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Something in the water?

Volkodav

Dad****er
I once knew a guy who was spoken to directly by god. God told him to burn down his house, his field, my uncles barn, garage and side of his house, and then told him to drag couch cushions into the field and lay on them

But I digress
 

Ad Hoc

Some old guy
Just the desire to have some explanation, regardless of rationality or lack thereof. I do believe it's a natural occurrence in all multi-sexed life forms, not just humans, but it'd be cool if science could tell us in more detail why or why not.
Oh, I understand. Well, science has provided us with a number of theories. I linked it before, but here again is a lovely article on the subject, citing about a dozen influential studies and theories on possible biological, environmental, and social causes. We may never arrive at a definitive answer, however, at least not ethically. Because we can't ethically or legally experiment on groups of fetuses/kids/etc., to see what exactly causes them them to be gay, all we can do is look for patterns in existing gay individuals. That can only give us correlation, not causation. We can infer some very solid hypotheses from those correlations, but without being able to test it in humans, we're rather hindered in trying to prove or disprove those hypotheses. (Not that I advocate testing it on humans. I may be gay, but I'm okay with some uncertainty on the subject.)
 

Oovie

Fabulous Secret Powers
I was stuck with filtered well water when I really even suspected anything, maybe it's in the milk?
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
I was stuck with filtered well water when I really even suspected anything, maybe it's in the milk?

I blame cows too. :p

Tho if you mean a mothers milk, than you have an interesting theory! Tho it would also mean that you become gay because of your mother. And that it would be cureable/avoidable.

Or maybe im just thinking too hard again...
 

Spatel

Well-Known Member
It's not genetic in anything other than a very general sense. You may have genes that influence you in a certain direction, but the same exact genes could cause someone else to swing totally the opposite way if their environment is different. We're all born with different 'on/off' switches that the environment flips.

The uterine environment can only contribute so much as well. Monozygotic Identical twins with the same exact DNA and the same exact amniotic environment can still develop completely different sexualities later in life, so we know that some of it has to be socially/culturally constructed.

There's also no rule that someone has to pursue their ideal gender. I'm sure a large number of people choose not to, and choose not to identify or draw attention to themselves as such.
 
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Ad Hoc

Some old guy
It's not genetic in anything other than a very general sense. You may have genes that influence you in a certain direction, but the same exact genes could cause someone else to swing totally the opposite way if their environment is different. We're all born with different 'on/off' switches that the environment flips.

The uterine environment can only contribute so much as well. Monozygotic Identical twins with the same exact DNA and the same exact amniotic environment can still develop completely different sexualities later in life, so we know that some of it has to be socially/culturally constructed.
[FONT=&quot]"J. Michael Bailey and Richard Pillard also studied the gayness between MZ (monoxygotic, identical) twins, DZ (dizigotic, fraternal) twins, and non-related adopted brothers. They examined how many of the sample population examined were gay and how many were straight. They found that 52% of MZ twins were both self-identified homosexuals, 22% of DZ twins were so, and only 5% of non-related adopted brothers were so. This evidence, repeated and found to be true a second time, showed to the biological camp that the more closely genetically linked a pair is, the more likely they both are to exhibit gay or straight tendencies. Later experimenters found similar evidence in females. One such scientist is Dean Hamer. Hamer examined the possibility of homosexuality being an X-linked trait. He examined the family trees of openly gay men, and thought he saw a maternal link, leading him to investigate his theory of X-linkage. He took 40 DNA samples from homosexual men, and genetically examined them. He found that there was a 'remarkable concordance' for 5 genetic markers on section of the X-Chromosome called Xq28." Source.[/FONT]

Clearly even if it's not all genetic, it does have a strong genetic component. Furthermore, identical twins aren't actually genetically identical, which may account for some of the discrepancies. There's also the issue of brain structure differences - homosexual men have some distinct neuroanatomical differences from heterosexual men. Identical twins are often born with minor differences in height, weight, facial shapes, etc.; if there can be external differences like that, there can be internal ones.
 

Spatel

Well-Known Member
Also a monozygotic environment can still have micro-environments where one twin in utero is exposed to slightly more androgens and other hormones compared to the other. Identical twins are never totally the same when they come out for that reason.
 

Oovie

Fabulous Secret Powers
I blame cows too. :p

Tho if you mean a mothers milk, than you have an interesting theory! Tho it would also mean that you become gay because of your mother. And that it would be cureable/avoidable.

Or maybe im just thinking too hard again...
Well, I'm cringing at the thought of having to eat boobs. So maybe.
 

Recel

Mamma Yeena
I think you kind of missed what I meant Oovie... reeaaly missed it...

What did you eat first when you were born? Probably not beef.
The human body has its own bio chemistry. It produces most of it, but it also recives it from outside, by food.
And chemicals can affect how your brain works.

Put these together and you will get it.
 
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Unsilenced

Mentlegen
It's a gubbermunt cunspirucy.

Dey be puttin' floride in ur watur, makun us gay.

:v
 

Oovie

Fabulous Secret Powers
I think you kind of missed what I meant Oovie... reeaaly missed it...

What did you eat first when you were born? Probably not beef.
The human body has its own bio chemistry. It produces most of it, but it also recives it from outside, by food.
And chemicals can affect how your brain works.

Put these together and you will get it.
I first ate boobs, didn't everyone?
 
More people are coming out because it's a bit more acceptable. When I was growing up I would have been shot within an hour if I came out. Now you can at least hang out with other queers to have some sort of safety.
 

Commiecomrade

Maximum Awesome.
I say it's just a genetic, mental thing. Maybe more people come out because they see others doing the same.
 

