Main Site Sugestion: YCH Filter (please?)

[RCTFORME]

Long story short, I want to be able to filter YCH posts on and off.
- I want to have the option to hide YCH posts when browsing the main page and/or artist galleries.
- I want the option to nuke YCH posts in my submission watch list.

I'm so tired of seeing YCH posts fill up the site. They're becoming so common that at times they can make up 50% or more of submissions on a single page. I understand -why- they're popular (they allow commissioners to get a sense of what the finished image will look like before handing out money), but I am tired of seeing such a huge volume of them every day. I only want to see finished works, so because of that, I am suggesting (and, in fact, begging for) the option to hide them from my feed.

 

[ConorHyena]

This would actually be really awsome if it were implemented the other way around too, so I could browse active YCHs in case I were looking for one.

 

[luffy]

This is already on our radar. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Stratelier]

Agreed. There's a line to draw here -- the finished result of a YCH is no different from any other commissioned work, but it's the use of the submission system to advertise the YCH itself that I don't want to be notified of.

 

[lardo]

My main beef with ych posts is the frequency of YCH "reminders".
I often see the same reminders every day, sometimes multiple times a day and even had seen artists make new accounts dedicated to just posting reminders. It really throttles any exposure an artost might get when they are pushed off the from page twice as fast when they are drowned in "ych" posts.
It would be nice if there was a limited amount of "reminders" one might be allowed to post each day as it's borderline spam to repost the exact same thing so frequently just to have it hit the front page and be deleted within a few hours

 

[quoting_mungo]

It would be nice if there was a limited amount of "reminders" one might be allowed to post each day as it's borderline spam to repost the exact same thing so frequently just to have it hit the front page and be deleted within a few hours

There used to be more rules regulating this. Problem was that since FA doesn't do soft-deletes of submissions, it only hurt the people respecting the rules - the people who didn't would just remove their older reminder and post a newer one, leaving no evidence that they'd broken the rules, so in practice it was largely unenforceable.

I 100% agree that there should be limits, and that YCH reminders are a freaking scourge, but... it's what we have and I'm not sure the beast can be put back in its box without significant feature changes in the site's backend.

 

[Mailoh]

Long story short, I want to be able to filter YCH posts on and off.
- I want to have the option to hide YCH posts when browsing the main page and/or artist galleries.
- I want the option to nuke YCH posts in my submission watch list.

I'm so tired of seeing YCH posts fill up the site. They're becoming so common that at times they can make up 50% or more of submissions on a single page. I understand -why- they're popular (they allow commissioners to get a sense of what the finished image will look like before handing out money), but I am tired of seeing such a huge volume of them every day. I only want to see finished works, so because of that, I am suggesting (and, in fact, begging for) the option to hide them from my feed.

It's not officially supported, and requires trusting a third-party script, but you can use JasonHusky's FA-SubFilter userscript with Tampermonkey or Greasemonkey browser extensions.

Source code: github.com: jaysonhusky/FA-SubFilter

A simple userscript addition to allow the user to enable/disable the viewing of YCH and/or Stream submission notifications

 

[methodia_rascal]

So this has been "on the radar" for almost 3 months, and the problem is getting worse. Go on the site at the weekend, and it's 70% ych spam. Go to your submission notifications, and it's mostly ych spam. Come at the weekends, and it's even worse. People don't follow rules about not spamming and repeat reminders every 15 minutes. This is meant to be an art site. Why is there not a separate buying/selling area to keep all this crap out of the way of people who are actually trying to post art?

More to the point, how are these "unlimited YCH" things not against the rules? You get an artist dumping this weeks unlimited stuff, and you have nothing but slightly colour-shifted penises drowning everyone else out.

Get the selling stuff into it's own section on the frontpage, below the latest submissions. Change the rules so it all has to go into there. Maybe even break it down into various selling categories like Unlimited, YCH, commissions, etc to give it some form of functionality. Split Submission notifications the same so people can ignore them if they want. Anything that is not a unique artwork goes into scraps, so you get rid of the unlimited spam. And maybe actually moderate it to get rid of the people who constantly spam their reminders over and over. That shit is already in the rules, but there's frequently the same 'artists' on the front page with the same reminder.

I don't like this kind of stuff shitting up the site, but I also understand that artists want to sell, people want to buy. So get them split off so people can see the things they want to.

 

[Infrarednexus]

I rarely visit site discussion threads, but I really am getting tired of consistent YCH reminder spamming on FA. I like the idea of a filter being put in place.

