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[split] Barack Obama

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nobuyuki

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I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with the APA. It only takes one good example to make them wrong about the "choice" thing. As hana said, some people experiment.

And I'd like to amend that with my personal experience knowing people who have given me this bullshit about being gay all along when they just had a really bad experience with the opposite sex and are totally screwed up as a result. I guess the APA doesn't consider this a true instance of "homosexuality" but it's you people who lump those kinds of individuals in with those of minority sexual orientations; for right or wrong this essentially makes the argument that to some people -- that homosexuality is indeed a choice -- the de facto standard. To argue otherwise by siding with the APA's definition will have quite a number of soon-to-be unhappy people told that they aren't really homosexual at all, because they didn't actually feel that way all their life...


edit: xenox mentioned something offhand on IRC that reminded me of philosophy 101.... If homosexuality can't be a choice then what the fxck happened to our free will? That's very patronizing to think
 

Surgat

Where is your mod now?
RE: Barack Obama

nobuyuki said:
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with the APA. It only takes one good example to make them wrong about the "choice" thing. As hana said, some people experiment.

And I'd like to amend that with my personal experience knowing people who have given me this bullshit about being gay all along when they just had a really bad experience with the opposite sex and are totally screwed up as a result. I guess the APA doesn't consider this a true instance of "homosexuality" but it's you people who lump those kinds of individuals in with those of minority sexual orientations; for right or wrong this essentially makes the argument that to some people -- that homosexuality is indeed a choice -- the de facto standard. To argue otherwise by siding with the APA's definition will have quite a number of soon-to-be unhappy people told that they aren't really homosexual at all, because they didn't actually feel that way all their life...

They might not like it, but they probably weren't completely homosexual. There's a lot in-between gay and straight, and most people aren't exclusively one or the other. We can expect that people would experiment, even while later identifying as exclusively gay or straight. Nothing you've said really contradicts the idea that gender orientation is not chosen.
http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/research/ak-hhscale.html
http://www.biresource.org/pamphlets/scales.html

nobuyuki said:
edit: xenox mentioned something offhand on IRC that reminded me of philosophy 101.... If homosexuality can't be a choice then what the fxck happened to our free will? That's very patronizing to think

Gender orientation has nothing to do with free will; having a limited number of unchosen features isn't an issue in the free-will/determinism debate, and is compatible with all positions.

If there is such a thing as free will, and gender orientation is not a choice, you still have free will to act or not act on your desires.
 
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