EdieFantabulous

Admurrable Admurral
Theories and studies show that brain structure can be a correlated factor.
Certain parts are smaller, or larger depending on your orientation.
That in combination with the Hormones in pregnancy seem the most viable.
Since who your are raised by and location do not seem to have a significant effect.
You still get gays in Israel. Where you know, you die for it.
 

Grendel

A modern monster
Birth control pills are flushed and female hormones in the water. This is it I am thinking.
 

Spatel

Well-Known Member
I have evidence that it's genetic in my family. I happen to know a certain other member that has the same thing I have. It would not be a well-researched gene if that's what it is, because it leads to bisexuality in men, and nobody researches that shit.

It could have an effect on women. One of my aunts is asexual (supposedly, could be a lesbian in the closet). My mother is very homophobic, which may or may not mean something. I'm definitely going to talk about this more with my sister... figure out what's going on in her mind.

Could be interesting.
 
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CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
I have evidence that it's genetic in my family. I happen to know a certain other member that has the same thing I have. It would not be a well-researched gene if that's what it is, because it leads to bisexuality in men, and nobody researches that shit.

It could have an effect on women. One of my aunts is asexual (supposedly, could be a lesbian in the closet). My mother is very homophobic, which may or may not mean something. I'm definitely going to talk about this more with my sister... figure out what's going on in her mind.

Could be interesting.
My guess it is a mix of genetic and environmental, but the majority of people find narnia before wanting to come out or the gene is not expressed or there are factors that can lead to it being expressed.

Also homophobia is a sign of suppressed homo-erotic tension.
 

EdieFantabulous

Admurrable Admurral
I have evidence that it's genetic in my family. I happen to know a certain other member that has the same thing I have. It would not be a well-researched gene if that's what it is, because it leads to bisexuality in men, and nobody researches that shit.

It could have an effect on women. One of my aunts is asexual (supposedly, could be a lesbian in the closet). My mother is very homophobic, which may or may not mean something. I'm definitely going to talk about this more with my sister... figure out what's going on in her mind.

Could be interesting.

Some of it is hereditary, or is correlated. However remember, Correlation DOES NOT equal causation.
Of course there are Genes that lead to it, but they would be so far out.
That also would break a lot off the evolutionary theory.
 

Azure

100% organic vegan hubbas
If I could make cannabis water soluble, I'd insert mass amounts of it into the public water supply. Somebody help me science.
 

CrispSkittlez

Unprincipaly principled.
I don't think I'll throw out my opinion on why people are gay, but I will say this.....

Why is there so much effort placed on trying to find out why/how people become gay? Isn't there much better things that the time and money used for this can go towards? I dunno, something like education, so not every god damn moron who believes in stereotypes freaks out at the slightest hint of a homosexual in their midst.

Like shit, I have to admit gays don't make bad friends at all, and it's especially funny when they use derogatory insults at straight people.

.....why am I rambling?
 

JoshGoesRawr

New Member
I was raised in quite a homophobic environment and I am not aware of any gays or bisexuals in my family apart from from my aunt in law. I was also the first child to be born.
So it can't have been the environment, genes or birth order that effected me.
 

EdieFantabulous

Admurrable Admurral
I was raised in quite a homophobic environment and I am not aware of any gays or bisexuals in my family apart from from my aunt in law. I was also the first child to be born.
So it can't have been the environment, genes or birth order that effected me.

YEAH! People that don't fit in! Go us!
I am the first and only gay person in our family. ^^;
I RUINED EVERYTHING!
 

Ad Hoc

Some old guy
I don't think I'll throw out my opinion on why people are gay, but I will say this.....

Why is there so much effort placed on trying to find out why/how people become gay? Isn't there much better things that the time and money used for this can go towards? I dunno, something like education, so not every god damn moron who believes in stereotypes freaks out at the slightest hint of a homosexual in their midst.

Like shit, I have to admit gays don't make bad friends at all, and it's especially funny when they use derogatory insults at straight people.

.....why am I rambling?
The initial push was mostly to prove that it is in fact a natural phenomenon, intrinsic and incurable; so that the homophobic establishment won't have as much justification to outlaw it and chemically castrate us (or worse) when we break that law, and so the laypeople slowly come to accept it better. You prove it inarguably, and they won't have a leg to stand on, unless they go down the rather unpopular route of eugenic cleansing. Proving that it's inborn and irreversible also helps us when we challenge things like DOMA. It hasn't been proven inarguably yet, though, so studies are ongoing.

That's the idea, anyway. I kind of agree that the money might be better spent on education, etc., because some people will never change their mind no matter how much evidence you give them. There's a roadblock there, though. If you try to disseminate pro-gay material in a school environment, you'll invariably get that one parent who freaks out about it because of the "homosexual agenda." If you've proven it's a natural thing, then it can find more of a place in the schools.

I'm not really even sure how much money is spent on the studies, though. It seems like it's just a few studies a year, mostly just surveys and autopsies. The biopsies and genome studies are surely pricier, but there haven't been many of those.
 
I don't think I'll throw out my opinion on why people are gay, but I will say this.....

aww... that's no fun :c

Why is there so much effort placed on trying to find out why/how people become gay? Isn't there much better things that the time and money used for this can go towards? I dunno, something like education, so not every god damn moron who believes in stereotypes freaks out at the slightest hint of a homosexual in their midst.
Why is there a need to find anything?
I'm not sure if you can justify it with time/money being an issue, given I can think of 2 studies. It's hardly like everyone has given up researching cancer and heart disease to find out what causes homosexuality.
 
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