 

[Mailoh]

So this has been "on the radar" for almost 3 months, and the problem is getting worse. Go on the site at the weekend, and it's 70% ych spam. Go to your submission notifications, and it's mostly ych spam. Come at the weekends, and it's even worse. People don't follow rules about not spamming and repeat reminders every 15 minutes. This is meant to be an art site. Why is there not a separate buying/selling area to keep all this crap out of the way of people who are actually trying to post art?

More to the point, how are these "unlimited YCH" things not against the rules? You get an artist dumping this weeks unlimited stuff, and you have nothing but slightly colour-shifted penises drowning everyone else out.

Get the selling stuff into it's own section on the frontpage, below the latest submissions. Change the rules so it all has to go into there. Maybe even break it down into various selling categories like Unlimited, YCH, commissions, etc to give it some form of functionality. Split Submission notifications the same so people can ignore them if they want. Anything that is not a unique artwork goes into scraps, so you get rid of the unlimited spam. And maybe actually moderate it to get rid of the people who constantly spam their reminders over and over. That shit is already in the rules, but there's frequently the same 'artists' on the front page with the same reminder.

I don't like this kind of stuff shitting up the site, but I also understand that artists want to sell, people want to buy. So get them split off so people can see the things they want to.

Don't get me wrong, the spammers are annoying as hell. As for inbox ych spam. voice it to the artist and tell them you're unfollowing because they spam it out too often.

I have a few people who've i've unfollowed because they post the same YCH post reminder once per day over the course of two weeks, and nobody cares to bite on them

 

[Seiden]

I love YCHs, but I have to agree that I really hate the "reminder" spam. Especially when people post image reminder AND journal reminders? I unfollowed lots of artists due to this abusive spamming. That's annoying as hell.


Another filter that might be interesting for YCH (and adoptables) would be a open/sold toggle. But I feel like people would abuse this one as well and leave it as "open" even though it's sold.

 

[nyshox]

I support the YCH filter as well because it would actually make the homepage more meaningful. I want the homepage to represent the best of FA and that is artistic content. The selling and stuff can go somewhere else.

 

[iPoke]

Having a dedicated buy/sell section of FA would actually be a real benefit, both for followers and artists.

Like most folks here, I'm immensely tired of having constant YCH posts, and especially the reminders, interspaced with an almost 10:1 ratio of actual finished artwork.

Aside from alleviating this circumstance, it would also provide a framework for business artists to advertise in properly, and know that those advertisements reach people actually interested in buying, instead of just spamming out to folks who just want to enjoy their finished artwork. In an ideal world posts in this separate section could have a timer function (how long the bidding will be active), and maybe an "interested" subscriber button that functions like a temporary watch function for only this submission, for automatic reminders in (insert time interval here). People not interested in buying themselves could then be able to deactivate viewing this section of submissions from their control panel.

If creating a separate category for business related artwork posts by artists is not feasible though, FA really needs to change it's policy on promotion/reminder artwork, because the situation is getting badly out of hand.

 

[methodia_rascal]

Let's put it into perspective.

The sheer amount of selling posts means that it's next to impossible for new or smaller artists to get visibility on their work. You've got instances where they work on something for days, upload it, and it's gone from the frontpage in seconds because Artist#3923 has just dumped their 5 YCH reminders for the 4th time this hour. Smaller artists are pretty much guaranteed to be shafted now. If you're not buried under YCH reminders, you're buried on Picarto because you're not a paid member so it's next to impossible to locate your stream. Or on other websites you get hidden because the default tab is "Most Popular". When there are multiple accounts that do absolutely nothing but repost reminders, you have a huge fucking problem.

And if people think the current situation is bad, I can easily see it getting far worse over the next few months. A lot of people are being made unemployed due to Covid19, which means a lot more people trying to sell a lot more work.

While on the subject of YCH stuff, how are Base resellers allowed? There's an increasing number of accounts that contain nothing but a pre-bought base from one of a few artists, recoloured thousands of times. I know art tends to be subjective, but when someone who hasn't even drawn the original is shitting out dozens of these things a day, there's a high chance it's not a form of art.

 

[ConorHyena]

Let's put it into perspective.

The sheer amount of selling posts means that it's next to impossible for new or smaller artists to get visibility on their work. You've got instances where they work on something for days, upload it, and it's gone from the frontpage in seconds because Artist#3923 has just dumped their 5 YCH reminders for the 4th time this hour. Smaller artists are pretty much guaranteed to be shafted now. If you're not buried under YCH reminders, you're buried on Picarto because you're not a paid member so it's next to impossible to locate your stream. Or on other websites you get hidden because the default tab is "Most Popular". When there are multiple accounts that do absolutely nothing but repost reminders, you have a huge fucking problem.

