to have a good load of sh*t thrown on your hardware by fate... ^^'


I don`t think thats a bad idea. Whereas donating is wonderful, they should keep the extra in reserve for the site itself. As you said, incase something goes wrong again. Its a lot safer.
 

Anbessa

Member
hm, some interestign thoughts. but...

If the site is taking such a horrendous pounding that it shreds hardware, You have two alternatives:
One: Pay per view. Do you know where FA would be if everyone who used the site kicked in just *One US Dollar*? No more than that now. Just a buck. A sum a poor broke furry can scare up in their couch.
That's how you get real servers, Real coders, and all the rest.
Money. Bite the bullet, and say the word. It's no shame.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, sir, but that wouldn't work. see, the majority of people on the 'net take every service for free, and start to whine if even a couple cents are charged.
meanwhile there are people worth knowing with not a single dollar to their dime, if at all. no job (for whatever reason), no bank account. no bank account, no credit card or any other means of transferring money with a single click.
and, honestly, do you think FA would be so full with audience, artists, writers, whatever, if you'd have to pay a dollar to see something you
a) can have somewhere else for free (VCL anyone?)
b) isn't probably to your liking, which you would not see until you paid, and clicked the miniature to full size?

what works with TV, doesn't necessarily work with art. a movie that isn't exactly to your liking can still make your evening, somehow. a piece of art that left you disappointed, well... leaves you disappointed.
I know where FA would be now if you had charged a dollar per view from the beginning: nowhere.

Alternative the second: Throttling and a credit system that limits access for those who won't contribute

allow me to assurel you that a healthy, honest, entertaining and helpful comment is as much contributed as the artwork it's aimed at. so, how would you determine who contributes and who doesn't? would you try and set up a scale, saying, "As long as you don't meet this point in terms of contributions, sorry, no full acess to this site. thanks for playing." let me assure you, almost NOBODY would stand up to something that arbitrary. maybe not even you...
and why, WHY, WHY is everyone so keen on limiting acess to those who don't have the means to pay for services? I just can't seem to wrap my sorry head around it.

(Please note that doing code, re-design of web pages and general server voodoo can count just as much as any picture or story contribution. Result: Fewer users on at peak hours, and off peak hours where everyone on the Net gang bangs the server (Or the wad of proverbial and technological duct tape that passes for a server) reduced to periods where the traffic doesn't let the factory smoke out of your hardware.

peak hours, aha. which probably means the majority of US located users, since not many are online here again when we european furries log in... as much as I like that idea, it would be highly unfair to US inhabitants. is it their fault everybody else wants to come in and find out?
yes, coding and such requires as much art as it does to create something with, say we, a pencil and a piece of paper. but, how do you weight each, since everybody has another scale as for the work that flows into the results?


I don't give a tinker's damn for anyone's politics, social clicks, convention passions, or anything else. Furries can pull conventions out of their backsides when it suits them, but Furries can't seem to find the unity of purpose to help out a major "Furry" web site?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it, not even if you gave it to me for free.

Personally, I won't feel any great sense of loss if FA were to cease to be. But some will. and it will be yet another case of our critics being able to say (with utter justification) that we can't even take care of something that's only good for us somehow, unless it is a(nother) Convention.

Are we not more than the sum of our parts?

Now would be a real good time to show that we are.

It's not my expectation that we will, mind, but wouldn't it be fun, fun, fun to keep rubbing FA like salt into the wounds of the prudes who think that Furry=Failure?

Roci

you know, I was thinking the same more often than not. but: we all are individuals, maybe more so than the average group of trekkies, for example. as individuals it sometimes feel bothersome to pull the same string among others you barely know.
believe me, I have helped at a lot of furry cons in the past, and it's always, inevitably almost, the very same group of helpers you only need to look at with a plea for help in your eyes. everyone else is a consumer at best.
and, even though they would be capable to help, they never will. it's not their job... there are enough to help out.

another reason might be, that if you have worked at coding something so big, you probably won't be too keen to let someone at it you not even know by real name...
 

Tails Clock

I need more furry friends
Well I've been reading for a while and am constantly hearing:
"Remove features from the non-payers so that you can make more people pay" Which would make many leave, including me.
"Don't do anything at all, we raised so much money just by donating" But then we'd end up in this situation again some time later, unable to view the site and waiting until our money is sent, and then the new stuff is bought.
"Give extra features to monthly payers" This does not effect any free-users in the slightest and brings in income for FA as well as helps the artist that is paying. Everyone wins.
I'm sure the admins already see this, but I am surprised how many people don't... Even though I've yet to read the latest posts as there are just too many for me. I know that when I leave college and get a job I'd be more than happy to pay for extra features regardless of how useful they'd be to me.
 
i wonder if anybody noticed waaay back there that 'ensue' is only one letter off from 'ensure' and it may have just been a typo...;P
 

Redregon

Banned
Banned
you know, i don't know if it was suggested before, but here's a thought for paid subscribers (a perk)

creation of Groups/clubs.

i.e. creating a group or club for, say, 3D fans, for fox/husky/giraffe/amorphous blob fans?

and also, not something for paid members only, but how many people here have an iPhone/iPod touch and surf FA on that? what about an iPhone redirect and layout meant to take full advantage of the way that it works?

Also, in response to the idea of throttling the signal for non-paid users... now only is that a shady idea imo, but it also is very much against network neutrality... corporations may be doing it, but that doesn't make it right (hell, there's a class action against bell/Sympatico from users of Videotron and other DSL companies routing their signal through sympatico lines based on the fact that they (bell) knowingly throttled the signal from their third party users in bad faith... give it time and if it actually has a ruling set, there will be prescident set for other companies and users to charge companies (at least in canada) for throttling signals.)
Sauce: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2979/125/
 
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Anbessa

Member
oh, it was a typo, granted. but still the two words have vastly different meanings.
even as a not-native speaker I know the difference...

I think the easiest thing to raise steady money would be a membership, either montly, quartely, or anuual. or each as option, which would suit me better, personally.

but, let's see how much this situation leaves of the donated money before we divide it.
 

uncia

Member
taliesin_dragoon said:
Maybe a little part of it could be donated, but really, keep some good bucks in case something goes wrong again. Because I know that: if you have money to fix any future problem, nothing will happen.
I don`t think thats a bad idea. Whereas donating is wonderful, they should keep the extra in reserve for the site itself. As you said, incase something goes wrong again. Its a lot safer.
"Reserve" is good in theory but at present, no-one knows what there might be $-wise in reserve, because no-one knows what is required $-wise for the new setup... and it certainly ain't $4k, thanks to the generosity of many. :)
Increasing the baseline specification as far as possible is generally the sensible option as, in the event of most failures, that would hopefully have either enough wriggle space to keep online (if a memory stick fails) or be /relatively/ inexpensive to resolve (if a hard drive fails) compared with the overall setup cost.
Saving too much in reserve means the entire setup or large part thereof would have to be upgraded again, sooner rather than later. i.e. the donation drive is most certainly not finished, as far as I can see. (sorry! ^^)

Cheers,
David.
 
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