And if people think the current situation is bad, I can easily see it getting far worse over the next few months. A lot of people are being made unemployed due to Covid19, which means a lot more people trying to sell a lot more work.

While on the subject of YCH stuff, how are Base resellers allowed? There's an increasing number of accounts that contain nothing but a pre-bought base from one of a few artists, recoloured thousands of times. I know art tends to be subjective, but when someone who hasn't even drawn the original is shitting out dozens of these things a day, there's a high chance it's not a form of art.

I think the first point is relatively moot - things get buried extremely quickly with or without the YCHs on the front page - I don't know about picarto, but in a system that's merely organised around a timeline (e.g. newest post first) the most effective advertisment method is to re-post the content to make it stay "fresh" in the timeline. Personally, I prefer this - I'd rather have this than some weird "algorithm" which decides "what's good for you" like twitter, etc do it because it's a system that's even more unfair. The timeline is impartial.

I'm personally expecting there to be a price drop in art in the next few months simply because the rules of supply and demand (more people trying to sell work vs less people having money to buy luxury goods like art) but I don't know if the furry art market is this transparent. A survey would be interesting.

I think the point isn't in defining what "is allowed" if someone's willing to pay for recolours, that's their good right and I don't think we're in the position to judge on this. A lot of people do shit art, and they're still allowed to sell - gatekeeping this by site administration is a poor choice indeed.

 

[Nyashia]

The staff announced a buy/sell section, which would separate all these YCH spampostings, YEARS ago. I've lost hope now. And I think the problem with external scripts is that they also hide finished YCHs.

 

[Stratelier]

I don't watch many artists, but I have de-watched a few specifically because advertisements were a majority of the notifications I received from them.

Heck, there's one artist on my watchlist right now that makes me glad I only check my notifications once every 1-2 days, because at least they take down the previous submission before reposting it. However, the same is not true of their journals, which makes me glad I actually read* my journal notifications at a rate of basically never.

* (I still dismiss them every 1-2 days, I just don't pay attention to them specifically.)

 

[methodia_rascal]

I think the first point is relatively moot - things get buried extremely quickly with or without the YCHs on the front page - I don't know about picarto, but in a system that's merely organised around a timeline (e.g. newest post first) the most effective advertisment method is to re-post the content to make it stay "fresh" in the timeline. Personally, I prefer this - I'd rather have this than some weird "algorithm" which decides "what's good for you" like twitter, etc do it because it's a system that's even more unfair. The timeline is impartial.

So what you're saying is that rather than having rules and curbs on things, you're perfectly fine with people spamming their shit every 5 minutes? That's exactly how you get the YCH hellhole you have now. People reposting over and over to advertise, blocking out anyone who dares to post something original. This is an art site. It's for artists to share their stuff. At this stage, barely anyone gets to see their work because it's instantly shat on by advertisements that have already been posted 20 times today.

I think the point isn't in defining what "is allowed" if someone's willing to pay for recolours, that's their good right and I don't think we're in the position to judge on this. A lot of people do shit art, and they're still allowed to sell - gatekeeping this by site administration is a poor choice indeed.

It's about getting rid of shit that should not be on the homepage. If an account is nothing but recolours of a pre-bought base, there is no reason it should be on the frontpage. It should be in a buy/sell section. If an account is there just to spam adverts, like these "unlimited" accounts, they need to fuck off to a buy/sell area. Legitimate posts are constantly lost under a tidalwave of recolours, YCH's and the like. Put all that shit out of the way so if people want to buy, they can and leave the main page for people submitting actual content.

 

[ConorHyena]

So what you're saying is that rather than having rules and curbs on things, you're perfectly fine with people spamming their shit every 5 minutes? That's exactly how you get the YCH hellhole you have now. People reposting over and over to advertise, blocking out anyone who dares to post something original. This is an art site. It's for artists to share their stuff. At this stage, barely anyone gets to see their work because it's instantly shat on by advertisements that have already been posted 20 times today.



It's about getting rid of shit that should not be on the homepage. If an account is nothing but recolours of a pre-bought base, there is no reason it should be on the frontpage. It should be in a buy/sell section. If an account is there just to spam adverts, like these "unlimited" accounts, they need to fuck off to a buy/sell area. Legitimate posts are constantly lost under a tidalwave of recolours, YCH's and the like. Put all that shit out of the way so if people want to buy, they can and leave the main page for people submitting actual content.

Personally, yes. I am fine with it - I see more original content on the front page than YCHs, and yes, while certain artists do overdo it - I tend to unwatch them, while, at the same time, informing them why I did so. However, I understand, because this is how advertisment works. Without personalized ads(which,in my opinion, are an even worse boghole with data collection, etc) you have to rely on someone seeing the product roughly ten times before they consider buying it. This is done by reposting this. I will not mind if there's a seperate section for it, as a buyer, I'd even prefer it, but this is not something that's keeping me up at night either way. I don't think it's blocking out people doing 'original' artwork either - the front page of FA is, by definiton, very quickly filled. You wouldn't get more than 1-2 minutes on there regardless.
Also - like I've said, I find this a bit too arbitrary - I can understand why the YCHs and commission leaflets and all that would go in a buy/sell area, in fact, like I've said, I would prefer it, but finished product (e.g. finished YCHs/recolours) are as original as most of the art that is uploaded, and are not more or less legitimate than other stuff, say, the crappy MS paint drawings a few people upload or the atrociously written smut stories that fly around - I personally don't believe that raising the bar to a certain notch in an attempt to define "legitimate art" or something like that has any merit.

 

[Raever]

I see more YCH spam in my own feed than in the homepage, and while I do think that having a YCH filter would be nice to reduce clutter - I don't see it as particularly necessary at this current time.

There are suggestions in the What Do You Want To See thread that recommend allowing people to tag things and organize things better already, so I'm sure the staff will eventually get around to it. It might take them ten years to include the ability to change your name on the site but hey, that's FA for you lol.

 

[UwUCarlaUwU]

I'd appreciate it if the forums had options to block nsfw stuff, like if someone adds in the tags, 18+, Kinky RP, Kink, Sex, NSFW, it would block it out.

 

[chemicalcrux]

Reminder spam is absolutely out of control. It takes up a significant chunk of space on the front page - sometimes making up a majority of the submissions.

Advertisements should go in a section for advertisements.

 

[Friesiansteed]

I could not agree more with the people above. The YCH and YCH-reminders are spiraling out like a Corona-virus (and I don't feel bad for using such comparison). I've postulated for a feature for FA centered about an actual filtering feature for things we do or don't want to see, just like a blacklist, but more robust and modern.

But since then I've noticed that while filtering out kinks and tags would be extremely helpful, there is a huge space for improvement towards some more controllable browsing.

(forgive me if I'm repeating stuff others told so far, but I'm writing this message under time pressure a.t.m.)
My general idea and the simplest solution to the out of hand YCH spam would be:
1. Code of conduit changes that would forbid and eventually penalize repeated abuse of "Submission" interface for advertising the same content over and over again within rational time interval.
2. Referring to the above: A rule stating that the journal system should be the means of advertising content and reminders - since that's what it's made for.
3. Forementioned filters to tick-out special categories, which should be available to be chosen at the time of submitting an artwork piece, consisting of:
- Finished Content: Understood as the final form of user's creation.
- W.I.P. Content: Understood as the name suggests - unfinished or partially complete content (to which sketches, doodles and most stuff that we can currently find in the "Scraps" folders of content creators)
- Advertisement Content: Standing for the YCH and eventual reminders that do not abuse the rule limiting the frequency of posting those.

That all said, I do believe in all honesty, that artists and content creators of all kinds are capable of understanding and respecing the basic principles of acting with restraint. Spreading the word about their art and finding new customer- and fan-base should happen thanks to their finished works bringing them attention, not the scandalously numerous amounts of YCH's that hardly give anyone the idea about their skill level, without checking the profile and examples anyway. For all other "regular" audiences, the watching feature and journal system should suffice completely.

 

[Stratelier]

Forementioned filters to tick-out special categories, which should be available to be chosen at the time of submitting an artwork piece, consisting of:

Replace "available" with "required" and I can support that. There's already the mandatory classification of gallery/scraps, but the problem is YCH reminders just are not "gallery" material. So perhaps expand the Gallery/Scrap option to include a third setting specifically for advertisement-oriented pieces (e.g. YCHs).

PS - a random spot lurk on the Browse page last night counted approximately 24 reminders/adverts ... a.k.a. FIFTY FUCKING PERCENT.

 

[onhaki]

Still a huge problem and nothing done about it as far as I can tell... Seriously becoming a bother how I can't view finished works easily on the site and have to filter through thousands of YCH at a time to get anywhere. Finding an artist I like just to find out they post 1 finished piece a month at 20+ YCH reminders a week. I don't care if I have to turn YCH's off with them default-on to not effect people's sales, but, gods, give us something to turn them off.